[VGC] Neil Druckmann says new Naughty Dog title could ‘redefine mainstream perceptions of gaming’

[Darth Vader]

It's still a cover shooter with the obvious combat arenas and chest high walls between sections of walking&talking and auto platforming/simple puzzles.

Well, Metal Gear Solid is a recycling simulator then, considering you can hide in cardboard boxes.

 

[Evilnemesis8]

It's definitely a bigger story.

What do you think is the "true" story?

 

[Would_you_kindly]

This fucker just loves the smell of his own farts doesn't he

 

[mibu no ookami]

What do you think is the "true" story?

I don't know. It largely defies logic.

So many options involved other than just canceling the game.

I mean most people like to pretend like all of naughty dog was working on this game but we know that was never true, but it's established as a primary reason why we haven't seen naughty dog games yet this gen, despite them just releasing a game in 2020 at the same time as Sucker Punch, but no one treats Sucker Punch the same way.

I digress, the answer given for why it was canceled doesn't make sense.

They could have released it as free multiplayer for TLOU P1 and/or TLOUP2 or even as a 10 dollar DLC.
They could have farmed out the development of the game to another studio.
They could have built out the studio to handle the GaaS on top of the traditional development.

I think the game probably ran into some serious issues with size and scope and Naughty Dog didn't want to give it additional resources and they wanted to focus on what they were good at. We all saw reports that Bungie was concerned about the long term monetization of the game, but there had to be more to it than that.

 

[Yobo]

This fucker just loves the smell of his own farts doesn't he

As he should. The second most accomplished game director of the past decade

 

[John Elden Ring]

I one hope this game has a trans main character with multi-coloured hair. Probably someone that's African or Asian descendant but with the game being set in Alaska.

I have no problems with it as long as it's done right. A good example is Hogwarts Legacy (albeit the historical setting is super incorrect), but knowing Naughty Dog this won't be the case whatsoever.

 

[Gediminas]

Don't be oblivious. The core of the game is the same as on the 7th gen, even if it had refinements in animation and some combat mechanics.

It's still a cover shooter with the obvious combat arenas and chest high walls between sections of walking&talking and auto platforming/simple puzzles.

That's like saying gears 5 is an entirely different game due to some semi open world on it. Still the same shit as in 2006 but refined.

all games has a Core. all games are made with core pillars. every game you like we can tear apart with Core excuses.

gears 5 was mid game, if they make it the same, it still would be mid game.
but, i know, wild concept, if they refine more the gameplay, the story, set pieces, animations, story, music, controls, better design. automatically Gear 6 wouldn't be mid.
and it is automatically pushes medium forward to show what is possible within games. Why do you think TLoU 2 won over 300 awards and devs looking up to them?

 

[Yobo]

I have no problems with it as long as it's done right. A good example is Hogwarts Legacy (albeit the historical setting is super incorrect), but knowing Naughty Dog this won't be the case whatsoever.

Naughty Dog have already done a trans character and did it super well

 

[Would_you_kindly]

As he should. The second most accomplished game director of the past decade

According to you

 

[Danja]

Everyone dissing Neil and they'll still be lined up for the next Naughty Dog game

 

[Evilnemesis8]

I don't know. It largely defies logic.

So many options involved other than just canceling the game.

I mean most people like to pretend like all of naughty dog was working on this game but we know that was never true, but it's established as a primary reason why we haven't seen naughty dog games yet this gen, despite them just releasing a game in 2020 at the same time as Sucker Punch, but no one treats Sucker Punch the same way.

Not everyone was working on the game, but it's undeniable that at least half of the studio was.
We now know through the newest documentary that TLoU Part III was not worked on in any meaningful capacity.
Most of the 2020-2021~ was when the next Naughty Dog IP was in the conceptual phase and then pre-production.
Almost everyone else was on TLoU Online.

I digress, the answer given for why it was canceled doesn't make sense.

