SIE President Jim Ryan's Q&A with Investors from Fidelity is now Live

[flaccidsnake]

This is just a ridiculous argument. Without those consoles, you wouldn't be here to post nonsese like that. That's what gaming grew on, dedicated hardware. Again, consoles are a base for developers, not PC. It's why you can see high end PCs struggle because of poor optimizations on certain games. Doesn't happen on consoles.

But by all means, let's shift to PC and triple development issues.

When SNES was current, I was playing CD-ROM games with full voice acting, 3d graphics, and online multiplayer. Quake on PC was a generation ahead of Quake 64. Longtime PC developers like Bioware and Bethesda had to scale down productions to work on consoles when Xbox first hit.

It's hilarious to say consoles are a base for developers when console games are literally developed on PCs.

 

[Bryank75]

Lmao what threats - definitely not the threats I know you're thinking about? This is all a "growth" pitch to make more money, and it's flawed long term.

Xbox as a threat has subsided, which is why Sony is comfortable directly supporting PC, inline with MS's decision to do so since they no longer compete on who has "true exclusives" and using that as a battering ram against each other while vying for consumer loyalty vis a vis each other. We are in the "lets collude to make more money phase"...

If the threat is the cloud from giants like Amazon or Google.... newsflash Stadia is dead and buried - with Google trying to settle for a Nintendo partnership. Luna is moribund as well. And guess what, the strongest defense against the cloud is a strong and differentiated, built for purpose video game console - it's the strongest defense against all threats - that be PC, which lost that battle ages ago but has been given free booter shots due to Microsoft's intervention in the console market and Sony's idiocy (starting with PS3 and forward). The other defense is having remote server farms of scale to provide service in comparable fashion to Amazon or Google or MS (good luck there). And btw, server farms are, ba dum tiss, hardware.

Facebook is competing with VR, trying to disrupt the premium games market through VR and steal the consumers through zero sum that way. That is where PlayStation VR comes in.

Growing beyond the hardware by releasing software as a third party publisher weakens PlayStations hardware software appeal and differentiation - that is not a threat repulsor but a net weakening. Obviously if PlayStation is viewed as ultimately being just a third party publisher, then losing the hardware battle is OK, as ultimately "PlayStation" will be a third party publisher and thus expanding now to lay the groundwork is future-proofing. Good luck to PlayStation being just another ABK/EA/Ubisoft.... its games will be played on someone's else's platform who take platform building seriously.

You see... I'm fine with a few games that make sense going to PC OR if they buy a publisher or big studio, keeping those games on PC (possibly with a delay for release).

I had no issue with Bungie continuing to be on PC and even Xbox.

But Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla etc should all be fully exclusive to PS forever.

They should have a clear division, a group that publishes everywhere and a console focused group. PSStudios should be the name for studios that ONLY publish on PS consoles. The others should be SIE Studios....

They could grow both and keep everybody happy..... but all I see is take take take from the console side with very little given back. Increased prices, less exclusives, worse showcases with far less effort, no fan engagement and no big improvements to customer services.

I find myself losing interest in the last months and I'm back at training, I find the desire to play games waning and the ecosystem less and less interesting / exciting , especially for the future.

I'm just a bit down on the whole thing.

 

[Yobo]

The unfortunate reality is that PlayStation needs live service success

Sony's model has been to uplift third parties succeeding in this area. But when your direct competitor has the capacity to go and spend $70 billion dollars to buy those third parties then you're left with little choice

There's a lot of risk here that Sony isn't diversified enough

I personally am not against it as long as the games remain good. Sony used to have a selection of multiplayer games that they don't make anymore so this should be more a return to old ways

However Jimbo sees the buzzwords without seeing the big picture. MS is doing all this to get and keep people in their ecosystems. If the future of gaming ends up less about consoles then where is the PS Storefront on PC? MS right now are building a content moat for subscribers. Sony has no vision in this, and as a platform holder it's what they need to have. Yeah they have double the subs but I would argue that the winds could change there at any moment. There's no reason to be on PSN if everything is on PC for cheaper

Xbox gets this, that's why games are on Gamepass

 

[anonpuffs]

You see... I'm fine with a few games that make sense going to PC OR if they buy a publisher or big studio, keeping those games on PC (possibly with a delay for release).

