[Nadeshot] “ For some reason, everybody in the gaming community wants games to fail"

Kokoloko

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It all comes back to being astute in choosing the right talent and project. A major key to Sony’s success that seems to be questionable at present. Proof in point being the reception, something a billion avg gamers could have seen coming a mile away, but Sony didn’t? Typical throw shit at the fan technique. Lest we forget Jay Raymond’s upcoming game.

Ignoring Jay Raymonds game ( yeah it doesnt look great but I havent played it), they havent really missed.
Destruction All Stars yes. In my opinion Days Gone, Sackboy adventures but otherwise Spiderman 2 just got Insomniac its first 90+ metacritic in a long time.
GOT, Horizon 2, Returnal, GOW Ragnarok were all quality. House Marque and Bluepoint were great purchases.

The talent is there at Firewalk.
Not looking the way you like or not being the genre you don't like is fair. But for a genre you don't like, it plays very well and the studio can just make another FPS game later.
Compared to alot of more expensive studios, they found the right talent mostly (maybe not character designs lol). It plays great in gunplay and controls, and presentation is PS quality

Im more pissed off at Sony not supporting Ready at Dawn, Japan Studios, or Evolution.
But I support PS buying more studios and trying new stuff. They have enough money to do it, so budget isnt the excuse.
I think they should of bought FromSoft and Remedy, both studios suit there catologue of games but Id still want them to buy more and try other genres.

Like Valve new game discovered yesterday, new mix of genres. Really not a fan of those types of games, but Id like Sony to try it
 
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ethomaz

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Like Valve new game discovered yesterday, new mix of genres. Really not a fan of those types of games, but Id like Sony to try it
And that comes to perception here...

Valve doing a mix 6v6 Moba Hero Shooter = Amazing
Sony doing a 5v5 Hero Shooter = Fail

Ohhh and it was a fail right when Sony just announced the logo... no gameplay, characters, anything except the logo was already a Fail.

And I have to read users here using.... PS fans as if they know what is to be a PS fan or what make gamers be fans of PlayStation.
 

Kokoloko

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And that comes to perception here...

Valve doing a mix 6v6 Moba Hero Shooter = Amazing
Sony doing a 5v5 Hero Shooter = Fail

Ohhh and it was a fail right when Sony just announced the logo... no gameplay, characters, anything except the logo was already a Fail.

I think Ive only ever tried that Moba EA made? Id still try it if Sony made one.

I just want Sony to cover as many genres as they can, slowly slowly. While giving us those unique smaller games and big AAA games they give are best known for now
 
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ToTTenTranz

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This made me think of icon-era.




Here are my problems with that guy's statements:

1 - He says people complain about not having games. No one, and I mean absolutely no one is complaining about lack of games nowadays.

2 - He concludes that failing games lead to studio closures, so gamers should want all games to succeed. This is the typical "eat what you're given with a happy face even if it's shit" mentality that seems to have started with the Star Wars sequels but I just can't abide by.
Gamers don't want studios to fail. Gamers want the games they like to succeed, and the games they don't like to fail so that publishers finance the former over the latter. That's why Stellar Blade was a sales success and Suicide Squad was, and still is a sales failure.
 

Kokoloko

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I highly disagree. All I hear about is how sony doesn’t have any games this year lol
I think its more complaints that we havent got a game from the bigger studios in (certain) years. Fans expect a TLOU, Uncharted, GOW, Horizon, GOT every year.
Which is amplified when people are not seeing announcements for those games either. When they are use to seeing games a few years out.

PS5: Im just talking AAA blockbuster games from likes of ND, SM, Sucker Punch, Insomniac etc. You know the category.

2020- Lots from GOT, TLOU2, Demons Souls, Spiderman Miles Morales. On top of the 3rd party exclusives and “2nd party” etc plus titles like Dreams and Sackboy.

