Sony Gaming Unit Adds Uber Antitrust Lawyer Amid Expansion Plans

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Midn1ght

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I assume that maybe they needed some extra time to polish performance and maybe also to implement some extra stuff they got from other PC ports like the 32:9 support and other stuff that we saw recently announced for Spider-Man.

Or maybe there were some 1st party or 3rd party recent delays that made these months too busy. Or thought it was too close of the PS5 remasters, or that they prefer to don't overshadow GoW PC sales, or stuff like that.

As I remember Sony only mentioned "summer" as date for the PC release so maybe they meant September and there is no delay.

But in any case yes, I assume they'll acquire someone else to help Nixxes with the PC ports. Being them porting Uncharted and having Boyes as CEO I think pretty likely they'll buy them.
All are valid reasons. It might also be that they didn’t expect Nixxes to be so god damn good and fast. They bought them a year ago and are already about to release two major ports with ray tracing, etc...

I also feel Spiderman games on PC are a bigger deal than Uncharted.

I wouldn't be happy.
I bet.
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Yurinka

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All are valid reasons. It might also be that they didn’t expect Nixxes to be so god damn good and fast. They bought them a year ago and are already about to release two major ports with ray tracing, etc...

I also feel Spiderman games on PC are a bigger deal than Uncharted.
Or who knows, maybe they are even already working on the acquisition of Iron Galaxy and are waiting to have the paperwork ready to announce the acquisition, and want to wait to release at the same time the news of the acquisition, the release date of the port and a launch trailer.
 
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Firefly

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Or who knows, maybe they are even already working on the acquisition of Iron Galaxy and are waiting to have the paperwork ready to announce the acquisition, and want to wait to release at the same time the news of the acquisition, the release date of the port and a laun
I doubt they would acquire Iron Galaxy.
 
24 Jun 2022
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That's not accurate at all

Look how Sony just upped their aquistions budget to 30.7billion US dollars



Sony has way more cash on hand, and they have access to a whole lot more/can raise much more, have tons of significant assets etc.

Your original assessment that Sony and Microsoft are closer than people think was spot on👌

(not necessarily in pure straight up cash for cash, but Sony is 1 of the largest conglomerates in the world)

It's not about market cap, or even pure cash on hand, and very rarely does any of that even tell a fraction of the story



How many people even know that micorsoft had loans from Goldmans Sachs to buy Activision (or at least is attempting to buy pending investigations)

And check this out






I'm not quite a stocks & finance guy so some of this went over my head, but I'm glad there's other people who clearly understand that acquisitions aren't just about who has the most money to spend.

Didn't have a clue about the Goldman Sachs loan for ABK, but it doesn't sound that surprising. Well, it does in the sense that MS seemingly has a big warchest of cash so why need to take out a loan? Kind of flies in the face of the theory that they "need" to burn off cash-on-hand to avoid inflation and taxes on that cash, plus as you brought up, they also have to have money set aside for operating income and they're a big-ass company so that's going to cost a lot more than at smaller corporations.

BEING FIRST PLACE OR SELLING THE MOST DOES NOT MAKE A MONOPOLY. BEING MARKET LEADER IS NOT A MONOPOLY

A monopoly is when a company uses underhanded tactics to gain "UNFAIR ADVANTAGES" and or uses unfair advantages to HARM COMPETITORS

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING 1ST PLACE

Thank you. Been hoping for other people to see this for what it is. Agencies like the FTC and DOJ aren't looking at companies in isolation of only the industry they're operating in (and their position in said industry/market); they're looking at the ENTIRE company. Microsoft being #3 in gaming revenue means nothing in avoiding antitrust concerns if they buy up more ABK-sized publishers (or companies, for that matter, hence why that Netflix rumor sounds a bit BS to me).

The fact is, MS as a corporation are using their entire corporate financial power, thanks to their OTHER divisions, in order to make a purchase like ABK, which jumps them ahead considerably in gaming revenue without having really "earned" it in the space of sales revenue within the gaming market, but from money earned by products and services in other unrelated tech sectors being leveraged for a purchase in the gaming space.

If a company becomes #1 in a given field by simply offering a genuinely better (or better marketed, or better-supplied) product, that isn't a monopoly. They may have majority marketshare but they earned it through fair competition. Now, Sony did leverage strengths they had as a full corporation when entering the market with PS1, to their advantage, to do things Sega and Nintendo couldn't. We can't ignore that. However, Sony didn't use those resource advantages to buy out large parts of gaming market through purchases of 3P devs and pubs. They didn't lock Sega or Nintendo out of fab space to produce enough consoles they needed to serve their market, either.

Now some of that's due to how different the market was; Sony, Sega and Nintendo didn't have to pay for the same fab because they all had wildly different tech and the processes weren't "cutting edge" enough to where only a single fab or two could make the chips. Sony didn't use their money to shut Sega & Nintendo out from advertising partners (not suggesting Microsoft is doing that, I'm just using an example), or to make purchases beyond the means of what Sega or Nintendo could've realistically done, since SCEI wasn't really taken that seriously by the rest of Sony for a little bit (some of the other departments like Sony Music resented the gaming division early on, and wouldn't share with them), so SCEI only had a fraction of overall Sony money to work with. It also didn't hurt them that Nintendo and especially Sega (unfortunately) were making terrible business decisions left and right effectively killing themselves in the market and making Sony's job that much easier.
 
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Publisher wise, my money would be on Square Enix but with that said, I don't see Sony acquiring any publisher not even because of the purchase cost but because of the cost, post close. I don't see Sony adding thousands of employees and development costs to their company.

I can see Sony acquiring a few development studios instead. Low cost, low risk, high reward. With Sony acquiring another eSports company a few days ago, I can see them going after NetherRealm from Warner/Discovery as that would include the MK IP.

One other thing is that Sony could be prepping for an acquisition that has nothing to do with gaming. Just have to wait and see.

I really don't think NetherRealm alone are worth it for, well, anybody I guess. Strong studio, but very genre-limited and mainly stuck to one IP for their entire existence. In the case Sony couldn't get the DC license, for example, and MK for whatever reason loses steam, would NetherRealm really be able to make a pivot and do a successful new IP in a new (for them) genre?

Not everyone's Guerrilla or Naughty Dog, in fact most devs aren't, so you can't guarantee some teams can make a transition despite being very good at what they currently do. Maybe under PlayStation leadership a team like NetherRealm would be able to do such; maybe they could bring something really cool to a new Killzone or Resistance game before trying their hand a new IP for example.

But ultimately Sony's acquisitions have been focused on talent and the flexibility of that talent when it comes to the variety of games they've worked on successfully. Teams like NetherRealm have the first part, but not the second, so they probably wouldn't qualify, and they aren't a publisher like Bungie so there's a lot of management integration PlayStation would have to take on with them that a company like Bungie basically already has covered.

Do you have trouble with reading compression? Or are you an xbox fanboy who's scared that Sony can actually respond and is terrified of Sony's response and now trying to cope with any possible responses?

NO, the GTA IP is magnitudes LARGER than the Call of Duty IP. The last Call of Duty underperformed and the IP as a whole has been steadily declining. Mile Morales outsold the last Call of Duty game on PS5 during the holidays.

This is why microsoft's obsessive focus on IPs is going to come back and bite them in the corporate ass. IPs die, talents create the IPs and never die. Sony are the smart ones focusing on talent. The big IPs Sony would buy would only be bought FOR BARGAINING CHIPS

Rockstar alone has had multiple IPs sell way higher than the highest selling Call of Dury game. GTA along with the Pokeman IP are 2 of the greatest entertainment IPs.

And the reason why I asked if you have trouble with reading comprehension is because I never said Sony would keep GTA or Fortnight exclusive. That's why READING IS FUNDAMENTAL. In fact I said the opposite, so if you go back and reread my post properly you're probably going to feel ashamed for your misinterpretarion. Again here it is, read this clearly, I said that Sony would buy those IPs AS BARGAINING CHIPS to always keep microsoft in check

C'mon man I know you're passionate about this stuff, so are all of us. But no need for the name-calling IMO. Besides the poster you're responding to is mainly a PS guy, but people who like the same brand don't have to think like a hivemind.