I had no issue with Bungie continuing to be on PC and even Xbox.

But Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla etc should all be fully exclusive to PS forever.

They should have a clear division, a group that publishes everywhere and a console focused group. PSStudios should be the name for studios that ONLY publish on PS consoles. The others should be SIE Studios....

They could grow both and keep everybody happy..... but all I see is take take take from the console side with very little given back. Increased prices, less exclusives, worse showcases with far less effort, no fan engagement and no big improvements to customer services.

I find myself losing interest in the last months and I'm back at training, I find the desire to play games waning and the ecosystem less and less interesting / exciting , especially for the future.

I'm just a bit down on the whole thing.

The stupid thing is not making some sort of differentiating factor to promote and highlight the appeal of console. The way they're doing the PC ports as straight up ports isn't helping them at all.

How about attaching an incentive to buy the console when purchasing a PC port?

You got HZD on Steam? Cool, here's a $20 voucher for HFW if you buy a ps5 and link your account.
You got God of War 2018 on Steam? You get a free upgrade to the digital deluxe of GoW Ragnarok with a linked ps5 account.

Also, ports need to be minimum 3 years apart from console release.

 

[Yobo]

Worth noting who the audience of this interview is

Investors are basically retards with money. They are excited by buzzwords like children and if Jim Ryan is pitching to investors he will be skewing it to sound as buzzwordy as possible

 

[Deleted member 223]

You see... I'm fine with a few games that make sense going to PC OR if they buy a publisher or big studio, keeping those games on PC (possibly with a delay for release).

I had no issue with Bungie continuing to be on PC and even Xbox.

But Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla etc should all be fully exclusive to PS forever.

They should have a clear division, a group that publishes everywhere and a console focused group. PSStudios should be the name for studios that ONLY publish on PS consoles. The others should be SIE Studios....

They could grow both and keep everybody happy..... but all I see is take take take from the console side with very little given back. Increased prices, less exclusives, worse showcases with far less effort, no fan engagement and no big improvements to customer services.

I find myself losing interest in the last months and I'm back at training, I find the desire to play games waning and the ecosystem less and less interesting / exciting , especially for the future.

I'm just a bit down on the whole thing.

I don't settle - that policy is a cancer. I'm glad Nintendo understands that. I'm not fine with a single PlayStation exclusive making its way to PC. The more the PC crowd port begs and cries on social media and elsewhere about PlayStation exclusives the more its shows the FOMO effect (Fear of Missing Out - the want) is working. It's psychological. The more crying by certain media plants in the gaming press who lobby for certain platforms on the downlow (Xbox/PC) the more that tells you that your competitors are hurting. Manifestation of which you see when some in the gaming press fake out as gaming activists calling for an end to "exclusives", "exclusives are counter to what gaming is about", "closed gardens are wrong" etc. Solution is simple: Buy a PlayStation, consume in PSN and not over at Xbox or Steam where I see no other dime. Even the discussions about exclusives themselves attract attention to PlayStation and carry the message across: "If you want to enjoy this content - you buy a PlayStation". The hardcore fanboys of other platforms may double down on allegiance and cry their hearts out in defiance (never yield to PlayStation) but casuals and fair-weather fans do not respond that way, and as a block they're the overwhelming majority of consumers and will switch if pressured enough by FOMO. The question is whether you reach critical mass FOMO in certain genre's. The more you do for particular genre's, the greater the influx, as opposed to one-off titles. This is why cinenamic TPS have been so effective for Sony - they've achieved critical mass FOMO in this particular space. Path to success and victory is thus simple.

