Does traditional PC gaming have a future?
- Thread starter Cool hand luke
- Start date
Considering Steam keeps breaking records left and right, everyone voting that traditional PC gaming does not have a future, is wrong.
Forwarded this to Sony executives, once again with terrible timing.
Denuvo is the only thing keeping AAA PC devs alive.
PC is all about piracy, hacking, GaaS, esports and F2P.
Denuvo is the only thing keeping AAA PC devs alive.
PC is all about piracy, hacking, GaaS, esports and F2P.
Pretty much, PC gaming hasn't been this competitive with consoles since the mid-late 90s.
We're far from the late 00s and early 10s days where PC was at its weakest(unless you count the 70s and 80s).
I'd limit that timeframe from mid 00s through the late 00s. By the early 10s PC gaming started gaining Steam (pun intended). Lots of folks started moving from consoles as the 7th gen lasted way too long and low end rigs were leaps beyond ps360. I remember that a 7750 was maxing out 7th gen games at 1080p. Battlefield 3 on PC felt like an entirely different game than on consoles.
I suspect this generation will end up the same. We had recession, pandemic and good ol Moore's law slowing down as usual. Don't see new consoles releasing until 2028 at the earliest.
I still think that years like 2010-2012(3)~ were still pretty lackluster for PC anecdotally speaking.
We can look at the Steam CCU growth curve to get some inkling on that front.
Things clearly started picking up 2013 onwards and by the true mid 2010s(2015) the acceleration is clearly apparent.
Post COVID curve is ridiculous though, a real shift in consumer spending that seemingly hasn't stopped in growth just yet.
I do think that for the more enthusiast crowd, consoles are at a weird crossroad for this gen.
In a way, it was too early(AMD related).
Nvidia is leading the charge when it comes to Ray tracing capable GPU(and software solutions) and RDNA2 was clearly not ready enough as shown by the sacrifices some games are forced to make.
But yeah PS6/Xbox(whatever it ends up being) will be the first console(s) to be fully capable of the full gamut of what developers want to do right now in terms of graphical rendering but mostly can't right now on dedicated hardware.
Although to be fair, I'm more interested in CPU innovations in the upcoming years.
We're sort of running into a wall right now until we see some real change in design(chiplet designs/3D stacking, etc...) things are not really going to move much.
Seeing many people throwing random uninformed opinion and takes, I think it's important to share this:
In the '70s and specially '80s there was a lot of European and Asian data missing because there was a ton of untracked business relaated to small companies making games for computers and arcades, in many cases pirate or bootleg versions of arcade games, clone consoles, indie games for computers etc. being sold without paying taxes, people didn't give shit about copyright because without internet peolpe in foreign countries wouldn't going to notice, etc.
Plus back on the time there wasn't industry wide or even country wide tracking of sales outside a few countries like USA, Japan and maybe UK.
But from the mid '90s until today this graph is accurate.
In the '70s and specially '80s there was a lot of European and Asian data missing because there was a ton of untracked business relaated to small companies making games for computers and arcades, in many cases pirate or bootleg versions of arcade games, clone consoles, indie games for computers etc. being sold without paying taxes, people didn't give shit about copyright because without internet peolpe in foreign countries wouldn't going to notice, etc.
Plus back on the time there wasn't industry wide or even country wide tracking of sales outside a few countries like USA, Japan and maybe UK.
But from the mid '90s until today this graph is accurate.
Let ppl have their own opinion. These types of posts do not promote gd discussion.
Who is this? This guy joins the forum and immediately starts defending PC?!? Is this @flaccidsnake alt account?
No. Defending PC? If that means to actually argue and ask for data to back information up, yes by all means Im defending PC.
You’re not fooling anyone buddy. The data is up your butt and around the corner
Just like the PlayStation blog has become the PC blog
You’re not fooling anyone buddy. The data is up your butt and around the corner
Im not fooling anyone about what?
