"Consoles will never die" - Mike Ybarra

[Yurinka]

I think many people prefers to play in the living room, sitting in the sofa in a big display.

TVs may evolve and who knows if replaced in the future by something like a new type of projectors, smart paint in the wall, some holographic stuff, AR or something like that. But the concept will remain the same: a big display to play in the living room.

Same goes with the console: it may change or evolve, but the concept of having a dedicated gaming device to play there will continue. Doesn't matter if controllers evolve into something different (remember the ones in the 70s/early 80s), or if the hardware inside the consoles evolves to something different (I think they evolved to be tweaked PC hardware and in the future the PC, console and mobile hardware will merge into a single hardware type), or if in the future the concept of remote play and cloud gaming evolves gets more popular.

I think maybe in the future the console will be only a splittable gamepad that you'll be able to attach to the sides of your phone or tablet transforming it in a Switch-like device, or use it with AR/glasses, or to play the mobile games or PC in the tv via remote play using the pad as a normal controller, or maybe consoles end getting as small as a chromecast connected to the tv or even get integrated in the tv, or maybe a portion of the people plays via cloud connecting the gamepad to the tv or to the smartphone or PC. Or maybe consoles continue being as they are now.

But the concept will be the same: you play in your living room with a big display and a controller plus pretty likely some dedicated gaming device, mainly games from digital stores owned by Sony, Nintendo and others (which in the future I assume will be hardware agnostic: you buy their game once and via crossbuy can be played in their dedicated gaming device/console, in a smartphone/table, in a PC (desktop/laptop/handheld variants) or in the cloud.

And Steam Deck sold like what... 3 million units?

We have no idea. It has been permanently as one of the top selling products in Steam for years, so I assume it should be above that. But not in PS/Nintendo device numbers.

 

[Monkeyclaw]

You do realize Steam Deck sale's are crap, that thing is probably not even at 3 million. Also buying a Steam Deck in 2024 is a huge risk, you're at risk of not being able to run many new releases. None of the PlayStation PC ports will run on Steam Deck and that's just 1 example. No Black Myth Wukong, no Space Marines 2. I could go on and on.

People expecting a portable device to run the games you just named shouldn't be into gaming.

Everyone who actually does due diligence knows this. 3 million for a non Nintendo/ Sony niche device is bad now!? HOLY SHIT
Talk about clueless....

 

[Johnic]

People expecting a portable device to run the games you just named shouldn't be into gaming.

Everyone who actually does due diligence knows this. 3 million for a non Nintendo/ Sony niche device is bad now!? HOLY SHIT
Talk about clueless....

Considering you PC gamers tout PC gamer numbers, yes, it's bad. It's bad without all the player number metrics.

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

Nothing is forever.

 

[Monkeyclaw]

PC users tries to say PC are like console but that is the biggest bullshit they created to fell better.

VERY narrowminded of you. What defines a console:

- Turn it on and launch your game (My "pc" starts in Steam BigPicture mode and boots silently. No Windows nothing)
- Form Factor (My "pc" is in a SFF housing, looks like a Xbox Scorpio with mild obesity)
- Plug and Play (My "pc" accepts all periperhals and installs them in the background without notification)
- Couch comfort (My "pc" is connected to the tv and I can start it with a controller)

So your opinion is now null and void since a PC is malliable. Consoles arent.
The only diffence between my box and others is a known logo which is absent.
It's now 100% a console going by the definition.

An Xbox is essentially based on PC components but limited by the OS. But we call it a console because of the above.

I turned my pc into a console. Now id like to see you do the opposite. All within the limits of the OS and hardware which is available.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

 

[Monkeyclaw]

Considering you PC gamers tout PC gamer numbers, yes, it's bad. It's bad without all the player number metrics.

Opinions and facts are not the same young Padawan. Valve begs to differ.
As I said (what you ignored to fit your agenda) its a niche product. This is no secret. And for a niche device it sold bloody well.

Now lets talk about Stadia, Nvidia Shield etc. Yeah Steamdeck did well for what it is. Stop denying it.

