Jez Corden and Resetera peddle Capcom MT framework conspiracy theory

26 Nov 2023
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Games used to sell fairly decent on Xbox, but it also shows how sales have constantly deteriorated on the platform over time. Thats the Gamepass effect for you
 

ethomaz

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I just edited the post to explain better what I meant and fix some stuff.

Other than that, it is a fact that there are tons of cases of Sony, Nintendo and MS signing total or timed console exclusivity for titles, and that sometimes includes ports/remasters/collections of old games.

Why? To make money, they are companies. Even if some of them are old or niche titles, they are grains of sand that make the beach that is their catalog of (in many cases timed, or console) exclusives that differentiate their console from the other ones. Most exclusives aren't supersellers or AAA titles, but instead are smaller projects that serve certain niche.

Regarding deals, when Capcom signed the Street Fighter V deal, that deal also included console exclusivity generation of not only Street Fighter V, but for the other mainline entries of the series. It included the PS4 port (funded and outsourced by Sony) of Ultra Street Fighter IV and Street Fighter 6.

XBO was able to play the 360 version of USFIV via BC, but didn't get a dedicated port. Nintendo signed for Switch's (maybe Switch wasn't counted as the same generation as PS4, or they didn't care about another SF2 rehash) Ultra Street Fighter II, which basically is a Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix port with a few minor additions.

Sony also signed many (in some case timed) console exclusivity deals, or at least to block the Xbox version, for many games. In case of ARC System Works, many of them are fighting games: Guilty Gear Strive,Under Night In-Birth: Exe Late[cl-r], Under Night In-Birth II, Kill la Kill: if, Hunter x Hunter and. Sony also bought EVO and Lasengle (publisher of the fighting game Melty Blood Type Lumina).

With SNK they signed (in a few cases timed) console exclusivity, or at least to keep it outside Xbox for many of their PS4 titles: KOFXIV, SNK Heroines, KOF 2002UM, Samurai Shodown, plus a PS4 generation exclusive version of KOF98 Ultimate Match and KOF XIII. That deal pretty likely was for the generation, because it didn't extend to their current gen titles (KOFXV and Fatal Fury City of the Wolves), which also are releasing on Xbox.

And same goes with other fighting game devs/publishers for both new and old games. Pretty likely Sony wants to highlight PS as the reference platform for fighting games.

These deals don't only include exclusivity of games. Beyond fighting games, the deal that Jim Ryan signed for RE Village included to allign marketing with PS, blocking it on Xbox, blocking it to be on GP for over a year, to get exclusivity of potential bundles, betas/demos and console VR version (Village and RE4R so far) of the series for this generation.

A generation long deal as in the previous one they did with SF, maybe this time with a lower profile of deal because RE titles cost and sell way more and Capcom is now in a way better financial shape, so the deal must have been way more expensive than the SF one.

Again, small grains of sand from here and there to build their paradise beach that makes their console more appealing than their direct competitor, Xbox. And to slowly kill its market share until 3rd parties at some point decide isn't worth it to release their games there.


Some of the exclusivities signed by Sony are timed, others are permanent. Some of the deals are applied to a single title, some others include to all the games of a a series released across a period of time. We don't know which is the case of this one, but I'd bet permanent because of Sony's deal with Marvel.

Now I remember that in the Insomniac leak we also saw a Wolverine related document that mentioned that Sony had signed with Marvel exclusivity for X-Men games and characters usage in games until the end of 2035, including the exception: "The characters can still appear and be playable in multi-family Marvel games like Avengers or Ultimate Alliance".

Or who knows if Sony signed a deal directly with Capcom, we know for a fact that Capcom signed a deal with Sony for the SF series titles released in the past generation and for the RE series for this generation.

We also see above PS, Swith & PC getting Ace Attorney and MH Stories 1 & 2 late ports while Xbox not getting them. Having it for all the other versions, an Xbox port would be so cheap for them, with a few thousand copies sold it would be profitable.

So in this case of the Marvel collection I assume it isn't in Xbox because of Sony deals either with Capcom or with Marvel, I assume they scrapped the bottom of the barrel to see what they could get. Now that they have this new collection, pretty likely next year they'll put Marvel Vs Capcom 2 at EVO running on PS5.

But yes, PS is the best selling platform for Capcom and Xbox the worst one. So it wouldn't be rare that Capcom simply decided to stop releasing the low selling titles on Xbox as the Xbox market share keeps getting smaller and smaller.


Capcom normally releases their games multiplatform, but frequenlty signs deals with everyone.