These idiots (Jim/Herman administration) capitulated without a single reason to do so at the height of victory coming off the PS4.... to every other competitors relief. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as they say. As you can surmise after 2020 or so about that anti-exclusive movement has completely died out. And not a beep when Xbox does a 180 and goes on a publisher acquisition spree to "spend Sony out of business". To the contrary everyone keeps quiet like nothing is happening, business as usual or supportive, except of course PS fans who are getting the short end of the stick. This tells you all you need to know about the activist press and the selective fake outrage, narrative pushing campaigns. There is no such thing as a "gaming press". It's saturated with industry lobbyist, access journalist posing etc.

 

[anonpuffs]

I don't settle - that policy is a cancer. I'm glad Nintendo understands that. I'm not fine with a single one making its way to PC. The more the PC crowd port begs and cries on social media and elsewhere, the more the FOMO effect is working. The more media plants lobbying for certain platforms (Xbox/PC) cry for an end to "exclusives", "exclusives are counter to what gaming is about", "closed gardens are wrong" etc.... the more that tells me that my game exclusivity is hurting them and causing them FOMO pain...thus its intended effect. Solution is simple: Buy a PlayStation, consume here and not over there where I see no other dime. Even the discussions themselves attract attention to my platform and carry the message across - if you want to enjoy this content - you buy here. The hardcore fanboys of other platforms may double down on allegiance and cry their hearts out in defiance but casuals and fair-weather fans do not, and they form the overwhelming majority. Victory is simple.

These idiots (Jim/Herman administration) capitulated without a single reason to do so at the height of victory coming off the PS4.... to every other competitors relief. As you can see that movement has completely died out. And not a beep when Xbox does a 180 and goes on a publisher acquisition spree to "spend Sony out of business". There is no such thing as a "gaming press". It's saturated with industry lobbyist, access journalist posing.

I don't think there's any evidence that the PC strategy has damaged the PS5 or Sony brand or console appeal yet.

 

[Bryank75]

I don't settle - that policy is a cancer. I'm glad Nintendo understands that. I'm not fine with a single one making its way to PC. The more the PC crowd port begs and cries on social media and elsewhere, the more the FOMO effect is working. The more media plants lobbying for certain platforms (Xbox/PC) cry for an end to "exclusives", "exclusives are counter to what gaming is about", "closed gardens are wrong" etc.... the more that tells me that my game exclusivity is hurting them and causing them FOMO pain...thus its intended effect. Solution is simple: Buy a PlayStation, consume here and not over there where I see no other dime. Even the discussions themselves attract attention to my platform and carry the message across - if you want to enjoy this content - you buy here. The hardcore fanboys of other platforms may double down on allegiance and cry their hearts out in defiance but casuals and fair-weather fans do not, and they form the overwhelming majority. Victory is simple.

These idiots (Jim/Herman administration) capitulated without a single reason to do so at the height of victory coming off the PS4.... to every other competitors relief. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as they say. As you can see that anti-exclusive movement has completely died out. And not a beep when Xbox does a 180 and goes on a publisher acquisition spree to "spend Sony out of business". To the contrary everyone keeps quiet like nothing is happening, business as usual or supportive, except of course PS fans who are getting the short end of the stick. There is no such thing as a "gaming press". It's saturated with industry lobbyist, access journalist posing etc.

Yeah, I agree with everything you wrote here.

I guess softening my stance would do nothing anyway. The only way is full exclusivity.... they'd just slowly try to get back to where they wanted to go anyway.... just slower.

 

[Deleted member 223]

I don't think there's any evidence that the PC strategy has damaged the PS5 or Sony brand or console appeal yet.

It damaged Xbox hardware and brand vis a vis PlayStation. What you're seeing sales wise is the high-end console hardware market consolidating and coalescing around PlayStation because Xbox is dogshit. Reasons for owning Xbox hardware are few.