As for the GTA vs COD stuff. Well, technically you're right in terms of their relative size; maybe not by magnitudes but, GTA5 has done a shitload of copies and GTA Online a shitload of money. But that's also the misleading part: GTA Five has done a massive amount in sales, but prior GTAs pale in comparison both in copies sold and revenue generated. GTA5 might even be an anomaly within the GTA franchise, but we won't know until GTA6 releases and we see its overall performance.

Also, GTA5 saw multiple re-releases in multiple console generations, and various mobile ports too. That all helped to fluff up the numbers, same with the PS4 & 360 pack-in bundles when those were happening (at least, I think there were 360 bundles with GTA5. Could be wrong about that). It's true the latest COD had softer sales than previous ones and the IP as a whole could be gradually declining (maybe; we need to see sales for the next couple of entries before knowing if there's a trend), but outside of that all the previous ones from the past 10 years or whatever have done extremely well and been within the ballpark of each other in lifetime sales. You also can't forget Warzone.

Basically, there's a reason MS jumped on buying ABK and COD is the second-largest reason (Candy Crush & King being the biggest one). Whether or not it's bigger or smaller than GTA in sales & revenue is irrelevant, because there's only maybe five IP in all of gaming with the regular revenue cash flow of or higher, those being GTA, Fortnite, Minecraft, and Roblox. When it comes to revenue, all five are in a class of their own.

In terms of quality, well, that's a lot more subjective and open to debate...

Take 2 has a market cap of 21.12B, which means to buy that you'd have top pay on top of that pretty likely around 50% premium or even (was 64% for Zynga or 45% for Activision Blizzard) because it's common in the current context of consolidation and there are assets or stocks that aren't in the market, so to buy Take 2 should cost easily way above $30B. Sony has some billions more in cash or they could get debt but if they'd plan to spend $30B only in gaming they'd have rised their acquisitions+investments+stock repurchase budget way more before making the acquisition.

This budget means Sony will spend under 30B in acquisitions, investmnets and stock repurchase until the end of the current fiscal year or a year or two after it. If needed, they'll rise it again after announcing the results of the current fiscal year in may 2023 (or for the next FY in May 2024) the soonest. It would be super rare to spend way beyond what in this FY when they said they had budgeted that, without mentioning before to their investors that they made a revision of the budget to increase it.

So in the current FY they'll spend under 30B and only a portion of it will be for acquisitions and only a portion of it will be for gaming. This FY I'd expect Sony to spend, being generous, 10-15B maximum in SIE acquisitions. And wouldn't be in one, it would be likely in multiple ones. Pretty likely even Haven, Lasengle or maybe even part of the Bungie deal are included there. So I think over $30B for Take 2 that it would cost it would be too much. Same goes with others like Epic, Netease, Sea (Garena), EA, Bandai Namco, Valve or Roblox which would be more expensive to be bougth this year.

If we add a 50% premium -very likely would be higher- to their current market cap for these publicly listed companies we have these acquisition estimated prices:
  • Tencent $604.11B
  • Netease $94.8B
  • Nintendo $77.88B
  • Sea (Garena) $63.2B
  • EA $54.57B
  • Roblox $34.8B
  • Take 2 $31.7B
  • Nexon $29B
  • Bandai Namco $24.8B
  • Unity $16.25B
  • Embracer $13.14B
  • Konami $11.28B
  • Capcom $8.9B
  • NC Soft $8.6B
  • Koei Tecmo $8.46B
  • Square Enix $8.25B
  • Ubisoft $7.8B
  • CyberAgent $7.53B
  • Netmarble $6.74B
  • Perfect World Entertainment (Chinese film + PC and mobile games) $6.12B
  • Sega Sammy $5.52B
  • CD Project $3B (its market cap is $1.99B, was $7.42B in 2020 due to Cyberpunk hype before release. Its current price is still way overvalued)
  • Paradox Interactive $2.82B
  • DeNA $2.5B
  • Mixi (mostly mobile games for Asia) $1.82B
  • GungHo $1.8B
  • Gree (Japanese mobile games for Asia + anime) $1.58B
  • Huya (China's Stadia) $1.2B
  • Team 17 $1.14B
  • Frontier Developments (devs of Elite series) $1B
  • Remedy $0.51B
  • People Can Fly $0.48B
  • Marvelous $0.45B
  • Devolver Digital $0.41B
  • Focus Home Interactive $0.39B
  • 11 bit studios $0.36B
  • Starbreeze $0.06B
  • Atari $0.06B
I think it would be realistic to expect Sony spending maximum ~$10B in SIE acquisitions this FY, even if they could spend more. But should be in a case where the major stockholders of these companies want or need to sell, where they are a good fit for Sony and Sony sees them a good fit for them. And that is not a major company for that country (if isn't a Japanese one) because its government could stop the acquisition.

Regarding non publicly listed companies people can make estimation of their value, but their current stockholders put the price they consider when selling. So companies like Valve, Epic, Arc System Works etc would decide their acquisition price if decide to sell.

TBF, Sony could also take out loans. @Savant mentioned MS taking out a loan from Goldman Sacs that seemingly is towards the ABK purchase. Disney took out loans for Fox. Netflix takes out loans all the time (or at least they did until recently).

Considering what financial asset leverage Sony has, particularly with Japanese banks (I'd imagine), they could definitely take out a loan for Take-Two if they really wanted it. But I doubt they really want Take-Two in the first place.

People really should keep in mind that their are things like the DMA in Europe and elsewhere creeping towards regulation of online stores and whatnot. Also just regulation concerning gaming in general w/ MTX/DLC. I think currently game consoles won't fit the bill for the DMA but that stuff doesn't happen in a bubble; the industry likely lobbied to make sure the rules didn't effect them.

A public policy expert goes beyond just getting mergers and acquisitions through. The guy probably spent most of his time at Uber dealing with trying to influence cities/states/countries to have Uber friendly laws.

(not saying Sony isn't also planning a lot of gaming acquisitions but they still may never buy anyone as big as a decent sized publisher)

Interesting, so the hire of this Uber lawyer could be them seeing a future fight for walled gardens and pushing against it?

Honestly I don't have a problem with walled gardens. They allow for a degree of full vertical integration that the alternative can't supply. If regulators want to make sure companies aren't taking advantage of their customers, the answer isn't to force them to open their ecosystem up to competitors IMO. It should be to just...increase the fines they receive if found guilty of manipulating their customers and abusing them in a walled garden ecosystem.

Because it's not just Sony who could end up hit really hard if suddenly walled gardens for gaming consoles are banned; it'll pretty much ruin Nintendo's whole business model and have a net negative across the board. And while they've been especially egregious in taking advantage of their customers in some ways (namely in BS pricing models for their games to where they never drop in price even after 5+ years), I don't think getting rid of walled gardens is a necessary step to cut down on that type of stuff.

We know it will be Lucid Games, iron Galaxy and Camoflaj...

We are just imagining some better stuff....call it hope for a better future.

I don't think Lucid Games are that bad tbh. I mean they've given us Twinkle Riot and that's 100% pure snack 🤤

No seriously tho, they aren't a bad team. They have former Evolution and Liverpool devs for a reason. They just need some better guidance and funding. Plenty of potential with them, Sony could even give them the Motorstorm IP because who else do they really have to work on it? And they do need a more arcade-style racer in their lineup tbh, just look at the success of stuff like Forza Horizon. That could've been Sony with Motorstorm or even Driveclub if they stuck with them.

In fact they could marry some of the PS All-Stars concept into a Motorstorm reboot, throw some legacy IP characters in there as drivers with special enhanced vehicles, even add some Twisted Metal flavor to the mix. So much potential.
 
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Satoru

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Fyi for the naysayers:

What @Savant said about market cap is true. There are tiny companies (compared to Sony) in the US valued at 20 to 50B without ever even turning a profit.

Market cap means how much your total stock is worth. The stock market has been decoupled from logic for well over a decade, which is why you see companies like Uber and their insanely creative accounting having huge market caps.

Sony is a behemoth with over 100k employers worldwide. One can argue if Microsofts or Sony's market cap are incorrect, but that's besides the point. The point is that when you grab your cash on hand and investments, Sony has a a lot of cash, and Microsoft has pretty much depleted their reserves in comparison.

With the right business speech and case, Sony should be able to acquire a company over 50% of their own market cap, if the headcount liabilities are in check.

Also, note I mentioned headcount and liabilities, which are very important in an acquisition.
 

IntentionalPun

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Interesting, so the hire of this Uber lawyer could be them seeing a future fight for walled gardens and pushing against it?