Maybe in this case signed with Sony because of EVO and their X-Men exclusivity deal with Marvel. Or maybe since now Capcom is stronger they didn't want to make the mainline MH, RE or SF exclusive and scrapping the bottom the barrel Sony got what they could.

In case of MS, from time to time Capcom releases something on Game Pass. In fact not only with Capcom, MS's 3rd party deals since many years ago aren't focused on getting console exclusivity but instead to get from time to time cool day one GP titles.

As an example of this, this month Kunitsu-Gami has been released day one on Game Pass.
Big games yes like RE.
Smaller games? I don’t think so.

BTW people seems to forget Capcom Fighting Collection runs on MT Framework (the same or Marvel vs Capcom) and it has a Xbox version.

It was released in 2022.
Now in 2024 Marvel vs Capcom Collection can’t?

Xbots using Mt Framerowk as exclusive is just laughable bullshit… there is any technical issue at all just business decision.
 
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Cool hand luke

Cool hand luke

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I notice through quotes that we've moved on from MT framework conspiracies to exclusivity deal conspiracies.

Here's what actually happened to the FGC community on Xbox:

Sony signed 1 deal with Capcom to fund SFV, reviving the franchise, and cementing PlayStation as the only place to play all of the top/competitive fighting games. The community and sales cratered on Xbox. Not declined. Cratered. Sony will never have to make another deal for a fighting game again.

It was a masterclass.
 

Yurinka

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BTW people seems to forget Capcom Fighting Collection runs on MT Framework (the same or Marvel vs Capcom) and it has a Xbox version.

It was released in 2022.
Now in 2024 Marvel vs Capcom Collection can’t?
As you can see earlier in this thread, Capcom released many collections/remasters of emulated games in recent years, being Capcom Fighting Collection only one of them.

As can be seen there, the ones developed by Capcom moved from MT Framework to RE Engine. They started to release RE Engine ones in 2022 and since that year all the released ones use RE Engine, like the rest of recent new Capcom games, both big like Street Fighter 6 or Kunitsu-Gami, or small like Ghost & Goblins Resurrection.

If desired they could make it with MT Framework, yes. But their new games and collections released in the last couple of years use RE Engine instead.

I notice through quotes that we've moved on from MT framework conspiracies to exclusivity deal conspiracies.

Here's what actually happened to the FGC community on Xbox:

Sony signed 1 deal with Capcom to fund SFV, reviving the franchise, and cementing PlayStation as the only place to play all of the top/competitive fighting games. The community and sales cratered on Xbox. Not declined. Cratered. Sony will never have to make another deal for a fighting game again.

It was a masterclass.
Capcom publicly mentioned that the Street Fighter deal for console exclusivity for that PS4 generation wasn't limited to Street Fighter V, and you can see that Sony is the publisher of USFIV PS4 port in any website or the PSN store and that SF6 has not been released on XBO.

Regarding Resident Evil, the complete contract of their deal with Sony was leaked. I can upload it if you don't find it somewhere.

In the Insomniac leak document it was also mentioned the X-Men and related characters exclusivity deal (with the "multi-family" exception) for Sony until the end of 2035.

The existence of these 3 deals are facts, not conspiracy theories. Companies do sign exclusivity deals. We know Sony signed exclusivity deals with Capcom, with Marvel and with several fighting game publishers.

But regarding this specific collection we aren't sure if the lack of Xbox version is because of this.
 
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Vertigo

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Jez is shilling for CoD on X right now like it’s the first time he’s ever played it and discovered Jesus. It’s maximum gamepass shill slop. Dude is embarrassing. Please tell me he’s on payroll. At least he’s not colt levels of douchebaggery.
 
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@Yurinka do you have proof Sony/SIE explicitly signed timed exclusivity deals for games like Guilty Gear Strive, Under Night, Kill la Kill? Or are you assuming those were exclusives due to Sony/SIE instead of the choice of the 3P developer or publisher (i.e no specific involvement from Sony/SIE)?

Also WRT EVO; Sony/SIE only co-own it, i.e they own 50% of it. Another company retains ownership of the other 50%, but I don't see the point in mentioning Sony/SIE owning Evo in relation to exclusive fighting games on PS4/PS5 unless to insinuate that Sony/SIE somehow purchased exclusivity on those games to justify buying 50% of Evo, or that them buying 50% of Evo pushed them to buy exclusivity on those games. Neither of which are true, BTW.

