Key example of unnecessary bloat in PlayStation Studios

ChorizoPicozo

Veteran
1 Jul 2022
1,697
1,306
People are the most expensive part of game development. I don't know if we could make correlations with Hollywood (there are more info about it), but there are people in positions of power in the entertainment industry that are definitely negatively impacting the whole process and the end result, especially in these western AAA blockbuster games.

What is 'alarming' with Sony is the fact that, when they consolidated in the PS3 era, the purpose was to be more efficient, productive, and secure a higher degree of success with each project. I think their track record speaks for itself, but at the same time, one of the negative effects of consolidation, creatively speaking, is homogeneity, which theoretically should further decrease costs and increase output.

So, something has to be fucked up systematically speaking. That there must be practices, guidelines that are messing up budgets and timelines.
 

historia

Veteran
Icon Extra
29 Jun 2023
2,818
2,717
@Satoru being a indeginous "intellectual" again.

No employers forcing employees to be flexible and jack of all trade.

No we all have eyes to what happens. Gaming sectors or tech sectors all have big growth over the Wuhan pandemic so they overhire with big remote jobs with decent pay thanks to being able skimped on office spaces. That leads to useless positions like community managers, social media managers, writing coordinators, bla bla bla.

Now they just laying them off because as usual those jobs only mean temporary anyway.

Banking foreign exchange bubble, .com bubble, now online services/gamming bubble. All eventually have to be bursted. AI/ML is the next one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nimrota

anonpuffs

Veteran
Icon Extra
29 Nov 2022
8,048
9,229


This is a direct comparison of the writing credits between Marvels Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2.

I have to say that I find the extra writers and management did not result in a product anywhere near as good as the first games writing.

Too many cooks in the kitchen
 
  • they're_right_you_know
Reactions: Muddasar

Sircaw

Pro Flounder
Moderating
20 Jun 2022
5,595
9,803
@Satoru being a indeginous "intellectual" again.
Do you mean indigenous or Disingenuous?

No one calls my boy a native and gets away with it.

Native American And Alaska Native Heritage Month GIF
 
  • haha
Reactions: Johnic

Gediminas

Boy...
Founder
21 Jun 2022
5,373
6,835
They are so bloated that I can guarantee that those picking up the slack will work way more for the same pay.

Fuck, I swear some people seem like they don't understand what is happening in the industry.

Layoffs where I worked resulted in something very simple: roles like mine suddenly turned into 3 or 4 roles, with people having to work overtime on shit they don't have expertise, only for the directors plus to get chunky bonuses and us not getting even a raise in two years.

This bloat people keep talking about is actual valuable employees losing their jobs so that executives can line their pockets further.

The industry and the products are becoming more complex, which means you need more people. Companies of course think that 1 person can do the job of 3 and should be grateful if they can deal with rent anywhere near commuting distance.

The stance from the gaming community on layoffs has overall been nothing short of disgusting.
can you teach us how spiderman 2 writing was miles better than spiderman with this miles bigger writing team?

you can clearly see the tweet, to which we are responding.

it is clearly misconception to what bloat is in this case and what actually isn't. i made myself clear multiple times on this matter and supported you multiple times times too.

in this case, adding 0 reports on writers crunch, plus, taking into account previously written games and books etc.. i am in conclusion that the writing team was bloated. unless you can share more real info.

while i still believe in this particular case, it isn't exclusive to other factors. like that Jimbo and Hulst fucked up royally and it costing people jobs, while they are getting paid millions.

it is really sad that some people invested massive time and effort to work there, even moved to the other country just to lose the job, just that suits get more money.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Sircaw

Cool hand luke

Veteran
14 Feb 2023
2,227
4,165
They need to cut Sweet Baby Inc's services. They're too expensive for what they provide* in my estimate[¹]

*What they provide is nothing
[¹]I estimate they charge some sort of fee
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zzero

Thirty7ven

Active member
30 Dec 2023
221
465
Well if you’ve seen TLOU2 Grounded doc then you know these studios aren’t really aware of what they are going to get themselves in when they enter production. It’s honestly crazy. Games have been around for quite a bit now, these are storied studios, and they still don’t have a grasp of what they are getting into?

