Why PS would probably never make a true portable console.

[historia]

A lot of people seems to take the Project Q device as a dumb move, thinking Sony should make a portable device that take advantage of the PS4 library and unique handheld games.

For once, Q device costs Sony probably next to nothing. They could price it as low as 99 USD, the screen, the SoC processor and a Dualsense, and still make profit. This seem more like a move to move Dualsense parts inventory, which I suspected they go overboard with orders .Even if Q bombs, Sony would probably move some Dualsense parts inventory already. So no R&D costs, probably find an good audience.

About the PS Portable device that can play PS4 games, it impossible. First concern is the memory bandwidth constraint, Sony can only opt to use LPDDR5, which is significant slower than GDDR5(51.2 GB/s vs 176 GB/s). No amount of L3 cache can save that. Also battery is a huge importance for handheld, if they opt to use x86 for compatibility with PS4 then battery would be a huge issue, if they go with then they have to spend money on R&D for BC by emulation which would cost even more. Either way it is not worth it.

They would also have to share resources for development between 2 platforms. PSP works because of great third party support, but seem like nowadays third party devs take their time with big projects that costs big dev time than smaller projects/big projects simultaneously. Compared to Nintendo Switch, which has first party support that dedicated for handheld purpose, then third party could take advantage of huge units sold.

 

[Nhomnhom]

Making terrible products like the Project Q (a product so bad they are afraid to show) sure sounds like a great way to be destroyed by Valve/PC/Nintendo in the long run. That is not how PlayStation got where it is.

There is nothing impossible about a portable PS4 when we already have similar or even better hardware on the market. It's just coping to say companies like Asus and Valve can do it but Sony can't. Why would it even need to run PS4 native games at this point when all their games are getting ported to PC anyway? Why not make a PC storefront then? Valve has done most of the work already.

People seem to be too shortsighted, what happens when SteamOS gets smoothed out and made available to other manufactures and then suddenly PlayStation has to go against a similar product that has a much bigger library, free online multiplayer, more aggressive pricing on software, more varied price points?

PlayStation biggest luck is how incompetent MS was to leverage Windows to dominate console and portable gaming, they somehow were drastically slower than Valve spending a decade preparing Linux for it.

Sony read of the market that dedicated portable devices were not important enough was completely wrong.

 

[historia]

Making terrible products like the Project Q (a product so bad they are afraid to show) sure sounds like a great way to be destroyed by Valve/PC/Nintendo in the long run. That is not how PlayStation got where it is.

There is nothing impossible about a portable PS4 when we already have similar or even better hardware on the market.

People seem to be too shortsighted, what happens when SteamOS gets smoothed out and made available to other manufactures and then suddenly PlayStation has to go against a similar product that has a much bigger library, free online multiplayer, more aggressive pricing on software.

PlayStation biggest luck is how incompetent MS is to leverage Windows to dominate console and portable gaming, they somehow were drastically slower than Valve doing it using Linux.

X86 handheld gaming device is a nichier market than people make it out to be. Not to mention battery and thermal is atrocious.
Nintendo sold more Switch in a month than all x86 handheld combined in 3 years.

The future of all handheld devices, including laptops is ARM, not x86. We have yet to figure out software emulation to run x86 applications on ARM devices, only Apple can figure it out right now and the performance is still only in acceptable range, which the layer still have many incompatibility problems. You want to know how much money Apple pump into it, probably close to market cap of Nintendo.

 

[Nhomnhom]

X86 handheld gaming device is a nichier market than people make it out to be. Not to mention battery and thermal is atrocious.
Nintendo sold more Switch in a month than all x86 handheld combined in 3 years.

The future of all handheld devices, including laptops is ARM, not x86. We have yet to figure out software emulation to run x86 applications on ARM devices, only Apple can figure it out right now and the performance is still only in acceptable range, which the layer still have many incompatibility problems.

For now. It's in the very early days, Steam Deck only had a single version released. The proof of concept is there now. I really don't get how Sony can't see it.

If the future is ARM then go after that, port the games to ARM instead of x86, maybe work together with Apple or Google to make that happen.

Valve will definitely pivot to ARM when the time comes, good on them on being a lot more proactive than Sony.

 

[historia]

For now. It's in the very early days, Steam Deck only had a single version released. The proof of concept is there now. I really don't get how Sony can't see it.

If the future is ARM then go after that, port the games to ARM instead of x86, maybe work together with Apple or Google to make that happen.

Valve will definitely pivot to ARM when the time comes, good on them on being a lot more proactive than Sony.