It will damage PlayStation in the console hardware market given enough time. It will damage it by making sure PC players that may consider consoles (and PlayStation) stay on PC as the reasons to switch lessen. It will also ecourage dual PC-PS owners to consume more regularly on PC (for $$$ savings or other incentives). Even more, Xbox/Nintendo owners will consider PC more favorably as a multi-purpose one-stop shop, instead of PlayStation as a second gaming platform. Moreover, it opens PlayStation for a direct challenge from a more savvy competitor not named MS/Xbox that is able to exploit the weaker software differentiation of PlayStation hardware in the console space. Namely, Nintendo if they decide to do high-end console hardware which will afford them full third party support, to go along with Nintendo's true impactful exclusives that differentiate the box. Valve on the other hand can release a console with Steam OS, and market this console with Sony's very own "exclusive" software while being in direct competition with PlayStation consoles (weirdest shit) ....while also bridging the ecosystem install base Valve has on PC. The Steam Deck can be seen as a successful trial balloon... there is not much of a gap from a portable to a home console in terms of designing the hardware (everything is just bigger, perhaps simpler).

Lastly, supporting PC by a console platform holder can have negative industry rippling effects for console hardware. For example, encouraging developers to support the PC platform more out of their own volition because the market is legitimized by the sheer economic activity in it vis a vis consoles. Specially if the impression is created, grounded or not in reality that PC is the "growth" platform. Business and investor psychology can be dumb as fuck when in their own little bubble - they attach to terms like "growth" and rumors of such like a plague - anything for that elusive extra buck. No platform holder should encourage this perception for any marginal gain. More importantly, no console platform holder should encourage an industry shift from a console first approach, to PC first. As a console platform holder you still want an industry where you get the good ports and PC gets the poor ports. As a console platform owner you certainly don't want to find yourself switching positions or encourage it slowly. It's a long game, idiots need not apply or play.

Unfortunately these idiots don't know what they're doing. Microsoft buys Valve/Steam tomorrow and decides to merge the Steam OS, with Xbox's OS, and Xbox will have Sony's top of the line "exclusives" in their store. A hypothetical of course, but now the argument that Microsoft is not eyeing Valve has gone up in smoke. They're serious about acquiring Valve.... so where there is smoke, there is always fire, specially with ex-MS employees in Washington state of all states. And there is no lost love between Sony and Valve - trust and believe, history is littered with examples - and mainly because PC and consoles are direct competition, and PC stakeholders like Valve and MS, as the weaker, wanted to share the premium games market with consoles. The PS3 disaster allowed PC to squeeze in firmly, and MS and the Xbox 360 console helped tremendously furthering this goal.

This a long game not made for idiots. Sometimes the right play is staying still and letting your competition show their cards while you sit at the very top. Clearly not an advice given, received or taken by Sony's current leadership when they decided to go with PC releases. "Lets become a third party publisher to make a couple extra hundred million a year. Won't hurt we swear - upsides only!".

 

[Bryank75]

It damaged Xbox hardware and brand vis a vis PlayStation. What you're seeing sales wise is the high end console hardware market is console consumers coalescing around PlayStation because Xbox is dogshit. Reasons for owning Xbox hardware are few.

It will damage PlayStation in the console hardware market given enough time. It will damage it by making sure PC players that may consider consoles (and PlayStation) stay on PC, or dual PC-PS owners consume more regularly on PC, or Xbox/Nintendo owners consider PC more favorably, instead of PlayStation as a second platform. Moreover, it opens PlayStation for a direct challenge from a more savvy competitor not named MS and Xbox that is able to exploit the weaker software differentiation of PlayStation hardware. Namely Nintendo if they decide to do high-end with true exclusives. Valve on the other hand can release a console, and market itself with Sony's own "exclusive" software while bridging the install base with PC. The Steam deck can be seen as a successful trial balloon... from portable to a home console there is not much of a gap.

