From 2017-2023, the console games market has grown +59%. PC only +37%; has shrunk since 2022
- Thread starter Cool hand luke
- Start date
Pretty likely this fiscal year that just ended they'll make more than the $450M from PC they estimated, so with a CAGR bigger than the already spectacular 133% estimated:
This is way more than the $250M from previous year that did help them become top 20 pblisher in Steam just a few years after starting their PC push having only back then a few almost full priced ports of old game.Meaning, being conservative in FY23 they'll be minimum top 15 or top 10 publisher in Steam, out of thousands of publishers.
Obviously in the near future as they keep releasing more big GaaS and ports they'll keep climbing in the ranking. And over time the ports -as usual in PC- will sell more later then discounted, sales in PC are less focused on launch than in console.
HFW is top 38 in the ranking but of the 37 above, there's SteamDeck and 13 free games like CS2, PUBG, Apex, ESO (time limited free trial), Warframe, ARK, CoD Warzone, Hearts of Iron IV (limited time free trial), Path of Exile, War Thunder, Naraka, YuGioh Master Duel, Lost Ark. Plus 3 expansions (2 from CoD and one from Cyberpunk),They can easily find 100k new customers on PS5. They sell more than 100k consoles per week.
Horizon Forbidden West already dropped to NUMBER 40 on Steam. Pitiful sales and zero legs. Estimated total sales are 250k. Let's say 10k comes from China, who gives a fuck?
They just sold 10k PS5s by the time I wrote this post
So there are 17 above it that shoudn't be counted if we talk about paid games. Meaning, in "Best selling" right now for paid games it's top 21 and in "Best selling last week" top 7.
Doing the user reviews x25 estimate, it sold around 200K+ units so far and like the previous one and the other ports of big sellers, it will contnue selling during years.
When sharing the early PC sales from TLOUP1 PC, it was revealed that during its first days it made $42.12 per copy to Sony. That same average for around 200K copies is around $6.93M.
Assuming a 2M budget (aprox. like the other Nixxes ports for Insomniac), in it's already profitable with an over 7x ROI in just a few days, and obviously will end being more as continues selling.
And well, these late ports are normally released on PC when games no longer sell a shit on PS and are available in PS+. Not only between these new >100K per week users (who some of them may already had it on PS4 or PC), but between their entire PS userbase.
This is from March 2021, when they only had sold only a small fraction of the more than 3.3M units sold until now on PC:
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OP
OP
PC/China specific releases are likely contributing to this. Not the same as simply porting over existing titles. Please take this link to be representative of this argument, not definitive proof:
Capcom Decided to Launch Seven Online Titles for China and Other Asian Countries– Full-scale entry into growing markets by using major franchise and joint operations with overseas partners – | Press Release | CAPCOM
Capcom Co., Ltd. (Capcom) is pleased to announce that the decision has been made to start selling seven new titles for smartphones and PCs in order to aim for growth of the online business in China and other Asian countries. The titles will be introduced one by one in this region beginning with...
www.capcom.co.jp
Top 20 with only a few games really shows how weak the market is.
Well, that document you share is from 2014.PC/China specific releases are likely contributing to this. Not the same as simply porting over existing titles. Please take this link to be representative of this argument, not definitive proof:
Capcom Decided to Launch Seven Online Titles for China and Other Asian Countries– Full-scale entry into growing markets by using major franchise and joint operations with overseas partners – | Press Release | CAPCOM
Capcom Co., Ltd. (Capcom) is pleased to announce that the decision has been made to start selling seven new titles for smartphones and PCs in order to aim for growth of the online business in China and other Asian countries. The titles will be introduced one by one in this region beginning with...
Top 20 with only a few games really shows how weak the market is.
In FY21 they stated that were starting a special push to achieve 50% game revenue from PC in a year or two. In FY22 they stated in Q&As of two different quarters that already achieved it. In another Q&A from FY23 they mentioned that their PC share kept growing. I posted screenshots of such quotes in this same thread.
