Bloomberg: Why PlayStation Fans Are Cheering CEO’s Departure

Gamernyc78

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Why even post this Forbes nonsense in which they are copying Bloomberg which article was also nonsense.
We all know it's tales from their ass so if you don't like just bypass it. It's still funny to see the bs that some of these professionals spew and talk about. Also the reality is that many fans dont like this pivot either way or what they think the pivot will look like (ppl just afraid it'll take focus away from their beloved franchises and new ips).
 
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Petekilla

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Sony doesn’t just have their own studios making service games. They bought Haven and Firewalk to develop those. Also Naughty Dog and Guerilla had experience in that past making MP games. I know service games are different than traditional MP games, but they do have experience.
 

ethomaz

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ethomaz
You read the Forbes article.
Then you read the Bloomberg article.

Not taking issue if the articles are right or wrong.

But the Forbes based in Bloomberg looks like a piece of fiction because he created an alternative narrative that is not in the Bloomberg article at all.
If you want to base your article in something at least stay true to that something.
 
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FWIW, I think at least a good chunk of this is believable. Between Factions 2 getting soft-rebooted, the Deviation game seeing tons of layoffs, the (small) possibility Fairgame$ might either get canned or soft-rebooted following trailer reception and Sega's (very) similar Hyenas also getting cancelled...yeah, I can imagine a lot of the internal GaaS titles are having growing pains ATM

I think the more troubling part is that most new GaaS titles have been failing in the market of late. Diablo 4 is just dead. Halo Infinite is dead. Overwatch 2 is dead. I think if the vast majority of Sony's GaaS titles were FPS/sci-fi shooter-focused, they are in some trouble, because that particular genre for GaaS is saturated and covered with very strong IP like Fortnite, Apex Legends, VALORANT, and Counterstrike 2.

If they want to find success in the GaaS space, it'll have to be through more unorthodox genres and innovating that way. No one saw stuff like Fall Guys blowing up the way it did, but part of the reason is because it was really unique among other GaaS/live-service stuff. Party Animals seems to be picking up where Fall Guys left off. IMHO, Sony's GaaS push should be focused on quirkier, nicely-budgeted AA-type games in genres that could bring a lot of fun new stuff to that model, like rhythm games or golfing games.

Why haven't they selected IP like MLB The Show to transition into a GaaS model? They could've been made a MLB The Show Batzone or whatever, had it out on all devices (PS, Xbox, PC, Nintendo, mobile) and bringing in a ton of money without need for a massive budget. Sony should've identified IP already available that could be (relatively) easy to spin off into a GaaS without requiring massive budgets, and IP like MLB The Show were just perfect for it.

Instead they are likely sinking quasi-AAA level budgets into a flock of GaaS that are thematically and genre-wise very similar to the aforementioned Fortnites, Apex Legends, VALORANTs, Counterstrike 2s, Division 2s etc. So that may not only step on the toes of such games by 3P partners, but also make it that much more difficult for Sony's own games to stand out. They've found massive success with the 1P AAA traditional games because they were focusing in a space most 3P abandoned, and in dosing so inspired 3P to start trying more with big story-driven mature games.

Sony have to replicate that approach with GaaS but IMO stuff like Fairgame$ isn't going to do it. Marathon has a solid path because it's Bungie, but Deviation's game doesn't, even if the team has vets from IW and other studios onboard. But at end of the day, I suppose all this GaaS stuff only becomes a genuine problem if it means we're going to see a big gap in Sony 1P AAA (or AA, tho most of Sony's studios aren't focused on AA-type games) traditional releases.

Some people are going to point to charts showing funding for those games hasn't dropped, and it'll increase, but just because a game's being funded doesn't mean it'll be releasing anytime soon. Any AAA game that was just funded to begin dev say last year, won't likely be seeing release until 2028. By that point it could just be a PS6 launch title. Any that started dev in 2021, earliest we'll see them is 2027.

So, does anyone know what 1P AAA games initialized funding and started development in 2018 or 2019? Because those are the ones which could see release in 2024 and 2025, or 2026. I know Wolverine is one such game, but is it alone? And yes, Sony is doing things with 3P on a 2P-like basis, like with Rise of the Ronin and Stellar Blade. But how much of that involves Sony's own 1P studios sharing development? How many of those are like, say, a Bloodborne scenario, where Japan Studio and From Software pretty much co-developed the game together from start to finish?