2021 - There was Returnal and Ratchet/Clank but no big TLOU, GOW, GOT, Infamous, Horizon, Spiderman type game etc. I love Returnal btw
2022 - Had loads but were also cross platform and TLOU Remake.
2023 - Spiderman 2. The big AAA PS5 exclusive
2024 - Astrobot is amazing but its not the same as the games I mentioned above. More importantly, not Story driven AAA from the studios above

Im not comparing it to PS4 because that had a mixed start till 2016. Just saying for its own years without those type of titles from those studios.
Basically its ND games, AAA game from Insomniac like Spiderman/Wolverine/Resistence, Sucker Punch game, Santa Monica game. Horizon/Killzone from Guerilla. Nothing else counts lol. Also something like Days Gone from Bend even though Im not a fan. Big story driven, singleplayer blockbusters.


I really think that also not seeing a trailer or announcements from some of these studios like ND Sucker Punch etc, for those big blockbuster games they expect to see, creates the complains and then unnecessary FUD
 

ToTTenTranz

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I highly disagree. All I hear about is how sony doesn’t have any games this year lol
2 different things.
I could say Sony had few releases this year (which I don't BTW, but let's pretend I do for argument's sake), but at the same time I can also have a huge backlog of recent and older games to play.
I could probably stand like 5 years with no new game releases before complaining about not having games to play.

It's also the phenomenon we've been witnessing on playercount charts. Disillusioned about recent releases and IPs trying their luck on the GAAS hypetrain, we're seeing a massive increase of gamers choosing to just play older games that were in their backlog.
 
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Remember_Spinal

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I think its more complaints that we havent got a game from the bigger studios in (certain) years. Fans expect a TLOU, Uncharted, GOW, Horizon, GOT every year.
Which is amplified when people are not seeing announcements for those games either. When they are use to seeing games a few years out.

PS5: Im just talking AAA blockbuster games from likes of ND, SM, Sucker Punch, Insomniac etc. You know the category.

2020- Lots from GOT, TLOU2, Demons Souls, Spiderman Miles Morales. On top of the 3rd party exclusives and “2nd party” etc plus titles like Dreams and Sackboy.

2021 - There was Returnal and Ratchet/Clank but no big TLOU, GOW, GOT, Infamous, Horizon, Spiderman type game etc. I love Returnal btw
2022 - Had loads but were also cross platform and TLOU Remake.
2023 - Spiderman 2. The big AAA PS5 exclusive
2024 - Astrobot is amazing but its not the same as the games I mentioned above. More importantly, not Story driven AAA from the studios above

Im not comparing it to PS4 because that had a mixed start till 2016. Just saying for its own years without those type of titles from those studios.
I really think that also not seeing a trailer or announcements from some of these studios like ND Sucker Punch etc, for those big blockbuster games they expect to see, creates the complains and then unnecessary FUD

In the end it’s goofy because it wasn’t until the ps4 generation that those expectations have even become a thing. PS3 gen didn’t promise big AAA first party games and first party only and pre-ps3? That just wasn’t even a thing.

Sony always relied on 3rd party, MGS4 was the first major game for the ps3 and Final Fantasy games carried the ps2 and ps1 for big exclusive titles. Now all of a sudden games like rebirth and FFXVI don’t matter.

The real problem is a lot of people here and other places simply just want a list wars. They don’t care if great exclusive content is releasing if they can’t use it as ammo.

Can’t use helldivers cause sony doesn’t own Arrowhead, can’t use stellar blade and ronin because “2nd party”, final fantasy is “3rd party” and so on…

If sony buy arrowhead tomorrow (just like they did with insomniac after spider-man or housemarque after returnal) it would change absolutely nothing for the end consumer. Again…list wars is all it is.
 

Kokoloko

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In the end it’s goofy because it wasn’t until the ps4 generation that those expectations have even become a thing. PS3 gen didn’t promise big AAA first party games and first party only and pre-ps3? That just wasn’t even a thing.

Sony always relied on 3rd party, MGS4 was the first major game for the ps3 and Final Fantasy games carried the ps2 and ps1 for big exclusive titles. Now all of a sudden games like rebirth and FFXVI don’t matter.
Maybe the expectation came from mid PS3 era. After Uncharted 2, every year had those type of games like Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, GOW3, TLOU, Infamous etc. People were complaining during the early years of PS4 too.