These idiots don't know what they're doing. Microsoft buys Valve/Steam tomorrow and decides to merge the Steam OS, with Xbox's OS, and Xbox will have Sony's top of the line "exclusives" in them. A hypothetical of course, but now the argument that Microsoft is not eyeing Valve has gone up in smoke. They're serious about it.... where there is smoke, there is always fire, specially with ex-MS employees in Washington state of all states. And there is no lost love between Sony and Valve - trust and believe, history is littered with examples - and mainly because PC and consoles are direct competition, and PC, as the weaker, wanted to share the premiums games market with consoles. The PS3 disaster allowed PC to squeeze in firmly, and MS and Xbox helped tremendously.

This a long game not made for idiots. Sometimes the right play is staying still and letting your competition show their cards while you sit at the very top. Clearly not an advice Sony's current leadership understood at the time. "Lets become a third party publisher to make a couple extra hundred million a year. Won't hurt we swear"....

Yup and executives in gaming (Jim and Phil both) say console market isn't growing..... yet PC / Steam numbers are increasing monthly, both overall users and monthly highs online at once.

So they are handing growth to PC, instead of using the competitive price of console hardware and throwing away the power of real exclusives.

Saying there is no growth in consoles just gives them an excuse to do the easiest thing and throw games on PC, instead of actually fighting for market share and trying to attract new users.

 

[Deleted member 223]

Yup and executives in gaming (Jim and Phil both) say console market isn't growing..... yet PC / Steam numbers are increasing monthly, both overall users and monthly highs online at once.

So they are handing growth to PC, instead of using the competitive price of console hardware and throwing away the power of real exclusives.

Saying there is no growth in consoles just gives them an excuse to do the easiest thing and throw games on PC, instead of actually fighting for market share and trying to attract new users.

The thing about MS, they're the main stakeholders of PC, with a Windows monopoly. It's in MS interest to see PC vibrant and resurgent vis a vis consoles, even if Xbox goes up in smoke in the process.

Matter of fact, if consoles go away tomorrow, it becomes extremely much easier for MS to be in the pole position to dominate an all-cloud future, with an all-digital future becoming an instant fact cause physical media is dead on PC (no surprise there). The MS dream is co-opting the premium games market around a platform or set of platforms under MS's control with token competition to give the fake appearance of the lack of a monopoly. Win, win, win.

Only a company that does not believe in console hardware would make the moves Microsoft has made for the last 2 decades to the detriment of Xbox's hardware appeal. This is not rocket science or "being stupid", thus projecting stupidity to very shrewd monopolists whose sole goal has been to disrupt the console market and shape it to their designs. Just look at the moves - from always-online physical DRM consoles, to offering a digital only console alongside a physical media console as an "option" to now, with the Xbox Series X refresh, phasing out all physical media consoles with all-digital offerings by the end of this generation. To kick off the new generation, in 2028, a hybrid cloud console... whatever that is. It's as clear as day.

Since dislodging PlayStation and Nintendo from the premium games market has been extremely hard for MS to achieve, next best thing is to pester Sony and Nintendo by trying to disrupt and shape the market from within to MS's desired long term state. A state, where MS, obviously, is in the pole position to dominate. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish in its most natural form. Everything else is smoke and mirrors for fools.

 

[Cool hand luke]

Beautiful statements from Jim Ryan. The future of Playstation is super exciting. This is great stuff:


Consoles are a "constraint" on expanding your audience

PC, as demonstrated by me, is an even smaller market than consoles. Worthless and shortsighted moves. Mobile makes sense for expansion.

 

[Nomen_Nescio]

Also, I think he meant to say single player, not first person.

What a fucking moron, how can you work so long for Sony and not know the difference?

 

[AshHunter216]

What a fucking moron, how can you work so long for Sony and not know the difference?

I think you guys are reading way too deeply into this. It's a direct transcription, dude just misspoke.

