Flop! Metaphor: ReFantazio debuts at number 37 on Xbox (Atlus 35th Digital Anniversary Edition at number 555).

[saltyashell]

The over the top fawning around the game reminds me of how Xbots piggybacked Dragon's Dogma 2 earlier this year when people thought they could also prop it up as the "FF7 Rebirth slayer".

I'll eventually play all of them, but it's so clear that there's been a big push to denigrate FF7 rebirth from so many corners.

 

[voke]

The over the top fawning around the game reminds me of how Xbots piggybacked Dragon's Dogma 2 earlier this year when people thought they could also prop it up as the "FF7 Rebirth slayer".

I'll eventually play all of them, but it's so clear that there's been a big push to denigrate FF7 rebirth from so many corners.

People won't acknowledge it, but a lot of the hardcore gaming community has it out for Square Enix for partnering with PlayStation for the early gen (Forspoken, FFXVI and FF7R2). People reacting incredibly emotional about it wishing on FFs downfall as a result... when they could just realize business is business. For Sony to lock 3 AAA exclusives from them.... I'd imagine SE got a massive payday.

People don't even acknowledge how incredible the past 2 AAA FFs are.... just straight to sales and business talk *yawn*

 

[ethomaz]

Atlus and Square are at the top of the JRPG world. We are not in early 00s, Atlus is not niche anymore. Get with the times.

Calling it small and niche when Xbox was promoting it as a big tentpole release for them is disingenuous (Geoff, showcase, multiple promo spots).

You just want to continue your smear campaign against FF. Nobody in the world thought Metaphor was just some small JRPG.

XY X: Nordics just came out. That's an actual niche JRPG. Can you honestly say Metaphor was the same level of expectations as YS?

With exception of Personal 5 all Atlus JRPGs are niche... what are you talking about?

 

[quest4441]

I feel like the game got all the sales from the usual atlus fanbase rather than bring in a big crowd of new people. These games are a major time sink and commitment so new people mostly run off before even completing the tutorial or the first dungeon. The usual sales just split across 3 different platforms instead of achieving growth

 

[Gods&Monsters]

With exception of Personal 5 all Atlus JRPGs are niche... what are you talking about?

Metaphor got the full marketing and hype cycle of a full AAA release, same caliber as a new Persona or Final Fantasy and that is a fact. Atlus themselves said Metaphor was a new pillar for them (before release so they knew the budget they were putting into it). This is no Soul Hackers 2.

Only you, Ethomaz, thinks Metaphor is the equivalent of Octopath. Not Atlus, not Sega, not Xbox, not Square, not Era. Only you.

I've never seen this comparison until now. A 2D Nintendo Switch exclusive

 

[voke]

Metaphor got the full marketing and hype cycle of a full AAA release, same caliber as a new Persona or Final Fantasy and that is a fact. Atlus themselves said Metaphor was a new pillar for them (before release so they knew the budget they were putting into it). This is no Soul Hackers 2.

Only you, Ethomaz, thinks Metaphor is the equivalent of Octopath. Not Atlus, not Sega, not Xbox, not Square, not Era. Only you.

I've never seen this comparison until now. A 2D Nintendo Switch exclusive

FFXV---->Forspoken is an infinitely better comparison.

Team uses their resources to make new IP, retains some of the DNA of their last project.

 

[ethomaz]

I feel like the game got all the sales from the usual atlus fanbase rather than bring in a big crowd of new people. These games are a major time sink and commitment so new people mostly run off before even completing the tutorial or the first dungeon. The usual sales just split across 3 different platforms instead of achieving growth

Seems like that is the case.
To be fair only Persona 5 broke that Atlus fan base bubble until now.

 

[ethomaz]

Metaphor got the full marketing and hype cycle of a full AAA release, same caliber as a new Persona or Final Fantasy and that is a fact. Atlus themselves said Metaphor was a new pillar for them (before release so they knew the budget they were putting into it). This is no Soul Hackers 2.

Only you, Ethomaz, thinks Metaphor is the equivalent of Octopath. Not Atlus, not Sega, not Xbox, not Square, not Era. Only you.

I've never seen this comparison until now. A 2D Nintendo Switch exclusive

Yeap the new pilar like Persona was when was created lol
Took 5 games to reach where it reached.

C'mon.

The closest game from Square Enix that is like what happened to Metaphor is indeed Octopath Traveler.
A new turn-based IP JRPG.

 

[voke]

The over the top fawning around the game reminds me of how Xbots piggybacked Dragon's Dogma 2 earlier this year when people thought they could also prop it up as the "FF7 Rebirth slayer".

I'll eventually play all of them, but it's so clear that there's been a big push to denigrate FF7 rebirth from so many corners.

