IconEra Pride Month Close Out Party - The Last of Us 2 Tribute

[DForce]

I think it ended up being less successful than the first overall, unfortunately. This might be why they're doing a remake of part 1, even.

The Last of Us Part II was ranked 4th in dollar sales in the US in just 16 days. This means it beat Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us Remastered. It surpassed Horizon Zero Dawn the following month.



The reason for this is because Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us Remastered benefited from bundles, which NPD doesn't include in their NPD results (the software is not included in the hardware).

 

[LuptonianPrinceHDR+]

Although I prefer Joel and that gutted me, ND were so brave to do such a thing. All other games go the safe route, same with movies/series. You rarely see a main character die, which should be an option.

Finished it yesterday. I thought the reason people were so mad was because of the ending. But I'm happy with it as it wasn't meant to please us but to tell a story. It was rough, but not my story to tell.

 

[Yobo]

Finished it yesterday. I thought the reason people were so mad was because of the ending. But I'm happy with it as it wasn't meant to please us but to tell a story. It was rough, but not my story to tell.

People were mad about Joel, that's it

If Joel and Ellie weren't in the game and it was a new set of characters and Abby there would be no discussion about it being a master piece

People are too tied to their emotions of Joel and Ellie to grasp what the story was doing

 

[Satoru]

If Joel and Ellie weren't in the game and it was a new set of characters and Abby there would be no discussion about it being a master piece

People are too tied to their emotions of Joel and Ellie to grasp what the story was doing

 

[Dick Jones]

Would TLOU 2 have been served better by releasing it in 2 parts? The initial reviews couldn't even bring to light that you played as Abby for half a game.

Have the first part be up until the Mexican standoff [only real change is playing as Joel for the first scene until his death instead of Abby] and release the second part about 3 months later as free DLC?

 

[Satoru]

Would TLOU 2 have been served better by releasing it in 2 parts? The initial reviews couldn't even bring to light that you played as Abby for half a game.

My 2 cents? Nah. The game is perfect as is.

 

[Papacheeks]

People were mad about Joel, that's it

If Joel and Ellie weren't in the game and it was a new set of characters and Abby there would be no discussion about it being a master piece

People are too tied to their emotions of Joel and Ellie to grasp what the story was doing

A lot of sane people, who played it from start to finish I would say who gave their two cents were right about the pacing, and it was overly too long. I also think the game tries too hard to beat you over the head about needless revenge/violence.

I mean we don't know Joel's past before Ellie, it's implied by Tommy that in the early days of the virus Joel and tommy did some not so great stuff. Joel became fairly ruthless from what Tommy saw and it scared him. So Tommy left, met Maria in Jackson.
Joel after SARAH DIED had nothing, and there for his moral compass was just on surviving at any means, meaning letting others die if need be.

The issue with Part 2, is they were trying to expand on some things between Joel/Ellie in some unsolved tension, but also introduce Abby and show you from the other perspective of people on receiving end of Joels decision.

Issue Is we literally played like 8-9 hours of Ellie. I think pacing would have been better to just start Abbie from the Hospital. Start at young abbie, her dealing with the death of her dad at this compound or leaving and going to the military compound, meeting her friends, and her training. Then let it skip ahead to where Ellie/Joel start in Jackson.

Also after you get to the farmhouse with Dina, Thats where it dragged.

Gameplay is top notch, characters are still fleshed out, I loved the whole Cult stuff in the game that shit was wild. But in terms of how the actual story played out it felt very messy, and could have been put together better in my opinion.

 

[Satoru]

Issue Is we literally played like 8-9 hours of Ellie. I think pacing would have been better to just start Abbie from the Hospital. Start at young abbie, her dealing with the death of her dad at this compound or leaving and going to the military compound, meeting her friends, and her training. Then let it skip ahead to where Ellie/Joel start in Jackson.

I can actually agree with this, it would be great to get some backstory on Abby at the beginning before the events.

However, I can see why they did it the way they did it, even if some don't like it: They want you to hate Abby, and then understand Abby throughout the journey. That context at the beginning could significantly change how the story plays out.

 

[Papacheeks]

I can actually agree with this, it would be great to get some backstory on Abby at the beginning before the events.

However, I can see why they did it the way they did it, even if some don't like it: They want you to hate Abby, and then understand Abby throughout the journey. That context at the beginning could significantly change how the story plays out.