OP
OP
For starters, this is completely at odds with the 2023 chart posted earlier. Secondly, no, PC is not larger than consoles. Sony made 30b on console gaming alone last calendar year (PC sales were negligible, as always). I tried to look up the source of that fantastical chart but Pelham Smithers has nothing about it on their site.Seeing many people throwing random uninformed opinion and takes, I think it's important to share this:
In the '70s and specially '80s there was a lot of European and Asian data missing because there was a ton of untracked business relaated to small companies making games for computers and arcades, in many cases pirate or bootleg versions of arcade games, clone consoles, indie games for computers etc. being sold without paying taxes, people didn't give shit about copyright because without internet peolpe in foreign countries wouldn't going to notice, etc.
Plus back on the time there wasn't industry wide or even country wide tracking of sales outside a few countries like USA, Japan and maybe UK.
But from the mid '90s until today this graph is accurate.
It sounds like those estimating PC to be of size are just buying into hype, because as we've seen, consoles software dwarf PC sales by 5:1 in the UK. That's not including gaming subscriptions (PS+) or console DLC. Not sure why PC DLC didn't even get its own segment. Must be even smaller. The rest of Europe won't differ too much even though they skew towards PC more, and that plus the US is about it for markets. China won't let you in, Korea doesn't care about your games, India is mobile, not PC.
Some people are so stuck in the infinite growth mindset that they think:
a) Consoles needs to grow to survive, which is absurd, because their problem is not existential. They command the most consolidated and efficient portion of the market.
b) Engagement matters over dollars. As if paid actors with light-up rigs are more of a draw than a PS5.
But PC is in danger - no growth and no avenues for it.
And it seems like most agree with me based on the poll.
No arguments here; this much is true.
Also no arguments here. MS messed up big time trying to chase PlayStation when they should've been doubling-down on PC. They can still actually do that, but it'd mean shifting hardware priorities to PC while leveraging console design knowledge & their volume of scale (both of which outclass Valve considerably) to their advantage, and stop seeing PlayStation & Nintendo as competitors.
Yeah, this has been happening and potentially at the future detriment of PlayStation console sales. Almost all of Sony's 1P PS4 AAA lineup aside Bloodborne, GT Sport, The Order 1886, Infamous: Second Son, Killzone: Shadowfall, and Driveclub (6 games) have been ported to PC by now or announced for a PC port. All of Sony's 1P PS5 & PS5/PS5 AAA lineup besides Demon's Souls Remake, GOW Ragnarok, GT7, and Spiderman 2 (4 games) have been ported to PC or announced for a PC port.
Considering the Nvidia leak's been accurate, and both GOW Ragnarok & GT7 were on that leak, timed with the announcement of PSVR2 compatibility for PC, and we can assume those ports are imminent. So that just leaves Demon's Souls Remake and Spiderman 2. I'm only stating the facts of the situation, but that doesn't mean I think this reality is best for Sony and providing value to their PlayStation consoles...because it isn't.
I'll put it this way...both Steam and GOG have at least 10x the number of genuine exclusives that PS5 has, and Sony's short-sighted goal of quickly porting their 1P to the platform (particularly the non-GAAS titles) within 1-2 years (though in some cases as soon as 6 months) with nothing 1P-wise of equivalent that is new and exclusive to their current-gen console, is not a good cycle to establish. That just devalues the consoles in the long-term, there is no virtuous cycle with that approach.
I think you mean "varying degrees of failure".
TBF, consoles were officially banned in markets like China until 2020, so if you wanted to game in those places, and do so officially, you didn't have a choice other than PC, since they weren't classified as gaming devices per-se (and how they avoided bans).
So the truth is, if consoles were legal in many of those markets for as long as they've been in the West, we'd probably see very similar levels of console dominance in them compared to computers. Japan is a great example of this, but it's not the only one. I think some of you conflate PC's modern-day popularity in these markets as if it was always the choice, when reality is, they were legally the ONLY choice for decades.
That makes the growth for consoles in those markets a steep hill to climb; it's not impossible but, again, platform holders like Sony doing what they're doing isn't helping their consoles gain significant market share in those countries when it very well could.
I don't really doubt that myself, and I also think some of the OP speculating PC gaming is dying is overblown. PC software sales of AAA games may be a lot smaller compared to consoles but there are some MASSIVE GAAS and F2P games on PC whose revenue wouldn't be counted towards B2P sales. Two of those are Valve's own exclusives on Steam like DOTA 2 and Counterstrike 2.
