Insomniac: 1 AAA game can fund 3 mid-sized games

[nongkris]

Two mid-sized games have similar net sales to one AAA game, while three could even overtake them.

Cool to hear Insomniac say something a lot of us here have been saying. Sony NEEDS to fund more mid sized titles! It lowers the budget but also quickens development time.

 

[anonpuffs]

They better be charging $50-60 then

 

[JAHGamer]

Even more evidence that Rift Apart wasn't a flop Love to see it.

And yes, I'd love more games the size of Miles Morales and Rift Apart. 2023 first party only had Spider-Man, Horizon VR, and MLB (gamepass). We can't have anymore years like this.

 

[nongkris]

Even more evidence that Rift Apart wasn't a flop Love to see it.

And yes, I'd love more games the size of Miles Morales and Rift Apart. 2023 first party only had Spider-Man, Horizon VR, and MLB (gamepass). We can't have anymore years like this.

Add Lost Legacy to the mid size games list. It's funny because I enjoyed the mid sized games better than their full sized counterparts.

 

[ethomaz]

Two mid-sized games have similar net sales to one AAA game, while three could even overtake them.

Cool to hear Insomniac say something a lot of us here have been saying. Sony NEEDS to fund more mid sized titles! It lowers the budget but also quickens development time.

Nah.

They just forget that these mid-sized games like Miles Morales used the engine and 90% of the assets from the AAA game.

That is why it dev cost is small.

If they had to build a mid-sized game without using the cost from the AAA their budget should be way higher.

Venom will be the next mid-sized game and it cost will be small because it will use all the work already done and paid in Spider-Man 2.

It is trick… because you are using the AAA costs for indirectly to build these mid-sized games.
So for me it just part of the AAA long term project.

Build an AAA base that pays itself.
Released 2-3 mid-sized using that AAA base and profit.
That is how we got these stand alone expansions like Miles Morales, The Lost Legacy, Left Behind, etc.

 

[Bryank75]

It's funny cause to me, RA and Mm didn't feel like smaller games. They felt like great full games and I was satisfied at the end.

All games don't need to be 30 to 40 hours.

It's the gameplay, story and overall quality that's most important. Deliver something memorable and that's it.

 

[JAHGamer]

Add Lost Legacy to the mid size games list. It's funny because I enjoyed the mid sized games better than their full sized counterparts.

Lost Legacy was amazing but idk bout all that

Nah.

They just forget that these mid-sized games like Miles Morales used the engine and 90% of the assets from the AAA game.

That is why it dev cost is small.

If they had to build a mid-sized game without using the cost from the AAA their budget should be way higher.

It's fine as a long term investment since it will be reused for future games. Like Spider-Man 2018 has done, and Rift Apart will do for the next R/C game.

 

[ethomaz]

Add Lost Legacy to the mid size games list. It's funny because I enjoyed the mid sized games better than their full sized counterparts.

Lost Legacy could only be made (exists) because you had all the work done with Ucharted 4 AAA.

 

[ethomaz]

Lost Legacy was amazing but idk bout all that

It's fine as a long term investment since it will be reused for future games. Like Spider-Man 2018 has done, and Rift Apart will do for the next R/C game.

Yeap it is very viable and optimized.
But it still requires a good AAA base for that.

I think 1 AAA with 2 stand-alone games using it is what Sony should focus… you take your time (3-4 years) to build your AAA and after use it to release 2 yearly mid-sized games (you release games in 3 consecutive years).

While that (these 3 years) you build a new AAA that will again be used as base for another two yearly mid-sized games.

If you look at Insommiac leaks slides they were planning exactly that.

 

[Cool hand luke]

Give me more Lost Legacies and Miles Moraleses

 

[Danja]

So Naughty Dog cracked the code 6 years ago? Lol

But yes, I am all for this. We also don't have unlimited time to dedicate to gaming nor unlimited funds, so smaller scale games will go a very long way for a good chunk of gamers.

I really hope Miles Morales was a wake up call. Short turn around and higher profit margins.

 

[Remember_Spinal]

The problem is nintendo can sell these “mid sized” games for 60 and 70 dollars, sony would be lucky to get away with selling them for 50.

