Analyzing why Xbox's E3 is such an abysmal, boring show every single year

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azertydu91

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I'm out of the loop here.

But I can say that the talk I have with @Bryank75 way before the forum ideia become reality was that the forum was to be made to all communities and not PS eccentric focused... so Xbox, Nintendo, PC, Ouya, Stadia, etc fans are all welcome here... invited or not.

What he wanted is to avoid the moderation bias and politics that does exists in ERA and GAF.

Let's create a nice place here... we are all together even with different tastes 🥰 maybe we successed where they failed.
Even the Ouya?
Disgusted Emma Stone GIF


I'm sorry but there should be an ethical border not to cross.

I'm just kidding Ouya fans, do as you please.
 
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Dabaus

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Not sure where else to post this but this seems as good a thread as any. I’ve noticed this week on the podcasts and astroturf threads on restera this narrative that Xbox is doing good in Japan. I think this is a coordinated effort because most of the bigger Xbox centric podcasts all seem to have it as a topic. I don’t think Xbox is doing good in Japan at all but for whatever reason it’s a talking point this week.

So my question is why? And why now?
 

Cragarmi

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Not sure where else to post this but this seems as good a thread as any. I’ve noticed this week on the podcasts and astroturf threads on restera this narrative that Xbox is doing good in Japan. I think this is a coordinated effort because most of the bigger Xbox centric podcasts all seem to have it as a topic. I don’t think Xbox is doing good in Japan at all but for whatever reason it’s a talking point this week.

So my question is why? And why now?
Kojima!
 

TubzGaming

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Not sure where else to post this but this seems as good a thread as any. I’ve noticed this week on the podcasts and astroturf threads on restera this narrative that Xbox is doing good in Japan. I think this is a coordinated effort because most of the bigger Xbox centric podcasts all seem to have it as a topic. I don’t think Xbox is doing good in Japan at all but for whatever reason it’s a talking point this week.

So my question is why? And why now?
Over the past few months Xbox has "Outsold" the PS5 by very small numbers in Japan (Which they wont say out loud as that's against there point)
So they are sticking to it as if it is magical and there is a reason to be overly hyped.
Also with the latest Showcase they showed some Japanese games, They might be old but there Japanese.
They also had Hideo Kojima say look its me you know me i am making a game that's at least 3-5 years away.
They are taking any win they can have or think they have and are going with it.
 
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kyliethicc

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I think that whole "#1 publisher" nonsense should be disallowed on this board. :ROFLMAO: It's a crutch, and it's meaningless.

I played all of those games, and, sorry but Flight Sim, Halo Infinite and Forza Horizon 5 are just not great games. And Psychonauts 2 was extremely average, and also was not a home grown MS game anyway. Both Sony and Nintendo put out WAY better games last year, because .... I actually played them. You know, instead of looking at some silly "award" that no one ever cared about beforehand.

By the way, to address the thread in general. It's because MS doesn't understand gaming. They understand numbers and spreadsheets and trying to get people to sign up for software subscriptions. Phil Spencer and co. obviously don't have a clue about the craftsmanship of games that can reach level where some people consider them "art." Both Sony and Nintendo have people throughout the executive leadership that love games. They understand them. How many times has Spencer said they have the "best Xbox lineup in history" only for it to be a total dud? It's because he literally has no comprehension about what's good or bad. Why else would he be proud of the releases they have so far, when they are actually a complete embarrassment?

Easy answer to the question.
Facts. Microsoft culture is productivity, not entertainment or art. Windows, Office, Azure.

They try to make artistic products but they have no soul. Zune, Windows Phone, Surface, Xbox.

Meanwhile Sony has entertainment and art in their DNA. Sony Music, Sony Pictures, PlayStation.

PlayStation get how to manage and allow some art and soul into their corporate business. The games show that.

And Nintendo is a literal entertainment/toy company. Making games is all they do.
 

ethomaz

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Not sure where else to post this but this seems as good a thread as any. I’ve noticed this week on the podcasts and astroturf threads on restera this narrative that Xbox is doing good in Japan. I think this is a coordinated effort because most of the bigger Xbox centric podcasts all seem to have it as a topic. I don’t think Xbox is doing good in Japan at all but for whatever reason it’s a talking point this week.

So my question is why? And why now?
I think the point is that Xbox is getting some Japanese games… so it is better than nothing.