 

[ethomaz]

VERY narrowminded of you. What defines a console:

- Turn it on and launch your game (My "pc" starts in Steam BigPicture mode and boots silently. No Windows nothing)
- Form Factor (My "pc" is in a SFF housing, looks like a Xbox Scorpio with mild obesity)
- Plug and Play (My "pc" accepts all periperhals and installs them in the background without notification)
- Couch comfort (My "pc" is connected to the tv and I can start it with a controller)

So your opinion is now null and void since a PC is malliable. Consoles arent.
The only diffence between my box and others is a known logo which is absent.
It's now 100% a console going by the definition.

An Xbox is essentially based on PC components but limited by the OS. But we call it a console because of the above.

I turned my pc into a console. Now id like to see you do the opposite. All within the limits of the OS and hardware which is available.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

If you believe console is just these point then that is the whole point that you don't understand why consoles are different from PC.
There is different in ecosystem on PC since the base hardware until the software.

Did you ever tried to use a PC monitor as TV? There are more issues than solutions.
Did you ever tried to use a PC in a TV? There are more issues than solutions.
Did you ever tried to use a console with a monitor? There are more issues than solutions.
Did you ever tried to add soundbar, cable box, fire stick like devices, etc to the mix?
Every time you try to mix these two worlds you have to accept compromisses in one side or another.

Console consumers are not open to deal with these issues neither compromisse anything... they don't need.
PC consumers are so used to these issues that things they are something so normal to the point to believe their experiences are like console owners experiences lol

Everything is based in PC like components since these hardware started to exists.
It doesn't matter if in the past it used a RISC processor... it was still a processor... memory even on very old console were PC-like... components of PC, Mac, PowerPC, Solaris, AIX are very similar... they come from the same manufacturers too.

I'm not even sure if we use the PC as the IBM PC model because today it set apart a lot from that model.
In the past you called PC as being x86 machines... today that is not true anymore.
Today you have ARMs CPU inside PCs.

So back to the console... there 3 key pillars that defines a console that doesn't apply to PC:

• HARDWARE: No, no, no... not the hardware inside the machine... the hardware itself can be anything (ARM, x86, PowerPC, etc etc etc)... what defines a console hardware is that that hardware follow the hardware standards of living room PCs.... the hardware needs to follow the specs of plug in play around the living room devices... ARC, eARC, HDMI, DHCP, HDR, VRR, Remote Control, etc etc etc
  The console needs to easy (plug in play) communicate with all these devices without issues or tricks.
  It needs to be part of the living room ecosystem just like TVs, Soundbars, Home Theaters, TV Boxs, etc.
• SOFTWARE OS: A console OS is not muti-purpose... it is set to the single tasks related to games... from start to end it design is to allow consumer to play games... it doesn't have the issues or tricks of a multi-task OS like Steam Deck does... Steam Deck is just a theme running over a multi-task OS and with that you have issues you won't have on consoles... you don't need to fear a update driver breaking your game... you don't need to fear something changing and affecting you.
  Plus that OS needs to control and support all the living room hardware standards we talked about without any consumer interference... it should be simple as plug the cable and it is working.
  Again try to make your PC console-like to deal with the standards of living room... I mean not even HDR works correctly on PC because there is no standard in PC world... each one implement HDR like they believe it is best way lol.
• SOFTWARE GAMES: Games on consoles are not tailored to multi everything... not multi hardware config, multi hardware vendors, multi inputs, etc etc... Console games are designed to single fixed hardware with it own inputs devices.... most of gaming issues on PC due the multi-face of PC are non-existent on console... you don't have shuters from shader compilation on console... you don't have issues with the several types of setthings you have on PC.. you are not a Tester guy that needs to test everything until find a solution that works best for your hardware.
  You have the same experience across all console users since start.

No matter how you try to spin... PC will never reach these 3 key pillars because IT IS NOT PC GOAL TO REACH TEM.
In fact PC aim is to set it apart from these 3 key pillars.

And the industry doesn't care about that.
A PC device doesn't care about living room standards... and a living room device doesn't care about PC multi faced standards.

Can a PC device like Steam Deck someday become closer to a console?
Yes... if some day Valve remove the PC useless for console features, develop a OS that receive native games without any muti-task focus, remove the Wine translation, create a SDK to develop games specifically to Steam Deck without tie with PC like multi-faced purpose, and support all living room standards... maybe you can have a console like device.