Same goes with the PC vs game revenue, I posted several reports from different top market analysis firms, including the ones quoted by publishers in their fiscal reports, national dev/publisher associations or main game industry (not news/reviews blogs) media. They show PC has a similar (specially when not including game subs/hardware in the console side, because in that case console grows up to around $55B+) worldwide game revenue than the entire console market, or even bigger.
There isn't absolutely no source that leads to think it's a weak market. It has a similar size to the console market of $40B with a nice growth since the early Steam days (and obviously the recent temporal covid small decrease pre-bump due to delays and post-bump due to going back to normality, like in the other markets including non-gaming ones).
Newzoo Global Gaming Report 2024 (January), consoles including game subs:
IDG Gaming Spotlight 2023 (August 23 FC): console (and PC) including game subs:
IDG - Sony Busines Segment meeting Game & Network Services Segment 2023 (May 23, to be updated next month)
Notice that IDG mentions console at around $55B for 2022. But when removing hardware and game subs to get the game revenue it's $30B for 2022. If keeping game subs then console is $38B according to them. Versus $43B in PC.
In their May forecast for 2023, they mention $31B for console game revenue, $41B if adding game subs (vs $42B for PC), $60B if adding hardware.
Also notice PS had a 46% of the total console revenue in FY22.
Please notice these reports are made in different months, so are made with different data available.
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OP
OP
Why is your argument that the markets are comparable predicated on removing a bunch of segments from the console market and leaving PC numbers intact?Well, that document you share is from 2014.
In FY21 they stated that were starting a special push to achieve 50% game revenue from PC in a year or two. In FY22 they stated in Q&As of two different quarters that already achieved it. In another Q&A from FY23 they mentioned that their PC share kept growing. I posted screenshots of such quotes in this same thread.
Same goes with the PC vs game revenue, I posted several reports from different top market analysis firms, including the ones quoted by publishers in their fiscal reports, national dev/publisher associations or main game industry (not news/reviews blogs) media. They show PC has a similar (specially when not including game subs/hardware in the console side, because in that case console grows up to around $55B+) worldwide game revenue than the entire console market, or even bigger.
There isn't absolutely no source that leads to think it's a weak market. It has a similar size to the console market of $40B with a nice growth since the early Steam days (and obviously the recent temporal covid small decrease pre-bump due to delays and post-bump due to going back to normality, like in the other markets including non-gaming ones).
Newzoo Global Gaming Report 2024 (January), consoles including game subs:
IDG Gaming Spotlight 2023 (August 23 FC): console (and PC) including game subs:
IDG - Sony Busines Segment meeting Game & Network Services Segment 2023 (May 23, to be updated next month)
Notice that IDG mentions console at around $55B for 2022. But when removing hardware and game subs to get the game revenue it's $30B for 2022. If keeping game subs then console is $38B according to them. Versus $43B in PC.
In their May forecast for 2023, they mention $31B for console game revenue, $41B if adding game subs (vs $42B for PC), $60B if adding hardware.
Also notice PS had a 46% of the total console revenue in FY22.
Please notice these reports are made in different months, so are made with different data available.
Is there no PC gaming hardware?
No gaming subscription on PC? Your second chart literally calls out that PC growth is due to subscription-based gaming.
What kind of software contributes to PC software revenue?
It's clear that it's not traditional AAA gaming given @enpleinjour's stats on the split for the 5 major publishers.
People, including you, seem to be conflating Steam growth with PC growth. Engagement means nothing, so the CCU counts are deceptive and meaningless, and it's more likely that Steam has consolidated market share from failed launchers (EA origin, battlenet) than the market itself has grown, considering all stats point to a decline from 2022-2023.
Because some of reports of the console revenue include or not hardware or game subs, highly changing that ammount.
PC hardware isn't included in related graphs because most PC hardware sold isn't for gaming, and game subs in PC sometimes are included but when doing so the change is minimal.
So I think that having a better idea on what each graph or table includes help to make more fair comparisions and know why sometimes there are big changes from a graph to another.
I noticed the text about the PC game subs, and this is why I also included now the explanation of the left and mentioned it in my text of the post.
Includes games sold add-ons and depending on the graph, also game subs.
PC also includes casual browser based games, but not those who include real money gambling/casino/etc.
