If we would credit 50% of dev cost to PC port nothing bar HD2 would be profitable on that platform.
Shawn layden interview When your costs for a game exceed $200 million, exclusivity is your Achilles’ heel.
- Thread starter Puff
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Wait, sorry, which data debunks that Rift Apart was profitable on PS5 (within its first month)? I can't see first month sales or the budget so I'm not taking a side here, just curious about the data.
Here we have a leaked Insomniac forecast from June 2020 (pre-release of the game) where they mentioned the game had total costs of $81M. They estimated that the game was going to sell 2.2M on its lifetime, which as shown in the graph wouldn't be enough to make it profitable, they estimated a negative ROI of -10%.
They expected to make $73M total revenue with 2.2M. The budget was $81M, which doing basic maths means they had to sell over 2.44M units to be profitable.
Barely a month after release, Sony said it sold $1.1M until then. Meaning, in the first month they didn't sell even half of the units they needed to make it protitable.
Then I also posted this January 2022 sales data, also leaked from Insomniac, which says that until then it sold 2.34M and shipped 2.72M:
Which means that as of January 2022 (7 months after release) if you count its sales the game was still unprofitable, if you count its shipments instead, it would be profitable by then.
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Rift Apart was profitable within its first month, I made a thread on this back when the leaks first happened. Some of the pictures got lost though. I'll try to find and repost them
Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart WAS profitable
Sadly everyone is running with a slide that is strictly projections/estimates, and not actual data. Even I fell for it People will acknowledge those projections but ignore an actual slide where Insomniac says they're profitable The game had an 83M budget and 145m in net revenue as of February...
icon-era.com
Someone even made an article about my thread lol
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Made $64 Million In Profit
New info from the Insomniac leak has revealed that Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart did make a profit for Insomniac and wasn't a financial flop.
exputer.com
And this is a screenshot someone took on Twitter when the images were still embedded
And heres another screenshot showing that Rift Apart actually sold 4m units in its first 2 years. Before it went to PC, so yes it made a ton of profit before going to PC. @Yurinka is loud and wrong as always.
This was from a leaked slide a month after the game released
Media admitting they were wrong lol
Rift Apart was profitable within its first month, I made a thread on this back when the leaks first happened. Some of the pictures got lost though. I'll try to find and repost them
Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart WAS profitable
Sadly everyone is running with a slide that is strictly projections/estimates, and not actual data. Even I fell for it People will acknowledge those projections but ignore an actual slide where Insomniac says they're profitable The game had an 83M budget and 145m in net revenue as of February...
Someone even made an article about my thread lol
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Made $64 Million In Profit
New info from the Insomniac leak has revealed that Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart did make a profit for Insomniac and wasn't a financial flop.
And this is a screenshot someone took on Twitter when the images were still embedded
And heres another screenshot showing that Rift Apart actually sold 4m units in its first 2 years. Before it went to PC, so yes it made a ton of profit before going to PC. @Yurinka is loud and wrong as always.
This was from a leaked slide a month after the game released
Ratchet could be free pack-in with a Slim PS5. It is the best use of PS5 features and instant loading along with Astrobot. It's like playing Mario on N64. It's also family-friendly.
Sadly Sony destroyed the value so much people would not even redeem the code. Wipe your ass and throw away the paper.
They were in a hurry to destroy the franchise asap for barely 5 millions dollars in return
It's wild how stupid Sony is, that game showcases the best use of raytracing ever, without the need of a $1500 GPU. And now instead of it being a PS5 selling point, Nvidia uses it to advertise raytracing to sell their GPUsRatchet could be free pack-in with a Slim PS5. It is the best use of PS5 features and instant loading along with Astrobot. It's like playing Mario on N64. It's also family-friendly.
Sadly Sony destroyed the value so much people would not even redeem the code. Wipe your ass and throw away the paper.
They were in a hurry to destroy the franchise asap for barely 5 millions dollars in return
All of Sony's 1st party games have become marketing darlings for Nvidia...
