Horizon Forbidden West climbing the Steam top sellers list. |UP| Releases on Steam with lower player count than Zero: Dawn.

[Systemshock2023]

The average Joe will see the drop in quality of PS Studio games and decide that maybe he shouldn't buy their games day 1 anymore, like he did the past few years. Maybe he will notice that the type of games he used to love on PlayStation, haven't been as frequent as previously.

So the average Joe might want to look for alternatives and might spend less and less time and money on PlayStation.




You really think they will? What about the next generation (if there is any for Xbox), when people will look back and see 0 reasons to buy another Xbox?

Are you an average Joe? If your are here and engage in discussion of course you are not, gaming wise. Do you think that kind of gamer looks at "the drop in quality of PS Studio games"?

They buy FIFA/Madden/2K COD, GTA and MTX on F2P games. And buy Playstation out of habit, because the next one has a higher number and they got used to the controller. That's all they need to know.

That group comprises 70% of PS/XBOX userbase and generate the most $$$ for them. The other 30 may whine. Within that subgroup, a third at most might migrate to PC.

 

[arvfab]

The other 30 may whine. Within that subgroup, a third at most might migrate to PC.

You know that the 30% (going by your totally random numbers) are the ones buying new hardware day 1 and buying multiple games each year? The average Joe follows the 30%. We have seen the average Joe jumping on the X360 from the PS2, back to PS3/4 once the high quality output of the PlayStation Studios convinced the 30% to return to PS.

 

[JAHGamer]

You know that the 30% (going by your totally random numbers) are the ones buying new hardware day 1 and buying multiple games each year? The average Joe follows the 30%. We have seen the average Joe jumping on the X360 from the PS2, back to PS3/4 once the high quality output of the PlayStation Studios convinced the 30% to return to PS.

The Pareto Principle - The Pareto principle states that for many outcomes, roughly 80% of consequences come from 20% of causes.

I guarantee this principle applies for Sony as well, 80% of the revenue/profit comes from 20% of their player base. And if that 20% leaves... then good luck.

 

[Systemshock2023]

You know that the 30% (going by your totally random numbers) are the ones buying new hardware day 1 and buying multiple games each year? The average Joe follows the 30%. We have seen the average Joe jumping on the X360 from the PS2, back to PS3/4 once the high quality output of the PlayStation Studios convinced the 30% to return to PS.

Where are they going to go then? Xbox when they didn't do that even on the 7th generation? Remember they still ended in third place.

Nintendo to game at 720p 30 fps bad online and miss big games?

And finally Building/buying a gaming PC requires going through additional hurdles that the casual console userbase isn't willing to go over. Let alone the initial cost of the build. Gaming laptops are even more expensive.

If Xbox goes away, the market will have 3 very different segments:

PCs (best place for the power user snd enthusiast gamer, best catalogue and control over your gaming experience) more expensive build cost of you want a modern gaming experience.m

PS console (good compromise between initial HW price ,power, online, ease of use and third party support)

Nintendo console (portability, it runs games like its 1999, hit and miss third party support)

 

[Yurinka]

True, I forgot that, in that one says so and the acquisition was completed in summer. Until that and in the previous one doesn't includes Bungie. The quarterly data I provided of "other software" instead includes the Bungie numbers for the whole FY22, also including pre-acquisition.

"All time history record"

I meant all time gaming history record.

"...only under 3M behind PS4"

So what is it?

Launch aligned.

"So far" is key here. Many first party games are bought because of the trust Sony built with their excellent releases. Since the PC ports begun, the quality of their 1st party games has been on decline, with bugs and missing features at launch. Trust is vanishing.

Bullshit. All their main releases continued winning tons of awards and nominations and got great reviews. TLOU2 even broke the record of the amount of GOTY awards in gaming history.

And doesn't make sense to say that because the PC ports are made by different teams than the devs who make the original games.

Of course you won't see the consequences immediately. But it's not hard to see what will happen if they continue. Another platform holder already went through that.

You claim you are seeing them now. Or well, more precisely you and others are acting as if you were seeing them now.

Your tribalism makes you to prefer to see Sony stay full exclusive without GaaS and collapsing, not being able to continue making big top tier AAA SP games because in console they won't make enough revenue from selling games because game sales revenue is decreasing and budgets keep skyrocketing every generation.

Aren't able to accept that Sony needs to expand to GaaS, PC, mobile, movies and beyond to keep making more revenue and profit that would allow them to continue growing, being sustainable and have enough money to fund the games they want, including the console AAA SP ones.

And will continue rejecting all data that shows the positive effects they are having plus the logic behind the strategy, and will made up bad news to try to justify your point like "their quality being affected by the ports" or "their userbase is decreasing, people is leaving" rejecting the related evidence, which says exactly the opposite.

 

[JAHGamer]

Just saw this on Twitter

 

[rinzler]

The average Joe will see the drop in quality of PS Studio games and decide that maybe he shouldn't buy their games day 1 anymore, like he did the past few years. Maybe he will notice that the type of games he used to love on PlayStation, haven't been as frequent as previously.