Also, they need a lot of R&D to make games, most of these games would be spunn Off using the templates from their AAA games. It won’t be a bunch of small new IP’s

I hope if theres one thing these leaks do is stop people from bitching about game length or spider-man 2 not being “next gen” enough. Game development cost an arm and a leg no matter what you do. Even some of these “smaller” games that people love like Hi Fi Rush still took 5 years to make

 

[JAHGamer]

The problem is nintendo can sell these “mid sized” games for 60 and 70 dollars, sony would be lucky to get away with selling them for 50.

Also, they need a lot of R&D to make games, most of these games would be spunn Off using the templates from their AAA games. It won’t be a bunch of small new IP’s

I hope if theres one thing these leaks do is stop people from bitching about game length or spider-man 2 not being “next gen” enough. Game development cost an arm and a leg no matter what you do. Even some of these “smaller” games that people love like Hi Fi Rush still took 5 years to make

Rift Apart was $70 and was a success, Miles Morales was $50 and an even bigger success. Nothing wrong with them being spin offs, no one is expecting a new IP every 2 years

 

[Remember_Spinal]

Rift Apart was $70 and was a success, Miles Morales was $50 and an even bigger success. Nothing wrong with them being spin offs, no one is expecting a new IP every 2 years

Theres also a risk of fatigue with some of these games. By the time spider-man 3 comes out it will be the 5th spider-man game not including remasters.

Ratchet and clank is on its like 16th entry? I think when people say they want smaller Games they want stuff that japan studio used to make, not more of the same stuff we get already

Best move for sony is to buy a company like devolver digital and sprinkle in all those games inbetween the AAA games

 

[JAHGamer]

Theres also a risk of fatigue with some of these games. By the time spider-man 3 comes out it will be the 5th spider-man game not including remasters.

Ratchet and clank is on its like 16th entry? I think when people say they want smaller Games they want stuff that japan studio used to make, not more of the same stuff we get already

Best move for sony is to buy a company like devolver digital and sprinkle in all those games inbetween the AAA games

Fatigue isn't an issue at all, Insomniac loves making these games and fans love to play them.

I don't like a Devolver acquisition, they're way too PC centric, have been multiplat for over 10 years, they don't even own most of the games they publish, and the few studios they do own don't make games that would appeal to most PlayStation gamers. That acquisition doesn't make much sense, a better acquisition would be Ember Lab. Kena is perfect textbook PlayStation game, it's a brand new IP and with good support, they could make several. It's already a PlayStation console exclusive and it didn't do that well on PC, so it wouldn't hurt anyone if all their future games became PS exclusives.

 

[Remember_Spinal]

Fatigue isn't an issue at all, Insomniac loves making these games and fans love to play them.

I don't like a Devolver acquisition, they're way too PC centric, have been multiplat for over 10 years, they don't even own most of the games they publish, and the few studios they do own don't make games that would appeal to most PlayStation gamers. That acquisition doesn't make much sense, a better acquisition would be Ember Lab. Kena is perfect textbook PlayStation game, it's a brand new IP and with good support, they could make several. It's already a PlayStation console exclusive and it didn't do that well on PC, so it wouldn't hurt anyone if all their future games became PS exclusives.

People say that because kena is a small game but it’s almost 2024 and they still haven’t announced a new title. At. Best their next game is 2025 which still puts them at a 4 year cycle, which is only one year apart from how long it took for Santa Monica to make ragnarok.

I’m talking about studios that have way higher outputs, which is rare. Even a studio like super giant is taking years inbetween hades and hades 2, or team cherry taking years inbetween hollowknights. Smaller games in scope in budget don’t typically mean they release faster which is part of the problem.

They need someone that can go out and incubate small indie and double A titles like Devolver does. Sort of like a western version of the china hero project

 

[JAHGamer]

People say that because kena is a small game but it’s almost 2024 and they still haven’t announced a new title. At. Best their next game is 2025 which still puts them at a 4 year cycle, which is only one year apart from how long it took for Santa Monica to make ragnarok.

I’m talking about studios that have way higher outputs, which is rare. Even a studio like super giant is taking years inbetween hades and hades 2, or team cherry taking years inbetween hollowknights. Smaller games in scope in budget don’t typically mean they release faster which is part of the problem.

They need someone that can go out and incubate small indie and double A titles like Devolver does. Sort of like a western version of the china hero project

You're forgetting they were a 12 employee studio when Kena launched, and I don't think they've grown significantly since. They're also not just a purely game dev studio, they're contracted by other companies for animation work. I'm sure with full backing from Sony and only focusing on game dev, they could cut their time shorter. There's a rumor they're working on a new IP too and not another Kena game, as well as a TV show, which explains the long time. IDK how true that is though.

