Yoshi says FF16 initially a PS4/PS5 game. Decision made PS5 only in middle of dev. Also says It may Be Time 4 Younger Gen. to Handle FF 17

[anonpuffs]

Well, yeah, they were.

But I was just summarizing his post because that’s what he said, and it came across as funny to me.

nah, they weren't. the problems in the game didn't have to do with the elements of the game individually, the problem is that they didn't come together as a cohesive whole. The story of Clive, Cid, Jill et al is actually not bad. If it wasn't watered down with MMO-level quest design it would have been very powerful. Benedikta, Hugo, even barnabas/ultima were decent villains, Benedikta and Hugo especially were pretty memorable. The core action gameplay was actually very good, but the game didn't force you to engage with the depth of its systems, and it didn't fully commit to being an action game. So no, they were not "bad" - the product was just less than the sum of its parts.

 

[Vertigo]

Well, yeah, they were.

But I was just summarizing his post because that’s what he said, and it came across as funny to me.

I found that a bit funny too. ethomaz pulling punches while talking about that turd now...

It shouldn’t be that controversial. Most discourse surrounding the game call it for what it is… it’s bad.

I loved my time with FF14 comparatively. It was shocking how bad it turned out knowing the pedigree.

FF7 part 2 looks next gen compared to it. Night and day… to where 16 just seems like texture pack for 14 at best. Ff16 screams rushed, low budget and half assed

 

[Box]

Alot of ganrs have done this for years. Dead Space had data logs, Horizon data logs, etc.

Which is something I like since I'm a fan of reading and it's a great way to really learn about the lore of the game world.

It's a shame so many people complain about these or never bother to read them.

 

[Box]

nah, they weren't. the problems in the game didn't have to do with the elements of the game individually, the problem is that they didn't come together as a cohesive whole. The story of Clive, Cid, Jill et al is actually not bad. If it wasn't watered down with MMO-level quest design it would have been very powerful. Benedikta, Hugo, even barnabas/ultima were decent villains, Benedikta and Hugo especially were pretty memorable. The core action gameplay was actually very good, but the game didn't force you to engage with the depth of its systems, and it didn't fully commit to being an action game. So no, they were not "bad" - the product was just less than the sum of its parts.

A lot of these issues can really be ironed out in a sequel, this game definitely laid the foundation for a real masterpiece.

I do wish the side quests were more like Cuberpunk 2077 and Witcher 3 style. Jill and Clive deserved more development as well

 

[Vertigo]

Which is something I like since I'm a fan of reading and it's a great way to really learn about the lore of the game world.

It's a shame so many people complain about these or never bother to read them.

Lore is okay. It’s there for you if you care. I don’t like when it’s tied to gameplay completion like Metroid Prime and its scanning. Tedious for sure.

And if you’re someone who prefers environmental storytelling to not interrupt gameplay so often… it could even be something you prefer. It can be quite immersive to discover things such a way.

I like it. I don’t care about narrative or cinematics much outside of a Kojima game or CDPR (and classic BioWare) rpgs. Otherwise I’m okay if a lot or most world building is buried in lore.

 

[Box]

And if you’re someone who prefers environmental storytelling to not interrupt gameplay so often… it could even be something you prefer. It can be quite immersive to discover things such a way.

It's hard to really do right, the best examples of this are the Souls games and Ico/SoTC. Other than that I don't know much games that really did it well. It's a difficult thing to pull off.

I like it. I don’t care about narrative or cinematics much outside of a Kojima game or CDPR (and classic BioWare) rpgs. Otherwise I’m okay if a lot or most world building is buried in lore.

I like having the lore in text form, it lets u refer back to it and go about it at your own pace or even treat it seperatly from tbe main story

 

[Vertigo]

It's hard to really do right, the best examples of this are the Souls games and Ico/SoTC. Other than that I don't know much games that really did it well. It's a difficult thing to pull off.




I like having the lore in text form, it lets u refer back to it and go about it at your own pace or even treat it seperatly from tbe main story

Honestly? Resident Evil does (did) it best and is a mix of everything from lore building to blockbuster film nonsense. Later games lose that vibe a bit but it’s mostly true for all the games pre RE4. It’s also focused on that particular game and setting where from software and bungie use it for much larger world building and myths. Remnant 2 also does it the same way as from or bungie.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Which is something I like since I'm a fan of reading and it's a great way to really learn about the lore of the game world.

It's a shame so many people complain about these or never bother to read them.

I like it done tht way. I hate to much dialog otherwise in games though.

 

[ethomaz]

Ff13 did this as well with the data logs, the game is actually super deep if you read those data logs. The issue is most people ignore that so they don't get 80% of the lore.

