OP
OP
No, you get that honour all to yourself. It's the poisonous PC fanboyism that does it.
From 2017-2023, the console games market has grown +59%. PC only +37%; has shrunk since 2022
- Thread starter Cool hand luke
- Start date
China and Korea aren't half of the global market
This is not the total software market of each console brand, this is the part of the revenue earned by these platform holders. Meaning, they don't include the revenue cut earned by the 3rd parties for the 3rd party games (this only includes the "30%" platform cht in case of 3P games).
And well, companies will report their FY2023 in May, we don't know them. In case you meant FY22, these numbers don't match, I posted them a few pages ago:
Sony made $1716B yen in game revenue for FY22, I posted them a few pages ago (physical + digital game sales + addons, $11.32B). If you add their "network services" (game subs, including the PC one) they did for FY22 464.67B yen ($3.06), so would be a total of $14.38B. Including physical game sales and subs.
If only counting their "digital software" (digital games unit sold, in FY22 they did 660.9B yen ($4.36B). If you add there addons (862.1B yen/$5.69B), then it's $10.05B.
Their hardware sales in FY22 was 1123.5B yen ($7.41B), and "others" (which back then did include back then accesories and their PC games) 339.9B yen ($2.24B).
Misinformation is what you are sharing, at least for Sony.
And well this graph and editions for previous years have been using in many places like Bloomberg and GameDeveloper.com
We have actual sales data and publisher data on PC sales.
France 2023 Top 20 sales on PC and consoles
From Chloe Woitier (that regularly has interviews/articles about the industry in France): Official Top 20 from @SELL_JeuxVideo just came out : 1) FC 24 2) Hogwarts Legacy 3) Zelda TOKT 4) Mario Wonder Note that Baldur's Gate 3 isn't present because Larian doesn't share their numbers...www.installbaseforum.com
You don't have there PC worldwide data for the whole market.
You only have there the data for a couple countries who are a small portion of the global sales and aren't even from the main region of the global sales. Plus some console focused publishers, who aren't even the biggest ones so aren't representative of the global market. It would be almost like to post the numbers from Riot and Supercell and say that the console market doesn't exist.
In this thread I posted the worldwide data for PC, console, mobile etc from IDG, Newzoo etc. reported in different ways and including or not different things such as game subs or hardware.
And well, I think you didn't realize that the visual capitalist chart, unlike the other ones, is infation adjusted.
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i don't understand, how many times devs can say that they need consoles to make those AA and AAA games.
I've been following your posts on Installbase for years and I think you're the best poster there. I don't know how you deal with all the nintendrones, xbots and haters.
Welfare posts here too btw
This is obvious to everyone and we've been repeating this non-stop but they still believe PC is 50% because of China market
what that could mean?
Wrong
SK FTC report:
Mobile: $9.2B, 57.9%
PC: $4.3B, 26.8%
Console: $0.8B, 5%
Arcade: $0.2B, 1.3%
WW numbers from SK FTC as well:
Mobile: $100.2B, 45.6%
Console: $55.1B, 25.1%
PC: $37.2B, 17%
Arcade: 27.1B, 12.3%
PC fans always misrepresent the addressable market for AAA/AA games as a result.
$19-20B from China + SK = <$20B rest of the world.
Console = $34B on games alone, $43B with subs
Wrong
Sony and MSFT report 3rd P digital rev as 100%. Nintendo only reports their cut, which I have adjusted for.
All 3 report physical revenue as just their cut.
Hilarious that you can't even spot why your figures are wrong.
Sony reports the yen USD rate for PS. Try again.
No one cares.
Visual Capitalist gaming graph is comically incorrect with the PC and Console ratios and console revenue.
We already have official FY data from Sony, MSFT, Nintendo.
Imagine posting an incorrect jpeg as gospel but ignoring the actual fiscal reports video game companies give us:
| Pub | Console Rev | PC Rev | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Take Two 2023 | 82 | 18 | FY report |
| Ubisoft FY23 9mon | 72 | 28 | FY report |
| EA 2023 | 71 | 29 | FY report |
| ABK 2022 | 51 | 49 | FY report |
| Epic 2021 | 76 | 24 | EGS EoY, FTC court cas |
Activision would be ~80% console. ABK balances due to Blizzard being 80% PC.
The 5 biggest pubs in gaming all get 70-80% of revenue from console and only 20-30% from PC.
FR and UK are 2 out of 3 biggest gaming markets in EU. PC doing so poorly there speaks volumes.