Honestly I don't have a problem with walled gardens. They allow for a degree of full vertical integration that the alternative can't supply. If regulators want to make sure companies aren't taking advantage of their customers, the answer isn't to force them to open their ecosystem up to competitors IMO. It should be to just...increase the fines they receive if found guilty of manipulating their customers and abusing them in a walled garden ecosystem.

Because it's not just Sony who could end up hit really hard if suddenly walled gardens for gaming consoles are banned; it'll pretty much ruin Nintendo's whole business model and have a net negative across the board. And while they've been especially egregious in taking advantage of their customers in some ways (namely in BS pricing models for their games to where they never drop in price even after 5+ years), I don't think getting rid of walled gardens is a necessary step to cut down on that type of stuff.

Yeah I think it'll be a big part of their job (and anyone under this guy). Not like Sony is always dealing with an M&A scenario. There's a lot of things a public policy lawyer would be involved in really.

He has pretty extensive experience with both things looking at his resume (dealing with governments on policy, as well as anti-trust reviews for mergers and acquisitions.) Like many years of both, and he went back and forth between those things.

Granted his title at Sony could go either way.. "Regulatory affairs" is rather vague and seems like to me would fit both dealing with M&A regulations but also just laws in general.

I'm not a huge fan of governments meddling in walled gardens myself, but it is a potential issue for the Sony and Microsoft's of the world. I do understand the desire to look into what Apple and Google are doing though, but the regulations shouldn't be super strict either.. the DMA in Europe doesn't sound too bad, been fairly impressed with EU legislations on these topics.
 
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Yeah I think it'll be a big part of their job (and anyone under this guy). Not like Sony is always dealing with an M&A scenario. There's a lot of things a public policy lawyer would be involved in really.

He has pretty extensive experience with both things looking at his resume (dealing with governments on policy, as well as anti-trust reviews for mergers and acquisitions.) Like many years of both, and he went back and forth between those things.

Granted his title at Sony could go either way.. "Regulatory affairs" is rather vague and seems like to me would fit both dealing with M&A regulations but also just laws in general.

I'm not a huge fan of governments meddling in walled gardens myself, but it is a potential issue for the Sony and Microsoft's of the world. I do understand the desire to look into what Apple and Google are doing though, but the regulations shouldn't be super strict either.. the DMA in Europe doesn't sound too bad, been fairly impressed with EU legislations on these topics.

Yeah, there are some companies definitely guilty of abusing their walled gardens, you mentioned them right there with Apple & Google. You don't have to turn that far to see the BS Google pulls with Youtube, for example.

But there should be exception for ecosystems comprising of devices specifically built for a single purpose. Game consoles should qualify for that, even tho they've become so sophisticated over the years they can use streaming apps, play DVDs and Blu-Ray discs, surf the internet etc. If there's any roadblock for a company like Sony in terms of having a part of their walled garden under threat, it might be the fact they don't allow 3P digital codes to be used in the PS Store.

That might create some problems down the line, since Microsoft allows 3P codes on their own storefront IIRC (I doubt Nintendo does, however), but it's a fairly easy one to address and something where companies like Sony and Nintendo can find some good compromise, without having to face the type of scrutiny companies like Apple, Google etc. are facing with their own devices.
 
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I really don't think NetherRealm alone are worth it for, well, anybody I guess. Strong studio, but very genre-limited and mainly stuck to one IP for their entire existence. In the case Sony couldn't get the DC license, for example, and MK for whatever reason loses steam, would NetherRealm really be able to make a pivot and do a successful new IP in a new (for them) genre?

Not everyone's Guerrilla or Naughty Dog, in fact most devs aren't, so you can't guarantee some teams can make a transition despite being very good at what they currently do. Maybe under PlayStation leadership a team like NetherRealm would be able to do such; maybe they could bring something really cool to a new Killzone or Resistance game before trying their hand a new IP for example.

But ultimately Sony's acquisitions have been focused on talent and the flexibility of that talent when it comes to the variety of games they've worked on successfully. Teams like NetherRealm have the first part, but not the second, so they probably wouldn't qualify, and they aren't a publisher like Bungie so there's a lot of management integration PlayStation would have to take on with them that a company like Bungie basically already has covered.
I believe that NetherRealm would be worth it for Sony or Microsoft for that matter, if anything more Microsoft because there's a lot of fighting games that only get released on PlayStation. MK (and SF) are both huge in that eSports community and whatnot which Sony seems to be investing a good amount of money into so getting NR and the MK IP would be huge plus, they would cost less than Bungie cost which in all honesty, I believe Sony overpaid for them.

Sony doesn't need the DC license and MK if anything surpassed SF years ago and is the arguably the biggest fighting franchise there is. NR would have to completely shit the bed and I don't see that happening. They're simply too good. Also, even if MK did start to decline, Sony has a close relationship with Disney and Marvel so they could always get Marvel characters and have NR make a Marvel based fighting game which would probably do gangbusters. Not only that but adding MK with having all these other fighting games locks out the competition from having them. Similar to what Sony has done with Final Fantasy. When you have the biggest game in a respective genre, majority will go where it is because they'll also get everything else in the genre.

Housemarque, Bluepoint and others aren't publishers either and all of them combined haven't had the success that NetherRealm have had. They have around 250 employees and I don't think that Sony would have to do a whole lot to implement them into the company. And while he's not the studio head, Ed Boon is still there and at almost 60 years old, has a shit ton of experience and knowledge. Not saying that Sony is acquiring NetherRealm but if they did, I don't see any issues at all and if anything, could be even more successful.
 

Yurinka

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TBF, Sony could also take out loans. @Savant mentioned MS taking out a loan from Goldman Sacs that seemingly is towards the ABK purchase. Disney took out loans for Fox. Netflix takes out loans all the time (or at least they did until recently).

Considering what financial asset leverage Sony has, particularly with Japanese banks (I'd imagine), they could definitely take out a loan for Take-Two if they really wanted it. But I doubt they really want Take-Two in the first place.
Yes, if wanted to spend more in acquisitions, Sony has access to loans: even some of their main share holders are big banks both Japanese and from USA. Plus are in a great finantial position and growth pattern so banks would get them a loan to help them grow with no problem. In fact, outside the money of the budget they have for acquisitions Sony has cash. If their budget for acquisitions isn't bigger the reason isn't the lack of money. Sony can afford to spend more than 30B in acquisitions with no problem. I never said that if Sony won't spend more in acquisitions the reason would be that Sony doesn't have enough money but instead is the process they follow, or that simply they don't want to spend more than they set as budget for this period:

They made a special budget for investments, acquisitions and stocks repurchases with the money they think they'll spend in the next 3 years or so (using money I think coming from their cash/revenue from previous years or maybe even from loans). And then they make acquisitions and investments or buy Sony stocks using money from that budget. At the end of each fiscal year, if due to the opportunities they saw spent more than expected and they see they need to expand that budget because they plan to spend more of what they originally thought for the next fiscal year (pretty likely they are in talks and plan to acquire people for a value of X billions the next year), they increase that budget whatever is needed and notify it to their investors in the fiscal year report announcement, in around May, as they did this year.

The thing is, the creation/enlargement of this budget is made and announced at the end of the fiscal year. This May they announced they increased the budget to 30B. In the future they can make it bigger, but would be in May 2023 or May 2024. They have this process, and Japanese guys always really like to follow plans, rules and processes, they rarely improvise. These $30B is what they plan to spend as of now for a handful of years (not only for the first one) not in SIE only, but in the whole Sony, and not in acquisitions only, but also in stocks repurchases and investments but they can revise it every year when making the FY report in May.

I think it's pretty likely they'll spend most of these $30B this fiscal year in acquisitions, repurchases and investment this fiscal year. In multiple ones for the whole Sony, and that maybe around half of it, maybe a bit more (remember they spent around 40% of it in SIE previously), will be for SIE/gaming. Let's say SIE gets aorund $15B and spends around $12B of it this FY. I expect that SIE will make some acquisitions and some investments this FY, most of them small like the eSports they recently did and they spend around maybe a couple of billions on them. Then SIE would have maybe up to around 10-11B to spend in big acquisitions for this FY, maybe from 1 to 3 of around the same price of Bungie or bigger.