Also, I feel this is just another reason why Sony should not have dropped AA traditional games altogether, internally. Those games don't need $200 million budgets (or in many cases even a quarter of that), they don't need 6-7 year development cycles, and they don't need to sell 10+ million copies to be lucratively profitable. I think Sony expected/assumed 3P AA would default exclusively to PS this gen (either naturally or through 3P deals), but didn't account for a scenario where Microsoft was willing to use its deep pockets to buy out some of those notable AA devs (Ninja Theory, Double Fine, Obsidian) and 3P pubs who still make some of those games (Zenimax, i.e games like HiFi Rush which 100% would've been on PS4 & PS5 if MS didn't gatekeep the release).

But now there's also Nintendo in the mix, and Switch 2 will likely be getting a lot of 3P support the Switch went without. That means less in the way of potential 3P AA exclusives for PlayStation, particularly from Japanese publishers. And no matter what some people want to pretend, yes: EXCLUSIVES MATTER! They differentiate one platform's value proposition to the market from its competitors. It's the easiest and most natural way to do so.

If Sony wanted to easily bring in more GaaS to the fold, IMO this is what I think they should've done:

1: Use the MLB The Show IP/license to make a GaaS spin-off, maybe with dream teams and fantasy matches, on all platforms. Main differentiator between it and regular MLB The Show being content and, of course, the service model with game models designed around it.​
2: Keep GT Sport around, focusing the online component on it while having GT7 completely focus on single-player and limited, traditional MP where some progress could be shared with GT Sport. Keep GT7 to console while expanding GT Sport to PS5 & PC.​
3: Remake the Factions MP from TLOU and add live-service support (make it quasi-GaaS) with new content and such, launch on PS5 & PC Day 1. They could've done this around the launch of PS5 or in its 1st year, IMO. Use community feedback to build towards Factions 2, and tease some Factions 2 content and features into it (like how Capcom introduced Luke and a few SF6 mechanics/ideas into SFV Season 5). Then when Factions 2 is ready, seamlessly transition Factions remake players to it while offering newcomers a fair price point to jump into Factions 2.​
4: Port Dreams to PC (& add enhancements for PS5) and figure out a way to let people make and publish/monetize their own games made with the engine while getting a cut off software sales. This could've been done a year or so after the PS4 release.​

Those should've been the big 'Phase 1' GaaS focus points for Sony. MLB The Show "Warzone" ('Batzone') (PS/Xbox/PC/Switch/mobile) stuff & Factions remake for PS5 & PC launch or within the launch window (or 1st year). Dreams port to PC with game publishing & monetization for PS5 & PC around 2021 - 2022. GT7 & GT Sport 2 for late 2022. This probably would've allowed Factions 2 to release this year, or early next. Meanwhile, the MLB The Show GaaS, Factions remake, Dreams, and GT Sport 2 could continue getting regular updates, and of course Destiny 2 joining that under Bungie (now owned by Sony).

Get THOSE games to work, and THEN they could roll into a 'Phase 2' of GaaS with Marathon, Concord and maybe two other, smaller-sized AA type titles, to have for the back-half of the gen alongside the aforementioned MLB/GT/Factions stuff. That's how I would have approached it, anyway. My other priority would've been to get internal 1P AA games back on the dock, and do away with the PC ports of 1P traditional titles outside of legacy collections with remastered content (i.e Uncharted 1-3 Remaster Collection, Sly Cooper 1-3 Remaster Collection, etc.).

Unfortunately that's not the scenario PS is in, though they can make it so and maybe they have already made some of these types of changes internally, or done so many months back. I guess we'll be seeing at some point.
 

Vertigo

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26 Jun 2022
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Jury is still out if whether we are defining Helldivers 2 as a long term GaaS.

It’s kinda looking like it’s not. No long term plans unveiled. And there is nothing wrong with this. Is the game like the first with the just a campaign and world states? I don’t think the devs or Sony are looking for seasonal content and battle passes for this etc…

All online games can potentially be games as service but whether or not you want a studio like ND to have to rework their entire studio infrastructure and game engines to support seasonal content…
 

flaccidsnake

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2 May 2023
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To me the coolest aspect of Destiny, and the best potential of 'service' games is instanced multiplayer without discrete modes/matchmaking. You just play the game, and other people are also hanging out in your world. Very few games have delivered on this, and many of the best are not considered "service games". Games like Elden Ring, Journey, Death Stranding, etc.