But when they look that Japanese support they mean that Kojima Cloud game, Crisis Core and Persona.

That are not that much at all and only Kojima Cloud game being something new.
 

Remember_Spinal

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Over the past few months Xbox has "Outsold" the PS5 by very small numbers in Japan (Which they wont say out loud as that's against there point)

Just to respond to this point, It hasn’t been months. they literally outsold the PS5 two weeks out of the 85 weeks this year just simply due to Sony not sending any Playstations to Japan those two weeks.

Playstation is still greatly outselling xbox in japan. If sony sells 6k its seen as a bad week for playstation because they average 15-20k per week and have gone a lot higher, where as 6k for xbox is the top end for their sales there.

Year to date PS5 is at 455.193k and Xbox Series is at 97.464k. Microsoft will always be a distant third in Japan. And if people are freaking out about PS5 software sales being low imagine how bad Xbox is considering they don’t even sell physical xbox games in stores anymore.

Thats why I laugh when people suggest Microsoft getting some big Japanese exclusive like a Fromsoft game or potentially buying Sega. You might as well just burn that money rather than think they have a chance at making a dent in Japan regardless of software offerings. They already tried during the 360 era and it did nothing.
 
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ksdixon

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This...

MS cornered themselves.

They don't have the amount of Subscriptions to fund AAA quality one Gamepass and they put the ideia on Xbox players that every game from them should come to Gamepass day one... that basically limit what they can do and invest.
Plus they get no luck in what they invested... I mean the biggest game last year (Halo Infinite) didn't turn what they expected (high engagement) maybe due i343 but that is another issue they need to face.... and the biggest game for this year was delayed.

I know people will say "MS can burn money to make Gamepass happens"... yeap they can but that need approval from the high board first and they already approved around ~$80b recently so who know if they are approving that easy more budget to new high AAA development for Gamepass or exclusive 3rd-party deals for Gamepass.

I don't think Game division get free pass on budget approval at MS at all.
They were given 7B and then 70B as a follow-up IIRC.
XBOX isn't just XBOX anymore, Phill runs ''MS Gaming'', and I think Panos Panay heads up all ''devices'', so here's hoping for a more stylish-looking XBSX-2 at least. I believe Satya Nadella's son was a disabled gamer? The era of saying 'That's MS' money, not XB's' would seemingly be over after Bethesda-ActiVision, no?

We say MS kicked off the aqquisition wars, at least for gaming, but are they just attempting to get out in front of the streaming/content vault wars set to besiege the media industry?
 

Swift_Star

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Not sure where else to post this but this seems as good a thread as any. I’ve noticed this week on the podcasts and astroturf threads on restera this narrative that Xbox is doing good in Japan. I think this is a coordinated effort because most of the bigger Xbox centric podcasts all seem to have it as a topic. I don’t think Xbox is doing good in Japan at all but for whatever reason it’s a talking point this week.

So my question is why? And why now?
It begs the question as to why they think niche forums will do for them? Why the hell don’t they invest in what really matters: games.
I think it’s fair to say you pick a platform for the marketing and you stay for the games. Marketing plays a part, yes, but ultimately it’s the content that keeps you there.
 
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Papacheeks

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This past E3 got me thinking, why is Xbox's show always so drop-dead awful? Let's discuss, because I think I know the reasons why:

-Lack of Exclusives: There's really no further talk necessary with Xbox, the buck always stops at this point. The console has literally ZERO true exclusives. Therefore, every single announcement is marred by the fact that you already know the game is available for PC, or in most cases as well, PlayStation. the excitement is always muted as a result. Until MS make games only for Xbox, this problem will never fix itself.

-First Party is always a no-show: MS's internal teams had nothing to show this past e3, except the yearly racing game as per usual. I want you to take a few seconds and think about Xbox's showcase if they didn't sandwhich it between two Bethesda games, both former also-on-Playstation multiplats they bought off of the market with the Bethesda acquisition. Without RedFall and Starfield, the show would have been unfathomable.

-3rd party partnerships that matter, and premium AAA games always show with Sony: Capcom and square-Enix both have partnerships with sony (Resident Evil, FF, etc) but it goes beyond even that. Now even Bandai-Namco, who used to show up at MS's show, are absent. Callisto Protocol is another great example, they also decided to partner with Sony, and they represent another example of AAA games either deciding PlayStation is a better partner or that the gamepass model isn't the right fit for their premium product. That brings us into our next problem, which I consider the biggest.

