Cultural appropriation, revision of history or just appreciation of the culture. What are your thoughts on Yasuke in the new Assassin's Creed.

[Would_you_kindly]

What information was there written about a magically supercharged Rodrigo Borgia fighting a time traveller?


From your posts, it's obvious that you're ok with developers taking liberties with historical characters like Rodrigo Borgia and William Adams. For example, I don't remember it being recorded that Borgia had magical powers, but that's cool. I also assume you're ok with them having fictitious characters, considering you haven't mentioned massive issues with other games of the franchise. I also assume you're ok with main characters being people that were not typical in the environment they are portraid, as demonstrated by William Adams.

Considering you don't mind all of those, what's the problem?

You're just looking for an argument & I'm not going to rise to it. You may aswell just shout racist at me & be done with it.

 

[Darth Vader]

You're just looking for an argument & I'm not going to rise to it. You may aswell just shout racist at me & be done with it.

I'm showing you how your logic is deeply flawed. You're the one making conclusions, considering I didn't say or hinted at anything.

That's kind of the entire point of creating art (alongside creative expression). Something needed for entertainment. And also, Shadows could end up completely sucking as a game but I strongly doubt one of the leads being a black guy is going to be the reason for that, IF it happens.

We all forgot to mention that some of the same lot have issues that the game has a fictitious female main character, because:

• There were no female Shinobi (which for all we know is correct, even though the name exists)
• If you're having an historical character as main, may as well just have the other too
• It's not historically accurate

This opens issues, because we now need to make a case for hating every single Assassin's Creed game that had a fictitious character as its main.

 

[Would_you_kindly]

Was talking about the tweet quoted on the "they" part, not you specifically.

As for the dev of one game being Japanese and the other being French, I don't necessarily see why that would matter. For me, that steeps into the stupid idpol talking points where only someone of that cultural background should be "allowed" to tell stories featuring that culture or aspects of that culture.

Quite frankly, that's an incredibly idiot thought that I know some far-leftist types conceptualized and push. But it's very ironic seeing far-right types try weaponizing the same idea to go after games like Shadows. I think if you're a real creative, you're not going to let your own cultural background prevent you from telling stories about other cultures or drawing inspiration from other cultures.

That's kind of the entire point of creating art (alongside creative expression). Something needed for entertainment. And also, Shadows could end up completely sucking as a game but I strongly doubt one of the leads being a black guy is going to be the reason for that, IF it happens.

I don't agree with the guy that said 'wewuzsamurais' I was just sharing it because I honestly thought that article was real at first because it's the kind of nonsense you'd see kotoku shitting out

It could be a great game & I'll admit I was wrong if that's the case I never claimed that assassin's creed has ever been historically accurate

 

[Gamernyc78]

Then what is it, then? Because I've ran through arguments accounting for "historical accuracy" when previous games were never close to being truly historically accurate, either, and no one was complaining then.

No one was complaining about the protagonist from Nioh, either, and that dude's not Japanese.

I'm still waiting for a good explanation from the people furious about it. I heard that Yusuke was the only playable character and that would have been a legitimate reason to be mad...except that's not true. You can play as Naoe as well.

Of course you won't read the many other posts. I don't get involved in to much discourse when certain ppl see things a certain way due to their paradigms and political ideologies. A few characters been black and most didn't gaf due to their race. Spiderman/Miles, GTA V one protagonist, Prototype 2 I believe, a few others. Just like the lead I'm Days Gone got slack not for being white but a biker hillbilly. I noticed ppl like to cry out loud and make something out of nothing. We live in a world where no one ever is in agreement so finding a few ppl against it says shit you have ppl tht still say the world is flat. You've seen the dialog most ppl have issue with the revision of history and sensationalizing the character as if he was a samurai and a major part on Japan, tht has been what I see most ppl tall about.

Not saying you but damn there sure are some real super leftist on here and I considered myself at one point progressive and left leaning  let's omit the whole convo about ppl not liking the character being portrayed as this super killer samurai because we just have to believe it's racist. Thts how cancel culture works and Ive seen it alot here born and raised in nyc in public housing and I myself facing discrimination in the past but I still call a spade a spade and see things how it is.