Steam is known to be a big majority of the PC market since many years ago, so part of the explanation of the PC gaming market growth comes from the growth that Steam had year after year.
Gaming markets keeping basically flat, slowing growth or slightly declining during 2022-2023, like in most non-gaming markets are more related to coming back to normality after the covid bump and the covid related huge inflation. In case of mobile, there's also the negative impact of new "privacy" regulations on mobile ads on mobile gaming marketing.
Basically everybody expected that in 2023/FY23 the gaming market was going to go back to continue growing but were wrong, and now everybody expects it to go back to grow in 2024/FY24.
OP
OP
Do you think it's deceptive to, for example, remove segments from the total console revenue figures and compare them to the unaltered PC figures, like you did for 2022?
If you don't think it's deceptive because you called it out, can I ask why you bothered making that apples to oranges comparison in the first place?
I think it's deceptive to compare this:
- PC: game+addon sales
- Console: game+addon+game subs (sometimes including the money made in PC+mobile with GP and PS Plus)+hardware(and sometimes also+accesories)
- PC: game+addon sales
- Console: game+addon sales
- PC: game+addon+(only the part for consoles) gamesub sales
- Console: game+addon+(only the part for PC) gamesub sales
I give you the gold medal for the biggest mental gymnast in the world. Congrats! The whole post is lol but this part was the most lol to me. You should apply to replace Phil Spencer you'll make all their flops look like a success
Still copy/pasting the same bullshit graph with Destiny money that was debunked thousands of time. Next one will be even bigger with Helldivers and you'll still miss the point by a mile.
You talk a lot about growth but you have zero growth in your thinking. You should be studied in a lab.
I give you the medal to the most pathetic and embarassing gaming flatearther straw man and ad hominem phallacies of the day.
I give you the gold medal for the biggest mental gymnast in the world. Congrats! The whole post is lol but this part was the most lol to me. You should apply to replace Phil Spencer you'll make all their flops look like a success
Still copy/pasting the same bullshit graph with Destiny money that was debunked thousands of time. Next one will be even bigger with Helldivers and you'll still miss the point by a mile.
You talk a lot about growth but you have zero growth in your thinking. You should be studied in a lab.
It's laughable to see someone trying to act as if to get around top 10-20 in a sales ranking with an expensive port of an old game was a bad performance, and trying to move the attention away when proven wrong, with insults and mading up stuff about unrelated things.
Yes, Sony did hundreds of millions in PC in FY22, did way more in FY23 (more than they estimated) as shown in that graph, because they can't lie to investors. They aren't liers like you. And will do even more money in PC during FY24, even if a squareminded hater like you can't accept it, crying and saying it's bullshit.
P.S.: Yes, obviously with Destiny 2 (since acquired) and Helldivers 2 too, because they are obviously Sony PC games and part of their plans for PC. As will be GoT, Until Dawn, Concord or Marathon.
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Bungie made that money, not Sony.
Whether they were acquired or not they would still make it. There's a nuance there but you refuse to see it.
HFW PC is an embarrassing flop. Hermen and Angie Smets are getting shipped back to Guerilla. Deal with it.
I'll pray for you
Bungie is a 100% owned SIE subsidiary, so all the money Bungie made is money made for Sony and they will do whatever Sony/SIE wants to do, deal with it.