They could have released it as free multiplayer for TLOU P1 and/or TLOUP2 or even as a 10 dollar DLC.
They could have farmed out the development of the game to another studio.

They could have built out the studio to handle the GaaS on top of the traditional development.

Let's be real those options are almost never considered for a studio/publisher.

Option #1 is laughable, does damage to the brand.
Releasing an unfinished and inferior product when you were promising the moon to players is a dumb idea.
Publishers in video games, movies, etc... All keep a vault of content that will never see the light of day because they deem it subpar garbage. Even though millions of fans online will moan that it's unfair that art is being kept from them.

Option #2 has happened a few times in the past, a prestigious entity would think twice before doing that.
A lot of "my way or the highway" type of thinking.

Option #3 They could've. But would SIE allow even more resources into the pit?
This is doubtful considering they were already planning to reduce costs and looking into layoffs at this point in time.
We also know they've begun aggressively axing a few GaaS other projects as well, realizing that many there a few too many bets being thrown around.

I think the game probably ran into some serious issues with size and scope and Naughty Dog didn't want to give it additional resources and they wanted to focus on what they were good at. We all saw reports that Bungie was concerned about the long term monetization of the game, but there had to be more to it than that.

But that's exactly what was said if you know how to read between the lines though?
They literally said it would've come at the cost of what they're known for.

And we know how they were talking a big game about the game being even more ambitious than TLoU Part II with the usual GaaS but also story content being part of the experience.
Knowing what we know about Naughty Dog and feature creep and scoping(Uncharted 4 and TLoU Part II all saw 1+ year of internal delays) it is the least surprising thing ever.

I thought when you said you there was a "bigger story" you meant some real shit.
Feature creep and scope problems killing projects happen to large games every month.
The only difference is that we don't publicly hear about 90% of those.

 

[Ico]

my perceptions of gaming will be shattered when he releases the first remaster of a remaster

 

[mibu no ookami]

Not everyone was working on the game, but it's undeniable that at least half of the studio was.

Citation please.

We now know through the newest documentary that TLoU Part III was not worked on in any meaningful capacity.

Who mentioned anything about TLOU3? We know Neil wasn't working on TLOU Online and we know he was working on an original IP.

Most of the 2020-2021~ was when the next Naughty Dog IP was in the conceptual phase and then pre-production.
Almost everyone else was on TLoU Online.

Again, please cite where everyone was working on TLOU online

Let's be real those options are almost never considered for a studio/publisher.

Option #1 is laughable, does damage to the brand.
Releasing an unfinished and inferior product when you were promising the moon to players is a dumb idea.
Publishers in video games, movies, etc... All keep a vault of content that will never see the light of day because they deem it subpar garbage. Even though millions of fans online will moan that it's unfair that art is being kept from them.

Who said it was unfinished? You have no idea what state the game was in. There is a big difference between a GaaS game not going forward and a multiplayer mode.

Option #2 has happened a few times in the past, a prestigious entity would think twice before doing that.
A lot of "my way or the highway" type of thinking.

Sony has plenty of studios that need work i.e. Bend

Option #3 They could've. But would SIE allow even more resources into the pit?
This is doubtful considering they were already planning to reduce costs and looking into layoffs at this point in time.
We also know they've begun aggressively axing a few GaaS other projects as well, realizing that many there a few too many bets being thrown around.

Depends on what made it a pit. Look at the successful of Helldivers 2. Would Sony want that from an internal team? Obviously.

But that's exactly what was said if you know how to read between the lines though?
They literally said it would've come at the cost of what they're known for.

See above. There is a difference between saying, this would change us as a studio vs the game was trash. I think it would have needed to be trash to be completely wiped clean with no reclamation. They literally did a half assed free DLC.

And we know how they were talking a big game about the game being even more ambitious than TLoU Part II with the usual GaaS but also story content being part of the experience.
Knowing what we know about Naughty Dog and feature creep and scoping(Uncharted 4 and TLoU Part II all saw 1+ year of internal delays) it is the least surprising thing ever.