They defo did mostly rely on 3rd party till PS3.
I wonder if Sony would of become so 1st party focused if Xbox didnt have loads of PS centric games like Tekken, DMC, Final Fantasy 13 etc etc.
 
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Remember_Spinal

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Maybe the expectation came from mid PS3 era. After Uncharted 2, every year had those type of games like Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, GOW3, TLOU, Infamous etc. People were complaining during the early years of PS4 too.

They defo did mostly rely on 3rd party till PS3.
I wonder if Sony would of become so 1st party focused if Xbox didnt have loads of PS centric games like Tekken, DMC, Final Fantasy 13 etc etc.

It just proves me to these people aren’t really long time playstation fans, they just hopped on the anti-xbox bandwagon last generation
 

Kokoloko

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It just proves me to these people aren’t really long time playstation fans, they just hopped on the anti-xbox bandwagon last generation
I think if we got announcements for games coming in 2025 from the kind of studios like ND and Sucker Punch, there would be less worry and FUD etc. Not being shown plays a big part.

I think lots has changed with Playstation. As old PS fans, we use to play games like Crash, Ape Escape, GT, Spyro, along with 3rd part exclusives, then it was games like MGS2, GTA, FFX along with the likes of GOW, SOTC, more Jpn studio stuff Jak n Daxter etc. Then we adapted to what we kind of have now.
 
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Remember_Spinal

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I think if we got announcements for games coming in 2025 from the kind of studios like ND and Sucker Punch, there would be less worry and FUD etc. Not being shown plays a big part.

I think lots has changed with Playstation. As old PS fans, we use to play games like Crash, Ape Escape, GT, Spyro, along with 3rd part exclusives, then it was games like MGS2, GTA, FFX along with the likes of GOW, SOTC, more Jpn studio stuff Jak n Daxter etc. Then we adapted to what we kind of have now.

Imagine if ND and suckerpunch had announced games in 2021 and they still hadn’t released. We’d be in almost the exact same situation we’re in now. except there would no anticipation for new game announcements
 

Kokoloko

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Imagine if ND and suckerpunch had announced games in 2021 and they still hadn’t released. We’d be in almost the exact same situation we’re in now. except there would no anticipation for new game announcements
I think if they announced something in 2022-2023 it would of been fine. Thats 2 pretty big games in GOT2 and a ND title.

We were told about Spiderman 2 back in 2021 I believe? Came out in 2023. GOW and Horizon 2 in 2020 and they released 2022. All fine.

2/3/4 years wait is normal, TLOU2, Death Stranding, Uncharted 4, Bloodborne etc were all 2+ years, TLOU2 4 years. No1 really lost interested in those games taking 2/3 years in waiting. But if Sony wants to wait then its up to them.
I know the games are coming but for most people thats nothing exists till its shown
 
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And that comes to perception here...

Valve doing a mix 6v6 Moba Hero Shooter = Amazing
Sony doing a 5v5 Hero Shooter = Fail

Ohhh and it was a fail right when Sony just announced the logo... no gameplay, characters, anything except the logo was already a Fail.

And I have to read users here using.... PS fans as if they know what is to be a PS fan or what make gamers be fans of PlayStation.

Those perceptions don't just materialize out of thin air. Valve's practically known for shooters, FPS games in particular, and they've supported stuff like Team Fortress for ages, across generations.

Sony's mainly known for single-player and story-driven games, and Gran Turismo. Their foothold in the shooter market isn't strong compared to companies like Bungie, Valve, or ABK. That's just a fact. Games like SOCOM came and went in their last iteration in terms of support, and while stuff like Killzone have been visually amazing, they didn't really set standards or lead in terms of game mechanics or features that'd inspire a ton of modern FPS or hero shooters.

So it's a bit more nuanced than simply saying "Valve = amazing, Sony = fail" when it comes to making hero shooters and the such. I'd also argue Sony/SIE aren't maximizing or being fully effective in pushing/maintaining Helldivers 2, which became a viral success. So between that and the Bungie news, of course there'd be more trepidation with Sony in that space vs. a company like Valve.
 

Kokoloko

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Those perceptions don't just materialize out of thin air. Valve's practically known for shooters, FPS games in particular, and they've supported stuff like Team Fortress for ages, across generations.