So the average Joe might want to look for alternatives and might spend less and less time and money on PlayStation.

What drop in quality? The fan fiction runs deep with PC hatred around here. It's borderlining on derangement and it's getting ridiculous.

 

[arvfab]

What drop in quality? The fan fiction runs deep with PC hatred around here. It's borderlining on derangement and it's getting ridiculous.

How would you know? You are not the one buying PS5 games day 1. I'm surely not the only one who has noticed it.

TLOU2 even broke the record of the amount of GOTY awards in gaming history.

And doesn't make sense to say that because the PC ports are made by different teams than the devs who make the original games.

Yeah because TLOU2 and GOT were the last ones where they didn't have PC in mind.

After that we got numerous delays, buggy releases, missing features at launch. Still fantastic games, but with a very noticable drop in quality.

Your tribalism makes you to prefer to see Sony stay full exclusive without GaaS and collapsing, not being able to continue making big top tier AAA SP games because in console they won't make enough revenue from selling games because game sales revenue is decreasing and budgets keep skyrocketing every generation.

Aren't able to accept that Sony needs to expand to GaaS, PC, mobile, movies and beyond to keep making more revenue and profit that would allow them to continue growing, being sustainable and have enough money to fund the games they want, including the console AAA SP ones.

It's not about tribalism, but I am the one paying for their games, I'm not getting them for free. And obviously I'm egoistic and want to have the best experience FOR ME. If Sony continues giving ME games of lesser quality, I am going to give them less money by waiting until everything is fixed instead of jumping day 1 like I almost always do.

And will continue rejecting all data that shows the positive effects they are having plus the logic behind the strategy, and will made up bad news to try to justify your point like "their quality being affected by the ports" or "their userbase is decreasing, people is leaving" rejecting the related evidence, which says exactly the opposite.

I'm seeing the effect with my own eyes. As a dev yourself, I'm pretty baffled you haven't.

And where is the logic in short-term growth?
What about the long-term example of the only other platform holder which went that way?

Where are they going to go then? Xbox when they didn't do that even on the 7th generation? Remember they still ended in third place.

They weren't third until PlayStation started to release EXCLUSIVE, high quality games on PS3, while Xbox stopped doing it and focused on Kinect.

 

[arvfab]

Regarding the average Joe not caring about PS games coming to PC. I was just scrolling Facebook and saw this as first and only comment below a post from the official German PS handle about HFW on PC:

"Already on PC... oh man. If I knew before, there wouldn't be any PlayStation here."

Uwe doesn't look like the typical hardcore gamer....

 

[Box]

What drop in quality? The fan fiction runs deep with PC hatred around here. It's borderlining on derangement and it's getting ridiculous.

It's time users here just made peace with the PC strategy, next generation Switch 2 and PC will be the way to go.

I love my Playstation but I would also prefer to be able to use Mods in games.

If Bloodborne was on PC day 1, we would have tons of Graphic and FPS mods by now and wouldn't need to wait for Sony.

 

[rinzler]

How would you know? You are not the one buying PS5 games day 1. I'm surely not the only one who has noticed it.

I wouldn't, that's kind of the idea here. There's this overarching claim of drop in quality, and you're not the first person I've seen it from and yet no one has elaborated on it.

It's a bunch of vagueness and generalities.

 

[arvfab]

I wouldn't, that's kind of the idea here. There's this overarching claim of drop in quality, and you're not the first person I've seen it from and yet no one has elaborated on it.

It's a bunch of vagueness and generalities.

You didn't ask, did you?

With some rare exceptions, most PlayStation games release were very polished. Nowadays, they have many bugs, visual inconsistencies and missing features at launch. Stuff which elevated PS Studio games from other devs.

Spider-Man 2 just got an NG+ mode, several months after its release. GoW Ragnarök also launched without. Ratchet and HZW launched without a 40fps mode.

Helldivers 2 just released on PC and PS5 simultaneously and while both couldn't play because of server issues, which is shitty per se, only one of them has to pay for online play.

I would like to give you more examples, but PlayStation decided to release more PC ports than launch new games on PlayStation recently.

 

[rinzler]

You didn't ask, did you?

With some rare exceptions, most PlayStation games release were very polished. Nowadays, they have many bugs, visual inconsistencies and missing features at launch. Stuff which elevated PS Studio games from other devs.

Spider-Man 2 just got an NG+ mode, several months after its release. GoW Ragnarök also launched without. Ratchet and HZW launched without a 40fps mode.

Helldivers 2 just released on PC and PS5 simultaneously and while both couldn't play because of server issues, which is shitty per se, only one of them has to pay for online play.

I would like to give you more examples, but PlayStation decided to release more PC ports than launch new games on PlayStation recently.

So basically you're just making stuff up and blaming PC? You notice how you're just pointing the finger and you're not providing any form of this thing we call evidence as it relates to the thing in question?

Most of the games which were released within the past 2 years were largely developed during the pandemic when people were relegated to their homes. Games are more complex than ever, there's a multitude of reasons that do not relate to a PC which can cause these things to take place.