So following the Sony methodology, I think that bein realistic we can see SIE spending 10, 11, maybe even 12B this FY on big acquisitions. They could even spent it in a single one. To buy a company they don't need to buy the 100%, to control it 51% is enough, but we saw SIE acquiring the 100% of them on their acquisitions, like with Bungie. So I doubt this year they'll buy someone more expensive than Konami, Square or Capcom, companies that would cost them under 12B.

Take 2 would cost them slightly over 30B, maybe even more. And only SIE would benefit from it. So if Sony ever get Take 2, I think it would be other FY. I think that if they do an extra effort to go way beyond 12B in this FY for a SIE acquisition would be for someone else who would also benefit other Sony divisions: Bandai Namco.

In addition to have their gaming side, they are the top 2 toy maker in the world (top 1 a few years ago), only behind Lego. Sony recently did open a division where they had that toy robot dog and something else, and SIE did a partnership with a toy maker company to make some toys and figurines of PS IPs.

They could turn the toys and figurines part of Bandai into the toys division of Sony, put there their dog robot and use it to make toys and statues of not only the big amount of anime IPs they already do, but the Sony anime IPs, the Sony game IPs, the Sony movie & tv shows IPs and even of their musicians at Sony music to handle themselves. Imagine the potential of toy robots but instead of being shaped as a dog, shaped as popular anime robots like Gundam or any other IP that Bandai handles.

Bandai Namco has the exclusive usage for games and toys of many top non-Sony anime IPs. If Sony gets Bandai Namco, Sony could offer these anime makers an upsell offering to put their animes on Sony's anime platform and also make real action movie/tv shows adaptations of them and access to their Sony Music artist to make them songs.

Interesting, so the hire of this Uber lawyer could be them seeing a future fight for walled gardens and pushing against it?

Honestly I don't have a problem with walled gardens. They allow for a degree of full vertical integration that the alternative can't supply. If regulators want to make sure companies aren't taking advantage of their customers, the answer isn't to force them to open their ecosystem up to competitors IMO. It should be to just...increase the fines they receive if found guilty of manipulating their customers and abusing them in a walled garden ecosystem.

Because it's not just Sony who could end up hit really hard if suddenly walled gardens for gaming consoles are banned; it'll pretty much ruin Nintendo's whole business model and have a net negative across the board. And while they've been especially egregious in taking advantage of their customers in some ways (namely in BS pricing models for their games to where they never drop in price even after 5+ years), I don't think getting rid of walled gardens is a necessary step to cut down on that type of stuff.
Walled gardens benefit Sony and Nintendo in consoles, and Google and Apple in phones & tablets.

Epic and Nintendo want to break them to get benefited by putting their own store on Google, Apple, Sony and Nintendo hardware to sell games and services there without paying anything to the hardware makers. By doing that they'd heavily expand their userbase, which now is limited because in PC is Steam who has most of the market share and in consoles Xbox has a too small market share.

Sony's gaming revenue comes in a big part from the PSN store. So getting forced to allow other stores in PS hardware would hurt them. So pretty likely an important part of the job of this guy would be to fight against it. But if regulators force Sony to do it, pretty likely will mean that they will be also forcing Nintendo, Xbox, Google and Apple to do it, meaning Sony would be able to put their PSN store (and PS+) in all these platforms without having to pay anything to their hardware makers, which in the short term would be a pain in the ass, in the long term would mean good news for Sony because the PSN store would be reaching a way, way bigger audience.

From a player standpoint, it would mean to have more games and subscriptions in all consoles. In PS you'd end in the long term having at least PSN, Nintendo's eShop, Steam, XBL and the Epic Store (plus I assume EA and Ubi stores). And pretty likely in the long term this competition would also mean also having crossbuy between them all like with the Steamdeck: the games you bought in a platform, if available on the store of other platform you could also play them there at no extra cost.

No seriously tho, they aren't a bad team. They have former Evolution and Liverpool devs for a reason. They just need some better guidance and funding. Plenty of potential with them, Sony could even give them the Motorstorm IP because who else do they really have to work on it? And they do need a more arcade-style racer in their lineup tbh, just look at the success of stuff like Forza Horizon. That could've been Sony with Motorstorm or even Driveclub if they stuck with them.

In fact they could marry some of the PS All-Stars concept into a Motorstorm reboot, throw some legacy IP characters in there as drivers with special enhanced vehicles, even add some Twisted Metal flavor to the mix. So much potential.
I think with Lucid they should do like with Fabrik: to absorb them into Firesprite, where they have plenty of former Liverpool Studio, Evolution and Bizarre Creations staff, like in (a way smaller scale) Lucid.

Then Firesprite would deliver the brand new Motorstorm and Wipeout games I want. With a great and complete single player campaign, full VR support for the whole game, friendly+casual MP modes (maybe even team based one, and where you get points for everything making to end first not the only way to win) but also competitive eSports friendly ranked and tournament modes.

They could also be GaaS, meaning they'd have seasons adding free for everyone new game modes, new circuits, new teams, new music tracks, plus purchasable in a season pass -or unlockable by playing during that season- new vehicles, and not-gameplay-affecting/not-pay-to-win customizables for your vehicles.
 
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IntentionalPun

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But there should be exception for ecosystems comprising of devices specifically built for a single purpose. Game consoles should qualify for that, even tho they've become so sophisticated over the years they can use streaming apps, play DVDs and Blu-Ray discs, surf the internet etc. If there's any roadblock for a company like Sony in terms of having a part of their walled garden under threat, it might be the fact they don't allow 3P digital codes to be used in the PS Store.

Yeah what they did with the DMA is say that you had to have 50 million active users, as well as like 100k "business users."

Sony / Nintendo at least easily qualify for the first part, but I think the later would PROBABLY be calculated as "development companies" not "all the employees of development companies combined."

That's where this really only is going to apply to Apple/Google who have such a massive amount of devs that span so many areas.

But things can change, all it takes is a lawyer w/ some lobbying money from someone lol
 
24 Jun 2022
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I believe that NetherRealm would be worth it for Sony or Microsoft for that matter, if anything more Microsoft because there's a lot of fighting games that only get released on PlayStation. MK (and SF) are both huge in that eSports community and whatnot which Sony seems to be investing a good amount of money into so getting NR and the MK IP would be huge plus, they would cost less than Bungie cost which in all honesty, I believe Sony overpaid for them.

Actually I kinda agree that NR would probably be more a fit with Microsoft than Sony. They would have some great sister studios in Coalition and iD Software, all three of them specialize in pretty gritty, violent action-heavy games, so I'm sure there are workflows, ideas and techniques they could share between one another. Sony doesn't really have that many studios of that flavor outside of arguably Naughty Dog.

And it's true lots of fighters are PS-only; honestly if Sony were interested in picking up a fighting dev team Arc System Works would fit them better than NetherRealm, but that's just me. Insofar as Bungie, gotta keep in mind $1.2 billion of that money was for retainer, so Sony've only really paid $2.4 billion. Which might seem too much for some people still; for me I think the price is about right.

Sony doesn't need the DC license and MK if anything surpassed SF years ago and is the arguably the biggest fighting franchise there is.

Sony have strong ties to Marvel, particularly for Spiderman, so yeah they don't have a "need" for DC in that way. As for MK surpassing SF, well, sales is one thing. SF obliterates MK when it comes to character designs, animations, special effects, and sexy female characters IMO 😁

NR would have to completely shit the bed and I don't see that happening. They're simply too good. Also, even if MK did start to decline, Sony has a close relationship with Disney and Marvel so they could always get Marvel characters and have NR make a Marvel based fighting game which would probably do gangbusters. Not only that but adding MK with having all these other fighting games locks out the competition from having them. Similar to what Sony has done with Final Fantasy. When you have the biggest game in a respective genre, majority will go where it is because they'll also get everything else in the genre.

Technically speaking, Sony could get NetherRealm to make a Marvel fighter if they by some chance bought them, that's true. But would it be good? Does NetherRealm have a connection or understanding with the Marvel characters the way they do the DC ones? And don't forget, a NetherRealm-made Marvel fighter's going to get directly compared to Capcom's MvC games. The last one shat the bed, but the others have been really good and MvC2 is considered the best crossover fighter by many people.

It'd be a high bar for NetherRealm to surpass and they'd also have to make sure whatever they do satisfies the MvC fans.

