Why PS would probably never make a true portable console.

Nhomnhom

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How can they achieve BC with PS4? Either ARM or x86 would cost them a lot of development.
So Valve can make a portable that plays pretty much most PS4 games including Sony ones but Sony can't, while not charging for online and competing with other stores. It even somewhat plays PS5 games that the PS4 doesn't.

If that is the case Sony deserves what is coming to them.
 
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So Valve can make a portable that plays pretty much most PS4 games including Sony ones but Sony can't, while not charging for online and competing with other stores. It even somewhat plays PS5 games that the PS4 doesn't.

If that is the case Sony deserves what is coming to them.
Deck is a portable that take advantage of Wine compatibility layer to run Windows games

It's not like Wine is built from the ground up, it has been worked on for years prior.

If Sony want to do the same, they have to build the system from ground up.
 

ethomaz

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So Valve can make a portable that plays pretty much most PS4 games including Sony ones but Sony can't, while not charging for online and competing with other stores. It even somewhat plays PS5 games that the PS4 doesn't.

If that is the case Sony deserves what is coming to them.
That games are developed to x86 lol
Steam Deck doesn’t need to emulate the hardware (CPU/GPU) because the game are already made for Steam Deck’s hardware.

Try to run these same games made for x86 in an ARM.

And before you talk about Proton… it only translate the windows API calls… in that case the DirectX API calls… the hardware under Windows or Linux are the same so no hardware emulation.

There are big differences between emulation and translation (what Proton/Wine do).

After all WINE means “Wine Is Not Emulator”.
 
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There is a market for the device, the same the VITA and the PSP had....

About 15 - 40 million, for a solid device.

For a hit, the PSP got as high as 80m.

It's all about making the math work, both on the cost of the device and the way the device gets supported with titles.
 

ethomaz

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There is a market for the device, the same the VITA and the PSP had....

About 15 - 40 million, for a solid device.

For a hit, the PSP got as high as 80m.

It's all about making the math work, both on the cost of the device and the way the device gets supported with titles.
PSP had Sony and 3rd-parties putting effort to release games (a lot exclusives hits).
Vita not.

And to be fair Sony should focus all efforts on PlayStation 5… having to invest in two hardware platform is something that doesn’t work anymore (Sony and Nintendo already learned with that mistake while MS is still suffering even with two platform pretty close in hardware and software).
 
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That games are developed to x86 lol
Steam Deck doesn’t need to emulate the hardware (CPU/GPU) because the game are already made for Steam Deck’s hardware.

Try to run these same games made for x86 in an ARM.

And before you talk about Proton… it only translate the windows API calls… in that case the DirectX API calls… the hardware under Windows or Linux are the same so no hardware emulation.

There are big differences between emulation and translation (what Proton/Wine do).

After all WINE means “Wine Is Not Emulator”.
Emulation is not the only way run apps in different architecture. You can run a compiler parallels with that app that recompile binaries in real time or ahead of time so the hardware can understand, for example Rossetta.

It is just complicated and take a lot of time. Rossetta 2 is also not perfect, a lot of bugs.

Technically Wine is kernel based translation and Rosetta is hardware based translation.
 
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PSP had Sony and 3rd-parties putting effort to release games (a lot exclusives hits).
Vita not.

And to be fair Sony should focus all efforts on PlayStation 5… having to invest in two hardware platform is something that doesn’t work anymore (Sony and Nintendo already learned with that mistake while MS is still suffering even with two platform pretty close in hardware and software).

Ideally Sony should focus on one device. The problem is not that ideal scenario. The problem is that a competitor like Valve needs to have its balls cut-off at the very outset of any console like venture, including a handheld device. In order to cut Valve's balls, and, crowd them out of the market sort of speak, you need your own product offering so Valve's Steamdeck is not the ONLY appealing and legitimately-backed device seeking the non-Switch base, which the Vita/PSP had, and Sony abandoned freely. Steamdeck is just the beginning if Valve's wings grow unimpeded. Hiding behind the "open platform", Valve competes with PlayStation for consumers in the console space via Steam, for VR consumers, and is now going after Nintendo and the Switch, trying to fill the PlayStation handheld void that was left open when Sony left the market. Valve behaves as the vanguard for PC, the PC gaming device, something MS failed to do.

If you look at PC beyond labels such as "open platform", and "productivity/multipurpose device" and position it as a gaming device for those that mainly use it for gaming then it's a direct competitor to consoles (PlayStation/Nintendo) in many respects. For example, similar content is being offered and sold to gaming consumers with similar taste patterns. The software taste pattern differences that do exist, thanks in part to hardware differences is no different than PlayStation users used to consuming GOW and Uncharted, while Nintendo users dabble more on JRPGs, Pokemon etc, while PC users focus heavily on MMO RPGs, strategy games etc. Niche tastes exist for each platform, and then there is generalized mass tastes that each platform competes against each other for. Thus for everything else, the software consumption patterns are the same, and PC has way more overlap with PlayStation than Nintendo. The hardware taste pattern differences are also no different than what a Switch is to a PS5, as a PS5 is to PC. Bottomline, gaming devices with a ton of overlap.