Anyway no more politics talk for me. I appreciate both sides of the argument like I said before just don't shut out other's opinion just bcus thy don't align with agendas and narratives.

 

[Sircaw]

Of course you won't read the many other posts. I don't get involved in to much discourse when certain ppl see things a certain way due to their paradigms and political ideologies. A few characters been black and most didn't gaf die to their race. Spiderman/Miles, GTA V one protagonist, Prototype 2 I believe, a few others. Just like the lead I'm Days zone git slack not for being white but a biker hillbilly. I noticed ppl like to cry out loud and make something out of nothing. We live in a world where no one ever is in agreement so finding a few ppl against it says shit you have ppl tht still say the world is flat. You've seen the dialog most ppl have issue with the revision of history and sensationalizing the character as if he was a samurai and a major part on Japan, tht has been what I see most ppl tall about.

Not saying you but damn there sure are some real super leftist on here lol and I considered myself at one point progressive and left leaning

Stop watching MSNBC, you leftist loon.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Stop watching MSNBC, you leftist loon.

I know you are right. Nah I woke up a long time ago with the further erosion of my neighborhoods and crazy policies tht hurt us more than help us.

 

[Sircaw]

I know you are right. Nah I woke up a long time ago with the further erosion of my neighborhoods and crazy policies tht hurt us more than help us.

I remember seeing a video of people looting a store, they walked out with thousands of dollars of designer gear, the shop assistant phoned the police, later on the store owners fired the assistants for calling the police lol.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I remember seeing a video of people looting a store, they walked out with thousands of dollars of designer gear, the shop assistant phoned the police, later on the store owners fired the assistants for calling the police lol.

..

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Of course you won't read the many other posts. I don't get involved in to much discourse when certain ppl see things a certain way due to their paradigms and political ideologies. A few characters been black and most didn't gaf die to their race. Spiderman/Miles, GTA V one protagonist, Prototype 2 I believe, a few others. Just like the lead I'm Days zone git slack not for being white but a biker hillbilly. I noticed ppl like to cry out loud and make something out of nothing. We live in a world where no one ever is in agreement so finding a few ppl against it says shit you have ppl tht still say the world is flat. You've seen the dialog most ppl have issue with the revision of history and sensationalizing the character as if he was a samurai and a major part on Japan, tht has been what I see most ppl tall about.

Not saying you but damn there sure are some real super leftist on here lol and I considered myself at one point progressive and left leaning

Well first off let me get this point straight: I'm no leftist. I'm not on the right, either. In fact, I hate everything about modern politics and at best would probably be classified as an Independent. As far as I'm concerned, I'd prefer it stay that way.

But to the other stuff...I have read the other posts. I read everyone's posts, and you're right that certain people view it certain ways because of ideologies, political in this case. Your point on the character being "sensationalized" is a perspective of the people complaining about sensationalism; simply stating that Yusuke as an individual existed isn't sensationalizing him. A few artistic liberties here and there (which has always been the case with other characters based on real people in video games) isn't doing that, either. You're right though, that there have been other black lead characters in various games and most people didn't care. Some did care; a few for possibly legit reasons, and others because, well, they're bigots.

So the issue with modern discourse is twofold: on one hand you have people who are afraid of calling others bigots when they show their ass and basically reveal such. Whether purposefully or by accident, say for example because they can't articulate their reasons without avoiding coming off a certain way, well that's on them. The other side of things, though, is we have too many shit-stirrers in the hobby and medium who take a few bad apples, a few outcries here and there, and then harp on those like they represent the majority of the discourse.

That second part is something a lot of Western media are 100% guilty in doing, but I think a lot of gamers in the hobby are just as guilty for falling for it. Every. Single. Time. So now you get people making this about black people, as if they were a collective or forced Ubisoft to make Shadows the way they did. And the part where you see a lot of people subtly and not-so-subtly go after the group that's basically being weaponized for agitprop, is very annoying to me. It just shows that people really are mostly stupid and will always be played as fools because they can never see that both sides are being manipulated. And it's also just poor taste because by going after the group being weaponized, these clowns are actually just empowering more stuff like this to happen in the future, not less.