Porting the games to ARM would require every single devs to do it themselves, so out of like 3000-4000 games.

If they decides to go with software compability layer, PS4 API based on BSD, which lacks dynamic library for ARM hardware. They can use a compatibility layer to convert to Vulkan, which also lack a 3D accelerator driver, which they have to built themselves.

Or they can build software emulation into ARM, which should be easier because they have all the blueprints, but will run into incompatible issues, in both performance as well as lacking textures, effects,...

If they needs assistance, probably Nvidia can be the only one who can help, but they tends to screw over their partners. Apple is stingy so not in a million years will they share their tech, and AMD is millions years behind both in ARM

 

[Systemshock2023]

Sony would have to step down from the graphics arms race if they want to release a successful portable. It would be an absolute 180 compared to the output of games Sony is releasing now. Also Sony fans would never accept something like that.

I'll be down, the whole industry requires to slow it down with the graphics a bit and focus on fundamentals.

 

[historia]

Sony would have to step down from the graphics arms race if they want to release a successful portable. It would be an absolute 180 compared to the output of games Sony is releasing now. Also Sony fans would never accept something like that.

I'll be down, the whole industry requires to slow it down with the graphics a bit and focus on fundamentals.

They would need Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Mario of course. You can't pump out 100 games that is creative and beat those giant franchises, even Pokemon at its lowest quality still sells most copies ever

 

[ethomaz]

I believe Vita showed they can't support two platforms.
And without 1st-party and 3rd-party support any platform will be dead.

Remember that even making a deal for a BioShock game for Vita it never become a game because it is too much time and $$$ for console developers to convert or make games for a portable platform.

Nintendo realized that.
So they choose to make a unique platform... two platforms doesn't work (see Wii U and 3DS... only one will be sucessful).

 

[Nhomnhom]

If they decides to go with software compability layer, PS4 API based on BSD, which lacks dynamic library for ARM hardware. They can use a compatibility layer to convert to Vulkan, which also lack a 3D accelerator driver, which they have to built themselves.

Or they can build software emulation into ARM, which should be easier because they have all the blueprints, but will run into incompatible issues, in both performance as well as lacking textures, effects,...

If they needs assistance, probably Nvidia can be the only one who can help, but they tends to screw over their partners. Apple is stingy so not in a million years will they share their tech, and AMD is millions years behind both in ARM

I don't remember Valve looking for excuses on why not to do something like the Steam Deck.

Sony is already porting all their games to PC like I said, they have plenty of options, they could go with a PS4 like hardware or Linux PC with their own storefront like Valve. Both solutions would work. ARM hardware was a restriction you came up with, if they believe in that then it's on them to fix it.

There are plenty of Apple ARM devices out there without proper gaming software, Sony could've also ported their games to those devices when working on all these recent PC ports. BG3 will release for the M1/M2 Macs if I'm not mistaken.

What I find funny is that I know that most if not all the people here coming up with excuses would be praising Sony if they had come up with any sort of native solution just like some here shameless started to praise the Project Q. Sad. So it's "impossible" or not "worth it" just because Sony hasn't done it.

 

[BroodCorp]

A dedicated PlayStation handheld needs a Game Gear or similarly tiered product to make it look better. When lined up against only Nintendo it’s laughable how the two stack up.

 

[historia]

I don't remember Valve looking for excuses on why not to do something like the Steam Deck.

Sony is already porting all their games to PC like I said, they have plenty of options, they could go with a PS4 like hardware or Linux PC with their own storefront like Valve. Both solutions would work. ARM hardware was a restriction you came up with, if they believe in that then it's on them to fix it.

There are plenty of Apple ARM devices out there without proper gaming software, Sony could've also ported their games to those devices when working on all these recent PC ports. BG3 will release for the M1/M2 Macs if I'm not mistaken.

What I find funny is that I know that most if not all the people here coming up with excuses would be praising Sony if they had come up with any sort of native solution just like some here shameless started to praise the Project Q. Sad. So it's "impossible" or not "worth it" just because Sony hasn't done it.

Deck is just a Linux PC than comes conveniently comes Wine compatibility layer to play games. The software is already 90% available, 10% is their work on Holo OS for the UX. Also Steam Deck is not well design at all, it is big and chunky and I think it is not really mass consumer graded products.

Also Apple would rather blow up their HQ then allowing some other company to install MacOS on other devices.

 

[Systemshock2023]

Steam deck is a beast, it just needs worldwide distribution to explode in sales. Plenty of folks would end up using it for basic computing tasks alongside gaming.

It would kill a lot of tablets and laptops. HDMI out, a portable keyboard and you are good to go.