And in terms of global revenue:
- Playstation : ~$16.3B (+$4.5B subs)
- Xbox : ~$8B (+$3.5B subs)
- Nintendo : $9.5B (+$1B subs)
- Valve : $7B
The data is all there, you just don't seem to like what it says.
Amazing receipts! Almost 80% from consoles is even higher than I thought.
You should make a twitter account that gets posted everywhere instead of all the doom from Mat and Chris Dring.
@klomzi left for dead and shaking uncontrollably
Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the forums.See some of my graphs being posted.
People tend to conflate the PC market for AAA/AA/F2P games because they include China and SK, huge PC markets, but are largely untapped to foreign companies due to demographics and government laws.
The PC market may be $40B globally but $20B of that is China ($15B) and SK ($5B) so for most gaming pubs, $20B is mostly the addressable market. Compared with consoles total software market (not incl subs or full physical revenue):
This is not even full revenue. Physical is a huge market for Nintendo and Playstation, and on their FY it is only accounted as the platform cut, only 15% of the full revenue. With that in mind, approx:
- Playstation : $13B (PS FY 2023)
- Xbox : $7.2B (Xbox leak 2020, declined now)
- Nintendo : $7.5B (Nintendo FY 2023)
Total = $35B
- Playstation : ~$16.3B
- Xbox : ~$8B
- Nintendo : $9.5B
Console sub market:
Total = $9B
- Playstation : $4.5B
- Xbox : $3.5B
- Nintendo : $1B
Total Console software market = $44B
Total Console hardware market = PS ($10B), Nintendo ($5.5B), Xbox ($3.3B) = $18.8B = $62.8B (SW+HW)
Worth repeating, but that rainbow visual capitalist chart is complete bogus and shows how misinformation can spread despite 0 sources.
We have actual sales data and publisher data on PC sales.
France 2023 Top 20 sales on PC and consoles
From Chloe Woitier (that regularly has interviews/articles about the industry in France): Official Top 20 from @SELL_JeuxVideo just came out : 1) FC 24 2) Hogwarts Legacy 3) Zelda TOKT 4) Mario Wonder Note that Baldur's Gate 3 isn't present because Larian doesn't share their numbers...
Console is 70-80% of revenue for the big AAA pubs. Its the lifeblood of the AAA industry.
To put it even more clearly, per MSFT's estimate, Epic's estimate and the recent Wolfire v Steam courtcase, Valve's revenue is only $7B
PC isn't eating the console space, but the two are in competition. Consoles like PS/Nintendo can eat PC marketshare, as we saw in Germany or SK. China is a huge growth region of both PS and Nintendo and I imagine if they got big there, they will be eating PC marketshare.
- Playstation : ~$16.3B (+$4.5B subs)
- Xbox : ~$8B (+$3.5B subs)
- Nintendo : $9.5B (+$1B subs)
- Valve : $7B
Oh thank god, another smart person.Wrong
SK FTC report:
Mobile: $9.2B, 57.9%
PC: $4.3B, 26.8%
Console: $0.8B, 5%
Arcade: $0.2B, 1.3%
WW numbers from SK FTC as well:
Mobile: $100.2B, 45.6%
Console: $55.1B, 25.1%
PC: $37.2B, 17%
Arcade: 27.1B, 12.3%
PC fans always misrepresent the addressable market for AAA/AA games as a result.
$19-20B from China + SK = <$20B rest of the world.
Console = $34B on games alone, $43B with subs
Wrong
Sony and MSFT report 3rd P digital rev as 100%. Nintendo only reports their cut, which I have adjusted for.
All 3 report physical revenue as just their cut.
Hilarious that you can't even spot why your figures are wrong.
Sony reports the yen USD rate for PS. Try again.
No one cares.
Visual Capitalist gaming graph is comically incorrect with the PC and Console ratios and console revenue.
We already have official FY data from Sony, MSFT, Nintendo.
Imagine posting an incorrect jpeg as gospel but ignoring the actual fiscal reports video game companies give us:
Pub Console Rev PC Rev Source Take Two 2023 82 18 FY report Ubisoft FY23 9mon 72 28 FY report EA 2023 71 29 FY report ABK 2022 51 49 FY report Epic 2021 76 24 EGS EoY, FTC court cas
Activision would be ~80% console. ABK balances due to Blizzard being 80% PC.
The 5 biggest pubs in gaming all get 70-80% of revenue from console and only 20-30% from PC.
FR and UK are 2 out of 3 biggest gaming markets in EU. PC doing so poorly there speaks volumes.
And in terms of global revenue:
PS alone generates twice the revenue of Steam.
- Playstation : ~$16.3B (+$4.5B subs)
- Xbox : ~$8B (+$3.5B subs)
- Nintendo : $9.5B (+$1B subs)
- Valve : $7B
The data is all there, you just don't seem to like what it says.