Housemarque, Bluepoint and others aren't publishers either and all of them combined haven't had the success that NetherRealm have had. They have around 250 employees and I don't think that Sony would have to do a whole lot to implement them into the company. And while he's not the studio head, Ed Boon is still there and at almost 60 years old, has a shit ton of experience and knowledge. Not saying that Sony is acquiring NetherRealm but if they did, I don't see any issues at all and if anything, could be even more successful.

The difference though is that Housemarque & especially Bluepoint have proven they can provide variety. Returnal was a big step forward for Housemarque compared to their previous games. Bluepoint have shown they can do full-on remakes for games in completely different genres, and do them successfully.

NetherRealm may have generated more revenue than both studios combined, but it's not just about money. They do fit with Sony's eSports plans handily, but again, so too would Arc System Works, and they'd be a lot cheaper pickup and probably cater more to a specific niche than NetherRealm.

Overall, I guess I see NetherRealm being more of a fit with Microsoft than Sony from a "stylistic" POV. If just looking at the money they can bring in, I can see why Sony would want them, if it comes with the MK and DC licenses. I personally would rather Sony focus on a few Japanese acquisitions if they're really still looking around, and if we're just talking one focused on fighting games and would be relatively easy to do (not to mention, avoid any console warring aneurysms), Arc System Works would be such a studio.
 
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Yes, if wanted to spend more in acquisitions, Sony has access to loans: even some of their main share holders are big banks both Japanese and from USA. Plus are in a great finantial position and growth pattern so banks would get them a loan to help them grow with no problem. In fact, outside the money of the budget they have for acquisitions Sony has cash. If their budget for acquisitions isn't bigger the reason isn't the lack of money. Sony can afford to spend more than 30B in acquisitions with no problem. I never said that if Sony won't spend more in acquisitions the reason would be that Sony doesn't have enough money but instead is the process they follow:

They make a special budget for investments, acquisitions and stocks repurchases with the money they think they'll spend in the next 3 years or so (using money I think coming from their cash/revenue from previous years or maybe even from loans). And then they make acquisitions and investments or buy Sony stocks using money from that budget. At the end of the fiscal year, if due to the opportunities they saw spent more than expected and they see they need to expand that budget because they plan to spend more of what they originally thought for the next fiscal year (pretty likely they are in talks and plan to acquire people for a value of X billions the next year), they increase that budget whatever is neede and notify it to their investors in the fiscal year report announcement, as they did this year.

The thing is, the creation/enlargement of this budget is made and announced at the end of the fiscal year. This May they announced they increased the budget to 30B. In the future they can make it bigger, but would be in May 2023 or May 2024. They have this process and Japanese guys always like to follow plans, rules and processes, they rarely improvise. These $30B is what they plan to spend as of now for a handful of years (not only for the first one) not in SIE only, but in the whole Sony, and not in acquisitions only, but also in stocks repurchases and investments but they can revise it every year when making the FY report in May.

I think it's pretty likely they'll spend most of these $30B this fiscal year in acquisitions, repurchases and investment this fiscal year. In multiple ones for the whole Sony, and that maybe around half of it, maybe a bit more (remember they spent around 40% of it in SIE previously), will be for SIE/gaming. Let's say SIE gets aorund $15B and spends around $12B of it this FY. I expect that SIE will make some acquisitions and some investments this FY, most of them small like the eSports they did and they spend around maybe a couple of billions on them. Then SIE would have maybe around 10-11B to spend in big acquisitions for this FY.

So following the Sony methodology, I think that bein realistic we can see SIE spending 10, 11, maybe even 12B this FY on big acquisitions. They could even spent it in a single one. To buy a company they don't need to buy the 100%, to control it 51% is enough, but we saw SIE acquiring the 100% of them on their acquisitions, like with Bungie. So I doubt this year they'll buy someone more expensive than Konami, Square or Capcom, companies that would cost them under 12B.

So that's how they do it. I appreciate the insight; basically if they wanted something like Take-Two it's more a question if they could justify provisioning the funds in the acquisitions budget to buy them. The point being, they have the money, it's just down to whether they feel the purchase would justify that cost. If they are feeling that way for whatever reason now, they'll have to wait until the next fiscal year.

But as you've pointed out, the whole of Sony needs that budget, not just the gaming division, so the needs of the other divisions play a part in deciding how acquisition (and other) funds are allocated.

Take 2 would cost them slightly over 30B, maybe even more. And only SIE would benefit from it. So if Sony ever get Take 2, I think it would be other FY. I think that if they do an extra effort to go way beyond 12B in this FY for a SIE acquisition would be for someone else who would also benefit other Sony divisions: Bandai Namco.

In addition to have their gaming side, they are the top 2 toy maker in the world (top 1 a few years ago), only behind Lego. Sony recently did open a division where they had that toy robot dog and something else, and SIE did a partnership with a toy maker company to make some toys and figurines of PS IPs.

They could turn the toys and figurines part of Bandai into the toys division of Sony, put there their dog robot and use it to make toys and statues of not only the big amount of anime IPs they already do, but the Sony anime IPs, the Sony game IPs, the Sony movie & tv shows IPs and even of their musicians at Sony music to handle themselves.

Bandai Namco has the exclusive usage for games and toys of many top non-Sony anime IPs. If Sony gets Bandai Namco, Sony could offer these anime makers an upsell offering to put their animes on Sony's anime platform and also make movie adaptations of them and access to their Sony Music artist to make them songs.

I guess there is some sense for Bandai-Namco, but it doesn't seem like they're in a position where they'd need or want to sell the way, say, Square-Enix is looking. And Square-Enix brings a lot of the same benefits, outside of the toys thing, but I don't even know if the toys market is that big globally outside of the high-end figurines which tend to sell for big profit margins and are really cool collectibles. Does Bandai-Namco make toys of that type, or are they more the kind you'd find in like K-mart or Target's toy aisle?

I'm just guessing the toys market isn't as big or lucrative as it used to be outside of those high-end collectibles, the gaming market really ate into the appeal of the toys market for youth many years ago. Unless they're toys based on really big IP, which Sony have (Bandai-Namco have a few as well) but most of IP seem like they'd be better fit for the high-end collector figurines toy market where quantities are way smaller and prices much higher, but I'll assume Bandai-Namco have some presence in that part of the market as well.

Walled gardens benefit Sony and Nintendo in consoles, and Google and Apple in phones & tablets.

Epic and Nintendo want to break them to get benefited by putting their own store on Google, Apple, Sony and Nintendo hardware to sell games and services there without paying anything to the hardware makers. By doing that they'd heavily expand their userbase, which now is limited because in PC is Steam who has most of the market share and in consoles Xbox has a too small market share.

Yep that's the biggest reason why; they want the revenue from the userbase in those ecosystems while cutting the platform owners out of the equation. All the pro-consumer stuff they like to market along the way just feels like pretty ways to make that true ambition more palatable to the average gamer.

But it's kind of messed up considering companies like Nintendo and Sony need that software & subscription cut to offset the R&D and mass production costs (plus advertising and warranties) for their hardware. That's what separates consoles from PCs, smartphones etc. where the manufacturer already recoups profit off the hardware sales directly. Sony, Nintendo & Microsoft do that with peripherals, but that isn't anywhere near enough to cover the aforementioned costs with the main hardware.

I don't see how companies like Epic & Microsoft are successful in getting companies like Nintendo, Sony, or even Apple to open up their walled gardens in a way to where services like GamePass can exist without a software royalty cut to the platform holder of those devices. Because if the courts side with that, they'll also have to potentially consider removing the 30% software licensing cuts from console platform holders altogether, and that'll destroy the console business model outright. It'll also require companies like Microsoft to remove the developer licensing and Windows certification costs for apps on their own Windows OS.

It's enough of a slippery slope, in fact, that I wouldn't be surprised if some other software companies or data companies came out to try getting the subscription cost for things like Office ruled as anticompetitive since they could argue they are being charged for a necessity/utility required for functioning their business. The whole debate on this topic just runs a gauntlet of ridiculousness.

Sony's gaming revenue comes in a big part from the PSN store. So getting forced to allow other stores in PS hardware would hurt them. So pretty likely an important part of the job of this guy would be to fight against it. But if regulators force Sony to do it, pretty likely will mean that they will be also forcing Nintendo, Xbox, Google and Apple to do it, meaning Sony would be able to put their PSN store (and PS+) in all these platforms without having to pay anything to their hardware makers, which in the short term would be a pain in the ass, in the long term would mean good news for Sony because the PSN store would be reaching a way, way bigger audience.

