From 2017-2023, the console games market has grown +59%. PC only +37%; has shrunk since 2022

[J_Paganel]

As someone who played on PCs since the 90s, PC has never been this boring both in the hardware and in the software front.

PC gaming, in the early and mid-2000s - AAA RTS, tactics, and real next-gen projects that impress even after 18 years (World in Conflict, C&C3, Warhammer DoW). And it didn't even require a high-end PC.

PC gaming after Daddy Gaben saved it - ports of console projects, millions of indie trash, and the dominance of GaaS.

Against this backdrop, Nvidia is promoting RTX, which is making a whole set of effects that didn't require many resources disappear from games. If they are not removed, it is very difficult to sell RTX.

And as soon as Sony and other studios started taking steps towards PC, the quality of games dropped and the number of single releases decreased.

 

[Yurinka]

Do you really believe console only had $30b in revenue in 2022? That's pretty much how much Playstation made by itself, not counting nintendo or xbox. It's even funnier that the other graph you showed completely contradicts the first one. 30b or 53b which one is it?

This graph is totally incompatible with logic. At no point in the last however long has PC revenue eclipsed consoles, and certainly not to the point where it would have reached 1.5x the revenue 2 years ago.

Yes, I believe console GAME REVENUE had around $30B in 2022 (game sales + game addons). The $53B graph from Newzoo also includes game subs revenue (PS+, GP, Nintendo Online, EA Play, Ubisoft+, GTA+ are all included there), this is why it gives more. None of them includes there revenue from console hardware, accesories, ports to non-console platforms, movie adaptations etc.

So the $30B graph doesn't include all SIE revenue, only the segments of "Physical Software", "Digital Software" and "add-on content" from FY21Q4 (402.462M yen) +FY22Q1(305.254M yen) +FY22Q2 (369.977M yen)+FYQ3 (601.603M yen). So for the natural year 2022 they did 1.679.296M yen ($11.07B with current exchange, not inflation adjusted) in "game revenue" (not including game subs).

The Newzoo one also includes game subs, so in case of Sony "network services" (104.423M + 106.523M + 117.006M + 122.201M = 450.153M yen ($2.97B with current exchange, not inflation adjusted).

Meaning, for the Visual Capitalist graph Sony provided around $11.07B and for the Newzoo one of 2022 (not the 2023 I posted above) provided around $14.04B, around a third more when adding game subs.

Regarding the growth over years, you have to consider that the Pelham Smithers/Visual Capitalist graph is inflation adjusted to 2022. Meaning, the growth you'll see there is smaller than the growth seen when looking at a non-inflation adjusted graphs, like the ones Newzoo does.

The graph is not only compatible with logic, it matches the numbers provided by the industry. Your made up guesses with no factual data backing them are not logic or reality: it's only your personal guess.

Not even you believe that, but you keep trotting it out.

Console gaming and mobile gaming are the only segments which continue to grow, while PC, as this thread points out, has actually shrunk in the last year.

I believe in factual numbers, like the ones provided by these and other market analysis firms who get the data from the national publisher/devs associations, publishers and the platforms.

Not in magical made out numbers whose source is your ass.

 

[rofif]

New gpu - bigger, more power, more expensive.... Could use some change in form factor... idk, slot cpu into graphics card, get rid of separate ram, change or remove motherboard, change 24pin to "not exist". If you got someone from the late 90s to put together a new pc today, they would have 0 issues. It's all still the same.
yeah, we got sata cables.... 12pin connectors for gpus which are crap, huge coolers, pointless water cooling and nice looking cases. But it's still all the same.
The biggest change was m.2 form factor for storage. Never I've been happier than to ditch the fucking sata cables and connectors and just have it all on motherboard.

I am not a big fan of pc gaming lately but generally it's fine. Seems to me that it's HUGE and way bigger than it ever was so I am surprised it's the opposite.
I personally choose ps5/4/console gaming most of the time because I always had been wasting time when playing on pc. You have to visit pcgamingwiki or steam forums with every new release. There is usually something small to know. None of it is hard but it's just annoying busywork... and when I get to the game, I like knowing what options do and if it doesn't run satisfactory, making a decision which setting to sacrifice is always a big testing for me lol. I could've probably opened a pc port analysis channel back in the day I still have old graphics cards, 3 old working pcs with win95 and 97, crt montiors. I love 90s pc gaming. I have 3dfx voodoo 1 from diamond monster!