Then I would have done the intro part in jackson, played out the whole chase sequence where Joel/Abby/Tommy are in that cabin/place with abby and her group, I would and watch that all play out. When Ellie gets knocked out we skip back to the hospital scene and we are abby hearing gunfire and making her way through the compound, and finally getting to her dad.

Then do the whole thing I explained earlier where we play as abby first to the point where she's older, trained and with friends going after Joel. Then we skip back to Ellie waking up back at jackson morning Joel.

I still think the way they did was just ass backwards for the sake of shock and pissing people off, And I heard these sentiments I have were also sentiments developers had within Naughty Dog.

I heard there were a lot of disagreements and a lot of people left.

 

[Satoru]

Then I would have done the intro part in jackson, played out the whole chase sequence where Joel/Abby/Tommy are in that cabin/place with abby and her group, I would and watch that all play out. When Ellie gets knocked out we skip back to the hospital scene and we are abby hearing gunfire and making her way through the compound, and finally getting to her dad.

That would be cool, but again, I think it would subvert their idea for the story (doesn't mean it's the right one btw). they wanted you to hate Abby and then play as her and give context after a few hours.

I still think the way they did was just ass backwards for the sake of shock and pissing people off, And I heard these sentiments I have were also sentiments developers had within Naughty Dog.

This I disagree with. I don't think they wanted to piss people off. I think the idea (apart from the revenge angle) was that you felt proper hatred and then dread having to play as Abby, only to grow to like her and then finally understand why she did what she did, with the message being that nobody is a saint.

 

[Yobo]

A lot of sane people, who played it from start to finish I would say who gave their two cents were right about the pacing, and it was overly too long. I also think the game tries too hard to beat you over the head about needless revenge/violence.

I mean we don't know Joel's past before Ellie, it's implied by Tommy that in the early days of the virus Joel and tommy did some not so great stuff. Joel became fairly ruthless from what Tommy saw and it scared him. So Tommy left, met Maria in Jackson.
Joel after SARAH DIED had nothing, and there for his moral compass was just on surviving at any means, meaning letting others die if need be.

The issue with Part 2, is they were trying to expand on some things between Joel/Ellie in some unsolved tension, but also introduce Abby and show you from the other perspective of people on receiving end of Joels decision.

Issue Is we literally played like 8-9 hours of Ellie. I think pacing would have been better to just start Abbie from the Hospital. Start at young abbie, her dealing with the death of her dad at this compound or leaving and going to the military compound, meeting her friends, and her training. Then let it skip ahead to where Ellie/Joel start in Jackson.

Also after you get to the farmhouse with Dina, Thats where it dragged.

Gameplay is top notch, characters are still fleshed out, I loved the whole Cult stuff in the game that shit was wild. But in terms of how the actual story played out it felt very messy, and could have been put together better in my opinion.

It would have been a totally different narrative if you played Abby from the start and learned all her reasoning before she took revenge. All the visceral feeling of wanting revenge that both the player and Ellie felt towards this unknown Abby character would have been taken out of the narrative for something that is instead more morally grey and less impactful

The narrative choices are very specific to make you feel the desire for revenge, the second act with Abby to see that the accomplishment of revenge doesn't pay off and the final act with Ellie to put you back in her shoes and make you feel disconnected from her continued desire for revenge. You are supposed to feel like she is going too far, that the final part is not necessary

 

[Satoru]

The narrative choices are very specific to make you feel the desire for revenge, the second act with Abby to see that the accomplishment of revenge doesn't pay off and the final act with Ellie to put you back in her shoes and make you feel disconnected from her continued desire for revenge. You are supposed to feel like she is going too far, that the final part is not necessary

This.

 

[Papacheeks]

It would have been a totally different narrative if you played Abby from the start and learned all her reasoning before she took revenge. All the visceral feeling of wanting revenge that both the player and Ellie felt towards this unknown Abby character would have been taken out of the narrative for something that is instead more morally grey and less impactful

The narrative choices are very specific to make you feel the desire for revenge, the second act with Abby to see that the accomplishment of revenge doesn't pay off and the final act with Ellie to put you back in her shoes and make you feel disconnected from her continued desire for revenge. You are supposed to feel like she is going too far, that the final part is not necessary

my issue is its beaten over the players head in how they should feel. And Ellie goes way overboard and I understand that its a journey that because she was consumed with revenge she basically loses more in the end and is not the same ellie we knew.

She's broken. And honestly the way Abbie's story ended she ended up the better person, she was broken, but she found someone to fight for. Ellie was just fighting for selfish reasons literally after almost losing Dina by hands of abbie. Abbie lets her go, and then the game should have ended. But it drags for another 4 hour plus and by that time I literally did not give a fuck.