But what you have today for a console point is a imitation... and a bad imitation.
Steam Deck is a great PC portable machine and that is all.

You guys needs to use more consoles.
Compare the experience you have on Switch vs the experience you have on Steam Deck before think PC devices are like consoles.

 

[ethomaz]

I mean a simple example using Steam Deck...

Last year it received VRR support ***

*** Linux doesn't support HDMI 2.1 so the only way to get VRR in Docked Mode working is using a DisplayPort connection... something which most TVs doesn't support because it is not a living room standard lol

See? That is not console like experience... and people will come here and says... Linux is open source you can open the source code and implement HDMI 2.1 support yourself.

Totally console consumer friendly lol
And PC guys believes they live a console like experience
I mean maybe any type of UI trick you do on PC will feel leaps ahead to what they used that they will believe they reached a console like experience
Not even NES these weird PC "console-like" experiences... well I say NES because I started there but I played a bit of Atari so even Atari had a better console-like experience than what Steam Deck users believe to have.

 

[arvfab]

I mean a simple example using Steam Deck...

Last year it received VRR support ***

*** Linux doesn't support HDMI 2.1 so the only way to get VRR in Docked Mode working is using a DisplayPort connection... something which most TVs doesn't support because it is not a living room standard lol

See? That is not console like experience... and people will come here and says... Linux is open source you can open the source code and implement HDMI 2.1 support yourself.

Totally console consumer friendly lol
And PC guys believes they live a console like experience
I mean maybe any type of UI trick you do on PC will feel leaps ahead to what they used that they will believe they reached a console like experience
Not even NES these weird PC "console-like" experiences... well I say NES because I started there but I played a bit of Atari so even Atari had a better console-like experience than what Steam Deck users believe to have.

A bit naive of you to only observe the current situation. Progresses in this regard have been huge in the past years.

Also funny to use VRR as an example, as PS5 didn't get it until Sony decided to.

Even more so when consoles themselves are losing more and more the benefits of consoles, with software updates at every corner, be it the games, the systems or the peripherals. And yes, all of them had cases where it broke something (in response to your other post regarding the fear of updates).

With cross-gen and multiplatform games even from 2 of the 3 console manufacturers, the point regarding single-hardware tailored games has become obsolete, too. Especially if taking into consideration multiple differently-specced hardware versions, like the S or the Pro.

Games on consoles now have different graphic modes or - on PlayStation - you have to watch out if you install the PS4 or the PS5 version if both are available.

Long gone are the days of just "plug and play", unfortunately.

 

[John Elden Ring]

That's debatable, Blockbuster said the same thing on home video.

No one has yet to deliver a good enough streaming gaming service it starts to bankrupt PlayStation and Xbox.

 

[ethomaz]

A bit naive of you to only observe the current situation. Progresses in this regard have been huge in the past years.

Also funny to use VRR as an example, as PS5 didn't get it until Sony decided to.

Even more so when consoles themselves are losing more and more the benefits of consoles, with software updates at every corner, be it the games, the systems or the peripherals. And yes, all of them had cases where it broke something (in response to your other post regarding the fear of updates).

With cross-gen and multiplatform games even from 2 of the 3 console manufacturers, the point regarding single-hardware tailored games has become obsolete, too. Especially if taking into consideration multiple differently-specced hardware versions, like the S or the Pro.

Games on consoles now have different graphic modes or - on PlayStation - you have to watch out if you install the PS4 or the PS5 version if both are available.

Long gone are the days of just "plug and play", unfortunately.

Current situation?

PC users keep paying to themselves having console like experience for decades already.

It is nothing new. And nothing changed.
New living room standards will come and new console will support it… PC not.

 

[ethomaz]

That's debatable, Blockbuster said the same thing on home video.

No one has yet to deliver a good enough streaming gaming service it starts to bankrupt PlayStation and Xbox.

Video can be buffered and streamed without any loss… if what you want is just to watch somebody play a game it is perfectly fine today.