-The show is always an indie reel featuring the slops, the leftovers, and the low-budget games no one has ever heard of: I walk away Xbox's e3 conferences every year sometimes unable to even remember a single title they showed, that's how bad it's gotten. Maybe it's low market share affecting the deals they can sign, or maybe its something else, like Phil Spencer's poor content curation skills (or poor taste in games). There is no reason to give the spotlight to indie games for 95 minutes straight unless you're specifically promising an indie showcase. It needs to stop.

Well, that's my thoughts on the matter. Of course, there were other lows and pure filler (Fallout 76DLC, Grounded DLC, etc) but that about covers it.

tl;dr:

It's telling that both a 20 minute 3rd party-only youtube video by both Sony and Nintendo each outclassed a 95-minute showcase put together by Microsoft. And to think, Sony and Nintendo show every few weeks inbetween State-of-Play and Nintendo Directs, and they still managed to show more compelling content than Microsoft, who insists on the 'show once a year' model. Unreal.

Honestly this reality of where Microsoft is Platform wise I've talked to at Nauseum. But I will do my best to not make this a book:

Xbox has a brand and as a platform lacks the initial team and people behind its batshit startup. The Direct X team to me was equivalent to early Playstation hardware team. They all came from Graphics and what not. So it really felt like a Sega style scrappy start up.
And since Direct X guys were making PC stuff for gaming too, mainly at the time Direct X for windows they knew a lot of developers. Were friends with a lot of them so of course they courted alot of those people to xbox.

Hence Xbox's early days is entrenched in PC developers like Bungie, Like Bethesda, like Epic ect. Early days of xbox were to most where its identity lay. And I agree, there's just more going on in that era, where they had pc people making a box, that played games made specifically for it.

Issue was creative teams were fighting Enterprise people who wanted to take control of this and that meant budgets, that meant marketing ect and ultimately direction. Alot of them, saw after it launched where enterprise wanted to take this and they said "I'm out". Literally once XBox live launched to me it was the end of the direct X guys with their idea;s and passion of where to take xbox, and the start of Enterprise who only saw a way to get Windows devices into your living room. Sell you on services which grew their other sectors for hardware for servers.

J allard, Shemus Blackly are all gone and have been since early years of xbox. Phil literally came from Enterprise software, and went into PC game software and career wise didn't ruffle feathers until xbox as a brand was completely in the shitter.
And to be honest I don't think he understands xbox in-terms of its roots at all. Xbox now compared to xbox from early 360, early OG days is all but gone.

Even the branding of xbox feels super corporate compared to the sega style gamer branding they had during early XBox/360 days.
Because of all of this, we now get a xbox that was restarted with a bunch of money to allign with rest of corporate interests. Now its all about its growth sectors, the services and not the games the make or are affiliated with.
They let Bungie leave, they killed Rare, killed Lion Head studios, and killed any chance of having identity past titles like halo, gears, forza. ANd with the state of Halo even thats not great.

Though I do miss the days from Sony of mascots, I at least know that they have not abandoned their roots of being an entertainment company and make games to entertain people on their platform.
Microsoft's vision seems that the games just serve a purpose. Which is to fuel gamepass.
Until they have someone from entertainment or from original team that wants to actually bring back the oldschool xbox, I feel they are going to have continue issues on and off with in-house software development.
 
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Lord Mittens

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I'm out of the loop here.

But I can say that the talk I have with @Bryank75 way before the forum ideia become reality was that the forum was to be made to all communities and not PS eccentric focused... so Xbox, Nintendo, PC, Ouya, Stadia, etc fans are all welcome here... invited or not.

What he wanted is to avoid the moderation bias and politics that does exists in ERA and GAF.

Let's create a nice place here... we are all together even with different tastes 🥰 maybe we successed where they failed.

I'm with you 100% brother.
@Bryank75 yes I saw the comment. And I just couldn't help myself 😇
 

Dabaus

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Honestly this reality of where Microsoft is Platform wise I've talked to at Nauseum. But I will do my best to not make this a book:

Xbox has a brand and as a platform lacks the initial team and people behind its batshit startup. The Direct X team to me was equivalent to early Playstation hardware team. They all came from Graphics and what not. So it really felt like a Sega style scrappy start up.
And since Direct X guys were making PC stuff for gaming too, mainly at the time Direct X for windows they knew a lot of developers. Were friends with a lot of them so of course they courted alot of those people to xbox.