 

[FatKaz]

Steam deck is a beast, it just needs worldwide distribution to explode in sales. Plenty of folks would end up using it for basic computing tasks alongside gaming.

It would kill a lot of tablets and laptops. HDMI out, a portable keyboard and you are good to go.

You can't be serious?

 

[historia]

Steam deck is a beast, it just needs worldwide distribution to explode in sales. Plenty of folks would end up using it for basic computing tasks alongside gaming.

It would kill a lot of tablets and laptops. HDMI out, a portable keyboard and you are good to go.

Nah. It has an relative good APU, but I could get a NUC for cheaper, more reliable too.

 

[Systemshock2023]

You can't be serious?

Why? Even high end phones are designed to be used as an alternative to computers with dedicated desktop modes.

Valve sells a steam dock accessory as well. Laptops are great for home computing and office work but trash for gaming. The deck combines the best of both worlds. Not saying they will be used on the workplace but at home.. why not?

 

[ethomaz]

Steam deck is a beast, it just needs worldwide distribution to explode in sales. Plenty of folks would end up using it for basic computing tasks alongside gaming.

It would kill a lot of tablets and laptops. HDMI out, a portable keyboard and you are good to go.

There are several tablets and laptops way stronger than Steam Deck.
For compute tasks you are very well served.

Steam Desk is good for a portable game machine.

 

[ksdixon]

It must be doable somehow. People chop up console hardware and make "handheld ps2's" etc, some can even take discs if I recall correctly. A regular PS2 would have had a plug socket to run, the handheld not so. There's cut down versions of PS3 OS over PS+, don't tell me Sony can't do something to PS4 Portable standard. It's ridiculous, especially in the face of half-products like VitaTV, Project Q and whatever they called that steaming-fan for phone.

 

[FatKaz]

Why? Even high end phones are designed to be used as an alternative to computers with dedicated desktop modes.

Valve sells a steam dock accessory as well. Laptops are great for home computing and office work but trash for gaming. The deck combines the best of both worlds. Not saying they will be used on the workplace but at home.. why not?

Because of the ecosystem.

iOS and Android tablet users aren't dropping what those ecosystem provides for a steam deck, and also having to downgrade to a smaller screen.

Alot of laptops users aren't even gamers.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sony would have to step down from the graphics arms race if they want to release a successful portable. It would be an absolute 180 compared to the output of games Sony is releasing now. Also Sony fans would never accept something like that.

Some wouldn't. A lot of them would, though. If Sony actually expanded back out into AA-tier game production, for games that could do fine on a $10 million - $50 million budget, they would immediately have a pipeline of games between PS5 and a PS4-level portable that can be shared with no downgrade of game visuals/framerates into unacceptable areas or, more importantly, downscaling of game scope, required.

Microsoft seems to be shifting to 1P production of less technically ambitious, smaller-scoped games to accommodate easier scaling between Series X and Series S that doesn't require big sacrifices in performance or game features. However, their problem is that the Series S is just a generally undesired product; it really should have been a handheld/portable from Day 1.

Sony have an opportunity with a real portable home for AA 1P and 1P-assisted titles, PS4 games via BC & PS5 games via cloud streaming and Remote Play. It would cost more than a Q Lite to make, but they would be able to sell it for a higher price than a Q Lite, and IMHO sell a lot more of them. The hardware could then be repurposed into other designs like their smartphones or higher-end smart TVs.

It is a big missed opportunity IMHO.

 

[historia]

Some wouldn't. A lot of them would, though. If Sony actually expanded back out into AA-tier game production, for games that could do fine on a $10 million - $50 million budget, they would immediately have a pipeline of games between PS5 and a PS4-level portable that can be shared with no downgrade of game visuals/framerates into unacceptable areas or, more importantly, downscaling of game scope, required.

Microsoft seems to be shifting to 1P production of less technically ambitious, smaller-scoped games to accommodate easier scaling between Series X and Series S that doesn't require big sacrifices in performance or game features. However, their problem is that the Series S is just a generally undesired product; it really should have been a handheld/portable from Day 1.

Sony have an opportunity with a real portable home for AA 1P and 1P-assisted titles, PS4 games via BC & PS5 games via cloud streaming and Remote Play. It would cost more than a Q Lite to make, but they would be able to sell it for a higher price than a Q Lite, and IMHO sell a lot more of them. The hardware could then be repurposed into other designs like their smartphones or higher-end smart TVs.

It is a big missed opportunity IMHO.

How can they achieve BC with PS4? Either ARM or x86 would cost them a lot of development.