 

[Shmunter]

MS buying up the industry could result in a kick up Sony’s ass like in the 360 generation. Focus on 1st party quality. I mean who wouldn’t want more of that? To be honest there aren’t too many games that are all that outside of the Sony catalogue. At least for me.

 

[historia]

To be fair @Bryank75 has reasons to be mad about PC ports, but oh well, at least Jimbo did not bite the subcription poison.

I still haven't think PC ports damage PS brand, PS5 is still sell really well, just it is spitting on long time PS users.

 

[Old Gamer]

The thing about MS, they're the main stakeholders of PC, with a Windows monopoly. It's in MS interest to see PC vibrant and resurgent vis a vis consoles, even if Xbox goes up in smoke in the process.

Matter of fact, if consoles go away tomorrow, it becomes extremely much easier for MS to be in the pole position to dominate an all-cloud future, with an all-digital future becoming an instant fact cause physical media is dead on PC (no surprise there). The MS dream is co-opting the premium games market around a platform or set of platforms under MS's control with token competition to give the fake appearance of the lack of a monopoly. Win, win, win.

Only a company that does not believe in console hardware would make the moves Microsoft has made for the last 2 decades to the detriment of Xbox's hardware appeal. This is not rocket science or "being stupid", thus projecting stupidity to very shrewd monopolists whose sole goal has been to disrupt the console market and shape it to their designs. Just look at the moves - from always-online physical DRM consoles, to offering a digital only console alongside a physical media console as an "option" to now, with the Xbox Series X refresh, phasing out all physical media consoles with all-digital offerings by the end of this generation. To kick off the new generation, in 2028, a hybrid cloud console... whatever that is. It's as clear as day.

Since dislodging PlayStation and Nintendo from the premium games market has been extremely hard for MS to achieve, next best thing is to pester Sony and Nintendo by trying to disrupt and shape the market from within to MS's desired long term state. A state, where MS, obviously, is in the pole position to dominate. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish in its most natural form. Everything else is smoke and mirrors for fools.

Preach. More people in here get it than you realize.

 

[Swift_Star]

The way he shit talked game pass is classy…

 

[Bryank75]

To be fair @Bryank75 has reasons to be mad about PC ports, but oh well, at least Jimbo did not bite the subcription poison.

I still haven't think PC ports damage PS brand, PS5 is still sell really well, just it is spitting on long time PS users.

The thing is, we don't have anything to compare current sales to. So we can't see what PS5 would have sold if there were no ports to PC.

The ports have happened, the image of exclusivity is broken, the games are less special because of it.

Mario games / Zelda games are special and hold more value because they are exclusive, it's not just because of the gameplay or quality... that has always been my position.

PlayStation is under attack from many sides and when you are under attack, you pull up the draw bridge and close the castle, you get all your guards on the wall firing arrows out from the protection of the castle. But what did Jim and co do instead..... the abandoned the castle and ran straight out into the enemy and now they have no protection. Now they have made themselves vulnerable.

Jim might not value the castle that was built by his forefathers..... but Microsoft want it big time.

 

[flaccidsnake]

@KnittedKnight

The thing is, we don't have anything to compare current sales to. So we can't see what PS5 would have sold if there were no ports to PC.

The ports have happened, the image of exclusivity is broken, the games are less special because of it.

Mario games / Zelda games are special and hold more value because they are exclusive, it's not just because of the gameplay or quality... that has always been my position.

PlayStation is under attack from many sides and when you are under attack, you pull up the draw bridge and close the castle, you get all your guards on the wall firing arrows out from the protection of the castle. But what did Jim and co do instead..... the abandoned the castle and ran straight out into the enemy and now they have no protection. Now they have made themselves vulnerable.

Jim might not value the castle that was built by his forefathers..... but Microsoft want it big time.

The castle walls are made out of Playstation first party games. PC ports strengthen the walls by Ryan's own statement.