I was big onto pc gaming since 1997 to around 2008. I got 360 in 2008 for gta4 release and it was incredible. I fell in love with console gaming.
I did fell off of it around 2012-2013 and went big back to pc gaming. You know, 1060, 2070 and so on.
I scuffed at xbox one and ps4 because there was no huge jump like with 360... but PURELY BY RANDOM CHANCE, when christmass shopping in december 2017, I saw ps4 slim... I barely was aware slim even existed. It was 200$ at media markt. I felt the need to get it for whatever reason. I bought it, asked my wife to get my bloodborne and the last guardian and there it was.... I fell in love again. Finished all uncharted games and uc4 became one of my favs, same with bb, tlg and ton of other games. And I fell of pc gaming again. I did got 3080 on it's release, I ugprade my mouse, keyboard and case.... I kept everything in top shape.
But for last few years I don't upgrade much if anything (Just got this sweet 8bit do keyboard. fucking amazing keyboard I tell you) since I don't use it much.
Most new games I get on ps5. even multiplatform ones like Elden Ring or AC6. I did got RESI4 remake on pc since I have all resi games on steam and I fucked around with it so much. The damn thing crashed all the time and it took me some time to figure out it was RT setting. So I wasted hours not playing.
New games like hogwarts Legacy play just amazing on ps5. The haptics add so much!

Console/ps5 offers me:
-physical media
-dualsense haptics
-3d audio and great headset like pulse 3d and now pulse elite (love it, works on pc too)
-Exclusives
-Plug and play
-Modes although I am not a fan of modes.
-I don't mind 30fps, ff16 played amazing, rebirth at 30 played amazing. I loved 360. That thing was never 30 lol. Even in the 90s, voodoo1 was not doing 60 on anything. 20-30 mostly. I am used to it and all the "no 60 no buy" is a fake gamer rhethoric I can't understand. You get used to it in 15 minutes.

Getting an LG Oled c1 was the biggest upgrade ever lol. that thing either with ps5 or pc is better than any stupid graphics card upgrade could give me.
I like steam and I have 600 games there. I don't mind digital on pc because I have access to my files and I can backup or crack the games. No such thing on ps5.
In the end, current console gaming looks great, plays great and going crazy on pc feels like a hard mode for fools. Pay more, get more problems for what? more fps and real 4k instead of checkerboarded? I don't care. yeah, dragons dogma 2 plays fine on ps5. yeah it dips to 20s... so what? It plays fine.

tl;dr pc sucks, ps5 rulez

 

[Gediminas]

New gpu - bigger, more power, more expensive.... Could use some change in form factor... idk, slot cpu into graphics card, get rid of separate ram, change or remove motherboard, change 24pin to "not exist". If you got someone from the late 90s to put together a new pc today, they would have 0 issues. It's all still the same.
yeah, we got sata cables.... 12pin connectors for gpus which are crap, huge coolers, pointless water cooling and nice looking cases. But it's still all the same.
The biggest change was m.2 form factor for storage. Never I've been happier than to ditch the fucking sata cables and connectors and just have it all on motherboard.

I am not a big fan of pc gaming lately but generally it's fine. Seems to me that it's HUGE and way bigger than it ever was so I am surprised it's the opposite.
I personally choose ps5/4/console gaming most of the time because I always had been wasting time when playing on pc. You have to visit pcgamingwiki or steam forums with every new release. There is usually something small to know. None of it is hard but it's just annoying busywork... and when I get to the game, I like knowing what options do and if it doesn't run satisfactory, making a decision which setting to sacrifice is always a big testing for me lol. I could've probably opened a pc port analysis channel back in the day I still have old graphics cards, 3 old working pcs with win95 and 97, crt montiors. I love 90s pc gaming. I have 3dfx voodoo 1 from diamond monster!