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Newzoo just released a new report (January 2024 data):
PC grew more than consoles during 2023 (game+addons+game subs graph, doesn't include hardware and accesories)
Add-on revenue (so mostly GaaS) was 68% of the game revenue in PC and 65% in console for USA+UK (not worldwide numbers for this graph):
Obviously pre-pandemic+covid bump had a bigger gwoth that PC+console will have during going back to normality and next few years:
Userbase growth is expected to slow down, but the userbase is huge and continues growing:
Most of the most played games in PC+home consoles are multiplatform GaaS:
After lockdowns playtime decreased because people went back to activities outside home:
Playtime is focused on a few dozen games, which are multiplatform GaaS released in previous years:
59% of the new 2023 titles revenue came from new GaaS. 90% of the new 2023 titles revenue was made by 43 games:
3 of the 4 most played genres in PC and console are shooters:
Less than 3 dozen publishers made 80% of the console+PC 2023 MAU:
Popular IPs including remasters/remakes perform better among top titles:
Cinema+tv show adaptations increaase related IP game MAU:
CoD and FIFA succesfully expanded to mobile, better reaching new countries and female audience:
19% of the players play in both console(PS or XB or Nintendo) and PC. 44% of the PC players also play on console. 46% of the console players also play on PC:
New PC or console gamers come mostly from emerging markets, where there's potential for cloud gaming, which is already starting to work there:
PC grew more than consoles during 2023 (game+addons+game subs graph, doesn't include hardware and accesories)
Add-on revenue (so mostly GaaS) was 68% of the game revenue in PC and 65% in console for USA+UK (not worldwide numbers for this graph):
Obviously pre-pandemic+covid bump had a bigger gwoth that PC+console will have during going back to normality and next few years:
Userbase growth is expected to slow down, but the userbase is huge and continues growing:
Most of the most played games in PC+home consoles are multiplatform GaaS:
After lockdowns playtime decreased because people went back to activities outside home:
Playtime is focused on a few dozen games, which are multiplatform GaaS released in previous years:
59% of the new 2023 titles revenue came from new GaaS. 90% of the new 2023 titles revenue was made by 43 games:
3 of the 4 most played genres in PC and console are shooters:
Less than 3 dozen publishers made 80% of the console+PC 2023 MAU:
Popular IPs including remasters/remakes perform better among top titles:
Cinema+tv show adaptations increaase related IP game MAU:
CoD and FIFA succesfully expanded to mobile, better reaching new countries and female audience:
19% of the players play in both console(PS or XB or Nintendo) and PC. 44% of the PC players also play on console. 46% of the console players also play on PC:
New PC or console gamers come mostly from emerging markets, where there's potential for cloud gaming, which is already starting to work there:
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Revelation of the century:
Casuals make up the majority of revenue + playtime!
Incredible, never would've thought of that.
Let's hope Sony & co. immediately throw decades of brand identity down the toilet by appealing to the casual market and make their shareholders happy.
It worked wonderfully for Xbox.
Casuals make up the majority of revenue + playtime!
Incredible, never would've thought of that.
Let's hope Sony & co. immediately throw decades of brand identity down the toilet by appealing to the casual market and make their shareholders happy.
It worked wonderfully for Xbox.
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OP
OP
Wow PC rebounded from their decline.Newzoo just released a new report:
PC grew more than consoles during 2023 (game+addons+game subs graph, doesn't include hardware and accesories)
Add-on revenue (so mostly GaaS) was 68% of the game revenue in PC and 65% in console for USA+UK (not worldwide numbers for this graph):
Obviously pre-pandemic+covid bump had a bigger gwoth that PC+console will have during going back to normality and next few years:
Userbase growth is expected to slow down, but the userbase is huge and continues growing:
Most of the most played games in PC+home consoles are multiplatform GaaS:
After lockdowns playtime decreased because people went back to activities outside home:
Playtime is focused on a few dozen games, which are multiplatform GaaS released in previous years:
59% of the new 2023 titles revenue came from new GaaS. 90% of the new 2023 titles revenue was made by 43 games:
3 of the 4 most played genres in PC and console are shooters:
Less than 3 dozen publishers made 80% of the console+PC 2023 MAU:
Popular IPs including remasters/remakes perform better among top titles:
Cinema+tv show adaptations increaase related IP game MAU:
CoD and FIFA succesfully expanded to mobile, better reaching new countries and female audience:
19% of the players play in both console(PS or XB or Nintendo) and PC. 44% of the PC players also play on console. 46% of the console players also play on PC:
New PC or console gamers come mostly from emerging markets, where there's potential for cloud gaming, which is already starting to work there:
Regarding userbase growth I assume they measure all the players who played each year, not only in current gen consoles but all of them instead: also in previous gen, retro, etc., because the number of players seem too high to me:
Regarding overlap between both markets:
- 44% of the PC players also play on console (381.48M)
- 46% of the console players also play on PC (287.5M)
Meaning:
- 56% of the PC players don't play on console (485.82M)
- 54% of the console players don't play on PC (337.5M)