But to play games via Streaming will never substitute playing game in local hardware because there is a physical barrier that can’t be broken… the experience in input and display response will never be the same.

That is why the situation with video is different… game requires player input… watching a movie not… games can’t be buffered… videos can.

It will never be the same to transfer data in a 1-2 meters cable compared with several kilometers cable.

 

[arvfab]

Current situation?

PC users keep paying to themselves having console like experience for decades already.

It is nothing new. And nothing changed.
New living room standards will come and new console will support it… PC not.

Again, it's very naive to think things aren't changing and won't change further in the future.

And it's changing in both ways. One of the most requested features was native 1440p support for the PS5. You have now dedicated, official software on PC to configure your Edge controller. You have hardware to connect the PSVR2 to PC (if your PC is not capable already).

If you want console and PC to be two separate things, you should start to be pissed about this stuff, as it's only the beginning.

But to play games via Streaming will never substitute playing game in local hardware because there is a physical barrier that can’t be broken… the experience in input and display response will never be the same.

Weren't you the one wanting some kind of server side processing/functionality even in single player games in order to counter piracy on PC?

 

[ethomaz]

Weren't you the one wanting some kind of server side processing/functionality even in single player games in order to counter piracy on PC?

Server logic in PC games yes.... it doesn't need to be real time... it can be asynchronous or something that doesn't rely on low response times.
And that is on PC only to counter piracy.

Console actually doesn't need it... at least while console can be controlled by the hardware updates to avoid piracy.
Remember piracy on console is basically non existent... even when a hacker open a console to play hacked games it only works for old games while that console stay limited to play old games, never update firmware and never sign in in PSN.

That is another disadvantage in PC to fight against piracy.
In PC if you are banned for hack in one game you can continue playing others games... one game won't affect other.... so you can play new games or even update them.
On consoles if you are banned for hack... your whole console is banned and it can't be update or play others games than these old ones you already have hacked.
The consequences are way more drastic than what you have on PC... on PC you have barely any limitation/consequence if you hacked or pirated a game.

The nature of PC platform doesn't allow you to go strong against hacking and piracy... so you can only focus in what is in your hands... your own servers imo.
In that point... thinking against piracy... Streaming games on PC makes way more sense than PC even if you lose in response time.

Each platform... it own set of issues... different solutions to each.
That again shows you how PC and console are very different from each others... the experiences, issues and solutions are not the same.
PC will never had a console like experience like consoles will never had a PC like experience.
They are different.

 

[Systemshock2023]

PCs will never be as easy to use as a console. However, massive strides have been made since the mid 00s: Back then, even configuring a controller was a PITA, hell there were lots of games that didn't have controller support, just because. Updates... patches, quality of ports... it was very hit or miss. Just grab a PC game from before say... 2008. Chances are you will need a fix here and there. With fixes, it becomes the best version of the game by a country mile. But its not that simple to set up.

Steam and XInput, those are the 2 pillars that cemented PC gaming into what it is today and brought it back from the dark ages of the mid 00s.

For consoles, it is the other way around. Compare a console before the PSP and after. No big OS, no patches, graphics settings menus even. Console gaming got more complex.

 

[Shmunter]

Pc usability sucks dick, even launching games from steam sometimes results in a uac action requiring bs intervention. It’s impossible to replace console with a pc for the great unwashed. Console strength is in it being an applience device, plug and play and a fixed level of quality shared between millions of gamers.


Where pc shines is ability to revisit a backlog with superior results. Only way I can play Batman Origins is either at 720p/30fps on 360 - or full fat 4k/60 on pc no wakkas. Also comprehensive emulation is a plus - still playing Breath Of the Wild 4k/60 via moonlight on my theatre - magic.

There is place for both - but console wins out for me in 90% of scenarios.



Edit : However, PRO consoles need to be good and ready. Wu Kong, Alan’s Wake 2, Starwars Outlaws and many to come I’m sure are looking very creaky on current Gen. The techniques used are beyond what the hardware offers and results are disappointing. Yes, more polish and better tech decisions can alleviate shoddy results - but UE5 is here to stay and things will just be downhill from here imho. The pro better be UE5 optimised - which I suspect is the aim with a good degree of collaboration between Sony and Epic.