OP
OP
Don’t overlook that last Gen will end eventually, but Series S will be here for the entirety of the current Gen.
Unreal Engine 5.1 now 60fps on Next Gen Console with Lumen, Nanite, and Virtual Shadow Maps
- Thread starter Shmunter
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peter42O
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I'm fully aware of that and I don't see Series S holding anything back especially once all the resolution techniques come into play because why waste resources on native resolution when you can go lower, get equal or better image quality and save the resources for frame rates and other aspects.
This new scalability level is detailed in UE 5.1 docs and says exactly what I quoted.
That is why you need to read more than just the release notes… the new scalability mode is called High.
I’m really curious to see a comparison between Epic and High to understand what they mean with not “acceptable quality” yet.
Edit - I just got a reply on Beyond3D from Alex…
Dictator said:I think is in reference the current "high" scalability. High drastically cuts Lumen GI and Reflection quality to bring performance up (so as to attempt to target 60 fps on consoles).
1/16th res of 1080p internal resolution for lighting is not exactly going to look good for a lot of things.
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OP
OP
I guess we can take comfort in the “work in progress”. Gives indication there is more that can be done yet.
It’s also reassuring that 60fps is not being taken for granted even with this high end rendering engine. They want it all.
The Series S isn't affecting the direction of games in any capacity. Don't listen to any of these people, it's complete nonsense.
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peter42O
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I know. The funny part is that Series S has nothing to do with PlayStation 5 yet somehow games like Gotham Knights and/or A Plague Tale Requiem are somehow affected by it. It's quite comical.
I will give you an example... not mine... from a old Game Developer Conference.
"Another problem with having a large variety of hardware is that the video game developer cannot reliably predict a user's personal set-up. This lack of information means that a game can not be easily tailored to exploit the strengths and circumvent the weaknesses of a particular system. For example, if all PC's had hard-drives that were all equally very fast, then a game could be created that relied on having a fast hard-drive. Similarly, if all PC's had equally slow hard-drives, but had a lot of memory, then a game could compensate for the lack of hard-drive speed through various techniques, such as caching data in RAM or pre-loading data into RAM. Likewise, if all PC's had fast hard-drives, and not much memory, then the hard-drive could compensate for the lack of much memory by keeping most of the game on the hard-drive, and only spooling in data as needed."
If you have to make your game to run in both the minimum specs and max specs you are already compromising the max spec target.
You could (if you have money and time) to code specific features for the max spec but these will be a plus because the game were designed to work on minimum specs and not to "tailored to exploit the strengths and circumvent the weaknesses of a particular system".
If a talented team you choose today to develop a game focused only in RTX 4090 with best Intel CPU in the market the result will be something jaw dropping with the best of PC can offer.
That won't happen (because you will limit your user base to bare minimum and not get the sales to cover the budget of the project) and the minimum specs will continue holding the top hardware on PC to be proper utilized.
But somehow you guys believes it is different in multiplatform development for consoles lol
I have no issue in say that the amazing game released last week (God of War Ragnarok) was very limited to PS4 hardware to the point that PS5 is being sub-utilized running it while that Xbox fans dreams that Series S doesn't limit Series X and PS5 development
I do support exclusive development... and more I support that developers choose to increase drastically the minimum specs target for their PC games... I want evolution and not stay years being limited due lower specs hardware.... why not do a new Crysis on PC? Shake the market... push for higher specs.
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peter42O
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I will give you an example... not mine... from a old Game Developer Conference.
"Another problem with having a large variety of hardware is that the video game developer cannot reliably predict a user's personal set-up. This lack of information means that a game can not be easily tailored to exploit the strengths and circumvent the weaknesses of a particular system. For example, if all PC's had hard-drives that were all equally very fast, then a game could be created that relied on having a fast hard-drive. Similarly, if all PC's had equally slow hard-drives, but had a lot of memory, then a game could compensate for the lack of hard-drive speed through various techniques, such as caching data in RAM or pre-loading data into RAM. Likewise, if all PC's had fast hard-drives, and not much memory, then the hard-drive could compensate for the lack of much memory by keeping most of the game on the hard-drive, and only spooling in data as needed."
If you have to make your game to run in both the minimum specs and max specs you are already compromising the max spec target.
You could (if you have money and time) to code specific features for the max spec but these will be a plus because the game were designed to work on minimum specs and not to "tailored to exploit the strengths and circumvent the weaknesses of a particular system".
If a talented team you choose today to develop a game focused only in RTX 4090 with best Intel CPU in the market the result will be something jaw dropping with the best of PC can offer.
That won't happen (because you will limit your user base to bare minimum and not get the sales to cover the budget of the project) and the minimum specs will continue holding the top hardware on PC to be proper utilized.
But somehow you guys believes it is different in multiplatform development for consoles lol
I have no issue in say that the amazing game released last week (God of War Ragnarok) was very limited to PS4 hardware to the point that PS5 is being sub-utilized running it while that Xbox fans dreams that Series S doesn't limit Series X and PS5 development
I do support exclusive development... and more I support that developers choose to increase drastically the minimum specs target for their PC games... I want evolution and not stay years being limited due lower specs hardware.... why not do a new Crysis on PC? Shake the market... push for higher specs.
