Shawn layden interview When your costs for a game exceed $200 million, exclusivity is your Achilles’ heel.

flaccidsnake

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Yes but PlayStation is a closed platform....

PC can be the google of gaming.

PS is the Apple of gaming and PlayStation consoles should be viewed as the iPhone of gaming.

Simply put, without console, gaming would collapse at the AAA level and possibly at AA too.
Even Microsoft gaming will be dependent on PS console succeeding in the future to access gamers in many territories.
Not true at all. The rise of Playstation actually led to a decline in high end game development. What you're holding up as "AAA" today on PS5 is at least 1.5 generations behind what a 3070-based PC could do if it was the minimum requirement. Remember wolfenstein, doom, quake, crysis, etc. You've just accepted a permanent decline and are bragging about it as a win.

Playstation has never been a ruthlessly closed platform like Apple. PS2 and PS3 both had broad developer access. It used to be something cool about them. This is another decline we've just accepted as normal or good in your case.
 
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Say1nMan

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Jaybari and Persona are great with their WUPS podcast. They always stick to PS topics and the first Layden interview was great.
 

Thunderstorm__

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Not true at all. The rise of Playstation actually led to a decline in high end game development. What you're holding up as "AAA" today on PS5 is at least 1.5 generations behind what a 3070-based PC could do if it was the minimum requirement. Remember wolfenstein, doom, quake, crysis, etc. You've just accepted a permanent decline and are bragging about it as a win.

Playstation has never been a ruthlessly closed platform like Apple. PS2 and PS3 both had broad developer access. It used to be something cool about them. This is another decline we've just accepted as normal or good in your case.
Those PC developers should just stick to PC to develop these crazy visual games then? I mean, it was a thing in the past when Console games and PC games were vastly different. Nobody really stops these PC-centric devs from utilizing the best specs. Oh right, There is actually a stopper, the sales you kept babbling about.
 
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Thunderstorm__

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Based on the layoffs and problems with releasing new IP, this "expansion" turned out to be inefficient and unprofitable.

Other studios outside of Insomniac and Naughty Dog were not treated well, and their IPs did not receive as many resources, especially marketing money.

As a result, there are big problems with IP for PS5, and the situation is saved by games from partner studios that are due out in a couple of months.

Against this backdrop, there are layoffs and news of projects being canceled.
Yep, these expansions in hindsight seem pretty pathetic and amateurish. When entering 2021, I expected Sony to consistently deliver games due to all their new buyouts and studio expansions but now we are in 2024, and what a disappointment it has been so far. It is the way it is probably because Sony divided its focus on too many things, GAAS, and PC.
 

Yurinka

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Good interview. I think he explains very well many things, but when talking about that is the goal for first party games, in addition to highlight what the machine can do, I think the should also have mentioned that they play a role as selling point to make the console more appealing than other platforms.
 

Yurinka

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Based on the layoffs and problems with releasing new IP, this "expansion" turned out to be inefficient and unprofitable.

Other studios outside of Insomniac and Naughty Dog were not treated well, and their IPs did not receive as many resources, especially marketing money.

As a result, there are big problems with IP for PS5, and the situation is saved by games from partner studios that are due out in a couple of months.

Against this backdrop, there are layoffs and news of projects being canceled.
The layoffs come from them investing a shit ton of money on making games but not being profitable enough even if growing to record numbers in console as they achieved.

Because the console market isn't big enough to fund them.

PC ports of old games are very cheap and profitable.

So this is why they will focus more on them, because without extra revenue channels like PC they would need to scale down more the amount of games they make and the size of their teams.

Same goes with the movies, they'll keep making more. And when ready, they'll slowly expand to mobile, too.

The alternative is to cancel more games, make them smaller and worse, shut down more studios and fire more people.

Yep, these expansions in hindsight seem pretty pathetic and amateurish. When entering 2021, I expected Sony to consistently deliver games due to all their new buyouts and studio expansions but now we are in 2024, and what a disappointment it has been so far. It is the way it is probably because Sony divided its focus on too many things, GAAS, and PC.
Sony's focus continues being their console. And inside first party games, the SP ones: they are the majority of the games under development. And they are working in more games at the same time than ever before.

They are expanding to GaaS and PC, but with dedicate teams for them, their SP games teams continue doing SP games.

That GaaS and PC required an initial extra effort, that's all. But their profitability will highly help them in the long term. GaaS and PC (plus movies and in the future mobile) are mandatory if they want to continue making AAA SP games and to continue increasing the amount of games they have under development.