Previously, Sony games were promoted by the PS4 (which did not have the best hardware at the time of its release, although it allowed for projects like The Witcher 3 and Ghost of Tsushima).It's wild how stupid Sony is, that game showcases the best use of raytracing ever, without the need of a $1500 GPU. And now instead of it being a PS5 selling point, Nvidia uses it to advertise raytracing to sell their GPUs
Now Sony games are promoting Nvidia GPUs, AMD CPUs, SteamDeck, and are massively used to advertise laptops on social media (I constantly see ads for "gaming" laptops using Sony games on Facebook)...
Rift Apart was profitable within its first month, I made a thread on this back when the leaks first happened. Some of the pictures got lost though. I'll try to find and repost them
Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart WAS profitable
Sadly everyone is running with a slide that is strictly projections/estimates, and not actual data. Even I fell for it People will acknowledge those projections but ignore an actual slide where Insomniac says they're profitable The game had an 83M budget and 145m in net revenue as of February...
Someone even made an article about my thread lol
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Made $64 Million In Profit
New info from the Insomniac leak has revealed that Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart did make a profit for Insomniac and wasn't a financial flop.
And this is a screenshot someone took on Twitter when the images were still embedded
And heres another screenshot showing that Rift Apart actually sold 4m units in its first 2 years. Before it went to PC, so yes it made a ton of profit before going to PC. @Yurinka is loud and wrong as always.
This was from a leaked slide a month after the game released
Media admitting they were wrong lol
Although that graph mistakenly lists Rift Apart as a PS4 game, we know the listing refers to Rift Apart because of the release date, so it's all good. Although the day is wrong (RA was June 11th), the month is accurate, plus the Steam version released in July and R&C PS4 released in April. One thing for the day to be off, but the month to be exactly the same as Rift Apart PS5.
I definitely remember the 4.4 million in 2 years number popping up shortly after the hack, and this is before the Steam version released. So yeah, Rift Apart was definitely profitable on PS5 and much more on PS5 than it has been on Steam.
The idea that Rift Apart was only profitable when it released on Steam is an incredibly dumb and flawed one.
Everyone recognizes the value and power of Sony 1st party, well except for.....Sony. Hiroki Totoki and Kenichiro Yoshida don't see these games as art, they just see them as products made in a sweatshop.
We also know its Rift Apart because of the 88 metacritic. Rift Apart on PC is a colossal flop, with a lot of people on Steam crying saying they wont play it unless the entire series is ported on Steam. The entire series isn't even on PS4 or PS5
If Rift Apart had been developed and release only for PC it wouldn't have been a massive loss. None of these single player AAA games would be viable without the PlayStation audience showing up on release.Everyone recognizes the value and power of Sony 1st party, well except for.....Sony. Hiroki Totoki and Kenichiro Yoshida don't see these games as art, they just see them as products made in a sweatshop.
We also know its Rift Apart because of the 88 metacritic. Rift Apart on PC is a colossal flop, with a lot of people on Steam crying saying they wont play it unless the entire series is ported on Steam. The entire series isn't even on PS4 or PS5
Sony doesn't get that their actions are ensuring that PlayStation won't be dominant in the future and for some reason they are obsesses with taking every single step that got Xbox to where it is now.
Nintendo and Valve guys are no fools and will undoubtedly see the opportunity and make moves to capture a big chunk of the current PlayStation audience.
In the same leak, it was revealed that more than 2.7 million copies of the game were shipped and the game had turned a profit with $145 million in net sales by February 2022. Further leaks have revealed that Rift Apart had sold over 3.97 million units by its second calendar year (June 2023).
Ratchet And Clank: Rift Apart Sold Almost 4 Million Units
New data from the recent ransomware attack on Insomniac reveals that Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart sold nearly 4 million copies.
exputer.com
RA cost in or around 80 million...so it made almost twice its budget in just a few short months on PS5.