From a player standpoint, it would mean to have more games and subscriptions in all consoles. In PS you'd end in the long term having at least PSN, Nintendo's eShop, Steam, XBL and the Epic Store (plus I assume EA and Ubi stores). And pretty likely in the long term this competition would also mean also having crossbuy between them all like with the Steamdeck: the games you bought in a platform, if available on the store of other platform you could also play them there at no extra cost.

I mean, I see those benefits, but at what cost? When I brought up vertical integration, I looked at it more from the development side of things. Software, especially 1P, that's able to fully utilize the technological features of the hardware not just out of an artistic drive (to try making the best games possible), but also a business drive, that can help that platform and its ecosystem stand out over competitors and drive attention (and money) towards them.

If the market is forced to adjust to what you suggest, yes there are some obvious benefits but I think there are some big drawbacks to that approach as well. Also IMO, a lot of these benefits can already be had with the way things are currently set up, it's just that companies bringing their services to other ecosystems may have to pay a tax, especially if it's something competing with the platform holder's.

Better believe if a company like Epic can get legislation to pass forcing walled garden platform ecosystem to openly allow competing services apps on their devices at no cost, they will try pushing for platform holders to rescind their 30% cut on 3P software sales as well. At that point, does the console model even still hold together?

I think with Lucid they should do like with Fabrik: to absorb them into Firesprite, where they have plenty of former Liverpool Studio, Evolution and Bizarre Creations staff, like in (a way smaller scale) Lucid.

Then Firesprite would deliver the brand new Motorstorm and Wipeout games I want. With a great and complete single player campaign, full VR support for the whole game, friendly+casual MP modes (maybe even team based one, and where you get points for everything making to end first not the only way to win) but also competitive eSports friendly ranked and tournament modes.

They could also be GaaS, meaning they'd have seasons adding free for everyone new game modes, new circuits, new teams, new music tracks, plus purchasable in a season pass -or unlockable by playing during that season- new vehicles, and not-gameplay-affecting/not-pay-to-win customizables for your vehicles.

Yes, that'd be a pretty solid outcome for Lucid, and Motorstorm (and Wipeout) definitely deserve to come back. Naturally I guess they'd be GaaS live-service offerings, but they should also make sure those games (if they ever got made) have the breadth and quality of content from Day 1 previous installments in the IPs had.

Don't just break up the main game and offer it piecemeal to the audience under the guise it's for a long term services-orientated focus. Look at what that particular approach has done to more or less kill Halo Infinite :S

Yeah what they did with the DMA is say that you had to have 50 million active users, as well as like 100k "business users."

Sony / Nintendo at least easily qualify for the first part, but I think the later would PROBABLY be calculated as "development companies" not "all the employees of development companies combined."

That's where this really only is going to apply to Apple/Google who have such a massive amount of devs that span so many areas.

But things can change, all it takes is a lawyer w/ some lobbying money from someone lol

Well let's kind of hope that lawyer fails hard; I'm worried what long-term implications that type of change being forced on console makers in particular would have, and what other things it could fundamentally shift business model-wise (like the percentage cut platform holders get from 3P software sales on their consoles).
 

Yurinka

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So that's how they do it. I appreciate the insight; basically if they wanted something like Take-Two it's more a question if they could justify provisioning the funds in the acquisitions budget to buy them. The point being, they have the money, it's just down to whether they feel the purchase would justify that cost. If they are feeling that way for whatever reason now, they'll have to wait until the next fiscal year.

But as you've pointed out, the whole of Sony needs that budget, not just the gaming division, so the needs of the other divisions play a part in deciding how acquisition (and other) funds are allocated.
You're welcome. We also have to consider that big ass acquisitions that cost billions normally take many months or even years of negotiations to agree the deal. And then take several months more of paperwork, regulator approvals, etc.

So imagine that today they decide that Take 2 is a good fit and after some time talking Take 2 decides they are interested to sell and that Sony is a good fit for them. Maybe around the end of this FY/start of the next one (if negotiations both with them and with the banks to get the loan don't take years) they have it decided and announce the acquisition for let's say $35B. A few weeks/months later in May, when announcing the FY report they announce that increase their acquisitions budget to let's say $55B. And during the next FY they close the acquisition and pay these $35B. I mean, they could do it for another FY but I find it almost impossible to see them spending on an acquisition $30B or more in the current FY.

I guess there is some sense for Bandai-Namco, but it doesn't seem like they're in a position where they'd need or want to sell the way, say, Square-Enix is looking. And Square-Enix brings a lot of the same benefits, outside of the toys thing, but I don't even know if the toys market is that big globally outside of the high-end figurines which tend to sell for big profit margins and are really cool collectibles. Does Bandai-Namco make toys of that type, or are they more the kind you'd find in like K-mart or Target's toy aisle?

I'm just guessing the toys market isn't as big or lucrative as it used to be outside of those high-end collectibles, the gaming market really ate into the appeal of the toys market for youth many years ago. Unless they're toys based on really big IP, which Sony have (Bandai-Namco have a few as well) but most of IP seem like they'd be better fit for the high-end collector figurines toy market where quantities are way smaller and prices much higher, but I'll assume Bandai-Namco have some presence in that part of the market as well.
Well, when I say toys, I don't mean cheap toys for kids only.

I mean a wide range of merchandising for anime, games, movies or even musicians: from these cool limited edition statues they have in places like comic-con or some comic stores, or that they include in the expensive collector editions of some games to action figures, to gunpla/model kits of mechas and vehicles from games, anime, movies and tv shows. Or even table top games using these IPs. Even board games or deck building games, or many other collectibles using these IPs.

Regarding its size, I don't know it because every article about it I saw included or missed some things. But as I remember Bandai Namco made around $2.7B in sales (up 24.2% YoY) and $382M (up 33.9% YoY) in profit with "toys and hobby" this FY and Lego made $7.5B (+27% YoY) in revenue and $2.3B (+32% YoY) in operating profit this fiscal year. We also should see it not only as an extra market to get more money, but also as marketing tool to use this merchandising made here to push sales and make more mainstream their IPs from games/movies/tv shows/anime or even musicians.

We also have to remember that in games, movies or music the physical sales are that digital and particularly streaming is eating this market, and which remains there are more focused in the collectors niche and merchandising, so would help them all in this area.

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I don't see how companies like Epic & Microsoft are successful in getting companies like Nintendo, Sony, or even Apple to open up their walled gardens in a way to where services like GamePass can exist without a software royalty cut to the platform holder of those devices. Because if the courts side with that, they'll also have to potentially consider removing the 30% software licensing cuts from console platform holders altogether, and that'll destroy the console business model outright. It'll also require companies like Microsoft to remove the developer licensing and Windows certification costs for apps on their own Windows OS.
Nintendo, Sony, Apple or Google wouldn't open walled gardens by themselves. This is why Epic tries in the courts to force them to open them and allow Epic have there (as of now they try it against Google and mostly Apple) their own store without having to pay them the 30% or without having to pass any approval from the manufacturer.

MS says Windows already is open to everyone have there their own game store without needing to pay MS anything and wants mobile and console manufacturers to do the same, and that they'd do it in Xbox too (which doesn't mean a shit because Xbox has a shitty market share in gaming, the biggest gaming market share is iOS and Android, and in consoles Sony and Nintendo have most of the market), so they supported Epic.

Obviously Epic and MS want this because it would benefit them. And Apple, Google, Sony and Nintendo don't want this because they are making a lot of money with their walled gardens and don't want to share that money with other stores.

I think there's no reason to break these walled gardens because there are many stores and platforms in gaming, that gaming market share is spread between many platforms, stores and companies, and that nobody has an insane market share or don't stop other ones to shine, specially companies big enough to have their own store like Epic.

But for devs and publishers it would be way better to pay way less than the 30%, and for players I think it would be better to have different stores in every device. I'd like to freely play my games that I got on PS, PS+, GP, eShop, Steam, Epic store, etc in PS, Switch, a tablet, PC etc. without having to pay a separate port in each platform.

Yes, that'd be a pretty solid outcome for Lucid, and Motorstorm (and Wipeout) definitely deserve to come back. Naturally I guess they'd be GaaS live-service offerings, but they should also make sure those games (if they ever got made) have the breadth and quality of content from Day 1 previous installments in the IPs had.