Hence Xbox's early days is entrenched in PC developers like Bungie, Like Bethesda, like Epic ect. Early days of xbox were to most where its identity lay. And I agree, there's just more going on in that era, where they had pc people making a box, that played games made specifically for it.

Issue was creative teams were fighting Enterprise people who wanted to take control of this and that meant budgets, that meant marketing ect and ultimately direction. Alot of them, saw after it launched where enterprise wanted to take this and they said "I'm out". Literally once XBox live launched to me it was the end of the direct X guys with their idea;s and passion of where to take xbox, and the start of Enterprise who only saw a way to get Windows devices into your living room. Sell you on services which grew their other sectors for hardware for servers.

J allard, Shemus Blackly are all gone and have been since early years of xbox. Phil literally came from Enterprise software, and went into PC game software and career wise didn't ruffle feathers until xbox as a brand was completely in the shitter.
And to be honest I don't think he understands xbox in-terms of its roots at all. Xbox now compared to xbox from early 360, early OG days is all but gone.

Even the branding of xbox feels super corporate compared to the sega style gamer branding they had during early XBox/360 days.
Because of all of this, we now get a xbox that was restarted with a bunch of money to allign with rest of corporate interests. Now its all about its growth sectors, the services and not the games the make or are affiliated with.
They let Bungie leave, they killed Rare, killed Lion Head studios, and killed any chance of having identity past titles like halo, gears, forza. ANd with the state of Halo even thats not great.

Though I do miss the days from Sony of mascots, I at least know that they have not abandoned their roots of being an entertainment company and make games to entertain people on their platform.
Microsoft's vision seems that the games just serve a purpose. Which is to fuel gamepass.
Until they have someone from entertainment or from original team that wants to actually bring back the oldschool xbox, I feel they are going to have continue issues on and off with in-house software development.
Great line of thought. I don’t mind reading an essay on such subjects.
 
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Bodycount611

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Not sure where else to post this but this seems as good a thread as any. I’ve noticed this week on the podcasts and astroturf threads on restera this narrative that Xbox is doing good in Japan. I think this is a coordinated effort because most of the bigger Xbox centric podcasts all seem to have it as a topic. I don’t think Xbox is doing good in Japan at all but for whatever reason it’s a talking point this week.

So my question is why? And why now?
Not quite sure, they have the one port beg "xbox in Japan and Asia' thread where they all go to file grievances over Xbox getting skipped time and time again on multiplats. Reads like one giant group therapy session, lol.
 

Remember_Spinal

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Not quite sure, they have the one port beg "xbox in Japan and Asia' thread where they all go to file grievances over Xbox getting skipped time and time again on multiplats. Reads like one giant group therapy session, lol.

Like how installbase loses it over a japanese game skipping switch lol
 
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Bodycount611

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i think the funniest one was still on amazon japan, the xbox version of final fantasy 15 has tons of 1 star reviews because people were buying it, sticking it in their PS4, and wondering why it wouldn't work. :LOL:

People in Japan didn't even know FF15 was on Xbox, or that Xbox even existed to begin with. they legit thought this was just some special edition for the PS4.

Screen-Shot-2022-07-05-at-0-55-09.png

(machine translated)
Screen-Shot-2022-07-05-at-0-55-02.png


LOL
 
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Bodycount611

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Like how installbase loses it over a japanese game skipping switch lol
haven't seen many japanese games skip switch lately other than tales of arise and soul hackers 2, but i fully understand the hardware probably is responsible for limiting those. Nobody on Switch can complain now with Persona 5, plus all of the other exclusives like Shin Megami Tensei V, Triangle Strategy, Harvestella, Bravely Default II, MH Rise, etc etc. upsetting everyone else.

the most egregious Xbox skip lately has been The Megaman Battle Network collection skipping Xbox. That was a riot, too. I guess that one cut deep because it dashed their dreams of a Capcom acquistion, so it stung two-fold. 😂
 

Remember_Spinal

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haven't seen many japanese games skip switch lately other than tales of arise and soul hackers 2, but i fully understand the hardware probably is responsible for limiting those. Nobody on Switch can complain now with Persona 5, plus all of the other exclusives like Shin Megami Tensei V, Triangle Strategy, Harvestella, Bravely Default II, MH Rise, etc etc. upsetting everyone else.

the most egregious Xbox skip lately has been The Megaman Battle Network collection skipping Xbox. That was a riot, too. I guess that one cut deep because it dashed their dreams of a Capcom acquistion, so it stung two-fold. 😂

It was a shitshow when it was a slight possibility that the switch wouldn’t get persona after teh xbox show.