Assuming that these estimations are correct, $14.2B+$4.3B=$18.5B (49.7% of the $37.2B).Wrong
SK FTC report:
Mobile: $9.2B, 57.9%
PC: $4.3B, 26.8%
Console: $0.8B, 5%
Arcade: $0.2B, 1.3%
WW numbers from SK FTC as well:
Mobile: $100.2B, 45.6%
Console: $55.1B, 25.1%
PC: $37.2B, 17%
So yes, China+KR would be half of the market and I would be wrong if you take this numbers as the good ones and not numbers from other sources provided.
Yes, the rest of the world would be $18.7B. But China and KR are addresable by foreigners. I worked in many western games published in local storefronts.
And well, even in western storefronts it's noticiable: in Steam an example looking at Language usage in Steam, Traditional+Simplified Chinese+Korean are 36.38% combined.
No, they all 3 only report their cuts, because they are reporting their sales/revenue made there by their company. The cut for the 3rd parties are counted as sales/revenue of these other companies.
I can't spot they are wrong because they aren't wrong as shown in the links or screencaps I provided (outside some typo I may have). Which show the numbers in yen, not in USD.
The estimation of each market analysis firm is different because they have different data sources available, use different methodologies and include different things in different reports.
As I shown, even each firm reports them in different ways something including some things and in other times reporting other things, resulting in different numbers. Even depending on which part of the year they make the estimate for the same report from the same firm the numbers are different.
Yes, but we miss the data from hundreds/thousands of 3rd party publishers.
These are not the 5 biggest pubs in gaming.
And as I said, this is a biased selection with console focused companies. There are other ones more focused on PC, and other ones more in mobile. Including some of the most successful ones on PC like Tencent, Valve, Riot or Roblox to mention a few of them.
As explained before FR and UK only represent a small portion of the global gaming revenue and userbase, so aren't representative.
Aren't even part of the biggest region by far in revenue and userbase (Asia), which has different habits regarding platforms than the UK+FR one.
This is completely wrong/made out.
That Sony number is fake as explained before (and the game subs revenue includes the one from PC). The Valve number too because isn't public. I didn't double check the Xbox and Nintendo ones.
And well, in any case there's the 3rd party revenue missing too.
We know PC generates relatively similar amount of money than console regarding game revenue (not counting hardware, accesories, game subs). We also know Sony has almost half of the console market revenue, while Steam has like 70-80% of the PC revenue. So it's totally impossible that PS could generate twice the amount of money than Steam.
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Assuming that these estimations are correct, $14.2B+$4.3B=$18.5B (49.7% of the $37.2B).Wrong
SK FTC report:
Mobile: $9.2B, 57.9%
PC: $4.3B, 26.8%
Console: $0.8B, 5%
Arcade: $0.2B, 1.3%
WW numbers from SK FTC as well:
Mobile: $100.2B, 45.6%
Console: $55.1B, 25.1%
PC: $37.2B, 17%
So yes, China+KR would be half of the market and I would be wrong if you take this numbers as the good ones and not numbers from other sources.
Yes, the rest of the world would be $18.7B with these sources. But China and KR are addresable by foreigners. I worked in many western games published in local storefronts.
And well, even in western storefronts it's noticiable: in Steam as an example, looking at Language usage in Steam, Traditional+Simplified Chinese+Korean are 36.38% combined. Which leads to think Steam is more western focused, but somewhat representative of the worldwide PC market (something logical, since it's a big part of it).
No, they all 3 only report their cuts, because they are reporting their sales/revenue made there by their company. The cut for the 3rd parties are counted as sales/revenue of these other companies.
I can't spot they are wrong because they aren't wrong, as shown in the links or screencaps I provided (outside some typo I may have). Which in he case of Sony, shows the numbers in yen, not in USD.
The estimation of each market analysis firm is different because they have different data sources available, use different methodologies and include different things in different reports.
As I shown, even each firm reports them in different ways, some of them including some things, and in other times reporting other things in other reports, resulting in different numbers. Even depending on which part of the year the same company makes an estimate for the same report from the same firm, and using the same methodology, the numbers are different.
Yes, but we miss the data from hundreds/thousands of 3rd party publishers.
These are not the 5 biggest pubs in gaming.
And as I said, this is a biased selection with console focused companies. There are other ones more focused on PC, and other ones more in mobile. Including some of the most successful ones on PC like Tencent, Valve, Riot or Roblox to mention a few of them.