I was big onto pc gaming since 1997 to around 2008. I got 360 in 2008 for gta4 release and it was incredible. I fell in love with console gaming.
I did fell off of it around 2012-2013 and went big back to pc gaming. You know, 1060, 2070 and so on.
I scuffed at xbox one and ps4 because there was no huge jump like with 360... but PURELY BY RANDOM CHANCE, when christmass shopping in december 2017, I saw ps4 slim... I barely was aware slim even existed. It was 200$ at media markt. I felt the need to get it for whatever reason. I bought it, asked my wife to get my bloodborne and the last guardian and there it was.... I fell in love again. Finished all uncharted games and uc4 became one of my favs, same with bb, tlg and ton of other games. And I fell of pc gaming again. I did got 3080 on it's release, I ugprade my mouse, keyboard and case.... I kept everything in top shape.
But for last few years I don't upgrade much if anything (Just got this sweet 8bit do keyboard. fucking amazing keyboard I tell you) since I don't use it much.
Most new games I get on ps5. even multiplatform ones like Elden Ring or AC6. I did got RESI4 remake on pc since I have all resi games on steam and I fucked around with it so much. The damn thing crashed all the time and it took me some time to figure out it was RT setting. So I wasted hours not playing.
New games like hogwarts Legacy play just amazing on ps5. The haptics add so much!

Console/ps5 offers me:
-physical media
-dualsense haptics
-3d audio and great headset like pulse 3d and now pulse elite (love it, works on pc too)
-Exclusives
-Plug and play
-Modes although I am not a fan of modes.
-I don't mind 30fps, ff16 played amazing, rebirth at 30 played amazing. I loved 360. That thing was never 30 lol. Even in the 90s, voodoo1 was not doing 60 on anything. 20-30 mostly. I am used to it and all the "no 60 no buy" is a fake gamer rhethoric I can't understand. You get used to it in 15 minutes.

Getting an LG Oled c1 was the biggest upgrade ever lol. that thing either with ps5 or pc is better than any stupid graphics card upgrade could give me.
I like steam and I have 600 games there. I don't mind digital on pc because I have access to my files and I can backup or crack the games. No such thing on ps5.

tl;dr pc sucks, ps5 rulez

also, console offers HDR from plug and play.
how it is on PC?

 

[rofif]

also, console offers HDR from plug and play.
how it is on PC?

It used to work just fine on pc but since last year, HDR is broken on nvidia cards.
I start resi2, no matter if hdr is enabled in windows or not, it will switch it on if needed... but the game will be washed out despite tv reporting HDR.
Turns out there is an issue and you have to restart your pc and start the game asap. then hdr is deep and rich.
Known issue on nvidia forums. no solution aside from restarting... so every time I wanted to play resident evil 4, I had to restart the pc and then play.
Just annoying.

But if that thing worked correctly, then hdr is fine. there is hdr calibration too but not a single game uses it. But also very little games use ps5 hdr calibration values in system settings.

I would say HDR experience is better on ps5, not that it looks better but it just works.

 

[Cool hand luke]

Yes, I believe console GAME REVENUE had around $30B in 2022 (game sales + game addons). The $53B graph from Newzoo also includes game subs revenue (PS+, GP, Nintendo Online, EA Play, Ubisoft+, GTA+ are all included there), this is why it gives more. None of them includes there revenue from console hardware, accesories, ports to non-console platforms, movie adaptations etc.

So the $30B graph doesn't include all SIE revenue, only the segments of "Physical Software", "Digital Software" and "add-on content" from FY21Q4+FY22Q1+FY22Q2+FYQ3 (natural year 2022). The Newzoo one also includes "network services".

I'll edit this post later to add the specific amount.

Regarding the growth over years, you have to consider that the Pelham Smithers/Visual Capitalist graph is inflation adjusted to 2022. Meaning, the growth you'll see there is smaller than the growth seen when looking at a non-inflation adjusted graph.

The graph is not only compatible with logic, it matches the numbers provided by the industry. Your made up guesses with no factual data backing them are not logic or reality: it's only your personal guess.



I believe in factual numbers, like the ones provided by these and other market analysis firms who get the data from the national publisher/devs associations, publishers and the platforms.

Not in magical made out numbers whose source is your ass.

The Pelham Smithers chart is totally fictitious. On what planet does PC game revenue 1.5x console game revenue?