I’ll say it again Respawn launched Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor within a span of 3 1/2 years. Jedi Survivor is a big game, with beautiful advanced visuals, incredible mo cap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nimrota

Gediminas

Boy...
Founder
21 Jun 2022
5,373
6,835
Obviously "writing" has different components but the fact that games like Elden Ring, or the Yakuza games which often have 2-3 writers, are successful is indicative that more is not necessarily better.
Last of Us was written by 1-2 people. i don't know what you tell you more..🤝
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nimrota

Nimrota

Veteran
11 Jul 2023
955
1,480
Well if you’ve seen TLOU2 Grounded doc then you know these studios aren’t really aware of what they are going to get themselves in when they enter production. It’s honestly crazy. Games have been around for quite a bit now, these are storied studios, and they still don’t have a grasp of what they are getting into?

I’ll say it again Respawn launched Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor within a span of 3 1/2 years. Jedi Survivor is a big game, with beautiful advanced visuals, incredible mo cap.
The fact that they scaled up from Fallen Order to Jedi Survivor in that period of time really is impressive. Sure, some poor performance issues and a little longer to smooth that out would have been good, but nonetheless it's impressive.
 

historia

Veteran
Icon Extra
29 Jun 2023
2,818
2,717
By the way. I know the problem is:

Sony is woke af. These mfs never sleep. They have HQ in 3 different continents. How could you sleep with that.

They need to eradicate all the wokes.... Make sure everyone be able to sleep again.

Look at @Satoru . He is woke af, he never sleep. That why he always got terrible opinions. Man's brain is as fried as his Macbook board, the fourth one he bought.
 

Danja1187

Veteran
10 Mar 2023
3,388
3,213
Spiderman 2 definitely is a weaker product overall. The writing definitely doesn't justify that bloat. Something definitely needs to change over at PlayStation... Structure is definitely needed again.
 

SLB1904

Actually born in 1904!
22 Jun 2022
2,045
2,334
Because Disney gets a massive chunk of the sale price in royalties AND because successful games like SM2 have to also carry the burden of failed games AND because there is a SM3 coming (and 3 X-Men games) and Insomniac can't let this happen again AND because the narrative of 2 isn't actually any better than 1's so why are there 20 additional people on the writing team that haven't helped anything? You could literally get an indie styled game like Dave the Diver or Ori out of those 20 salaries if you found the right people.
Disney doesn't get massive chunk of sales for sitting their asses. Disney gets paid according to the games performance. Like any royalty deal
 

Shmunter

Veteran
22 Jul 2022
2,232
2,665
Sure I don't particularly care that companies do lay offs because I believe it's a rational act. We already knew Sony's margins are terrible, reducing employee count fixes this to a degree. Doubly so when the people being laid off are less important workers, such as community managers or writers since the effect on the core product is negligible.

As for endless growth you're correct it doesn't exist inasmuch as exponentialism doesn't exist in a market, however many people forget that utilisation of resources due to technological change increases scope of the market, hence providing growth that didn't exist previously. Imagine saying "Endless growth doesn't exist" in 1800 because you're worried about scarcity and then a century later the then useless silicon is producing computer chips that cost more than the GDP of several nations in 1800. But this broader technological and historical nuance matters little in the face of anti-capitalist wa wa about companies not wanting to go under from high costs and low profits.

It's not a question of whether or not Insomniac is currently productive, it's a question of whether or not Insomniac can be made more productive to help SIE overall. And the answer is likely yes.
Those Sony profits encompass acquisitions. No idea why, to me they are a seperate expense.

If Xbox showed their books in the same fashion, it would be a bloodbath.
 

Zzero

Major Tom
9 Jan 2023
3,147
1,922
Disney doesn't get massive chunk of sales for sitting their asses. Disney gets paid according to the games performance. Like any royalty deal
They got a huge (comparatively) amount of the gross for every Spiderman PS4 bundle that was sold, like shockingly so. It was one of the things that came out in the leak. Bearing in mind that Sony counts those bundles towards total game sales when discussing Spidey and his 20 million units.