Like it isn't that hard to say you have a bit of caution to the choice & portrayal of Yusuke as a character in the game, without sounding like you have an issue with black people in general. Yet more and more as this stuff goes on, more people basically start sounding "like that". They do this to themselves; I just take notice and adjust interactions accordingly.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Well first off let me get this point straight: I'm no leftist. I'm not on the right, either. In fact, I hate everything about modern politics and at best would probably be classified as an Independent. As far as I'm concerned, I'd prefer it stay that way.

But to the other stuff...I have read the other posts. I read everyone's posts, and you're right that certain people view it certain ways because of ideologies, political in this case. Your point on the character being "sensationalized" is a perspective of the people complaining about sensationalism; simply stating that Yusuke as an individual existed isn't sensationalizing him. A few artistic liberties here and there (which has always been the case with other characters based on real people in video games) isn't doing that, either. You're right though, that there have been other black lead characters in various games and most people didn't care. Some did care; a few for possibly legit reasons, and others because, well, they're bigots.

So the issue with modern discourse is twofold: on one hand you have people who are afraid of calling others bigots when they show their ass and basically reveal such. Whether purposefully or by accident, say for example because they can't articulate their reasons without avoiding coming off a certain way, well that's on them. The other side of things, though, is we have too many shit-stirrers in the hobby and medium who take a few bad apples, a few outcries here and there, and then harp on those like they represent the majority of the discourse.

That second part is something a lot of Western media are 100% guilty in doing, but I think a lot of gamers in the hobby are just as guilty for falling for it. Every. Single. Time. So now you get people making this about black people, as if they were a collective or forced Ubisoft to make Shadows the way they did. And the part where you see a lot of people subtly and not-so-subtly go after the group that's basically being weaponized for agitprop, is very annoying to me. It just shows that people really are mostly stupid and will always be played as fools because they can never see that both sides are being manipulated. And it's also just poor taste because by going after the group being weaponized, these clowns are actually just empowering more stuff like this to happen in the future, not less.

Like it isn't that hard to say you have a bit of caution to the choice & portrayal of Yusuke as a character in the game, without sounding like you have an issue with black people in general. Yet more and more as this stuff goes on, more people basically start sounding "like that". They do this to themselves; I just take notice and adjust interactions accordingly.

I understand. There is alot of different discourse running around this game I just think it definitely isn't mostly centered around race but hey I know others feel differently.

 

[BroodCorp]

My honest opinion on this is it's assassin's creed , yes they take liberties with historical accuracy but to take the 1 case of a black man in feudal Japan & make him the protagonist is ridiculous especially when there's so little information of him written & there's so many actual Japanese people they could've used for their first 'historically accurate' protagonist , people saying everyone that doesn't like it are racist are ignorant , I loved assassin's creed origins playing as a black man in Egypt

It’s absolutely a fear response to social chatter calling out games for their lack of representation.

With that being said the world is still only a small percentage white, so even with this latest push to diversify games and movies, they’re still over represented in media.

 

[Sircaw]

The other side of things, though, is we have too many shit-stirrers in the hobby.

Are you purposely targeting me with that quote?

 

[Exicide]

I think anybody that accuses someone else about "culture appropiation" deverves to be thrown through a cliff.

Regarding wokism yes, you have a black and woman main characters because of wokism. In this case to place a black guy in feudal Japan may be weird, but it's true that in this century Portuguese and Spanish brought there black slaves and servants. They were a very small part of the population, but there were many of them.

Yasuke was a real black guy brought there as a Portuguese Jesuist priest bodyguard, a very tall (188cm when average people were around 150cm) and muscular guy. Nobonaga Oda, one of the big lords of the time, got very impressed because he was the first black guy he saw and made him bath in front of him to see if he really was black. Bathing him shown him even more black.