In this business you can't leave shit to "ifs". The threat is real, clipping Valve's wings now is preferable than sitting it out and rolling a dice on whether the Steamdeck truly takes off or not. Cause you don't want to try to address the problem when and if Steamdeck truly takes off, and solidifies a base. In that situation, the job is infinitely much harder, and much costlier, requiring an even more elaborate effort. The advantage for Valve is that they invest very little in content support... sort of like both a weakness and a strength. It's a strength when Valve solidifies themselves with monopoly-like market-share unimpeded like what they did on PC Windows Gaming - thus they run a mean and lean operation with very little operating costs, reaping royalty cuts like the ultimate middle-man. It's a weakness when properly challenged by companies who are willing to differentiate by investing heavily in content software (exclusive titles etc), and thus the market is contested before allowing Valve to reach monopoly-like status. That's when you see Valve's ventures fan out and falter. Valve is extremely opportunistic, with some good minds behind them.

I think Project Q is partly an answer to that, to address both Valve and Nintendo, and why it exists but like many here, I consider it a flawed answer, from something as competent as say, a Vita/PSP product offering.... which pretty much set the blueprint for how to build such devices with a non-Nintendo differentiation. With that said, the PS brand carries a lot of weight, and a lot can be done to protect that VITA/PSP abandoned consumer base with a product at the right price. Project Q at $99.99 is the ideal price for a DualSense with a screen attached. That mass consumer pricing is the ideal price point for an aggressive crowding out push that can theoretically deprive Steamdeck of a market, as it seeks to position itself as the non-Switch alternative that the PSP/Vita occupied. Ideally, a more competent device, aka a proper handheld, would be better positioned to address the Steamdeck threat but what Project Q lacks in hardware and versatility, it can make up massively in price. If the price for Project Q is out of touch with reality, the market will pass judgement, ruthlessly. Sometimes the product, regardless of pricing is not the product the market seeks due to the competitor products appeal. All of that will play out.

Bottomline, the threat requires attention. Once the threat subsides, and goals achieved then I think, with the proper message sent to Valve HQ, Sony is free to again drop it if they want some years down the line.
 
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So Valve can make a portable that plays pretty much most PS4 games including Sony ones but Sony can't, while not charging for online and competing with other stores. It even somewhat plays PS5 games that the PS4 doesn't.

If that is the case Sony deserves what is coming to them.

Valve released a portable PC that may or may not run whatever PC game you throw at it.

If Sony released a handheld PS4 it would must run all PS4 games whatever it takes. This would mean full compute, memory bandwidth, latency and instruction set parity with the PS4's hardware.
With Wide I/O pretty much dead, the only way to get 200GB/s of low-power memory on a SoC would be to use LPDDR5 on a 256bit bus which even on Apple products you only get with the ~65W M2 Pro. Or they could use super expensive HBM that probably costs as much as all the rest combined nowadays.
And with the close-to-metal development for most PS4 1st party games, using L3 on the GPU could be useless.
 

Shmunter

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Q is the way to go from my perspective.

Calls for a ps4 equivalent powered portable would result in devs being tied to last Gen yet again, spread thin and not able to push the next Gen envelope. Min specs matter.
 
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Nhomnhom

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Deck is a portable that take advantage of Wine compatibility layer to run Windows games

It's not like Wine is built from the ground up, it has been worked on for years prior.

If Sony want to do the same, they have to build the system from ground up.
They can just use Wine too, just make a Linux storefront. Their key games are ported anyway and they could leverage crossbuy and PS+ Extra to get people to support it. This way their PC strategy would at least make sense.
 

Nhomnhom

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Valve released a portable PC that may or may not run whatever PC game you throw at it.

If Sony released a handheld PS4 it would must run all PS4 games whatever it takes. This would mean full compute, memory bandwidth, latency and instruction set parity with the PS4's hardware.
With Wide I/O pretty much dead, the only way to get 200GB/s of low-power memory on a SoC would be to use LPDDR5 on a 256bit bus which even on Apple products you only get with the ~65W M2 Pro. Or they could use super expensive HBM that probably costs as much as all the rest combined nowadays.
And with the close-to-metal development for most PS4 1st party games, using L3 on the GPU could be useless.
No it doesn't need to run all PS4 games, even the PS5 doesn't do that and the PS4 didn't run any PS3 game.

You guys just keep coming up with excuses:
- They can't just use PS4 hardware.
- They can't use Linux/Wine like Valve.
- It can't be x86 like the Deck.
- It can't be as expensive as the Deck.