As an example Capcom said two times in FY22 that PC was around 50% of their game revenue, and in FY23 said that they kept growing in PC.
As explained before, FR and UK aren't representative of the global market because they are a small portion of the global revenue and userbase.
And they aren't even part of the biggest region (Asia), which has a huge portion of the global revenue and userbase plus very different gaming habits regarding mobile/PC/console usage distribution.
This is completely wrong/made out.
This Sony number is fake as explained before including receipts (and btw, their game subs revenue includes the one from PC). The Valve number is also fake because isn't public. I didn't double check the Xbox and Nintendo ones.
And well, there's the 3rd party revenue missing too. Which in case of Sony and Valve must be way higher than the Nintendo and Xbox ones.
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All of that is 100% irrelevant with what they are saying about game budgets, AAA gaming, consoles growth and addressable markets.
We don't need more consoles to sell Roblox
The PC market could be 100 billions but if it's not going to help Take 2, EA, Ubisoft, Sony and everything that we call the "gaming industry" why should we care?
I'm just wondering what is your point anymore? Do you even know yourself?
D
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Lol what a predictable exchange. I told you not to engage the idiot, even if to clarify. Troll will do as expected. What a waste of time. DM me you know where, much more important thing to discuss.
Back to hibernation.
Back to hibernation.
For console focused publishers who need to expand their userbase to grow their revenue and make their games more profitable, it is important to know in which regions will grow more or less if expanding to that platform in addition to which overlap there is between their currently covered market (in this case console) and the one where they want to expand.All of that is 100% irrelevant with what they are saying about game budgets, AAA gaming, consoles growth and addressable markets.
We don't need more consoles to sell Roblox
Sony mentioned they want to grow specially in non-Japan Asian countries where they have a relatively small gaming presence. We saw above previously in thread that China+Korea alone generate roughly around half of the PC worldwide revenue. In this countries, mobile and PC gaming is way more popular than consoles, which are way less important here than in NA+EU+JP, the main console markets.
Meaning, expanding in the -way bigger than PS- PC and mobile markets (Asia and particularly China is huge for mobile, too) will help them expand in these countries, while having relatively a small overlap (there are different studies measuring these overlaps) with their current market, console.
So effectively will help them grow. Knowing the countries where this new market is bigger will help them know to which languages they will have to localize their games, and in which countries they will have to focus their marketing.
Regarding Roblox, it isn't highly successful in PC. It also is on mobile (generated over $1B only there) and is one of the top games in consoles, including in PS where got relatively recently released. So for big console publishers who want to expand to PC and mobile it's an interesting case to research how they did it and why did it work so well, which -even if they do different type of games- they may learn some lesson they can use for their own case.
My point is that companies mention that AAA budgets are getting too high, so they need to find new revenue sources and ways to improve profitability.
Some of them like Capcom, Sega or Sony realized that they had room for improvement on PC, where they had a lot of space to grow. After some years improving their efforts on PC, that platform now represents around 50% or above of Capcom's game revenue. Sony in FY22 was a top 20 publisher on Steam with only a few ports of old games, and this FY23 with additional releases and the huge Helldivers 2 success pretty likely moved to at least top 10. Etc.
Meaning, growing in PC can help (and is helping) some of these companies to generate way more revenue and better profitability than -mostly- focusing only on console. Something that will help them make their upcoming >$300M games more sustainable.
It is key for them to continue being able to make big ass AAA blockbusters.
I give you a summary:This thread needs a reboot lol.
I don't understand anything anymore
In order to make more money, they want to gather to the Asian PC and mobile market.
Going by some opinions in this thread, it's ok if they shit on the current userbase by decreasing the quality and quantity of their games or even make games in genres that are usually not important to their current fanbase, to achieve that.
In their naive and greedy pursuit for mobile/PC success they'll let go of their dominant console position to become another worthless publisher like Xbox.
They already have pretty much the best position when it comes to game publisher but they are obsesses with the success of other and don't value what they have.
Besides Helldivers and Destiny, the total sales of their SP titles are so low, the total in China could be 100k players for all titles. They can easily find 100k new customers on PS5. They sell more than 100k consoles per week.
Horizon Forbidden West already dropped to NUMBER 40 on Steam. Pitiful sales and zero legs. Estimated total sales are 250k. Let's say 10k comes from China, who gives a fuck?
They just sold 10k PS5s by the time I wrote this post
2 weeks ago, same time as Dragons Dogma. The CCU peak was 40k, almost 20k lower than the first one that came out 4 years ago. Dragons Dogma is still number 11
Major flop. It sold about 250k and dropped like a rock (250k is a generous estimate, with that peak it's closer to 200k).