In the UK, the 6th largest economy, console game sales eclipsed PC by a factor of 5:1

Does traditional PC gaming have a future?

It's clear from the detailed stats in the UK last year that the current model of selling full-priced games to a dwindling audience just isn't working, for PC, that is...

icon-era.com

PC software sales totaled £243m last year. Sounds big, right? The problem is that console sales were £1.2 billion. That doesn't consider the revenue generated from console subscriptions and console DLC, which are even bigger.

In France, the 7th, console game sales eclipsed PC by a factor of 4:1

France 2023 VG Market: PS5 saves the day, PC tanks

After two years of shortage, the arrival of substantial stocks of PlayStation 5 consoles boosted French purchases significantly, reaching 6.1 billion euros. However, clouds are looming on the horizon. "There is a real disconnect between the video game market and the state of the industry," notes...

icon-era.com

At this point, I'll settle for PC stans showing me a single market in the same level of detail where the reverse is true, because it's increasingly clear that there is no possible way that PC is:
1) not dying
2) larger than consoles on any front

And by the by, your graphs are totally incompatible with each other even if you ignore sub revenue and focus on PC. One has PC at a laughable 45b and the other at 37.

 

[Yurinka]

The Pelham Smithers chart is totally fictitious. On what planet does PC game revenue 1.5x console game revenue?

In the UK, the 6th largest economy, console game sales eclipsed PC by a factor of 5:1

Does traditional PC gaming have a future?

It's clear from the detailed stats in the UK last year that the current model of selling full-priced games to a dwindling audience just isn't working, for PC, that is...

icon-era.com

In France, the 7th, console game sales eclipsed PC by a factor of 4:1

France 2023 VG Market: PS5 saves the day, PC tanks

After two years of shortage, the arrival of substantial stocks of PlayStation 5 consoles boosted French purchases significantly, reaching 6.1 billion euros. However, clouds are looming on the horizon. "There is a real disconnect between the video game market and the state of the industry," notes...

icon-era.com

At this point, I'll settle for PC stans showing me a single market in the same level of detail where the reverse is true, because it's increasingly clear that there is no possible way that PC is:
1) not dying
2) larger than consoles on any front

The Pelham Smithers, like the Newzoo and other ones, are estimations made with the available industry numbers at the time. Unlike Newzoo they don't include revenue from game subs.

Their graph is for the worldwide market, where UK and France are only a small part of it, and not representative because they are very different markets than USA or specially China, which are like 10 times bigger:

According to Niko Partners' report about the Chinese market in 2022 the Chinese "games market revenue split of gamer spend is 66% mobile, 31% PC, and 3% console games". They add "China continues to be the largest market in the world with 31.7% of global mobile games revenue and 33.4% of global PC games revenue generated domestically" and "Tencent (0700.HK) and NetEase (NASDAQ:NTES) commanded a combined 61% share for domestic PC and mobile games revenue in 2022".

Some 2022 USA usage data (not revenue, it's what I found with a quick search in my files) from ESA 2023 report:

2021 numbers in their 2022 report to see the change:

China and USA combined make roughly $90B/year in Newzoo's reports, aprox. the half of the worldwide game revenue for the year according to their estimates for the year, around $184B+ (please notice this wasn't thei most updated final 2022 data, this is a November 2022 estimate):

Some extra data from IDC+data.ai's Gaming Spotlight 2023 report comparing regional revenue for each hardware type (you'll see there why to grow in Asia is expanding in mobile and PC):

It's also worth mentioning that data.ai/IDC only covers iOS+Google Play for mobile. It doesn't include the Asian store like the Tencent etc. stuff.

In addition to this, the Pelham Smithers report does not include revenue from console game subs, hardware or accesories, which may be included on the UK/FR numbers you mention. It includes physical + digital game sales + digital game addons only instead.

Edit: in that IDC+data.ai report they have this other estimate, which put both console and PC at around $40B but not specifying if including game subs (they were wrong about predicting Xbox 2023 performance, it declined hard during 2023):

Regarding how credible these guys are, here's a list of IDC customers:

Newzoo:

 

[Cool hand luke]

Their graph is for the worldwide market, where UK and France are only a small part of it, and not representative because they are very different markets than USA or specially China, which are like 10 times bigger:

China yes, USA no.