For publishers the key feature of a service game is that you keep paying beyond the standard $70 price point. If you play a game for years, they want you to keep paying for years. The problem is very few games have consistently interesting content to maintain years of engagement. You don't really know until after the game releases. Tons of people are still playing Rocket League, which is awesome, but I doubt the makers of Super Sonic Acrobatic Battle Cars believed their follow up was going to be an esports darling 10 years later. They added the "service" aspects gradually after it was a hit. Same deal with Fortnite.
 

AshHunter216

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8 Jan 2023
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FWIW, I think at least a good chunk of this is believable. Between Factions 2 getting soft-rebooted, the Deviation game seeing tons of layoffs, the (small) possibility Fairgame$ might either get canned or soft-rebooted following trailer reception and Sega's (very) similar Hyenas also getting cancelled...yeah, I can imagine a lot of the internal GaaS titles are having growing pains ATM

I think the more troubling part is that most new GaaS titles have been failing in the market of late. Diablo 4 is just dead. Halo Infinite is dead. Overwatch 2 is dead. I think if the vast majority of Sony's GaaS titles were FPS/sci-fi shooter-focused, they are in some trouble, because that particular genre for GaaS is saturated and covered with very strong IP like Fortnite, Apex Legends, VALORANT, and Counterstrike 2.

If they want to find success in the GaaS space, it'll have to be through more unorthodox genres and innovating that way. No one saw stuff like Fall Guys blowing up the way it did, but part of the reason is because it was really unique among other GaaS/live-service stuff. Party Animals seems to be picking up where Fall Guys left off. IMHO, Sony's GaaS push should be focused on quirkier, nicely-budgeted AA-type games in genres that could bring a lot of fun new stuff to that model, like rhythm games or golfing games.

Why haven't they selected IP like MLB The Show to transition into a GaaS model? They could've been made a MLB The Show Batzone or whatever, had it out on all devices (PS, Xbox, PC, Nintendo, mobile) and bringing in a ton of money without need for a massive budget. Sony should've identified IP already available that could be (relatively) easy to spin off into a GaaS without requiring massive budgets, and IP like MLB The Show were just perfect for it.

Instead they are likely sinking quasi-AAA level budgets into a flock of GaaS that are thematically and genre-wise very similar to the aforementioned Fortnites, Apex Legends, VALORANTs, Counterstrike 2s, Division 2s etc. So that may not only step on the toes of such games by 3P partners, but also make it that much more difficult for Sony's own games to stand out. They've found massive success with the 1P AAA traditional games because they were focusing in a space most 3P abandoned, and in dosing so inspired 3P to start trying more with big story-driven mature games.

Sony have to replicate that approach with GaaS but IMO stuff like Fairgame$ isn't going to do it. Marathon has a solid path because it's Bungie, but Deviation's game doesn't, even if the team has vets from IW and other studios onboard. But at end of the day, I suppose all this GaaS stuff only becomes a genuine problem if it means we're going to see a big gap in Sony 1P AAA (or AA, tho most of Sony's studios aren't focused on AA-type games) traditional releases.

Some people are going to point to charts showing funding for those games hasn't dropped, and it'll increase, but just because a game's being funded doesn't mean it'll be releasing anytime soon. Any AAA game that was just funded to begin dev say last year, won't likely be seeing release until 2028. By that point it could just be a PS6 launch title. Any that started dev in 2021, earliest we'll see them is 2027.

So, does anyone know what 1P AAA games initialized funding and started development in 2018 or 2019? Because those are the ones which could see release in 2024 and 2025, or 2026. I know Wolverine is one such game, but is it alone? And yes, Sony is doing things with 3P on a 2P-like basis, like with Rise of the Ronin and Stellar Blade. But how much of that involves Sony's own 1P studios sharing development? How many of those are like, say, a Bloodborne scenario, where Japan Studio and From Software pretty much co-developed the game together from start to finish?

Also, I feel this is just another reason why Sony should not have dropped AA traditional games altogether, internally. Those games don't need $200 million budgets (or in many cases even a quarter of that), they don't need 6-7 year development cycles, and they don't need to sell 10+ million copies to be lucratively profitable. I think Sony expected/assumed 3P AA would default exclusively to PS this gen (either naturally or through 3P deals), but didn't account for a scenario where Microsoft was willing to use its deep pockets to buy out some of those notable AA devs (Ninja Theory, Double Fine, Obsidian) and 3P pubs who still make some of those games (Zenimax, i.e games like HiFi Rush which 100% would've been on PS4 & PS5 if MS didn't gatekeep the release).