The fact that a post calling into question your claims about quality drops then turns into you whining about having to pay for online in Helldivers as it relates to PC really tells me all I need to know.

There's nothing legitimate here, and obviously there's going to be more PC releases because they are pre-existing games simply being ported because that's a hell of a lot faster than the creation of a new game.

Y'all have no chill.

 

[Gediminas]

You didn't ask, did you?

With some rare exceptions, most PlayStation games release were very polished. Nowadays, they have many bugs, visual inconsistencies and missing features at launch. Stuff which elevated PS Studio games from other devs.

Spider-Man 2 just got an NG+ mode, several months after its release. GoW Ragnarök also launched without. Ratchet and HZW launched without a 40fps mode.

Helldivers 2 just released on PC and PS5 simultaneously and while both couldn't play because of server issues, which is shitty per se, only one of them has to pay for online play.

I would like to give you more examples, but PlayStation decided to release more PC ports than launch new games on PlayStation recently.

You forgot to add Horizon FW which launched with broken 60fps mode, buggy and glitchy.
Spider Man 2 buggy too.
Helldivers has most problems with PS5 version too.
Returnal had many problems too.

 

[J_Paganel]

You forgot to add Horizon FW which launched with broken 60fps mode, buggy and glitchy.
Spider Man 2 buggy too.
Helldivers has most problems with PS5 version too.
Returnal had many problems too.

When the developers of Days Gone made a great AAA on the troubled UE4, with management forcing the release, and in general it was their first AAA since PS1, they were attacked by all the dogs.

Now, when poor technical condition is the "norm", due to the PC port policy that prevents the development of a product targeting PS5 hardware, this has become commonly overlooked.

 

[rinzler]

You forgot to add Horizon FW which launched with broken 60fps mode, buggy and glitchy.
Spider Man 2 buggy too.
Helldivers has most problems with PS5 version too.
Returnal had many problems too.

So two games which were ported years later had launch issues on PS5, a game unreleased on PC had launch issues on PS5, and a game released in tandem with PC has issues on both platforms...

This is insanity, it's taking place either way whether a PC is involved or not. Blaming PC is fanatical psychosis searching for a boogeyman.

 

[Gediminas]

So two games which were ported years later had launch issues on PS5, a game unreleased on PC had launch issues on PS5, and a game released in tandem with PC has issues on both platforms...

This is insanity, it's taking place either way whether a PC is involved or not. Blaming PC is fanatical psychosis searching for a boogeyman.

Gaslighting people is very strong argument.

Go go champ.

 

[panda-zebra]

Helldivers 2 just released on PC and PS5 simultaneously and while both couldn't play because of server issues, which is shitty per se, only one of them has to pay for online play.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind if Helldivers II was ps5 exclusive it would be in far better shape as an actual game. It wouldn't have made as much money, it wouldn't have become nearly as popular without the PC streamers, but it would have had 100% of the care and dedication of Arrowhead instead of spreading themselves too thinly especially in the context of the game blowing up. Even GaaS launching simultaneously has its issues. There would have been nothing wrong with launching ps5 only, getting the game into a great state, growing and building on sound foundations... instead we've got an amazing game that crumpled under its own success and that still suffers all kinds of progress, performance, consistency and connection issues at various times. Then add to that PC datamining and hacking that ruin the surprise and online experience for *everyone*.

 

[klomzi]

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind if Helldivers II was ps5 exclusive it would be in far better shape as an actual game. It wouldn't have made as much money, it wouldn't have become nearly as popular without the PC streamers, but it would have had 100% of the care and dedication of Arrowhead instead of spreading themselves too thinly especially in the context of the game blowing up. Even GaaS launching simultaneously has its issues. There would have been nothing wrong with launching ps5 only, getting the game into a great state, growing and building on sound foundations... instead we've got an amazing game that crumpled under its own success and that still suffers all kinds of progress, performance, consistency and connection issues at various times. Then add to that PC datamining and hacking that ruin the surprise and online experience for *everyone*.

Well Sony wants money.

 

[arvfab]

So basically you're just making stuff up and blaming PC? You notice how you're just pointing the finger and you're not providing any form of this thing we call evidence as it relates to the thing in question?

You wanted examples, I gave you some.
You want evidence that PC is to be blamed, I can't provide it, neither can you provide for the contrary.

Yet we have many examples in other multiplatform devs, which regularly launch games in a sub-optimal state because of having to support multiple platforms.

You say it yourself:

Games are more complex than ever

You think adding more platforms helps? Especially a platform like PC with such an heterogenous hardware landscape?

The fact that a post calling into question your claims about quality drops then turns into you whining about having to pay for online in Helldivers as it relates to PC really tells me all I need to know.

I'm not whining because I'm paying for online, but "whining" because the game I paid full-price, which requires an online subscription to be played on PlayStation, didn't work because the capacity wasn't enough to support both platforms. Isn't this a quality issue?

there's a multitude of reasons that do not relate to a PC which can cause these things to take place.

Yes, and having to make changes to your engines in order to make the porting to PC easier is in addition to that. Just look at how TLOU1 released on both platforms and in which state Naughty Dogs are.