Bringing up games like RE Village isn't necessary, because I was just asking about Sony/SIE moneyhatting re-releases of old/legacy games (as re-releases and compilations). Then you mentioned niche fighting games as potential other instances of Sony/SIE moneyhatting, which I don't think is the case. Now you've also mentioned the Ace Attorney games & MH Stories games skipping Xbox. The reason you say they should have Xbox versions is because it's a minuscule cost (supposedly) and "free money". The truth is, the costs aren't insignificant enough to be "practically zero" in practice, and resources for optimization are finite. Capcom have B2P sales of prior games on platforms like Xbox over the last several years, and likely decided the B2P sales were not worth the costs for porting and optimization (or getting certification for the game to release on Xbox platforms).

So I don't know if you're also insinuating if Sony/SIE are involved in "blocking" those games on Xbox but that makes no sense to think, considering those same games are on other platforms where for that particular game's audience, said other platforms compete much more strongly against PlayStation with than Xbox. Yes Sony/SIE would have no problem allowing the games on those systems, while having a problem of them being on a much weaker (direct) competitor?

That just doesn't make any sense. I mean maybe you are trying to play devil's advocate? But I think that's a waste of time when it comes to these particular Capcom games skipping Xbox, and only really just galvanizes Xbox console warriors to prop up anti-PlayStation conspiracy theories (by pinning Sony/SIE as the blame for these games not being on Xbox). I genuinely don't think devil's advocate-ism is worth it in this case.
 

AllBizness

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Xbots see Capcom as a company that will absolutely release all their games on Xbox and cant even fathom them not doing so. That's where this is coming from. And this is just because Capcom came out and said PC will be their min platform prior to PS5 launching. Those idiots dont realize Capcom is still a Japanese company and Sony will always have offer of 1st refusal with them pretty much.
 

Yurinka

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@Yurinka do you have proof? Sony/SIE explicitly signed timed exclusivity deals for games like Guilty Gear Strive, Under Night, Kill la Kill? Or are you assuming those were exclusives due to Sony/SIE instead of the choice of the 3P developer or publisher (i.e no specific involvement from Sony/SIE)?
I have proof for the previous gen SF deal (there were public quotes in interviews), the RE series deal ((I have the leaked document), or the X-Men series and characters deal (I don't have the image now, but was one of the Wolverine powerpoints form the Insomniac leak).

Regarding the many exclusives -mostly fighting games- they had with companies like ARC System Works or SNK I don't have proof that they were exclusive because of a deal with Sony, it's just an assumption. The most similar thing is a quote from Jim Ryan saying he had signed more 3rd party exclusives for the PS5 generation than for any previous generation and that they were making a special effort with Japanese devs/publishers.

I think it's quite suspicious that other publishers/developers released basically all their fighting games on Xbox but not SNK and ARC. Specially in the case of SNK, since in their case seems to be a change with the change of the generation: they had many exclusives in the PS4 gen games but this generation so far their 2 releases also have been released on Xbox (plus the late port of Samurai Shodown 2019). As if they had a generation long deal with Sony for the PS4 generation but this new generation, now with Saudi money, prefered to go full multiplatform instead.

Also WRT EVO; Sony/SIE only co-own it, i.e they own 50% of it. Another company retains ownership of the other 50%, but I don't see the point in mentioning Sony/SIE owning Evo in relation to exclusive fighting games on PS4/PS5 unless to insinuate that Sony/SIE somehow purchased exclusivity on those games to justify buying 50% of Evo, or that them buying 50% of Evo pushed them to buy exclusivity on those games. Neither of which are true, BTW.

We don't know if SIE owns 50%, 100%, 99% or 1% of the joint venture E-Sports Evolution, LLC that SIE and RTS created for EVO because they didn't share it.

Their partner for the EVO acquisiton, RTS, is an eSports events organizator and content creator talent management agency, so their role is to organize the event and give it visibility via their streamers. Sony uses EVO to market their consoles, subscription, games, gaming monitors and gaming accesories to the fighting games genre fans.

Why to buy EVO and why to sign all the fighting game exclusives? Easy, because the genre is one of the most popular ones in their console and like GaaS it grew a ton in the PS3 and PS4 generations. In the press release of the EVO acquisition they mentioned: "Fighting games are hugely popular on PlayStation consoles, with gamers logging more than 1.1 billion gameplay hours in 2020 alone".

We have to remember that basically all the main fighting game series are selling better than ever, now are GaaS and perform well enough to be highlighted as a special interest group in the leaked Insomniac documents we saw where they analyzed the performance of GaaS titles.