According to Niko Partners' report about the Chinese market in 2022 the Chinese "games market revenue split of gamer spend is 66% mobile, 31% PC, and 3% console games". They add "China continues to be the largest market in the world with 31.7% of global mobile games revenue and 33.4% of global PC games revenue generated domestically" and "Tencent (0700.HK) and NetEase (NASDAQ:NTES) commanded a combined 61% share for domestic PC and mobile games revenue in 2022".

Correct. Tencent and Netease own the market, and China makes up a colossal part of the PC market, making PC global stats totally irrelevant to anyone trying to gauge the health of the market, or to anyone determining where to invest (console or PC).

Some 2022 USA usage data (not revenue, it's what I found with a quick search in my files) from ESA 2023 report:

2021 numbers in their 2022 report to see the change:

Could've saved us the trouble and not posted those. Usage data is equivalent to engagement stats, but even here consoles reign supreme.

In addition to this, the Pelham Smithers report does not include revenue from console game subs, hardware or accesories, which may be included on the UK/FR numbers you mention. It includes physical + digital game sales + digital game addons only instead.

Nope. Pure software sales.

On the revenue front, thanks to your supporting evidence, I see no dispute. Consoles dwarf PC.

Thanks for playing.

 

[arvfab]

The Pelham Smithers, like the Newzoo and other ones, are estimations made with the available industry numbers at the time. Unlike Newzoo they don't include revenue from game subs.

Their graph is for the worldwide market, where UK and France are only a small part of it, and not representative because they are very different markets than USA or specially China, which are like 10 times bigger:

According to Niko Partners' report about the Chinese market in 2022 the Chinese "games market revenue split of gamer spend is 66% mobile, 31% PC, and 3% console games". They add "China continues to be the largest market in the world with 31.7% of global mobile games revenue and 33.4% of global PC games revenue generated domestically" and "Tencent (0700.HK) and NetEase (NASDAQ:NTES) commanded a combined 61% share for domestic PC and mobile games revenue in 2022".

Some 2022 USA usage data (not revenue, it's what I found with a quick search in my files) from ESA 2023 report:

2021 numbers in their 2022 report to see the change:

China and USA combined make roughly $90B/year in Newzoo's reports, aprox. the half of the worldwide game revenue for the year according to their estimates for the year, around $184B+ (please notice this wasn't thei most updated final 2022 data, this is a November 2022 estimate):

Some extra data from IDC+data.ai's Gaming Spotlight 2023 report comparing regional revenue for each hardware type (you'll see there why to grow in Asia is expanding in mobile and PC):

It's also worth mentioning that data.ai/IDC only covers iOS+Google Play for mobile. It doesn't include the Asian store like the Tencent etc. stuff.

In addition to this, the Pelham Smithers report does not include revenue from console game subs, hardware or accesories, which may be included on the UK/FR numbers you mention. It includes physical + digital game sales + digital game addons only instead.

Edit: in that IDC+data.ai report they have this other estimate, which put both console and PC at around $40B but not specifying if including game subs (they were wrong about predicting Xbox 2023 performance, it declined hard during 2023):

Regarding how credible these guys are, here's a list of IDC customers:

Newzoo:

So China, the largest (by population) country in the world, where consoles more or less need to be imported (and therefore barely generate any revenue in the country itself) and in general, they are not allowed to use much more than PCs, is more representative than other countries....

And of course, let's take a look at the revenue based stats which ignore subs, which make a huge part of it on consoles...

 

[Yurinka]

thanks to your supporting evidence, I see no dispute. Consoles dwarf PC.

Thanks for playing.

Here we have another IDG number from Sony's report, showing this time $42 for PC and $55B for consoles in 2022, more similar to the Newzoo report. So it must mean this Sony one includes games subs revenue, while the other of the IDG report didn't:

The evidence says PC game revenue made in 2022 around $40-45B in game revenue, and consoles around $30-40B+ (more likely $40B).

Only if also including game subs revenue (which many people get to play online, not for the games) then consoles go up to $53-55B in console and PC $40-42.

