Key example of unnecessary bloat in PlayStation Studios

[Johnic]

Obviously "writing" has different components but the fact that games like Elden Ring, or the Yakuza games which often have 2-3 writers, are successful is indicative that more is not necessarily better.

I wouldn't mention any Soulsborne games in a conversation of writing.

These games do only vague stories and focus mostly on lore.

Lore you have to dig through across several mediums and fan written theories.

 

[Kokoloko]

I wouldn't mention any Soulsborne games in a conversation of writing.

These games do only vague stories and focus mostly on lore.

Lore you have to dig through across several mediums and fan written theories.

But all so awesome.
I think it takes alot of brains/writers to come up with the stuff they have in Bloodborne and Dark Souls etc.

Each item description is so important to the games “story” or lore. And has to be alot more specific because it would ruin the story/lore if they get wrong.

Alot less space for misakes compared to most games

 

[Johnic]

But all so awesome.
I think it takes alot of brains/writers to come up with the stuff they have in Bloodborne and Dark Souls etc. Each item description is so important to the games “story” or lore. And has to be alot more specific because it would ruin the story/lore if they get wrong.

Alot less space for misakes compared to most games

Miyazaki himself admitted he writes his stories incredibly vague on purpose. Apparently, when he was growing up he didn't speak much English but had English movies in his library. So he'd rent them and watch but could only understand bits of it. So he made the missing parts up himself.

That's how these games are made. You have an overworld and the core lore and then players have to fill the rest in, often times with conflicting theories.

Bloodborne is the only FS game I REALLY got into. And I mean really. Finished it once then watched hours of lore/theories and read fan essays on it. It has an excellent world and excellent lore. But most players wouldn't know much about it because you have to dig through theories and information obtained in interviews to piece it all together. And even then there's a lot of guesswork.

That's what I'm not a fan of. Having to go outside of the game for lore details.

Also, I have no idea how crap gets greenlit but BB still doesn't have a movie. Seriously, that thing oozes with atmosphere.

 

[Satoru]

can you teach us how spiderman 2 writing was miles better than spiderman with this miles bigger writing team?

I didn't say it was.

you can clearly see the tweet, to which we are responding.

I can. And that tweet doesn't take in consideration how credits are attributed and how that may have changed, which people are full time employees vs contractors. It's good to say "bigger number didn't yield better results", but without understanding why the bigger number is there, people are just shouting at the wind.

it is clearly misconception to what bloat is in this case and what actually isn't. i made myself clear multiple times on this matter and supported you multiple times times too.

See above.

in this case, adding 0 reports on writers crunch, plus, taking into account previously written games and books etc.. i am in conclusion that the writing team was bloated. unless you can share more real info.

I can't share more info because, like you and all the others in this thread, unless you want to go credit stalk and linkedin stalk people, I cannot make an informed comment. Yeah, the writing team may have had too many people, they may have changed how credits are attributed, or they may have had more employee attrition leading to more names / roles, or they may have had role changes and designations, they may have had more contractors, the game may have 5x more lines of text (I doubt), they may have split roles between types of missions...

Do you see my point? We don't know enough

I do dislike the usage of the word "bloat" regardless, because we're talking about people. Nobody seems to talk about bloat when people like Jim Ryan are paid in the region of millions only to do a piss poor job, or when Hermen Hulst spends more time on the beach than time running studios. I've actually yet to see a single tweet mentioning that.

while i still believe in this particular case, it isn't exclusive to other factors. like that Jimbo and Hulst fucked up royally and it costing people jobs, while they are getting paid millions.

it is really sad that some people invested massive time and effort to work there, even moved to the other country just to lose the job, just that suits get more money.

Fully agree.

 

[Impulse]

I have to say that I find the extra writers and management did not result in a product anywhere near as good as the first games writing.

The side quests were almost entirely superior to SM1.

The 1st game didn't have balloon fetching quests, but my god were all the side quests completely useless in terms of storytelling.

 

[Nimrota]

I wouldn't mention any Soulsborne games in a conversation of writing.

These games do only vague stories and focus mostly on lore.