Bringing up games like RE Village isn't necessary, because I was just asking about Sony/SIE moneyhatting re-releases of old/legacy games (as re-releases and compilations).
That example is necesary to see that 3rd party companies sign exclusivity deals of different types, and more specifically Capcom with Sony. So wouldn't be something rare or new to sign another deal for other titles.

In this particular case, we have access to the document to see the details of these deals. As in this case, the deal covering more stuff of the RE series and not only RE Village (as I remember mentioned VR versions, so affecting the RE4 remake). I can upload it somewhere if you want to see it.

It isn't limited to re-releases/remasters/collections, or fighting games, but it's the most similar case we have of a leaked contract and in this case between Capcom and Sony. We also have the quotes regarding the SFV focused deal (which also covered more games) and the Wolverine/X-Men deal of Sony with Marvel (briefly mentioned in a leaked Insomniac powerpoint).

Now you've also mentioned the Ace Attorney games & MH Stories games skipping Xbox. The reason you say they should have Xbox versions is because it's a minuscule cost (supposedly) and "free money". The truth is, the costs aren't insignificant enough to be "practically zero" in practice, and resources for optimization are finite. Capcom have B2P sales of prior games on platforms like Xbox over the last several years, and likely decided the B2P sales were not worth the costs for porting and optimization (or getting certification for the game to release on Xbox platforms).

So I don't know if you're also insinuating if Sony/SIE are involved in "blocking" those games on Xbox but that makes no sense to think, considering those same games are on other platforms where for that particular game's audience, said other platforms compete much more strongly against PlayStation with than Xbox. Yes Sony/SIE would have no problem allowing the games on those systems, while having a problem of them being on a much weaker (direct) competitor?
Yes, maybe Capcom decided itself to don't release it on Xbox due to low sales without receiving money from Sony, and without being affected by the SIE+Marvel deal regarding X-Men.

But as I mentioned before Capcom also released for Xbox (in 2024) Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney Trilogy and Ace Attorney Investigations Collection. Two collections of emulated games of a series that sell less than Marvel Vs Capcom.

If the reason would be the low sales on Xbox, why would they release these Ace Attorney titles on Xbox and not the Marvel one?
 
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ethomaz

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As you can see earlier in this thread, Capcom released many collections/remasters of emulated games in recent years, being Capcom Fighting Collection only one of them.

As can be seen there, the ones developed by Capcom moved from MT Framework to RE Engine. They started to release RE Engine ones in 2022 and since that year all the released ones use RE Engine, like the rest of recent new Capcom games, both big like Street Fighter 6 or Kunitsu-Gami, or small like Ghost & Goblins Resurrection.

If desired they could make it with MT Framework, yes. But their new games and collections released in the last couple of years use RE Engine instead.
That doesn’t even make sense.
Marvel vs Capcom Collection is a new collection and uses MT Framework… it is not the last one… we will get more in the future.

Capcom didn’t stop to use MT Framework… I have no idea where you made that logic.
 

TubzGaming

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That doesn’t even make sense.
Marvel vs Capcom Collection is a new collection and uses MT Framework… it is not the last one… we will get more in the future.

Capcom didn’t stop to use MT Framework… I have no idea where you made that logic.
RE Engine is a gaming engine developed by Capcom. The successor of MT Framework, it was initially built for Resident Evil 7: Biohazard and has since appeared in several Capcom games.
Unlike its predecessor, the MT Framework, the RE Engine includes a variety of new graphical and rendering techniques such as Subsurface Scattering (a shader method used to produce highly realistic human skin), Dynamic shadows, FXAA + TAA, Shadow cache, moreover, rendering techniques include the ability to output 4K Resolution, HDR, a VR specific mode, among others.
 

ethomaz

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Sorry what do you even mean with these quotes?

Marvel vs Capcom Collection is using MT Framework not RE Engine.
 

2spooky5me

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The fact Xbox Korea is so unprofessional and tweeting like your average LBot blogger, is EMBARRASSING!
I hope Phil Spencer and crew realize how unprofessional and infantile they are acting.

Can you imagine if PS or Nintendo and their spin-off Twitter accounts were being goofy like that?
 

JAHGamer

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The fact Xbox Korea is so unprofessional and tweeting like your average LBot blogger, is EMBARRASSING!
I hope Phil Spencer and crew realize how unprofessional and infantile they are acting.