FFXVI makes a lot more sense if your constantly reading the active time log, ive noticed a lot of complaints come from people who never read it.

If you ever replay the game you should read it, trust me it clears up a lot of the lore issues.

Don't get me wrong though FFXVI did have some issues like the whole Odin section felt rushed especially after the epic Titan and Bahmut boss fights.

I also don't like how Jill was tossed to the side near the end, Clive and Jill should have been some Fire and Ice power Couple.

If you have to resource to data logs to understand anything you failed as a game.

Destiny biggest issue at launch was the lore being only available in a book.

Developers keep doing the same mistake over and over again.

 

[ethomaz]

So, it's a great game ...

but it just had bad story, villain, characters, and gameplay?

The game is great… that doesn’t mean outstanding or something special… it is a 8.5/10 game with a lot of missed potential.

The story is good until half of it… the beginning is probably one of the best start a FF had… it goes well (if you ignore some random Ultima scenes that makes no sense) until the Bahamian battle imo… from there you see the drop in quality in story telling.

The final villain is random and no needed.
Maybe they could work with Barnabas being the final villain… it had more impact, importance and screen play for that than Ultima… his scenes are all epics enough for that.

So villains are not bad… the villains are fine… Ultima is considered the worst main villain ever in a FF game.

Characters are good… I love some of them as characters but they some are just decorative characters as come to story and development (Jill for example… the game should explore her way more… makes her more important for the whole story… shows her reactions and development thought the story).

And in terms of character Jill is one of the best in design and abilities… just a huge miss here.

Gameplay is fine but let’s be honest the way it is it become serviceable as how repetitive it is… they have a tons of options to make the gameplay more engaging and give options to players but choose to make the basics… the lack of others characters play are sung too and even DLCs won’t fix that… everybody expected to have different characters/play style in the DLC but they choose to focus what they had… the repetitive gameplay of Clive that you already experimented for over 50 hours .

The game could be a masterpiece but it has enough flaws to just be that… a great 8.5/10 play (and several times after Bahamut arc I have the feeling to drop my score to 8/10 but I hold the 8.5/10 because they were in the right direction after the shit FFXV).

 

[Box]

If you have to resource to data logs to understand anything you failed as a game.

Games are an interactive medium and they allow the developers to do things not possible in movies, adding reading into there isn't a bad thing, it's better than long exposition dumps that a lot of JRPGs are guilty of.

FFXV made the mistake of putting the lore into other media which I think is a mistake, the same Thing that happened to Kingdom hearts.

Developers keep doing the same mistake over and over again.

Im not sure why people consider it a bad thing, it's fun to read in depth lore in data logs. It's there for people who want the full experience.

Ultima is considered the worst main villain ever in a FF game.

Ultima is a great villian if u read the active time lore, u will see that he is an alien that came from a other world that was destroyed. He came to this planet to get the energy, he created humanity for the same purpose all to revive his fallen comrades and restore his world.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Games are an interactive medium and they allow the developers to do things not possible in movies, adding reading into there isn't a bad thing, it's better than long exposition dumps that a lot of JRPGs are guilty of.

FFXV made the mistake of putting the lore into other media which I think is a mistake, the same Thing that happened to Kingdom hearts.




Im not sure why people consider it a bad thing, it's fun to read in depth lore in data logs. It's there for people who want the full experience.




Ultima is a great villian if u read the active time lore, u will see that he is an alien that came from a other world that was destroyed. He came to this planet to get the energy, he created humanity for the same purpose all to revive his fallen comrades and restore his world.

I enjoyed the data logs in Dead Space and Horizon. I hate hate games with tons of dialog and spreading the game too long bcus of tht. I see absolutely no negatives in having tht in games, it's not meant to tell the whole story generally but to give gd insight.

 

[ethomaz]

Games are an interactive medium and they allow the developers to do things not possible in movies, adding reading into there isn't a bad thing, it's better than long exposition dumps that a lot of JRPGs are guilty of.

FFXV made the mistake of putting the lore into other media which I think is a mistake, the same Thing that happened to Kingdom hearts.




Im not sure why people consider it a bad thing, it's fun to read in depth lore in data logs. It's there for people who want the full experience.




Ultima is a great villian if u read the active time lore, u will see that he is an alien that came from an other world that was destroyed. He came to this planet to get the energy, he created humanity for the same purpose all to revive his fallen comrades and restore his world.

You don’t need active time lore to know he is a High Seraphim… a race in Final Fantasy that travel between worlds to get resources.

He is not the first neither the last…

The issue with him is that he is basically not prt or the plot/story until half of games… his appearance are random and have no impact or meaning in the story.