Consoles only dwarf PC in your dreams.

 

[Yurinka]

So China, the largest (by population) country in the world, where consoles more or less need to be imported (and therefore barely generate any revenue in the country itself) and in general, they are not allowed to use much more than PCs, is more representative than other countries....

And of course, let's take a look at the revenue based stats which ignore subs, which make a huge part of it on consoles...

The country A has 10x times the revenue share than country B.

The country A is in the top grossing region that has around half of worldwide revenue, while country B is in the 3rd region that doesn't even make a fifth of the worldwide revenue.

Country A is in the region that has over half of the worldwide playerbase, while B is in the region that has 13% of the userbase.

So yes, country A is way more representative than country B when comparing revenue vs the global number (or userbase). These graphs are from Newzoo, which as I mentioned include game subs.

And no, consoles don't need to be imported in China. You can buy your PS5 there too.

C'mon, instead of posting the laugh emoji show any receipt with factual data proving this is wrong. Or at least provide any factual source to your bullshit fantasy claims of "consoles more or less need to be imported" and "they are not allowed to use much more than PCs".

 

[arvfab]

The country A has 10x times the revenue share than country B.

The country A is in the top grossing region that has around half of worldwide revenue, while country B is in the 3rd region that doesn't even make a fifth of the worldwide revenue.

Country A is in the region that has over half of the worldwide playerbase, while B is in the region that has 13% of the userbase.

So yes, country A is way more representative than country B. These graphs are from Newzoo, which as I mentioned include game subs.

And no, consoles don't need to be imported in China. You can buy your PS5 there too.

How is your mandarin these days?

 

[Cool hand luke]

@Yurinka do you not realise PC has subscription services available or is that just something you need to overlook to propagate the false narrative than PC software sales are higher than console software sales? Add in MTX and add in subscriptions and it's simply no contest. PC has declined from last year while consoles have grown.

Just to be clear, your argument is that game subs can bridge a 20-30b gap in console revenue (and are 66%+ as large as the software sales and MTX segment) but make no difference to PC spend, and in fact decrease PC spend when included, because...companies pay PC users for subscriptions and it counts as negative revenue?

Until you answer how one chart (imaginary Pelham Smithers guesses) can have PC at 45b and the other (Newzoo), which apparently includes more segments, at 38b, you can't use both charts and hold them to be of equal value.

 

[Yurinka]

How is your mandarin these days?

Ask your mom

 

[Gods&Monsters]

The PC market is actually growing in player base. Steam breaks its own record like every month

Meanwhile the console base hasn’t grown in how long? Since the PS2 gen?

How are you arguing literal facts? Like are yall dumb lmao?

Bots creating fake accounts to get XP in Counterstrike of whatever they get in that shit game is not "growth"

I turn on my laptop and I'm a Steam user even if I'm watching porn

 

[arvfab]

Ask your mom

She said she doesn't know, as she doesn't frequent stupid people.

 

[Gods&Monsters]

Yeah, so? I’ve seen a lot of stupid fanboy nonsense here but PC gaming is dying is the icing on the cake.

Take out China, Russia and Korea and the PC gaming industry that can support AAA gaming is about the same as consoles.

I'm sure they are making billions with Korean and Chinese MMOs and gachas but it's not going to help anything we are discussing here

It's weird to brag about PC gaming by adding the total from that market to downplay consoles.

 

[Cool hand luke]

People protesting that traditional PC gaming (read: PC) is not dying has the same energy as calling the Titanic unsinkable AFTER it hit the iceberg. Like bro it just sunk.

 

[xollowsob]

People protesting that traditional PC gaming (read: PC) is not dying has the same energy as calling the Titanic unsinkable AFTER it hit the iceberg. Like bro it just sunk.

 

[J_Paganel]

People protesting that traditional PC gaming (read: PC) is not dying has the same energy as calling the Titanic unsinkable AFTER it hit the iceberg. Like bro it just sunk.

No, you're lying, a great PC future awaits us with game subscriptions, services and 4K\120fps for everyone!!!

They will be just as successful as gamepass, metaverse, VR, and NFT, this is our future, we just have to wait, communism was not built overnight either...