Every generation means bigger, better looking and more detailed and dense AAA games, which require more people and time to be made. Hiring more people reduces that time increase.

On top of that, having more people allows them to work in more games. Which is what they are doing. But AAA games take now around 5-9 years to be made. Meaning that if they started a new AAA game in 2021, it will be released around 2026-2030.

AAA games aren't made in 6 months. It doesn't mean they have problems, it just means your expectations weren't realistic.

Regarding IP, there aren't problems at all. Their big IPs like Gran Turismo, MLB, Horizon, Ratchet, TLOU, GoW or Spider-Man are performing great, even with record selling numbers. Even Helldivers 2 is killing it. And they are also releasing great new IPs, like the recent Returnal or the promising Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade, Concord or Marathon.

Plus there are many successful ones that with a new game would continue being super successful like Uncharted or Days Gone.
 
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Bryank75

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Not true at all. The rise of Playstation actually led to a decline in high end game development. What you're holding up as "AAA" today on PS5 is at least 1.5 generations behind what a 3070-based PC could do if it was the minimum requirement. Remember wolfenstein, doom, quake, crysis, etc. You've just accepted a permanent decline and are bragging about it as a win.

Playstation has never been a ruthlessly closed platform like Apple. PS2 and PS3 both had broad developer access. It used to be something cool about them. This is another decline we've just accepted as normal or good in your case.

That is the tech side but there is more to gaming than tech.

I am talking about having a consumer base big enough to support the development of these massive games.

What happened to Crytech for instance? ID.... now part of Microsoft.

Simple fact is that 3070's or 4080's are a tiny portion of the industry and PlayStation is the driver of what is made and to what level. Without PS, you'd have indies and some AA games and the rest would be FIFA and other trash... and they'd even be worse than they are now.
 

historia

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Majority of PC userbase have GPU 3060/4060 and lower. Which is have weaker rastirization performance that PS5, 3070 is what PS5 at rastirization wise, Ray-tracing is not worth the performance impact for marginal gain since lightings depends heavily on level designers any2ay.

@flaccidsnake what GPU you have. Prove that you have a least a 4070/3080 above before talking about holding back argument.
 

Systemshock2023

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Every generation means bigger, better looking and more detailed and dense AAA games, which require more people and time to be made. Hiring more people reduces that time increase.

On top of that, having more people allows them to work in more games. Which is what they are doing. But AAA games take now around 5-9 years to be made. Meaning that if they started a new AAA game in 2021, it will be released around 2026-2030.

I don't think this is healthy at all. I'd like the arms race to stop for a while, and this generation to be a long one. We are only now barely starting to see what next generation is all about.

Sony and MS could put together great looking games with 2070 super/2080 level GPUs and those 8/16 CPUS (6/12 reserved for gaming) Simple games that run at 60 fps and have great IQ go a long way.

We don't have to wait every 2 world cups for a game to be released. 7th gen hit the right spot lead time wise.

In a way, Nintendo has the right approach, but they are too stingy with HW and those games suffer as a result, this is why PC emulators of Nintendo consoles are so popular. Only with a Nintendo switch 3 will Nintendo gamers see the IQ and performance of the CEMU version of BOTW running on an RX 580 and your run of the mill ivy bridge CPU.
 
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Gediminas

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Not true at all. The rise of Playstation actually led to a decline in high end game development. What you're holding up as "AAA" today on PS5 is at least 1.5 generations behind what a 3070-based PC could do if it was the minimum requirement. Remember wolfenstein, doom, quake, crysis, etc. You've just accepted a permanent decline and are bragging about it as a win.

Playstation has never been a ruthlessly closed platform like Apple. PS2 and PS3 both had broad developer access. It used to be something cool about them. This is another decline we've just accepted as normal or good in your case.
Fuck me, this guy just can not make not idiotic comment just for a day. People's braincells dies reading his comments.
 

xollowsob

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Memba when games were made to be entertaining and not about making money?

I memba.

Strip these corporate silly Billies out of the industry and let it heal.
 

JAHGamer

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Not true at all. The rise of Playstation actually led to a decline in high end game development. What you're holding up as "AAA" today on PS5 is at least 1.5 generations behind what a 3070-based PC could do if it was the minimum requirement. Remember wolfenstein, doom, quake, crysis, etc. You've just accepted a permanent decline and are bragging about it as a win.