But somehow from nowhere it becomes the biggest villain of the game… a villain you have no attachment or even interest… it is the biggest foe you have to beat to save the humanity.

Understood his “story” in the game now?

And yes… I will say again… any game you need to rely on data log to understand the story failed as game.

The exemples of successful games with data log you guys listed are all complete games story wise without the data log… the data log just add more.

For example the RE example you guys used… it is a complete game story wise without need to read any diary… the diary only added points for these that are curious to the behind events.

But hey… let’s talk about Bloodborne (or Souls in general)… a game that most of the lore are inside the item descriptions…

It is exactly a good example of how you do good games… you don’t need to read these items to understand what is happening in the game… you will understand the whole plot in Bloodborne without read anything.
The read of the item descriptions just make the experience more rich but it is not needed at all.

You know why you are there… and why you should do things story wise without read anything.

Ultima is weird… not just his motivations are confuse, he was not well designed… the best word I can use is that he is random.

And FFXVI doesn't lack good villains… Hugo is… Annabella is… Benedikta is… Barnabas is…

And I add that… it won’t be a surprise that Ultima was decided after the whole plot was finished… it was like… we need a final boss… let’s take a high seraphim and put it (randomly) in some places in the game and after the act 5 we push it to be the main antagonist of the game

 

[Gamernyc78]

You don’t need active time lore to know he is a High Seraphim… a race in Final Fantasy that travel between worlds to get resources.

He is not the first neither the last…

The issue with him is that he is basically not prt or the plot/story until half of games… his appearance are random and have no impact or meaning in the story.

But somehow from nowhere it becomes the biggest villain of the game… a villain you have no attachment or even interest… it is the biggest foe you have to beat to save the humanity.

Understood his “story” in the game now?

And yes… I will say again… any game you need to rely on data log to understand the story failed as game.

The exemples of successful games with data log you guys listed are all complete games story wise without the data log… the data log just add more.

For example the RE example you guys used… it is a complete game story wise without need to read any diary… the diary only added points for these that are curious to the behind events.

But hey… let’s talk about Bloodborne (or Souls in general)… a game that most of the lore are inside the item descriptions…

It is exactly a good example of how you do good games… you don’t need to read these items to understand what is happening in the game… you will understand the whole plot in Bloodborne without read anything.
The read of the item descriptions just make the experience more rich but it is not needed at all.

You know why you are there… and why you should do things story wise without read anything.

Ultima is weird… not just his motivations are confuse, he was not well designed… the best word I can use is that he is random.

And FFXVI doesn't lack good villains… Hugo is… Annabella is… Benedikta is… Barnabas is…

And I add that… it won’t be a surprise that Ultima was decided after the whole plot was finished… it was like… we need a final boss… let’s take a high seraphim and put it (randomly) in some places in the game and after the act 5 we push it to be the main antagonist of the game

He went in.

 

[Box]

And FFXVI doesn't lack good villains… Hugo is… Annabella is… Benedikta is… Barnabas is…

Honestly I was surprised Benedikta wasn't the final villian, it felt like they were building her up to be one game of thrones style or something.

There was a lot more they could have done with with her

 

[anonpuffs]

Honestly I was surprised Benedikta wasn't the final villian, it felt like they were building her up to be one game of thrones style or something.

There was a lot more they could have done with with her

I agree, I think they should have gone with a more grounded approach to the game with more political machinations, imo ultima should have been a secret boss and barnabas should have been a regular human and only reveals himself if you do the endgame dungeon etc.

 

[Box]

I agree, I think they should have gone with a more grounded approach to the game with more political machinations, imo ultima should have been a secret boss and barnabas should have been a regular human and only reveals himself if you do the endgame dungeon etc.

I actually think there was enough content for a sequel, Barnabas definitely could have been fleshed out a lot more. It feels like we barely got to know him at all. His whole continent was really interesting with the ogres and the humans working together.

Also it was hinted that Torgal would of had more forms based on the other eikons but nothing ever came of it.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I actually think there was enough content for a sequel, Barnabas definitely could have been fleshed out a lot more. It feels like we barely got to know him at all. His whole continent was really interesting with the ogres and the humans working together.

Also it was hinted that Torgal would of had more forms based on the other eikons but nothing ever came of it.

Damn reading these comments I really need to get back in tune with the lore/story of FF.

 

[ethomaz]

Damn reading these comments I really need to get back in tune with the lore/story of FF.

The Togal one is in game as a side quest... not sure if it is a required one or just optional.
I don't remember.... anyway being required or optional made no difference because I did all side quests.