Don't just break up the main game and offer it piecemeal to the audience under the guise it's for a long term services-orientated focus. Look at what that particular approach has done to more or less kill Halo Infinite :S
Sure. In Firesprite (+Lucid if they absorve them) there are many former important Liverpool Studios and Evolution Studios former staff, plus many former staff from Bizarre Creations and in less quantity from many top AAA studios. I'm sure they'd make good enough Wipeout and Motorstorm games.

Regarding GaaS, I think that in addition to the knowledge from Bungie, they could also learn from their mistakes in Destruction All Stars and also from other racing games that did a better job with GaaS like Gran Turismo, The Crew, I assume Forza and I assume should be more there (plus non-racing GaaS titles).

I think many GaaS had that issue of lacking important and enough features and content day one, not only in racing. Hopefully they'd learn from that and would offer enough features and content at launch, enough to keep players happy. I remember cases like SFV, which was released very unpolished and lacking a lot of content. It was lucky and over time improved a lot and got a shit ton of content, but many other games did the same and died before they were able to fix them.
 
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peter42O

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Actually I kinda agree that NR would probably be more a fit with Microsoft than Sony. They would have some great sister studios in Coalition and iD Software, all three of them specialize in pretty gritty, violent action-heavy games, so I'm sure there are workflows, ideas and techniques they could share between one another. Sony doesn't really have that many studios of that flavor outside of arguably Naughty Dog.

And it's true lots of fighters are PS-only; honestly if Sony were interested in picking up a fighting dev team Arc System Works would fit them better than NetherRealm, but that's just me. Insofar as Bungie, gotta keep in mind $1.2 billion of that money was for retainer, so Sony've only really paid $2.4 billion. Which might seem too much for some people still; for me I think the price is about right.
I just looked up ASW since I wasn't sure about who they were but checking them on Wikipedia, it seems like they're mostly PlayStation exclusive and release more games on Windows PC than they do on Xbox. lol. Are their fighting games anywhere close to MK? Reason im asking is because if you get MK, still have SF and the rest of the fighting games as multi-platform minimum, they wouldn't need ASW and as a publisher, they would look at PlayStation as being the home for fighters so ASW wouldn't go anywhere. At worse, multi-platform.

$2.4B isn't bad for Bungie even though they offered to sell to Microsoft for $2B without a retainer and Microsoft passed because Bungie wanted to remain multi-platform which in all honesty, if im one of the big three, there's no way in hell im buying you and allowing you to stay multi-platform. Just no freaking way.
Sony have strong ties to Marvel, particularly for Spiderman, so yeah they don't have a "need" for DC in that way. As for MK surpassing SF, well, sales is one thing. SF obliterates MK when it comes to character designs, animations, special effects, and sexy female characters IMO 😁
I think both SF and MK are great in those areas. SF does have sexier female characters but only because NetherRealm was told to cover up the women which makes no sense to me but whatever.
Technically speaking, Sony could get NetherRealm to make a Marvel fighter if they by some chance bought them, that's true. But would it be good? Does NetherRealm have a connection or understanding with the Marvel characters the way they do the DC ones? And don't forget, a NetherRealm-made Marvel fighter's going to get directly compared to Capcom's MvC games. The last one shat the bed, but the others have been really good and MvC2 is considered the best crossover fighter by many people.

It'd be a high bar for NetherRealm to surpass and they'd also have to make sure whatever they do satisfies the MvC fans.
I agree completely but I do believe that NetherRealm are great enough to where they could adjust. The fighting itself is great in MK and Injustice. As long as they don't screw up the characters, I can easily see one hell of a fighting game.
The difference though is that Housemarque & especially Bluepoint have proven they can provide variety. Returnal was a big step forward for Housemarque compared to their previous games. Bluepoint have shown they can do full-on remakes for games in completely different genres, and do them successfully.

NetherRealm may have generated more revenue than both studios combined, but it's not just about money. They do fit with Sony's eSports plans handily, but again, so too would Arc System Works, and they'd be a lot cheaper pickup and probably cater more to a specific niche than NetherRealm.

Overall, I guess I see NetherRealm being more of a fit with Microsoft than Sony from a "stylistic" POV. If just looking at the money they can bring in, I can see why Sony would want them, if it comes with the MK and DC licenses. I personally would rather Sony focus on a few Japanese acquisitions if they're really still looking around, and if we're just talking one focused on fighting games and would be relatively easy to do (not to mention, avoid any console warring aneurysms), Arc System Works would be such a studio.
Housemarque definitely has a lot of variety and are a great development studio. Have loved them since Dead Nation and Outland. I agree here. With Bluepoint though, have they done their own games or just remasters/remakes? Reason im asking is because with remasters/remakes, the foundation is already there as opposed to making a brand new IP.

ASW would work well with Sony and for PlayStation but I don't see them being acquired by Microsoft or go to Xbox exclusively. Their bread and butter is on PlayStation where as Microsoft can't afford to lose NetherRealm to Sony and in turn, the fighting genre because vast majority of consumers would go with PlayStation. I see NetherRealm as a fit for both Sony and Microsoft. I only say Microsoft mainly because they can't afford to lose them to Sony.

Me personally, im not into fighting games anymore. I played/completed Injustice 1 and 2 as well as MK 10 and 11 but didn't play a fighting game since Super Street Fighter 2 on 3DO until last gen. So however this goes, it goes but both Sony and Microsoft should try to get NR and Sony should be aggressive as Microsoft isn't going to make any acquisitions until the ABK deal is closed.
 

Yurinka

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I just looked up ASW since I wasn't sure about who they were but checking them on Wikipedia, it seems like they're mostly PlayStation exclusive and release more games on Windows PC than they do on Xbox. lol. Are their fighting games anywhere close to MK? Reason im asking is because if you get MK, still have SF and the rest of the fighting games as multi-platform minimum, they wouldn't need ASW and as a publisher, they would look at PlayStation as being the home for fighters so ASW wouldn't go anywhere. At worse, multi-platform.
Tekken is the only one close to MK. Then goes SF, which like Tekken is key in eSports, where MK almost doesn't exist. ASW is way smaller than these ones with the exception of Dragon Ball FighterZ, which is betwen Tekken and SF thanks to its super top anime IP (Sony can provide top anime -or other- IPs) and Bandai Namco as publisher pushing its eSports (not as high as SFV and Tekken). SF not being exclusive and not having a shitty launch would easily be at the level of Tekken and MK.

Any acquisition would be great and would be highly benefited of being with Sony, only with their marketing push and having some extra budget they'd highly improve in sales and eSports.

they offered to sell to Microsoft for $2B without a retainer and Microsoft passed
Sounds like a total lie, specially considering Destiny 2 is Spencer's favorite game and that they had to handle Halo, their top IP, without Bungie. What is the source? Receipts, please.

because Bungie wanted to remain multi-platform
MS had no problem keeping multiplatform their post acquisition -or at tleast mostt- games from Mojang, Zenimax, Activision and so on. Why would they have any issue for doing the same with Bungie? Doesn't make sense.

With Bluepoint though, have they done their own games or just remasters/remakes?
Some of their key people did make the Metroid Prime games and other games at Retro. Plus have a ton of other staff who worked in a ton of different top games like Diablo II, WoW, Naughty Dog, Insomniac and many other top tier studios making top tier new games before going to Bluepoint to make remasters and remakes. They have a top tier staff even ignoring remakes and remasters.

ASW would work well with Sony and for PlayStation but I don't see them being acquired by Microsoft or go to Xbox exclusively. Their bread and butter is on PlayStation where as Microsoft can't afford to lose NetherRealm to Sony and in turn, the fighting genre because vast majority of consumers would go with PlayStation. I see NetherRealm as a fit for both Sony and Microsoft. I only say Microsoft mainly because they can't afford to lose them to Sony.
Yep, agree but I think Netherrealm would be a great fit to make Killer Instinct and not only MK. You also forget the publisher of Tekken, SoulCalibur, Dragon Ball FighterZ and others, which means the current top publisher in the genre.

Me personally, im not into fighting games anymore. I played/completed Injustice 1 and 2 as well as MK 10 and 11 but didn't play a fighting game since Super Street Fighter 2 on 3DO until last gen. So however this goes, it goes but both Sony and Microsoft should try to get NR and Sony should be aggressive as Microsoft isn't going to make any acquisitions until the ABK deal is closed.
Right now the most important publisher in fighting is Bandai Namco. But I'm pretty sure that in the following years SF6 will even top MK and Tekken and that there will be someone else who could beat them all with a F2P game: Riot, with their League of Legend fighting game. Even if only a tiny portion of their fanbase gets it, it may become the most successful fighting game ever.
 