The only thing that makes sense is making a herculean effort to get all their studios to start developing for PC, give 30% to Valve, get exposed to piracy without any decent DRM, release games to just flop trying to cater to a public that don't give a shit about their games while PS players are left without an option for native games on the go.
 
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No it doesn't need to run all PS4 games, even the PS5 doesn't do that and the PS4 didn't run any PS3 game.

You guys just keep coming up with excuses:
- They can't just use PS4 hardware.
- They can't use Linux/Wine like Valve.
- It can't be x86 like the Deck.
- It can't be as expensive as the Deck.

The only thing that makes sense is making a herculean effort to get all their studios to start developing for PC, give 30% to Valve, get exposed to piracy without any decent DRM, release games to just flop trying to cater to a public that don't give a shit about their games while PS players are left without an option for native games on the go.
What is even the point of the device if you can't use your existing PS4 Library
 

Nhomnhom

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What is even the point of the device if you can't use your existing PS4 Library
Get something going so at least there is hope to one day be able to play your PS library on the go.

Horizon Zero Dawn
Days Gone
God of War
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales
Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered
Sackboy: A Big Adventure
Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection
Returnal
The Last of Us Part I
Helldivers
Detroit
Death Stranding

All those are already ported and could be offered with PS+ or if you already own on PS Store as an incentive. Not having to pay the 30% to Valve alone would already justify doing something like this in the long run (notice how Valve doesn't even bother to port their games to PlayStation).

Sony could also negotiate with third party publishers to get them onboard, specially when negotiating PS+ deals. Get their storefront on SteamOS/Linux.

This would also help them in the future for their cloud solution since they would have an easy way to running their games on Linux instead of PlayStation hardware or Windows.

Something else they could do in the future are native Linux version when porting their game (Mac version are a good idea as well), ultimately helping shift control away from their most direct competitor, MS.

Sony greatest luck is how incompetent MS leadership is, it's unbelievable how they managed to get smoked on all front when it comes to gaming while having the most resources and the easiest path.
 
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Get something going so at least there is hope to one day be able to play your PS library on the go.

Horizon Zero Dawn
Days Gone
God of War
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales
Marvel's Spider-Man Remastered
Sackboy: A Big Adventure
Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection
Returnal
The Last of Us Part I
Helldivers
Detroit
Death Stranding

All those are already ported and could be offered with PS+ or if you already own on PS Store as an incentive. Not having to pay the 30% to Valve alone would already justify doing something like this in the long run (notice how Valve doesn't even boether to port their games to PlayStation).

Sony could also negotiate with third party publishers to get them onboard, specially when negotiating PS+ deals.

This would also help them in the future for their cloud solution since they would have a way to running their games on Linux instead of PlayStation hardware or Windows.
Let just say that if they manage to scrap like 50 games on the handheld device day one, who gonna buy it.

Who gonna buy the device that can run Spiderman at 1 hour while you can buy the other console that run Zelda for 4-5 hours.
 

Nhomnhom

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Let just say that if they manage to scrap like 50 games on the handheld device day one, who gonna buy it.
I would. People that already own a Steam Deck would be able to just install Sony storefront. People that own those games or already have PS+ would have a great incentive to getting onboard as well.

PlayStation should be about PlayStation players. Getting PlayStation players to play native games on the go, not trying to go after pirates, after mobile players, after PC players that don't care about AAA games. It's all about doubling down on their strength not taking long shots of coming up with the next Minecraft or Fortnite that are just extremely unlikely to pan out.
 
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I would. People that already own a Steam Deck would be able to just install Sony storefront. People that own those games or already have PS+ would have a great incentive to getting onboard as well.

PlayStation should be about PlayStation players. Getting PlayStation players to play native games on the go, not trying to go after pirates, after mobile players, after PC players that don't care about AAA games.
Honesly for that much efforts, Sony should just buy Valve outright. Because when you lack the efforts to compete, why don't just buy the competition?
 

Nhomnhom

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Honesly for that much efforts, Sony should just buy Valve outright. Because when you lack the efforts to compete, why don't just buy the competition?
Any company that would not buy Valve if they could is just extremely stupid. The problem is that Valve is unlikely to go on sale as long as Gabe is around and when they are on sale Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, MS will all show up to bid for it.

If you ask Valve they will say that the Steam Deck is a success for them yet it took them 10 years+ of investment, it sells less than the Vita. So Sony is only interested in stuff that doesn't require any effort? What a great company.

If PlayStation thinks like you do, it will defenetly not be around in 10 years.
 
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Valve generates about $10-13 billion revenue each year.

Wild guess, about $1.5 - 4 billion (on the upper end) profit yearly.

We talking big numbers here for an acquisition.

ABK about 5-6 bill yearly profit went for $70 Billion.

Edit: Gross profit.
 
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