Again, this is assumption, which is my point. I want to hear the actual story some day.

I thought when you said you there was a "bigger story" you meant some real shit.
Feature creep and scope problems killing projects happen to large games every month.
The only difference is that we publically hear about 90% of those.

Bigger story doesn't have to be 5 people were murdered during the design of the game.

 

[Yobo]

According to you

3 GOTYs for last 3 attempts

Sorry you're in denial. Only Miyazaki comes out ahead in the past decade

 

[Evilnemesis8]

Citation please.

I don't need a citation, well over a hundred MP positions were filled between 2020-2022.
As a fan of Factions I was constantly looking at their hiring page and saw in real time which of them were being filled and when new roles were being added.

Neil himself said it was the most ambitious game, even moreso than The Last of Us Part II. At the height of development, The Last of Us Part II was at 350.

Naughty Dog is around 450~ at the moment.

It completely reasonable to say that 200-250~ people were working on Factions before they iced the project before cancelling it a few months later. Note that to churn out content, a GaaS game usually grows in size instead of shrink post-launch. They've could hit that number had they continued with the project.

Who mentioned anything about TLOU3? We know Neil wasn't working on TLOU Online and we know he was working on an original IP.

I mentioned TLoU Part 3 because some people online wanted to downplay how many people were working on the game because of the "We're working on two new SP experiences for you guys".

We know, it's only really 1 of the SP project that was requiring any substantial staff.

Again, please cite where everyone was working on TLOU online

I don't think this is exactly what I said there,everyone was working on TLoU Online?
In this quote of mine, I said that part of the studio was working on the new IP, but that the rest was working on Factions. Is that somehow not accurate?

My apologies if I wasn't precise enough with what I meant

Who said it was unfinished? You have no idea what state the game was in. There is a big difference between a GaaS game not going forward and a multiplayer mode.

Most multiplayer games are playable for years before they ship, and yet not one of them releases. Like, the gamer in me is pretty mad about that. But I can't deny it's how the industry operates.

It was unfinished by what they consider fit to ship.

Depends on what made it a pit. Look at the successful of Helldivers 2. Would Sony want that from an internal team? Obviously.

They would, but one is Naughty Dog with employees costing an arm and a leg with California salaries and the other one is Arrowhead which spent a lot of years working on Helldivers 2 at sub-100 employees.

Bigger story doesn't have to be 5 people were murdered during the design of the game.

No but it could've be something more "juicy" like Neil Druckmann wielding his great power and forcing the cancellation of TLoU Online so he could take the staff to begin work on his magnum opus TLoU Part III in which he gets the first 100 OC game and becomes the best there ever was.

Or something like that, I've seen that theory online in certain circles. You know the ones.

 

[Petekilla]

This talentless no hack Kojima from wish.com will give us another trite game. Why they didn't fire this guy till now boggles my mind. We are going to get another movie with watered down gameplay

Funny how you say this, yet you think Alan Wake 2 is a top 10 game this Gen. Lol

 

[KvallyX]

Is it going to be a cuckold simulation?

I would pay $69.99 for that. Would it be in PSVR?

 

[Would_you_kindly]

3 GOTYs for last 3 attempts

Sorry you're in denial. Only Miyazaki comes out ahead in the past decade

Crediting Neil for uncharted 4 is stupid it was a great game despite him wanting to ruin it

 

[Vertigo]

Hopefully the first hour into the game won’t go full on cringe like TLOU2. Game found it more important to tell me the Asian dude got dumped for a chick instead of something actually interesting.

Hopefully it’s not more lame ass cover shooter gameplay. Cover shooters need to go extinct asap.

 

[Petekilla]

Kojima levels of arrogance I see. Kojima pushed the medium forward at least so he has the chops to back it up. This guy with his Oscar bait cover shooters on the other hand...

That “Oscar bait cover shooter” got turned into an Emmy winning tv show that became the #1 show in tv and big in pop culture.