Also stuff like Valkyrie Elysium and One Piece are skipping it.
 
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Bodycount611

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It was a shitshow when it was a slight possibility that the switch wouldn’t get persona after teh xbox show.

Also stuff like Valkyrie Elysium and One Piece are skipping it.
in retrospect now we can gather something was very wrong with that announcement and some serious money changed hands for Microsoft to be the ones to reveal the Persona ports. Plus, the main point of the port beg was that the games could be played on handheld. Seeing something like Persona 3 Portable especially announced for Xbox instead of Switch? That's wild.

That being said, I don't think any switch owner thinks nintendo will be getting anything on the higher end, like FF16 or resident evil for instance. the expectations aren't the same.

it's Xbox fans who still think (or wish) they were in the 360 era where every single game was 360/PS3 and you didn't even have to second guess that a game was coming to xbox. PC ports were almost unheard of, and Nintendo got nothing of value 3rd party wise back then. Every dev did 360/PS3 only.

That's just not the reality anymore. Xbox took a dive from pretty much 1st place to now a distant 4th. I get that it's upsetting but come on now. If these guys really wanted to play these games, they should have seen the writing on the wall during the Xbox One gen. Nothing is promised when it comes to Xbox moving forward.



^That's not satire btw, he's serious. these guys are seriously upset. lol
 
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Lord Mittens

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in retrospect now we can gather something was very wrong with that announcement and some serious money changed hands for Microsoft to be the ones to reveal the Persona ports. Plus, the main point of the port beg was that the games could be played on handheld. Seeing something like Persona 3 Portable especially announced for Xbox instead of Switch? That's wild.

That being said, I don't think any switch owner thinks nintendo will be getting anything on the higher end, like FF16 or resident evil for instance. the expectations aren't the same.

it's Xbox fans who still think (or wish) they were in the 360 era where every single game was 360/PS3 and you didn't even have to second guess that a game was coming to xbox. PC ports were almost unheard of, and Nintendo got nothing of value 3rd party wise back then. Every dev did 360/PS3 only.

That's just not the reality anymore. Xbox took a dive from pretty much 1st place to now a distant 4th. I get that it's upsetting but come on now. If these guys really wanted to play these games, they should have seen the writing on the wall during the Xbox One gen. Nothing is promised when it comes to Xbox moving forward.



^That's not satire btw, he's serious. these guys are seriously upset. lol


Just keep rubbing salt into my wounds gah damn lol

However I am not that upset compared to Mr Maverick, going by that name he is certainly a hardcore Capcom/ Megaman fan.
 
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Bodycount611

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It is what it is. Nintendo struck lightning in a bottle with the Switch, PlayStation held strong, and PC gaming has exploded in popularity, so PC gets most games nowadays. MS picked a bad time to try and take consumer's rights away, spy on them, and attack physical games ownership. The fact that they actually tried those things still haunts them to this day and hardcore gamers haven't forgotten.

All of it means Xbox is last on the priority list for a lot of these core games and devs, especially ones building lower-spec, niche, hardcore-centric projects. (A.K.A. most Japanese developers, and of course indie devs).

Gamepass may lead to some renewed japanese support with MS paying devs for ports upfront. But again, the xbox customer gets the games late, if ever at all, and never a physical copy. It all comes off as looking like a very low-class, ramshackle solution.

Would I trade my Danganronpa trilogy Switch collector's edition, (with all 3 games on cart in a nice metal box ;)) for just D1 and D2 for $1 digital-only on gamepass? Nope.

Would I trade my Persona 5R PS4 steelbook, and disrupt my entire Persona-on-Playstation collection (that stretches all the way back to the PS1) for a 3 year late port on a console with no SMT history? Nope.

It's bleak, looking at it from a core fan's perspective. Xbox will never get a foothold in the Japanese games/gamers community, IMO. The history just isn't there.
 
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