I’m talking about studios that have way higher outputs, which is rare. Even a studio like super giant is taking years inbetween hades and hades 2, or team cherry taking years inbetween hollowknights. Smaller games in scope in budget don’t typically mean they release faster which is part of the problem.

The only way this is possible is by acquiring an entire publisher, like you said about Devolver, which I don't think is worth the hassle.

They need someone that can go out and incubate small indie and double A titles like Devolver does. Sort of like a western version of the china hero project

This is Shuheis role and he's done a pretty good job so far. No acquisitions but he's secured exclusives and timed exclusives for a lot of good indie games like Kena, Stray, Sifu, Eternights, F.IS.T, etc

 

[Remember_Spinal]

You're forgetting they were a 12 employee studio when Kena launched, and I don't think they've grown significantly since. They're also not just a purely game dev studio, they're contracted by other companies for animation work. I'm sure with full backing from Sony and only focusing on game dev, they could cut their time shorter. There's a rumor they're working on a new IP too and not another Kena game, as well as a TV show, which explains the long time. IDK how true that is though.

That doesn’t really do any good for the current situation then. Sony don’t need a nice AA game every 4 years like they’ve been getting from their other studios they need a smattering of smaller games, preferably with their own IP attached to it.

Similar to the deal they are striking with NCSoft working with Guerrilla games. Some like an Ubisoft or EA originals division, that can make smaller stuff like Prince of Persona lost crown but with Kratos instead. Or a Ratchet and CLANK RTS/Strategy spinoff game, etc.

The only way this is possible is by acquiring an entire publisher, like you said about Devolver, which I don't think is worth the hassle.


This is Shuheis role and he's done a pretty good job so far. No acquisitions but he's secured exclusives and timed exclusives for a lot of good indie games like Kena, Stray, Sifu, Eternights, F.IS.T, etc

The problem is even though a lot of those games are exclusive they aren’t really associated with sony, maybe Stray and Kena but a lot of inidies come and go without much fanfare, like Humanity.

They need a label like XBOX@ID or whatever they brings some of those smaller funded games under their banner. It would help the indie studios being more associated with a big brand like sony and it would allow sony to plug holes in their line up to casual consumers. Like i said before, sony should be incubating smaller devs to work on their IP either internally or externally.

Sony have a dearth of IP not being utilized and a lot of smaller studios needing spotlight and funding. I dont think sonys bigger studios really have a lot of room for experimentation with more games.

They should be offering smaller devs a chance to work on Jak & Daxter, twisted metal, Sly Cooper, infamous, ape escape, etc. games.

 

[JAHGamer]

that can make smaller stuff like Prince of Persona lost crown but with Kratos instead. Or a Ratchet and CLANK RTS/Strategy spinoff game, etc.

No offense but these ideas sound awful Kratos character is too prestigious for a spinoff, he shouldn't be touched outside of the maingames. And a Rift Apart RTS/Strategy game? You can't be serious

The problem is even though a lot of those games are exclusive they aren’t really associated with sony, maybe Stray and Kena but a lot of inidies come and go without much fanfare, like Humanity.

They need a label like XBOX@ID or whatever they brings some of those smaller funded games under their banner. It would help the indie studios being more associated with a big brand like sony and it would allow sony to plug holes in their line up to casual consumers. Like i said before, sony should be incubating smaller devs to work on their IP either internally or externally.

Sony have a dearth of IP not being utilized and a lot of smaller studios needing spotlight and funding. I dont think sonys bigger studios really have a lot of room for experimentation with more games.

They should be offering smaller devs a chance to work on Jak & Daxter, twisted metal, Sly Cooper, infamous, ape escape, etc. games.

This is true, and even the China Hero Project game that Sony funds eventually all go to Xbox. This is a very good idea, Riot Games is kind of doing something similar to this with Riot Forge, where they have other studios make games around their own League of Legends characters. And it's working out great imo.

 

[Petekilla]

Sony is now going to be pressuring Insomniac to make budget cuts. Even though ya’ll hate it. There’s a reason why Sony is focusing on GAAS. It’s to recoup cost of these very high unsustainable costs of AAA development. This is what Shawn Layden feared.