Lore you have to dig through across several mediums and fan written theories.

But who makes the lore? Writers. "Vague stories" is an acceptable, and in fact potentially magnificent, method of writing. Take Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun as an example. People dig through several mediums and fan theories for Book of the New Sun, people publish dictionaries of words used exclusively in Book of the New Sun to let you learn about what you just read.

Perfectly fine to say that you don't enjoy that style of writing, but to dismiss it is incorrect imo. Souls games are certainly better written then something like Dragon Age Inqusition for example.

 

[SLB1904]

Here you go. Depending on when and at what price a Spiderman PS4 was sold, Disney might have got upwards of 45 dollars from it.

You think Sony only made $15? Come on blud.

This is what I found

How Sony and Disney make profit off Spider-Man on PlayStation

Then again, Marvel's Spider-Man is one of the best- and fastest-selling video game franchises and it's exclusive to PlayStation.

www.xfire.com

 

[Impulse]

Spider Man 2 writing isn't as good as the first game or even Miles for that matter. And jeez, 14 writers sounds like overkill to me and a situation of too many cooks in the kitchen.

For the sidequests it absolutely is.

Doing all the Kingpin hideouts in the 1st game resulted in Fisk making a very lame angry phone call that amounted to less than 1 minute and was ridiculously unsatisfying for the amount of work that got put in.

Meanwhile, doing all the Kraven hideouts and other sidequests in SM2 resulted in a surprisingly good story on how broken the Kravenoff family is, and ended with a visit to Chameleon's hideout that was a great highlight of the game. The Symbiote nest sidequest is the only one that doesn't bring much in impactful story moments.

 

[xollowsob]

Why do you need that many writers to copy a story that has been told a dozen times over many decades?

Just pick up a Spiderman comic and copy that. Insomniacs writing in Spiderman 2 is fucking terrible anyway.

 

[Kokoloko]

Miyazaki himself admitted he writes his stories incredibly vague on purpose. Apparently, when he was growing up he didn't speak much English but had English movies in his library. So he'd rent them and watch but could only understand bits of it. So he made the missing parts up himself.

That's how these games are made. You have an overworld and the core lore and then players have to fill the rest in, often times with conflicting theories.

Bloodborne is the only FS game I REALLY got into. And I mean really. Finished it once then watched hours of lore/theories and read fan essays on it. It has an excellent world and excellent lore. But most players wouldn't know much about it because you have to dig through theories and information obtained in interviews to piece it all together. And even then there's a lot of guesswork.

That's what I'm not a fan of. Having to go outside of the game for lore details.

Also, I have no idea how crap gets greenlit but BB still doesn't have a movie. Seriously, that thing oozes with atmosphere.

O yeah he grew up reading old fantasy books.

But they definitely put some thought into it. The things that connect and tell a story through the level design and items isnt coincidence. Only a few things are conflicting with fans like oden. But alot is kinda set. As in 90% of it at least. And the layers of history in Bloodborne especially is pretty crazy.
I put like 300+ hours into it haha, its a top 10 game of mine. I had to discover as much as I could

Im a fan of going out the game to get more info though I just love it. But its definitely not for everyone

BB would make a great series or anime. Especially a prequel with all the lore and characters

 

[Zzero]

You think Sony only made $15? Come on blud.

This is what I found

How Sony and Disney make profit off Spider-Man on PlayStation

Then again, Marvel's Spider-Man is one of the best- and fastest-selling video game franchises and it's exclusive to PlayStation.

www.xfire.com

I am talking about the PS4s that were sold with Spiderman included, not stand alone copies of the game.

 

[SLB1904]

I am talking about the PS4s that were sold with Spiderman included, not stand alone copies of the game.

Oh okay. Nevermind

 

[Gamernyc78]

Enough now with the @Satoru woke stuff please; we all enjoy a good laugh here and there, but it's getting a bit much now.

lets focus in what the real problem is on this forum: @Gamernyc78

You bastard always find a way to reel me in (pun intended)

 

[Would_you_kindly]

Those diversity consultation groups are a prime example of things they could cut to save money