And then exposed themselves of being utter tourists, speaking ill on Dragons Dogma 2 for being...... Dragons Dogma. Not to mention the misinformation around microtransactions (they were utterly useless and didn't ruin game balance.)

As a fan of DDDA and someone who waited over 10 years for that sequel, the discourse was more insufferable than any other game franchise I've been a fan of to date.

 

[Gods&Monsters]

Yeap the new pilar like Persona was when was created lol
Took 5 games to reach where it reached.

C'mon.

The closest game from Square Enix that is like what happened to Metaphor is indeed Octopath Traveler.
A new turn-based IP JRPG.

Atlus called it a new FLAGSHIP and 3RD PILLAR for them. Show me where Square put the whole marketing machine behind Octopath $5 budget??

Metaphor: ReFantazio Aims to be “a Third Pillar” for Atlus

Director Katsura Hashino is hoping that the upcoming fantasy RPG will stand alongside Persona and Shin Megami Tensei as one of Atlus' flagship properties.

gamingbolt.com

I rest my case

 

[ethomaz]

Atlus called it a new FLAGSHIP and 3RD PILLAR for them. Show me where Square put the whole marketing machine behind Octopath $5 budget??

Metaphor: ReFantazio Aims to be “a Third Pillar” for Atlus

Director Katsura Hashino is hoping that the upcoming fantasy RPG will stand alongside Persona and Shin Megami Tensei as one of Atlus' flagship properties.

gamingbolt.com

I rest my case

Yeap it is a new IP.
You build it releasing games.
You just don't know how to read it.

They indeed created a third pillar for the Studio... they never talked about the popularity because you know with new IP you need to grow it over time.
Everything they said in this article they achieved.

I have no doubt Metaphor franchise have the potential to become bigger even surpassing Persona.
The game is really good.

 

[Impulse]

Partnering with Square for the PS5 with exclusives like Forspoken, foamstars and the FF sequels … was a mistake from Sony. Didn’t move the needle. Square ain’t shit compared to From software etc.

Square is a bad bet outside of FF14. Will continue to be until their house is in order. 1997 was a long time ago…

Exactly.

It would not surprise me if Sony was the one to walk away from the Square deals and not vice versa.

Square deserves to get dunked on after releasing one of the best games of the year... sure

Square had the easiest ask in the world (FF7 remake) and managed to not only do it way too late, they also made it into an unnecessarily massive AAA trilogy that fucks with the original story and changes the playstyle completely (which actually alienates fans). AND they somehow duped themselves into thinking that Sequels sell the same or better than the original for some reason.

The game may be v.good from a design perspective, but the market and franchise planning is something you should be firing people over, not celebrating.

Square needs to start putting its house in order and stop catering to the egos of its superstar game designers:

- Sakaguchi wants to make a movie, he makes an insomnia treatment instead and almost brings the company to bankruptcy.

- Nomura and Kitase fuck around with the easiest assignment in life and manage to deliver a cluster fuck that doesn't please existing FF7 fans nor brings in enough new fans to offset the deficit.

- Yoshi P wants to make a modern FF, and manages to deliver one of the most controversial FFs to date with zero RPG elements and boring-ass MMO sidequests, and its a game that won't run on %75 of all the machines out there (console or PC).

Square has a history of indulging its Superstars and giving them way too much freedom.

Even smaller companies like Falcom manage to do better JRPGs than Square, let alone Sega. Look at Sega losing Nagoshi (Yakuza creator) and not losing a single step.

Is it still a flop? It’s only reached #10 in PS US store and is at #16 now on Xbox US store when you cut out duplicates which PS store doesn’t count. So not bad all things considered.

#16 is a strong result for a non-exclusive JRPG on Xbox btw.

Update: flopping in the UK too, debuts at number 7 - Can you imagine the reaction if FF16 or FF7R had debuted at number 7?

UK Charts: Zelda Falls From The Top Five As New Releases Shake Things Up

It's dangerous to go alone

www.nintendolife.com

Silent Hill at number 2

I swear to God people are being intentionally stupid at this point.

A top 10 launch is never considered a flop, especially when the game budget is tight and under control (as Sega always does).

 

[Gods&Monsters]

#16 is a strong result for a non-exclusive JRPG on Xbox btw.

It's not number 16, I see it at 20+ and no it's not good for a new release to be so low. Everything else above came out earlier.

I swear to God people are being intentionally stupid at this point.

A top 10 launch is never considered a flop, especially when the game budget is tight and under control (as Sega always does

No, is it the first time ever you look at a sales charts?

If FF16 or FF7R was number 10 you would not be here because the world would be ended. Rebirth was cheaper because all the assets were already done for FF7R. Did you see anyone bring that up? No! The expectations were the same.

Metaphor was 7 years in the making, 100+ hours RPG. I doubt it was cheap.