But now there's also Nintendo in the mix, and Switch 2 will likely be getting a lot of 3P support the Switch went without. That means less in the way of potential 3P AA exclusives for PlayStation, particularly from Japanese publishers. And no matter what some people want to pretend, yes: EXCLUSIVES MATTER! They differentiate one platform's value proposition to the market from its competitors. It's the easiest and most natural way to do so.

If Sony wanted to easily bring in more GaaS to the fold, IMO this is what I think they should've done:

1: Use the MLB The Show IP/license to make a GaaS spin-off, maybe with dream teams and fantasy matches, on all platforms. Main differentiator between it and regular MLB The Show being content and, of course, the service model with game models designed around it.​
2: Keep GT Sport around, focusing the online component on it while having GT7 completely focus on single-player and limited, traditional MP where some progress could be shared with GT Sport. Keep GT7 to console while expanding GT Sport to PS5 & PC.​
3: Remake the Factions MP from TLOU and add live-service support (make it quasi-GaaS) with new content and such, launch on PS5 & PC Day 1. They could've done this around the launch of PS5 or in its 1st year, IMO. Use community feedback to build towards Factions 2, and tease some Factions 2 content and features into it (like how Capcom introduced Luke and a few SF6 mechanics/ideas into SFV Season 5). Then when Factions 2 is ready, seamlessly transition Factions remake players to it while offering newcomers a fair price point to jump into Factions 2.​
4: Port Dreams to PC (& add enhancements for PS5) and figure out a way to let people make and publish/monetize their own games made with the engine while getting a cut off software sales. This could've been done a year or so after the PS4 release.​

Those should've been the big 'Phase 1' GaaS focus points for Sony. MLB The Show "Warzone" ('Batzone') (PS/Xbox/PC/Switch/mobile) stuff & Factions remake for PS5 & PC launch or within the launch window (or 1st year). Dreams port to PC with game publishing & monetization for PS5 & PC around 2021 - 2022. GT7 & GT Sport 2 for late 2022. This probably would've allowed Factions 2 to release this year, or early next. Meanwhile, the MLB The Show GaaS, Factions remake, Dreams, and GT Sport 2 could continue getting regular updates, and of course Destiny 2 joining that under Bungie (now owned by Sony).

Get THOSE games to work, and THEN they could roll into a 'Phase 2' of GaaS with Marathon, Concord and maybe two other, smaller-sized AA type titles, to have for the back-half of the gen alongside the aforementioned MLB/GT/Factions stuff. That's how I would have approached it, anyway. My other priority would've been to get internal 1P AA games back on the dock, and do away with the PC ports of 1P traditional titles outside of legacy collections with remastered content (i.e Uncharted 1-3 Remaster Collection, Sly Cooper 1-3 Remaster Collection, etc.).

Unfortunately that's not the scenario PS is in, though they can make it so and maybe they have already made some of these types of changes internally, or done so many months back. I guess we'll be seeing at some point.
We'll just have to wait and see what the future hold in terms of what kind of games Sony have in the pipeline, but I wouldn't take a FUD article from Paul Tassi THAT seriously. Even reddit is flagging his article as misleading.
 
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Swift_Star

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I'm in the wait and see mode. I'll let the crazies and the new CEO to do the worrying.
 

Killer_Sakoman

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Bloomberg is Mr. Obvious. You don't need insiders t predict that 99% of GaaS projects fail ( no matter how good are the developers).
 
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Oh no, insiders are concerned.
Developers are being “forced”

Paul Tassi

Sleep Yawn GIF
 
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Yurinka

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What a clown, this Forbes guy has no idea about what he's talking about. In addition to make an article out of nothing and copy pasting a fake news article from Bloomberg and Schreier, both known for sharing multiple officially debunked bad fake news and FUD about Sony.

He doesn't seem to know that the previous MLB -which already were GaaS- were a success, that the previous Gran Turismo game (Gran Tusimo Sport, also GaaS like GT7) also was a success, that the Firewalk guys come from having worked at Bungie on Destiny and Halo, that Bungie is one of the most successful GaaS devs, and the Haven guys come from working on GaaS like Rainbow 6 Siege, and that people like Naughty Dog, Guerrilla and Insomniac already worked on multiplayer in multiple games, that the previous game of the Helldivers 2 devs was Helldivers 1 which also was a coop MP shooter but just with other camera, etc.