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peter42O

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Tekken is the only one close to MK. Then goes SF, which like Tekken is key in eSports, where MK almost doesn't exist. ASW is way smaller than these ones with the exception of Dragon Ball FighterZ, which is betwen Tekken and SF thanks to its super top anime IP (Sony can provide top anime -or other- IPs) and Bandai Namco as publisher pushing its eSports (not as high as SFV and Tekken). SF not being exclusive and not having a shitty launch would easily be at the level of Tekken and MK.

Any acquisition would be great and would be highly benefited of being with Sony, only with their marketing push and having some extra budget they'd highly improve in sales and eSports.
Oh wow. So SF is 3rd? Damn. Didn't know Tekken was second. Of course, I don't follow the fighting genre scene so I don't know much in this area. SF 6 seems very promising outside of the horrible logo but if that ends up being the biggest issue, Capcom will have one hell of a major hit on their hands. Agree with the rest.
Sounds like a total lie, specially considering Destiny 2 is Spencer's favorite game and that they had to handle Halo, their top IP, without Bungie. What is the source? Receipts, please.
Grubb, Jez and others said this back in 2020 which was before Bungie started talking to Sony. I know majority here won't accept it as even a possibility but at the same time, PlayStation fans thought that Abandoned was Kojima and that Kojima working with Microsoft was bullshit but once you subtract favoritism and do research, you can connect the dots to pretty much anything.

Destiny 2 may be Spencer's favorite game but it's staying multi-platform so it's irrelevant and the issue was future games and IP. Already released/existing games stay as is but future games had to be exclusive and Bungie said no while Microsoft said no to multi-platform.

Me personally, I do believe this and normally believe this kind of stuff regardless of the company for one simple reason - it's business. And in business, you're going to do what you have to do to make as much money as possible and if you can make great deals, then why wouldn't you? Also, Bungie made great deals with Microsoft and Activision. Just recent made a great deal with Sony. Those who run Bungie know exactly what they're doing and it doesn't hurt to have leverage which you can only have if you're talking with other companies.
MS had no problem keeping multiplatform their post acquisition -or at tleast mostt- games from Mojang, Zenimax, Activision and so on. Why would they have any issue for doing the same with Bungie? Doesn't make sense.
If games have already been released, then yeah, they stay multi-platform. Microsoft isn't going to pull anything. But for future games and IP's, they will all be exclusive. Mojang was already big before Microsoft acquired them and wasn't going to pull Minecraft. Bethesda released two games - Deathloop and Tokyo - due to contracts which Microsoft wasn't going to contend because doing so would have been more hassle than it's worth. Plus, both games bombed sales wise and both will be forgotten once they get a little boost via Game Pass and that will be that. Redfall, Starfield and everything else Bethesda has will be fully exclusive to Xbox/PC/Cloud as they freaking should be.

ABK hasn't closed yet and Microsoft can't do anything until it does. ABK has a contract with Sony for at least two games when it comes to COD. Overwatch 2 will be released in the Fall which will be before the acquisition closes and while I believe they should wait on Diablo IV, they announced it years ago for PS4/XBO and recently added PS5/XSX/XSS. I personally would make this exclusive but again, could release before the acquisition closes which in that case, Microsoft will just let it go.

Once COD contracts end, I believe they skip a year and come back fully exclusive (again, as it should be) and are setup as a platform as I don't see Microsoft having 10+ studios or whatever the hell it is all working on COD. They will build one hell of a base game for current generation only, release it in Fall 2024 or 2025 and simply add to it for the rest of the generation.

If Microsoft releases a remaster of say Skyrim for the billionth time, then yes, PlayStation and well, everyone would get it. But new releases that have no contractual obligations tied to it will be fully exclusive to Xbox/PC/Cloud.

As for Bungie, Destiny 2 would have stayed as is but future games would have been exclusive which Bungie doesn't want and Sony has apparently agreed to that (which I disagree with but whatever) where as Microsoft didn't.

Microsoft isn't buying publishers or development studios to keep them multi-platform which would be fucking stupid beyond belief. Only games that were already released or have contracts will be multi-platform because it's not worth it for Microsoft to pull games when they can make free money off of them and too much hassle to break contracts. In this regard, it's just not worth it.

And in general, doesn't matter if it's Sony or Microsoft, PlayStation or Xbox. Fanboys need to put their favoritism aside and realize that ALL of these deals, talks, negotiations, etc. take place every freaking day. We just don't know about them all.
Some of their key people did make the Metroid Prime games and other games at Retro. Plus have a ton of other staff who worked in a ton of different top games like Diablo II, WoW, Naughty Dog, Insomniac and many other top tier studios making top tier new games before going to Bluepoint to make remasters and remakes. They have a top tier staff even ignoring remakes and remasters.
With the apparent disaster at Aspyr for the KOTOR Remake, I wonder if Sony works out something where Bluepoint works on the game since Sony is partially paying for development, to publish the game and for some sort of timed exclusivity which if I remember correctly was said to be a year. Don't know what Bluepoint is doing now but if im Jimbo, im calling Embracer tomorrow.
Yep, agree but I think Netherrealm would be a great fit to make Killer Instinct and not only MK. You also forget the publisher of Tekken, SoulCalibur, Dragon Ball FighterZ and others, which means the current top publisher in the genre.
I definitely do forget about Bandai Namco. When it comes to fighting games, I always think MK/SF or vice versa. I never think of anything else.
Right now the most important publisher in fighting is Bandai Namco. But I'm pretty sure that in the following years SF6 will even top MK and Tekken and that there will be someone else who could beat them all with a F2P game: Riot, with their League of Legend fighting game. Even if only a tiny portion of their fanbase gets it, it may become the most successful fighting game ever.
Well, this will definitely be interesting to see play out over the years to come.
 
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I just found Epic is valued at $31.5B:

Bullshit, what I say it's true.
Nothing you said is true. You have a preschool understanding of things. You don't know what the numbers truly mean or how to interpret the numbers. It's a problem many have

Like I already explained to you:

Market cap means little to nothing. Youre talking about this "must pay premium above cap" bullshit because that's what you heard on forums from xbox fans, and now you parrot it to sound like you know what that actually means. Everyone has access to info now, so everyone can repeat info, but very rarely will they have actual experience in the real world with that info to know what that info means, or to know how things truly work

Again, market cap means little to nothing.

Some companies have sold for way less than their cap. Do you even know what a cap is and how it's "calculated?"

And companies aren't just bought with straight cash. That again shows ignorance

Sony can buy T2 with a mix of cash and stock WITH complete and utter EASE

Go tell Sony's team, the best of the best, that they can't afford to buy T2, and than watch them laugh at you and mock you for buying into that non sense

An aquisition occurs when 2 companies AGREE TO A DEAL AND THE SET OF TERMS WHICH WERE NEGOTIATED. A deal can encompass ANYTHING. It's not a 1 blanket size fits all for every deal etc.

Very rarely does market cap or pure cash ever matter

Ive shown you this with facts and data, plenty. But you ignore it. People like you can't be helped. You're arrogant in your ignorance. You need to help yourself first. But just realise that people who actually are in the stock market and know how it works laugh

And just go listen to the very president of Sony Movies, where he says Playstation will be their main driver for aquistions - and how gaming is their main focus. He said the biggest sector where they can keep expanding is in gaming. Most of that budget is for Playstation and you know it. That's what the facts are pointing toward. But youre blind to any reality which you don't like - you only see what you want to see, and that makes you no better than an xbot in that regard. The only company who Sony would probably struggle to buy, or take a bigger hit than they would like to, in order to buy, is EA.

Again, maybe it will take repetition for it to register. Market cap means little, and cash isn't the only way to buy. If Sony has a 30billion dollar aquistion budget in cash alone (mostly for Playstation), than they are capable of buying much larger than that number. Sony doesn't just have tons of cash, and mad cash reserves (in trusts), they have tons of assets, and very low debt to get any loans they want. Please educate yourself and stop spewing this preschool level understanding. You aren't fooling anyone who's actually into stocks or who knows about Sony as a company
 
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