 

[Impulse]

It's not number 16, I see it at 20+ and no it's not good for a new release to be so low. Everything else above came out earlier.

I'm not even the person who claimed it was #16, I was reacting to the person who said it was.

No, is it the first time ever you look at a sales charts?

If FF16 or FF7R was number 10 you would not be here because the world would be ended. Rebirth was cheaper because all the assets were already done for FF7R. Did you see anyone bring that up? No! The expectations were the same.

Metaphor was 7 years in the making, 100+ hours RPG. I doubt it was cheap.

How was Rebirth cheaper to make when basically all the locations minigames etc were all new and made with cutting edge graphics? They have the designs ready to go from the original so it's cheaper?

Metaphor is a brand-new franchise, of course it's going to take significantly more time to make. The big difference is the focus on art style instead of graphical fidelity and optimization.

 

[Say1nMan]

Metaphor sold well for its genre. The game hits the number that alot of JRPGs have as well. Tales of Arise, Like a Dragon, some past Persona games all sold a million at launch. The bigger test for Atlus moving forward is obviously Persona 6. Will Persona 6 do more at launch like 3 million or so?

 

[voke]

Square had the easiest ask in the world (FF7 remake)

Bringing back your most iconic game completely remade for tech almost 30 years in the future is the opposite of "easiest ask" That is a very difficult type of project to work on lol, give me what your smoking pls.

every sales thread has been about Rebirth for the entire year for whatever reason...

 

[Impulse]

Bringing back your most iconic game completely remade for tech almost 30 years in the future is the opposite of "easiest ask" That is a very difficult type of project to work on lol, give me what your smoking pls.

So the solution is to change everything about it except for aesthetics?

Sometimes life brings you a simple slam dunk: Make FF7 with better graphics and voiced dialogue.

It's really not that complex, fucking Konami and Bloober Team did it with Silent Hill 2!

 

[DarkLordOtaku]

So the solution is to change everything about it except for aesthetics?

Sometimes life brings you a simple slam dunk: Make FF7 with better graphics and voiced dialogue.

It's really not that complex, fucking Konami and Bloober Team did it with Silent Hill 2!

I just finished SH2 the other day, such a great game imo. The immersive audio is chefs kiss.

As for FFVII Remake, I think Square actually did an incredible job with the remake. I played through the entire FF franchise for the first time this year in chronological order (for games which share chronology). While FFVII was no doubt influential for its time, it did not age as well as other entries in the franchise. The "Remake" of FFVII hit the action movie style notes the original game was aiming for, but was held back graphically due to when it released.

As for Metaphor, I haven't had a chance to play it, but am certainly interested that Atlus is trying out a new IP.

 

[Impulse]

I just finished SH2 the other day, such a great game imo. The immersive audio is chefs kiss.

As for FFVII Remake, I think Square actually did an incredible job with the remake. I played through the entire FF franchise for the first time this year in chronological order (for games which share chronology). While FFVII was no doubt influential for its time, it did not age as well as other entries in the franchise. The "Remake" of FFVII hit the action movie style notes the original game was aiming for, but was held back graphically due to when it released.

As for Metaphor, I haven't had a chance to play it, but am certainly interested that Atlus is trying out a new IP.

I'm saving FF7 Rebirth for when I get the PS5 Pro, or whenever it comes on PC (whichever comes first). My brother in law loved it tho and I saw him play through some of it. It's not that it isn't a good game, it is, the problem is, you can't make a trilogy and then be surprised that sales are shrinking as you go. Until that entire trilogy is out there, your ceiling for every title is going to be the people who bought the preceding one.

Metaphor is fantastic so far, there's a lot of Persona in it, but it's different enough to feel fresh, and the art style is great too.. Just wish it had antialiasing tho.

 

[DarkLordOtaku]

I'm saving FF7 Rebirth for when I get the PS5 Pro, or whenever it comes on PC (whichever comes first). My brother in law loved it tho and I saw him play through some of it. It's not that it isn't a good game, it is, the problem is, you can't make a trilogy and then be surprised that sales are shrinking as you go. Until that entire trilogy is out there, your ceiling for every title is going to be the people who bought the preceding one.

Metaphor is fantastic so far, there's a lot of Persona in it, but it's different enough to feel fresh, and the art style is great too.. Just wish it had antialiasing tho.

Agree on the topic of a trilogy. FFVII's 1997 story did not have enough content to support 120+ hours of gameplay split across three games and multiple years between releases. In some respects, I'm a bit disappointed they've invested so much development resources into the trilogy, instead of writing a new numbered entry. I thought FFXVI had some of the best written side quests, and was significantly more streamlined than previous games. I'm really interested to see where they go with the next entry in the anthology.

Metaphor is wishlisted for me (as I'm in a bit of JRPG fatigue mode), but definitely want to give it a try if it goes on Steam sale for the holidays.