He liked Yasuke, and claimed he had the strength of ten (Japanese) men, so "adopted" him, trained him as his personal bodyguard and also as the guy who carries his weapons -so pretty likely a samurai-, and gave him a personal house, and also allowed him to live in his castle and he also supposedly got his own personal weapons. So maybe wasn't a real/proper samurai, but did put him in his close circle, Nobunaga for sure didn't consider him a random slave or servant: respected him and was confident with him, making him part of his inner circle in a warring period where there were a ton of spies/ninjas waiting to kill or poison these lords everywhere.

Yasuke fought in different battles under Nobunaga's orders until Nobunaga got killed by other lord, they got defeated and had to surrender. That other lord decided to don't kill Yasuke because "he's an animal and knows nothing", so Yasuke got free and nothing is known from him in historical records, even if it's assumed that he travelled back to his home African country.

Most of these things obviously aren't confirmed historically, but there are many hints that lead to think he wasn't a random guy, and for sure he got in the inner circle of Nobunaga, which today would be the equivalent of being a SVP of Sony or Blackrock.

I think yes, they forced to put there a black guy because of wokism, but also think that the story of Yasuke is interesting and could be a cool character, as happened in Afro Samurai.



She is a kunoichi, a female shinobi/ninja. Who were normally used as spies or honey traps to seduce, poison and kill targets, who sometimes even fucked or even married.

So their role was a different from the traditional (male) ninja, who often were also spies and sometimes also assassins.

Actually, he was brought by an Italian Jesuit, Alessandro Vaglinano i think is his name, Yasuke was his previously unnamed bodyguard. Alessandro had an audience with Oda Nobunaga who was in awe at the sight of Yasuke, he asked Yasuke to wash his skin to prove he is not painted. His skin stayed black of course and Nobunaga was impressed and for the lack of better words right now, infatuated. He asked the Jesuit if Yasuke could stay here with him, the Jesuit agreed.

Under his time there, he was made a personal retainer to Oda Nobunaga, the other retainers around Nobunaga (also Samurai) were the ones who wrote about him, more specifically, Ōta Gyūichi. He was the one who wrote about Yasuke being formidable and as strong as ten men, he also wrote that Yasuke was paid a stipend (most likely for bodyguard work, which he already did before, but now with this context, he would be a Samurai) given a sword, and his own land.

There's definitely a lot more who wrote about Yasuke, but it's all fragmentary. In all, Luis Frois, Ota Gyuichi, Matsudaira Ietada, Jean Crasset, and Francois Solier all wrote about Yasuke.

When the time came for Oda Nobunaga to be betrayed by Akechi Mitsuhide, there is conflicting information, some say they thought it was a fight in the street until the other Samurai were seen, Nobuanga was fighting until his elbow was injured with a spear, he was forced to retreat into the far back of his castle, with Yasuke at his side.
There, he was told to help complete Nobunaga's Seppuku with decapitation and to warn Nobuanga's son, Nobutada, that Akechi Mitsuhide is a traitor and that they are under attack. Some sources say that he carried Nobunaga's head to Nobutada and some say he finished Nobunaga's Seppuku, then went to warn Nobutada.

Now, here's also where some of the history gets a little bit foggy. It is known that he confronted Akechi's forces at Nobutada's palace, sources differ on whether he fought until his defeat or he fought until Nobunaga's army's surrender, at the behest of Akechi's forces. This is when Akechi Mitsuhide was asked what to do with Yasuke. To which he said " He is not Japanese and like that of an animal" so he was spared and sent away to a mission located in India which is his last recorded piece of history that has been located about Yasuke.

I am sorry for going "ackshually" but you have some of the information wrong and I just wanted to clarify.

 

[anonpuffs]

The funny thing about this whole debacle is that not a single soul knows how the game is yet.

Yasuke could be an incredibly well written character and the story could be rich and fulfilling and moving.

Or it could be dogshit with liberal fanfic nonsense and just an excuse to monetize asian culture.

Yet the twitter nerds are sooooo quick to jump to the culture war, merely based on the existence of a black co-lead. Y'all need a better hobby.