Without that data (and similar), you can't really know the revenue in gaming being generated between console and PC, tho I'd expect it to be somewhat close when the global markets are included, and console taking the majority for B2P sales revenue of AAA and AA games. But all of this is really just serving my point: people who keep saying the "console war" is over for PlayStation because of what may (or may not) be happening with Xbox, are being short-sighted. I would say the pressure is on for PlayStation to be more unique and more valuable than ever, because whatever competition Xbox isn't bringing, Steam and Nintendo will DEFINITELY be bringing to make up for it.
And, with the cross-proliferation of 3P titles being so high between Steam and PlayStation in particular (and, if it meets good enough spec requirements, expect similar with Switch 2) means that ironically, Sony's PC porting strategy has been making the PS5 a worst value proposition over time as more of their 1P lineup gets ported to storefronts like Steam in short and shortening windows, and there not being enough new exclusive 1P content on PS5 to make up for the loss in those 1P exclusives AND the various once-defacto 3P exclusives now going multiplat (including Day 1 on Steam).
People thinking that won't have a negative effect on PlayStation, are probably the same who deny PC Day 1 having any contribution to the decline of Xbox consoles. Sony is not impervious to that type of decline, and it would be notable as its effects grow exponentially the more time passes. People going "well Sony isn't doing Day 1 for their AAA games!" don't understand: they don't HAVE to in order to create the same type of effect. There are more games releasing than ever. There are more 3P Day 1 releases on PC from Western, Japanese & other regions than ever. There are very few people who only play Sony 1P AAA games.
Meaning, they can probably do with waiting for eventual PC ports of those games, especially if they're "only" 6 months-2 years from the initial console release. It's not that hard to stay away from story spoilers, and if those users are on PC, Nintendo or wherever they will have a lot of 3P games and other 1P games to play (plus all of Microsoft's games) while they wait for the inevitable Sony ports.
That's why Sony need to significantly adjust their porting strategy, IMO. The windows need to be longer (4-6+ years), they shouldn't be porting all of their games over (even among GAAS), they need more 1P AA games, they need to consider turning the bigger games into expansion-sized installments that can release every couple of years at cheaper prices (no more than $30 each), they should probably consider per-game subscriptions (pay installments for non-GAAS, maybe perks for GAAS titles), etc. It doesn't mean cutting PC altogether; for example in isolation there's no problem with Until Dawn remake being Day 1 on PC, or even GOT getting its PC port 4 years after the console one. I don't even think there's an issue really with doing remasters on Microsoft or Nintendo platforms, or some AA games Day 1 on mobile. I talked about all of this in my big Sony/SIE write-up.
But I don't think Sony's current strategy publicly is implementing these things at all, or of what is being implemented, doing so in a way that's virtuous where it always leads back to something new exclusively for the console. Considering companies like Valve, Nintendo etc. have similar if not even more hardline stances on exclusivity and leveraging it for platform differentiation, I don't see why Sony should be singled out to not hold that type of idea just because Microsoft are going completely platform-agnostic because, again, Xbox is hardly PlayStation's only competitor. It's just the most blatantly direct among them.
The "some people" who think this are leaders at Playstation.
If you want console exclusives, and you want production values to grow, then obviously consoles need to grow. The top selling console of all time was PS2, which launched 24 years ago. Even if all Playstations sold in the ballpark of 150M, that would be a problem. Nobody based in reality believes Playstation can have a 300M LTD console any time soon. Playstation is right to bet on bigger content investments through multiplatforms rather than stagnating content based on console exclusivity.
Of course 'engagement' doesn't matter over dollars. Engagement is a measure based on the expectation of dollars. Engagement without dollars is called losing.
"Yes, and it's gonna grow" is winning lol
Seeing many people throwing random uninformed opinion and takes, I think it's important to share this:
In the '70s and specially '80s there was a lot of European and Asian data missing because there was a ton of untracked business relaated to small companies making games for computers and arcades, in many cases pirate or bootleg versions of arcade games, clone consoles, indie games for computers etc. being sold without paying taxes, people didn't give shit about copyright because without internet peolpe in foreign countries wouldn't going to notice, etc.
Plus back on the time there wasn't industry wide or even country wide tracking of sales outside a few countries like USA, Japan and maybe UK.
But from the mid '90s until today this graph is accurate.