Only problem with this argument is that the vast majority of PC gamers are still running a 1060 GPU and a standard HDD thus, all the development studios would still have to account for this and have to optimize for a shit ton of variations on PC yet if you have the high end cards, you get the far better version of the game. All the consoles are x86. There's no difference. And even if you want to say RAM on Series S, that still doesn't affect the other platforms like PC or PS5. It would only affect Xbox Series. And when you see plenty of third party games running at 60fps on Series S, it's not on the console. It's on the studios and publishers making the games. Also, Series S has 10GB of GDDR6 RAM while last gen had 8GB of lesser capable RAM. Sorry, but I will never see the consoles as the reason for any issues because as always, the further you get into the generation, the better and more impressive games you get.
Only part of last gen had lesser capable ram.
Xbox One X - 12GB of GDDR5 RAM @ 6.8GHz w/ 326 GB/s bandwidth
Xbox Series S - 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM @ 224 GB/s, 2GB @ 56 GB/s
Yes, and one was targeting 4K which capacity and bandwidth is very important, the other is targeting "1440p" (1080p) where they're not so the argument is moot.
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peter42O
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Series S is GDDR6 and combined with the tech in the console makes it superior to Xbox One X. You guys are grasping at straws with literally no legs to stand on. How PS5 which is completely unrelated to Xbox Series consoles can somehow be held back because of the other brand's lesser console makes no sense at all. Even more so, once all the resolution techniques gets implemented into the current generation consoles, the so called weaked Series S isn't going to matter. Going based on believing that Series S holds back games and PS5 somehow, then explain how the 2013 Xbox One didn't hold back PS4 because going based on what you guys believe, then it would have already happened a generation ago yet it didn't. But whatever, you guys are so full of hatred for Microsoft and Xbox, that instead of perhaps enjoying the platform and the games, you all rather just find ways to bash both and believe that the weaker console which isn't for hardcore gamers by the way is somehow going to hold back games for this generation.
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peter42O
Guest
This too. The only negative to Series S is they should have marketed it as a pure 1080p console so any games that hit higher resolutions would have been seen as over-performing instead of under-performing. The main part is that Series S is for casuals. Not hardcore gamers. Excluding Gotham Knights every third party game I have played was at 60fps with usually dynamic resolution on my Series X so Series S isn't holding anything back for me.
Wait.
Being GDDR6 or GDDR5 doesn’t make any difference for this case. GDDR5 @ 326GB/s is faster than GDDR6 @ 224GB/s.
The peak speeds for GDDR6 is higher than GDDR5 but Series S is no where using peak speeds lol
MS is using GDDR6 @ 224GB/s instead GDDR5 @ 224GB/s probably due costs… it is probably cheaper because you can use the same memory controller used in the Series X… performance and tech wise it should make no difference between them.
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peter42O
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It's slower but when combined with all the other tech in the box, it doesn't matter. Plus, Xbox has barely if at all used any of the other tech in the box which will make up for slower speed in Series S. Either way, it doesn't matter because im getting superior versions on Series X which shows that Series S isn't holding anything back which in turn also means that Play Station 5 isn't being held back by it which is completely nonsensical to begin with when they're both different platforms.
It is the opposite games are being limited by lower specs hardware this generation… the superior version you seem to believe to be could be way superior but it is not because the lower specs.
Spec wise both Series X and PS5 should be delivering better than what they actually delivery… we are in the middle of the generation and games still looks like an enhancement of last generation and not what is suppose to be next-gen.
GDDR6 has double the transfer rate of GDDR5, lower power draw, better latency, faster access times...
Bandwidth isn't the end all be all of memory.
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peter42O
Guest
But 95% of games are cross-generation so if anything, last generation would be holding back this generation and yet, it's not. GOWR was mentioned earlier as being held back but we'll see what happens with Spider Man 2. I'm not expecting a revolutionary game. Will it be amazing? Absolutely but I think people are expecting games to be revolutionary when in reality, everyone should be expecting games to be an evolution. Same games as last generation, just better across the board.
We're not even close to the middle. Generation is going eight years minimum so we're only 25% of the way through. We have a long ways to go. I personally have no issues thus far with this generation. Excluding two games, the other 23 on my list have been or will be 60fps, I get ultra fast loading times and just a better overall performance compared to last generation. Two years in, this generation has already surpassed last generation for me thus far and the rest of the generation overall would have to be complete shit for that to happen.
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Deleted member 13
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We need to get away from the myth that consoles can perform like high end GPUs and the developers just haven't had time to figure it out yet. It's just not realistic. You aren't getting a 3090/4090 performance with all the graphics options (native 4k,60FPS, DLSS, RTGI, RTshadows, RT ambient occlusion, 16x anisotropic texture filtering, Nanite geometry, full blown hair with self-shadowing, virtual texturing of 4k texture maps, etc.. etc..) you want for $500. Sorry the world doesn't work that way (high quality things for cheap). You want a 2k diamond ring for $1000 instead of $10,000. Not going to happen.