He also says they "have been forced", when the studios at Sony are the ones who pitch the projects. He also says GaaS is a bubble that’s about to burst, when they have been growing for almost two decades, and there's no sign that it would change: the opposite, over time their growth becomes bigger and addons related revenue keeps replacing game sales revenue. Both for consoles, PC and the whole gaming market.

How can they conclude that when none of these games got to market yet?
MLB, Gran Turismo 7 and Firewall Ultra, 3 of the dozen IPs that Sony plans to have with GaaS released by March 2016 (Destiny may be included as 4th) already are in the market.
 
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Gamernyc78

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MLB, Gran Turismo 7 and Firewall Ultra, 3 of the dozen IPs that Sony plans to have with GaaS released by March 2016 (Destiny may be included as 4th) already are in the market.
MLB has been on the market for years and has always done decent. GT as well and I don't see them providing numbers to back up this claim. Firewall might be a Bomba but thts in VR lol thy couldn't possibly expected tht to be a gaas machine. Nah this comment doesn't hold up.
 
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Systemshock2023

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MLB, Gran Turismo 7 and Firewall Ultra, 3 of the dozen IPs that Sony plans to have with GaaS released by March 2016 (Destiny may be included as 4th) already are in the market.

C'mon... you know what I mean. Sony wants to release that big Fortnite killer. GT and MLB are not those games. And destiny, not sure they had much to do with destiny since they were recently acquired.

GT has been historically a single player game with online components since 6th generation. But never to the point of changing to a full scale Gaas. Don't think the GT audience wants to get into loot boxes to unlock a stage 4 turbo for their 97' Mine's skyline.
 

Killer_Sakoman

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What a clown, this Forbes guy has no idea about what he's talking about. In addition to make an article out of nothing and copy pasting a fake news article from Bloomberg and Schreier, both known for sharing multiple officially debunked bad fake news and FUD about Sony.

He doesn't seem to know that the previous MLB -which already were GaaS- were a success, that the previous Gran Turismo game (Gran Tusimo Sport, also GaaS like GT7) also was a success, that the Firewalk guys come from having worked at Bungie on Destiny and Halo, that Bungie is one of the most successful GaaS devs, and the Haven guys come from working on GaaS like Rainbow 6 Siege, and that people like Naughty Dog, Guerrilla and Insomniac already worked on multiplayer in multiple games, that the previous game of the Helldivers 2 devs was Helldivers 1 which also was a coop MP shooter but just with other camera, etc.

He also says they "have been forced", when the studios at Sony are the ones who pitch the projects. He also says GaaS is a bubble that’s about to burst, when they have been growing for almost two decades, and there's no sign that it would change: the opposite, over time their growth becomes bigger and addons related revenue keeps replacing game sales revenue. Both for consoles, PC and the whole gaming market.


MLB, Gran Turismo 7 and Firewall Ultra, 3 of the dozen IPs that Sony plans to have with GaaS released by March 2016 (Destiny may be included as 4th) already are in the market.
How do you know the pitched the project?
 

Yurinka

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MLB has been on the market for years and has always done decent. GT as well and I don't see them providing numbers to back up this claim. Firewall might be a Bomba but thts in VR lol thy couldn't possibly expected tht to be a gaas machine. Nah this comment doesn't hold up.
Yes, MLB has been in the market for many years doing a good job, but as I remember the first MLB that moved to GaaS approach was MLB 21. In Sony's fiscal reports at the time they mentioned that the switch to GaaS was going to be big and important change, and later they highlighted in a report that the game was very successful and even highlighted improvement in their fiscal reports, and for MLB 22 too.

They didn't share specific numbers, but Gran Turismo 7 had the best launch month in the history of the series in US (biggest gaming market) and also achieved great sales in the other tracked countries and regions, etc. Back in December the GT series achieved 90M copies, which meant GTS+GT7 sold 10M copies in 4 years and a half.

Regarding Firewall Ultra yes, it's a VR game so I assume they don't expect it to be the next Fortnite: I assume their expectatives is that it will be pretty niche as usual in VR.

How do you know the pitched the project?
People from Naughty Dog like Druckmann mentioned multiple times they pitched their projects. Same goes with SSM, Cory or Jaffe mentioned they pitched their games. The Days Gone directors also explained that their studio is who pitches the games to Sony. Hermen also mentioned that the studios are the ones who pitch them their games.

It isn't something rare, when I did work at Ubisoft we also pitched our own games. In my case I event went once to the HQ to make a final greenlight approval meeting with the editorial team to convice them to greenlight our next game, a new IP that we were pitching to them.
 
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