Can you imagine if PS or Nintendo and their spin-off Twitter accounts were being goofy like that?
that's not an official Xbox Korean page lmao, thats just an Xbox fanboy from Korea. Probably the only Xbox owner in the entire country 😂
 

Yurinka

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That doesn’t even make sense.
Not only makes sense, it's the reality proven by the facts I posted in the list you seem to refuse to read.

Marvel vs Capcom Collection is a new collection and uses MT Framework… it is not the last one… we will get more in the future.
Jez said it uses MT Framework, which may or may not be true. He may be wrong like you, ignoring that all the many new games, remakes and compilations developed by Capcom released after Capcom Fighting Collection (released mid 2022, it was the last MT Framework new release) use RE Engine, and that there are RE Engine titles that also skipped Xbox. And that obviously nothing stops them using MT Framework for new stuff and release it for Xbox if they want to do so in case that for some reason they don't want to use its successor RE Engine.

The only exceptions of recent MT Framework releases are the ports of the recent MH Stories PS4 ports, because they already were MT Framework and would be nonsensical to change the engine for a port.

So it's more logical to think that they did use RE Engine for this collection, unless they already had it ready years ago but had to wait for some reason, as could be licensing issues, some free roadmap/marketing spot or something like that.

Capcom didn’t stop to use MT Framework… I have no idea where you made that logic.
Of course they did stop using MT Framework, you'd know it if you'd read the list I posted. Since Capcom Fighting Collection, other than the MH Stories ports, everything they released, including several collections and emulated games, are RE Engine titles.

Marvel vs Capcom Collection is using MT Framework not RE Engine.
According to what? Is there any decent source that isn't parroting Jez's tweet that says so?
 
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Jivesh1995

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(Capcom Leak 2020)

slider_trilogy_pc_en.jpg

  • Nintendo Switch : 462.395
  • PC Steam : 245.339
  • PlayStation 4 : 103.235
  • Xbox One : 4.821
fArFhTi.png

  • Nintendo Switch : 600.000
  • PC Steam : 536.000
  • PlayStation 3 : 529.000
  • PlayStation 4 : 445.000
  • Xbox One : 121.000
Original
  • PS2 : 300.000
  • Wii : 300.000
capsule_616x353.jpg

  • PlayStation 4 : 1.700.000
  • PC Steam : 1.100.000
  • Xbox One : 324.000
67aa26e23591655769aa79c47f9d0dea7bb2a0bc.jpeg

  • PlayStation 4 : 207.453
  • Nintendo Switch : 111.869
  • Xbox One : 39.802
  • PC Steam : 34.331



Imagine if Capcom games on PSN were as cheap as the Steam versions? Locally even the eShop versions are cheaper.
 
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TheLastOfSnatcher

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Not only makes sense, it's the reality proven by the facts I posted in the list you seem to refuse to read.


Jez said it uses MT Framework, which may or may not be true. He may be wrong like you, ignoring that all the many new games, remakes and compilations developed by Capcom released after Capcom Fighting Collection (released mid 2022, it was the last MT Framework new release) use RE Engine, and that there are RE Engine titles that also skipped Xbox. And that obviously nothing stops them using MT Framework for new stuff and release it for Xbox if they want to do so in case that for some reason they don't want to use its successor RE Engine.

The only exceptions of recent MT Framework releases are the ports of the recent MH Stories PS4 ports, because they already were MT Framework and would be nonsensical to change the engine for a port.

So it's more logical to think that they did use RE Engine for this collection, unless they already had it ready years ago but had to wait for some reason, as could be licensing issues, some free roadmap/marketing spot or something like that.


Of course they did stop using MT Framework, you'd know it if you'd read the list I posted. Since Capcom Fighting Collection, other than the MH Stories ports, everything they released, including several collections and emulated games, are RE Engine titles.


According to what? Is there any decent source that isn't parroting Jez's tweet that says so?



Ignoring most of your argument but Maximilian himself confirmed the collection to still utilize MT frameworks. He already played it, and he made extended videos about it.

It would be a nightmare for them to even attempt to convert these games under the RE Engine. The original source code utilizes MT Framework. What you are alluding to sounds more like a remake, this is clearly not.
 
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Jim Ryan

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It just gets sadder and sadder.

What do they get out of this shameless behaviour?

It's not like the games would even sell on Xbox anyway
 

Shadow2027

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Imagine if Capcom games on PSN were as cheap as the Steam versions? Locally even the eShop versions are cheaper.
Yeah that is always the overlooked part of Steam sales numbers. Average price sold, how many were bought for like $5 there or from another site, a part of a humble bundle etc.
 
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