Playstation has never been a ruthlessly closed platform like Apple. PS2 and PS3 both had broad developer access. It used to be something cool about them. This is another decline we've just accepted as normal or good in your case.
I hope you're just trolling because this has to be one of your dumbest comments ever, and that's saying a lot 😂Yeah, you have to be trolling, no one is this dumb, right?
 

Gediminas

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I hope you're just trolling because this has to be one of your dumbest comments ever, and that's saying a lot 😂Yeah, you have to be trolling, no one is this dumb, right?
Fail Patrick Star GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants
 

Gods&Monsters

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So this is why they will focus more on them, because without extra revenue channels like PC they would need to scale down more the amount of games they make and the size of their teams.
How much do you think Insomniac made with the PC port of Ratchet? It didn't help them at all because they still fired a bunch of people and cancelled a game. Besides making the PS5 looking useless, Ratchet port brought nothing.

Same for Housemarque and Returnal. Maybe they bought a lunch for the employees and that's it.

They are not profitable at all so stop repeating yourself it's tiring. Don't bother bringing up the graph with the $200 million from Destiny again.
 

Yurinka

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How much do you think Insomniac made with the PC port of Ratchet? It didn't help them at all because they still fired a bunch of people and cancelled a game. Besides making the PS5 looking useless, Ratchet port brought nothing.

Same for Housemarque and Returnal. Maybe they bought a lunch for the employees and that's it.

They are not profitable at all so stop repeating yourself it's tiring. Don't bother bringing up the graph with the $200 million from Destiny again.
You have no idea what you are talking about.

Insomniac and Housemarque didn't make the ports of Ratchet or Returnal. Nixxes ported them. This is a fact.

Other than giving them he source code and I assume some very rare support from one or two people from time to time in case of doubts etc.

We saw the costs (around a couple millions per port) and their revenue for some games (which we can also estimate), showing them as profitable. We also see Sony posting in their fiscal reports hundreds of millions per year and a huge YoY growth. These are facts too.

The firings have absolutely nothing to do with ports, it's the opposite: the ports give them a lot of revenue and profits, reducing the need of firing people.
 
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Gediminas

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You have no idea what you are talking about.

Insomniac and Housemarque didn't make the ports of Ratchet or Returnal. Nixxes ported them. This is a fact.

Other than giving them he source code and I assume some very rare support from one or two people from time to time in case of doubts etc.

We saw the costs (around a couple millions per port) and their revenue for some games (which we can also estimate), showing them as profitable. We also see Sony posting in their fiscal reports hundreds of millions per year and a huge YoY growth. These are facts too.

The firings have absolutely nothing to do with ports, it's the opposite: the ports give them a lot of revenue and profits, reducing the need of firing people.
For sure it doesn't cost couple of millions per port. We have leaked documents it can cost 30M and more.

Let alone, pretending like those games appeared out of the thin air.
 

Gods&Monsters

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You have no idea what you are talking about.

Insomniac and Housemarque didn't make the ports of Ratchet or Returnal. Nixxes ported them. This is a fact.

Other than giving them he source code and I assume some very rare support from one or two people from time to time in case of doubts etc.

We saw the costs (around a couple millions per port) and their revenue for some games (which we can also estimate), showing them as profitable. We also see Sony posting in their fiscal reports hundreds of millions per year and a huge YoY growth. These are facts too.

The firings have absolutely nothing to do with ports, it's the opposite: the ports give them a lot of revenue and profits, reducing the need of firing people.
There's some profit sharing going back to the studio after they ask for a PC port. In this case, I'm sure there wasn't any profit so it was useless for Insomniac. They got zero from it and Sony lost a selling point for the PS5.
 
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Yurinka

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There's some profit sharing going back to the studio after they ask for a PC port. In this case, I'm sure there wasn't any profit so it was useless for Insomniac. They got zero from it and Sony lost a selling point for the PS5.
The port gets released in PC when no longer sells in PS and it's included in PS+. There's no selling point lost because almost nobody buys it anymore.

If costs 2M to be made and generates 80M to Sony it means it generated 78M in profit for that game. All Sony PC ports have been profitable. Profits are good. 78M of extra profit are good and better than nothing.

They use these profits to fund more games and make their games more profitable because the revenue from the console won't be enough for games costing over 300M, because only a few will sell like Spider-Man 2. PC ports help ensure their profitability. It's plain and simple.
 
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