 

[Sircaw]

Yasuke was a real black guy brought there as a Portuguese Jesuist priest bodyguard,

If what you say is true, then consider this.

I was born in Africa:

@Satoru is portuguese:

That means I could claim reparations from him as there is a good chance he/his ancestors enslaved my people.

Time to pay the hell up, Redneck!

 

[Exicide]

An unsourced article that cannot be found on google's first page (I can't even find it, period), written by an author that also does not show on google's first page (and I also cannot find this person).


So what you're saying is that some people are really pissed about a non-article?

leave it up to grifters to make a fake article... It doesn't even show when using the quotations either.

can't believe people do this shit. The sentence under the title and name is the same, but the title and the name are different.

 

[Yurinka]

If what you say is true, then consider this.

I was born in Africa:

@Satoru is portuguese:

That means I could claim reparations from him as there is a good chance he/his ancestors enslaved my people.

Time to pay the hell up, Redneck!

Well, in addition to this the Jesuist/Christian priests let's say they are known for "liking" kids, and apparently Yasuke before being "hired" as "bodyguard" was a probably war child. Being 188cm pretty likely he had a large black "snake" (maybe even he was the equivalent to the "Whatsapp Black Guy" celebrity of the times), like the one I see in Nobunaga's depiction in Pokemon:

Please also notice Nobunaga had a Freddy Mercury like mustage.

So be careful @Satoru with what @Sircaw asks you to do, he may ask you to be his "bodyguard"

Actually, he was brought by an Italian Jesuit, Alessandro Vaglinano i think is his name, Yasuke was his previously unnamed bodyguard.

I watched it and yes. The Jesuists who were in charge of that Asian region were Portuguese, but he was Italian.

Alessandro had an audience with Oda Nobunaga who was in awe at the sight of Yasuke, he asked Yasuke to wash his skin to prove he is not painted. His skin stayed black of course and Nobunaga was impressed and for the lack of better words right now, infatuated. He asked the Jesuit if Yasuke could stay here with him, the Jesuit agreed.

I think what Nobunaga wanted to see and what really impressed him was the size of the "snake", not his color xDDD

I am sorry for going "ackshually" but you have some of the information wrong and I just wanted to clarify.

No problem, it was just what I remembered. Once this controversy started I went to watch a few talks from proper historians and yes, what you say it's true. With the exception of a few details, since apparently all retainers being samurai (all samurai were retainers but not all retainers were samurai), so wasn't clear if he became samurai and if in case of him being samurai if he fought in the couple battles where he participated (I'd bet yes, if he was considered strong and a bodyguard, but these folks were generally so fucking racists and xenophobic and very strict with their rules and we know Nobunaga made many exceptions with him, loved the western stuff and him personally since became very close, part of his inner circle).

With this "snake" theory who knows, maybe he really was his lover xDD

Regarting the head it wasn't clear of what really happened with him and the head, and apparently for these folks the head was important because if the invader kept it gave him rights to keep that land, so wanted his family to keep it and hide it. Or something like that, can't remember it.

 

[Darth Vader]

If what you say is true, then consider this.

I was born in Africa:

@Satoru is portuguese:

That means I could claim reparations from him as there is a good chance he/his ancestors enslaved my people.

Time to pay the hell up, Redneck!

I think my ancestors were all peasants, but I'll send you a couple of Chicken's and some tomatoes and grapes.

 

[Darth Vader]

The funny thing about this whole debacle is that not a single soul knows how the game is yet.

Yasuke could be an incredibly well written character and the story could be rich and fulfilling and moving.

Or it could be dogshit with liberal fanfic nonsense and just an excuse to monetize asian culture.

Yet the twitter nerds are sooooo quick to jump to the culture war, merely based on the existence of a black co-lead. Y'all need a better hobby.

And the fantastic thing is that if the history is incredible and fulfilling the usual suspects will dog whistle their way into ignoring it, whereas if the story is shit they will say "I told you so".

 

[Sircaw]

I think my ancestors were all peasants, but I'll send you a couple of Chicken's and some tomatoes and grapes.

I will take them;

I actually really like Nandos.

South African Portuguese too.