Sony's mainly known for single-player and story-driven games, and Gran Turismo. Their foothold in the shooter market isn't strong compared to companies like Bungie, Valve, or ABK. That's just a fact. Games like SOCOM came and went in their last iteration in terms of support, and while stuff like Killzone have been visually amazing, they didn't really set standards or lead in terms of game mechanics or features that'd inspire a ton of modern FPS or hero shooters.

So it's a bit more nuanced than simply saying "Valve = amazing, Sony = fail" when it comes to making hero shooters and the such. I'd also argue Sony/SIE aren't maximizing or being fully effective in pushing/maintaining Helldivers 2, which became a viral success. So between that and the Bungie news, of course there'd be more trepidation with Sony in that space vs. a company like Valve.

Im not disagreeing. Im just butting in.

Sony in my opinion have got lots wrong in the last 4+ years. Some game development issues and cancellations, PC ports, changing their strategy to game announcements. Price increases for games like Ratchet &Clank/ Returnal, Cross gen.
Maybe certain purchases or lack of purchases, and getting rid of some studios, depending on what you side with etc etc.

And to be extra honest, before they’ve had issues with not supporting or strategising properly for new tech proper (Vita, VR, Move etc)

Saying all that, I think maybe we can give Sony some benefit of the doubt when it comes overall to them making new AAA games and shooters.
I know it sounds crazy because people think Concord is awful and want far away from anything like. I get that, even so I think overall the plans for their games have mostly gone well when released in the past. Mostly lol.

Theres been some “duds” for AAA metacritic (minus 80) like ROR, Days Gone and probably a couple more Im forgetting. And some mini “duds” like Destruction All Stars. There will probably be more too.

They’re not known for there 1st person shooters, but they’re known for there great games.
And trying their take at new genres. Like Returnal, Demons Souls/Bloodborne. Gameplay wise, they done great with Killzone 2/3 and Resistance trilogy. When they tried open world games, they made some of the best combat for that genre in GOT, Spiderman and Horizon.

When they tried there first over the shoulder shooter they did well with the Uncharted series. Or mixing it up like God of War 2018.

There lacking some FPS compared to the other platforms like Valve and MS. And thats probably one of the reasons they went and got Bungie to fill that void a bit, or had to buy them before MS did.

Even with all the Bungie financial issues, there last Destiny 2 DLC scored really well. They are still above average when it comes to quality gameplay for the genre. When it comes to FPS gameplay quality, Sony done well to choose Bungie. Theres only a handful in the same league.

Thats why I wouldnt doubt Playstation completely, whether its against the best studios or any other when it comes to making other genres or shooters. There will be “duds”, but they are still quality publisher with great games coming.

That doesnt mean I dont think they shouldn't triple down on what they have become good at, those story driven action adventures but I want them to make lots of shooters, Platformers, rpgs and try their take at different genres.
 
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Sloane_Ranger

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Do I want games with bad practices to fail? YES. And I want the people who suggested those ideas to loose their jobs. I rallied against MTX, but not enough people did to make a diffference (as an example) - so when a game does something I think is bad for the industry, or sets a bad precedent, I absolutely want it to fail.

Am I sad that there are not a lot of games this year (so far) that are of interest to me personally? YES - I love to game! But I don’t want the games I am not interested in, that others enjoy to fail - in fact quite the opposite.
 

laynelane

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Here are my problems with that guy's statements:

1 - He says people complain about not having games. No one, and I mean absolutely no one is complaining about lack of games nowadays.

2 - He concludes that failing games lead to studio closures, so gamers should want all games to succeed. This is the typical "eat what you're given with a happy face even if it's shit" mentality that seems to have started with the Star Wars sequels but I just can't abide by.
Gamers don't want studios to fail. Gamers want the games they like to succeed, and the games they don't like to fail so that publishers finance the former over the latter. That's why Stellar Blade was a sales success and Suicide Squad was, and still is a sales failure.

Thanks for summary of the video. The generalizing of "everybody" wanting games to fail made me lose interest in watching it. Agreed with your second point. Good games that resonate with the customer base do not fall prey to people wishing for them to fail.