Seriously the complaints by even professional reviewers are warranted. The game straight up has pacing issues, and has a unsatisfying ending. Even in how it was suppose to make you feel like shit.

It's not a game you want to replay because its so exhausting. Unlike part 1 where you can replay it a ton.

I believe there are stats out there in terms of hours replayed. And this game pales in comparison. When you design our game around a narrative, that literally drags almost twice as long as the original I think you have pacing issues. If it takes you almost double the time to tell a revenge tale, I think there's bloat somewhere and too much stuff that is over played or repeated.

By the end of the game I actually didn't care and felt unsatisfied character wise. The way it ends is just unsatisfying. And to me thats a failure in writing/pacing that no one will take responsibility for. But there is a lot of evidence that a lot of people disagreed internally with the final game and its playout.

 

[Satoru]

Seriously the complaints by even professional reviewers are warranted. The game straight up has pacing issues, and has a unsatisfying ending. Even in how it was suppose to make you feel like shit.

The same professional reviewers that nitpick every single sony game to oblivion but warrant Halo Infinite a close to 90 score? Or the same professional reviewers that gave glowing scores to Cyberpunk when it was a buggy mess and cut down so many of the features they said it would have? Yeah sorry, I don't trust them.

It's not a game you want to replay because its so exhausting. Unlike part 1 where you can replay it a ton.

I do.

 

[Papacheeks]

The same professional reviewers that nitpick every single sony game to oblivion but warrant Halo Infinite a close to 90 score? Or the same professional reviewers that gave glowing scores to Cyberpunk when it was a buggy mess and cut down so many of the features they said it would have? Yeah sorry, I don't trust them.



I do.

I didn't. ANd a lot of people who watched me play it literally by the end had no desire to play Part 2.

And they own PART 1 PS3 and remaster.

Sorry but when the fanbase is super divided and reviewers regardless of your deflecting are praising the game but pointing out things like pacing I think i have a valid point.

‘The Last Of Us Part 2’ Review: A Beautiful, Terrible Sequel

'The Last Of Us Part II' is a masterpiece of game design, and a total disaster when it comes to story.

www.forbes.com

Meanwhile, pacing is a mess. The Last Of Us Part II drags on far too long with too many encounters, too many dramatic moments and too much redundancy. I’d take a game half the length with just a few more interesting set-pieces to replace all the endless slaughter.

The Last of Us Part II is uncomfortable and exhausting, but that’s what makes it great

The long-awaited sequel is almost here.

www.theverge.com

By the end of a big blockbuster game like this, my mind usually jumps to what will come next or puzzles over some of the mysteries in the story. With The Last of Us Part II, I was glad it was over. Just like Ellie, I was exhausted.

The Last of Us Part 2 review: We’re better than this

Did you know murder is wrong?

www.polygon.com

The problem is that Part 2 becomes torture to play if you already disagree with Joel’s decision, or, heck, even if you just had some doubts about whether it was the right call. “Feel bad about the fact that you’re doing all of this,” the creative team seems to whisper to you, again and again, describing things I already didn’t want Ellie to actually do, but had no choice in if I wanted the game’s story to continue. I was never given any other options, but that didn’t stop the game’s writing for blaming me for its own story. Would the designers feel better, would I be less complicit, if I just refused to buy or play the game at all?

The Last of Us Part 2 depicts individual people who are instead ruthless, capable, yet self-absorbed, and whose perception of violence is limited to how it affects them and their chosen family members. They are almost unbelievably unable to see the bigger picture. Part 2 ends up feeling needlessly bleak, at a time when a nihilistic worldview has perhaps never been less attractive. Its characters are surviving, but they’re not learning, and they’re certainly not making anything better.

Maybe the most surprising thing that The Last of Us Part 2 offered me was the surety that, while the game was made with great skill and craft, we are actually much, much better than Naughty Dog thinks we are.

The Last of Us Part II review: A brilliant game that is not what it seems

Naughty Dog has followed its masterpiece with another great game in The Last of Us Part II, where the story is not what it seems to be.

venturebeat.com

What you won’t like​

Long delays between story points

The Last of Us Part II has a story that is as compelling as they come. But Naughty Dog finds ways to string it out. My run was 40 hours, and not just because I was a bit of a completionist. My daughter finished it in about 35 hours, partly because she’s a better shot than I am.