OP is talking about B2P sales of AAA and AA games. In that context, they are 100% correct: console is much larger than PC for that segment of the gaming market globally.
This graph is excluding hardware & peripheral revenue, and including GAAS & MTX/add-on content revenue. Considering there are several big exclusives in that sector on PC like DOTA 2, League of Legend, World of Warcraft, CounterStrike 2, VALORANT & others, and considering how big many of them in various global markets, plus there being so many more PC games in general when you include legacy content, then the graph makes more sense.
Though it is probably underrepresenting console revenue to some degree, and it doesn't give any indication of profit margins (where I'd assume console wins out, especially for new releases).
OP
OP
Some great posts here from the UK thread detailing international shares and revenue splits for major publisher/games between consoles (basically PS5) and PC. On what planet would PC be larger when the ratios are this lopsided in consoles' favour?
icon-era.com
icon-era.com
UK Monthly Charts-PS5 #1, Helldivers 2 consecutive weeks sales growth (up 115% in week 2, up 21% week 3). A hit on both PC/PS5 with 57% sales on PS5!
I just realized. Rebirth digital ratio in UK is lower than FFXVI. Retail: Rebirth 29% up from FFXVI Retail + Digital: Rebirth 6% up from FFXVI So digital ratio were lower than FFXVI. The double pack seems like it didn1t worked in UK.
icon-era.com
UK Monthly Charts-PS5 #1, Helldivers 2 consecutive weeks sales growth (up 115% in week 2, up 21% week 3). A hit on both PC/PS5 with 57% sales on PS5!
I just realized. Rebirth digital ratio in UK is lower than FFXVI. Retail: Rebirth 29% up from FFXVI Retail + Digital: Rebirth 6% up from FFXVI So digital ratio were lower than FFXVI. The double pack seems like it didn1t worked in UK.
icon-era.com
Are we counting success as number of players or number of games sold?
PC gamers have a host of games to play, a crossing myriad developers, spanning decades. New games won't sell as well on a platform that has enough games to play to wait for a sale, Vs a console where releases are limited to that generation. (You can't play dagger fall on PS5, for example).
Ask yourself, if PC gaming is stagnating and not growing, why Microsoft and Sony would be so eager to launch their games on PC.
And...if PC gaming is dead, what does that say for games like Helldivers...is it dead too? (Hint: it isn't).
PC gamers have a host of games to play, a crossing myriad developers, spanning decades. New games won't sell as well on a platform that has enough games to play to wait for a sale, Vs a console where releases are limited to that generation. (You can't play dagger fall on PS5, for example).
Ask yourself, if PC gaming is stagnating and not growing, why Microsoft and Sony would be so eager to launch their games on PC.
And...if PC gaming is dead, what does that say for games like Helldivers...is it dead too? (Hint: it isn't).
Some great posts here from the UK thread detailing international shares and revenue splits for major publisher/games between consoles (basically PS5) and PC. On what planet would PC be larger when the ratios are this lopsided in consoles' favour?
UK Monthly Charts-PS5 #1, Helldivers 2 consecutive weeks sales growth (up 115% in week 2, up 21% week 3). A hit on both PC/PS5 with 57% sales on PS5!
I just realized. Rebirth digital ratio in UK is lower than FFXVI. Retail: Rebirth 29% up from FFXVI Retail + Digital: Rebirth 6% up from FFXVI So digital ratio were lower than FFXVI. The double pack seems like it didn1t worked in UK.UK Monthly Charts-PS5 #1, Helldivers 2 consecutive weeks sales growth (up 115% in week 2, up 21% week 3). A hit on both PC/PS5 with 57% sales on PS5!
I just realized. Rebirth digital ratio in UK is lower than FFXVI. Retail: Rebirth 29% up from FFXVI Retail + Digital: Rebirth 6% up from FFXVI So digital ratio were lower than FFXVI. The double pack seems like it didn1t worked in UK.
I still believe PC gaming is in a growing phase and will be for the foreseeable future and voted accordingly in the poll.
Steam CCUs growth YoY in general, games coming out every year breaking the all-time CCU records, genres that previously had very little audience on PC have grown too and many other metrics that point out to growth in the ecosystem in general.
But at the same time, that doesn't mean that I'm going full PCMR.