Just a sample, and Venture Beat gave the game a glowing review 95/100.

But their issues were the pacing and some of the choices in how story beats played out, but said in the end it all came together "for them".


I think when you have a game thats this divisive, it's worth noting issues that seem to be seen by both players and reviewers regardless of some reviewers past reviews for other titles.

 

[Bryank75]

I didn't. ANd a lot of people who watched me play it literally by the end had no desire to play Part 2.

And they own PART 1 PS3 and remaster.

Sorry but when the fanbase is super divided and reviewers regardless of your deflecting are praising the game but pointing out things like pacing I think i have a valid point.

‘The Last Of Us Part 2’ Review: A Beautiful, Terrible Sequel

'The Last Of Us Part II' is a masterpiece of game design, and a total disaster when it comes to story.

www.forbes.com

The Last of Us Part II is uncomfortable and exhausting, but that’s what makes it great

The long-awaited sequel is almost here.

www.theverge.com

The Last of Us Part 2 review: We’re better than this

Did you know murder is wrong?

www.polygon.com

The Last of Us Part II review: A brilliant game that is not what it seems

Naughty Dog has followed its masterpiece with another great game in The Last of Us Part II, where the story is not what it seems to be.

venturebeat.com

Just a sample, and Venture Beat gave the game a glowing review 95/100.

But their issues were the pacing and some of the choices in how story beats played out, but said in the end it all came together "for them".


I think when you have a game thats this divisive, it's worth noting issues that seem to be seen by both players and reviewers regardless of some reviewers past reviews for other titles.

Yup, definitely saw some of those issues.
I enjoyed the game but the story had some moments where I could see clearly through the emotional manipulation... like you are trying to force me to empathize with this person and I just cannot....nomatter how many Zebras she helps! LOL

That said, it did a lot for gaming and I overall enjoyed it a lot.

 

[Satoru]

I didn't. ANd a lot of people who watched me play it literally by the end had no desire to play Part 2.

And a lot of people I know absolutely loved the game. Anecdotal statements are just that, anecdotal.

Sorry but when the fanbase is super divided and reviewers regardless of your deflecting are praising the game but pointing out things like pacing I think i have a valid point.

Source for the fanbase being divided? As for reviewers, when the verge calls Halo Infinite's campaign "very good" and polygon mentions that "Halo Infinite saves the series by finally doing something different", you can clearly see what I meant.

And by the way, I'm not saying your opinion is "wrong" or "invalid", I'm just challenging that the "division" is steep. It's not, and there was a lot of anti-sony bias when reviewing this game. This is not new, Days Gone got shafted even harder. People that didn't like this game (if you ignore the edgy teenagers complaining about Abby having muscles) are in the clear minority. Just read the bullshit reviews on Metacritic to understand that.

The Last of Us Part II user reviews

Metacritic aggregates music, game, tv, and movie reviews from the leading critics. Only Metacritic.com uses METASCORES, which let you know at a glance how each item was reviewed.

www.metacritic.com

Most negative reviews there are from single users and I will bet most of them were paid astroturfers.

I'll reiterate - This does not detract from your criticism. But it detracts from the game dividing most fans. It didn't.

 

[Papacheeks]

And a lot of people I know absolutely loved the game. Anecdotal statements are just that, anecdotal.



Source for the fanbase being divided? As for reviewers, when the verge calls Halo Infinite's campaign "very good" and polygon mentions that "Halo Infinite saves the series by finally doing something different", you can clearly see what I meant.

And by the way, I'm not saying your opinion is "wrong" or "invalid", I'm just challenging that the "division" is steep. It's not, and there was a lot of anti-sony bias when reviewing this game. This is not new, Days Gone got shafted even harder. People that didn't like this game (if you ignore the edgy teenagers complaining about Abby having muscles) are in the clear minority. Just read the bullshit reviews on Metacritic to understand that.

The Last of Us Part II user reviews

Metacritic aggregates music, game, tv, and movie reviews from the leading critics. Only Metacritic.com uses METASCORES, which let you know at a glance how each item was reviewed.

www.metacritic.com

Most negative reviews there are from single users and I will bet most of them were paid astroturfers.

I'll reiterate - This does not detract from your criticism. But it detracts from the game dividing most fans. It didn't.

It did when looking at sales, and looking at Neogaf, resetera, reddit for people talking about it. Youtubers who review games also commented on the game. And there are tons of legit channels.

When compared the Part 1, this game is super divisive. But I dont want to derail anymore so ill drop it.