Nah those ports bombed badly, Sony never spoke about their sales on PC and the Steam numbers were worryingly low. Also at the point a game comes to PC, you need to apportion the total cost of the game development between the two platforms...as it is now a multiplatform.
Saying all the costs are simply saddled on PlayStation 5's release provides a totally false ROI.
No other developer would put all the costs on one platform if it was released in multiple places.
Either single player PlayStation games have close to no appeal to the PC crowd or these games are being massively pirated. Both make PlayStation look bad.In the same leak, it was revealed that more than 2.7 million copies of the game were shipped and the game had turned a profit with $145 million in net sales by February 2022. Further leaks have revealed that Rift Apart had sold over 3.97 million units by its second calendar year (June 2023).
Ratchet And Clank: Rift Apart Sold Almost 4 Million Units
New data from the recent ransomware attack on Insomniac reveals that Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart sold nearly 4 million copies.
RA cost in or around 80 million...so it made almost twice its budget in just a few short months on PS5.
Nah those ports bombed badly, Sony never spoke about their sales on PC and the Steam numbers were worryingly low. Also at the point a game comes to PC, you need to apportion the total cost of the game development between the two platforms...as it is now a multiplatform.
Saying all the costs are simply saddled on PlayStation 5's release provides a totally false ROI.
No other developer would put all the costs on one platform if it was released in multiple places.
that is how it should be. some pretends like these games creates out of nothing on PC.
Rift Apart was profitable within its first month, I made a thread on this back when the leaks first happened. Some of the pictures got lost though. I'll try to find and repost them
Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart WAS profitable
Sadly everyone is running with a slide that is strictly projections/estimates, and not actual data. Even I fell for it People will acknowledge those projections but ignore an actual slide where Insomniac says they're profitable The game had an 83M budget and 145m in net revenue as of February...
Someone even made an article about my thread lol
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Made $64 Million In Profit
New info from the Insomniac leak has revealed that Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart did make a profit for Insomniac and wasn't a financial flop.
And this is a screenshot someone took on Twitter when the images were still embedded
In the same leak, it was revealed that more than 2.7 million copies of the game were shipped and the game had turned a profit with $145 million in net sales by February 2022. Further leaks have revea--led that Rift Apart had sold over 3.97 million units by its second calendar year (June 2023).
Ratchet And Clank: Rift Apart Sold Almost 4 Million Units
New data from the recent ransomware attack on Insomniac reveals that Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart sold nearly 4 million copies.
As you can see here in the 2020 document of the projection, from 2.2M they would took a "total revenue" of $73M. Basic maths say that by selling 2.34M they took around $77.65M (in January 2022, not a month later), still under the $81M needed for the break even.
Notice that the "net sales" ($145M) of the January 2022 document aren't the same than the "total revenue" (which would be $77.65M if looking to sold-trough, or $90.25M if looking to sell-in).
There must be internal costs in the middle as could be the marketing and COGS ones you can see here for Spider-Man:
Also, when compared against other leaked Ratchet titles, notice how unproportional Rift Apart would be in the comparision between sales and "revenue" if we'd wrongly use these "net sales" as revenue:
It's wrong, Rift Apart having 2.72M "units sales" (2.34M units sold to consmers, the 2.72M were shipped) didn't get $145M as revenue for the game (were net sales instead).
Notice in this blue image that R&C ToD with 2.5M has around $90M instead. Which has a lifetime units vs total revenue proportion that matches instead way more the numbers from the P&L and ROI estimates document from 2020.
As I remember these numbers weren't sales, but instead estimates from a document that was talking about the impact of including a Sony game on PS+, where they shown the example of HFW as a test of putting it there early, and made different related projections.And heres another screenshot showing that Rift Apart actually sold 4m units in its first 2 years. Before it went to PC, so yes it made a ton of profit before going to PC. @Yurinka is loud and wrong as always.
One different to this one, but can't find it complete now, only found now the following two pages.
The people misunderstood the slides taking them as sales were they were projections. As can be seen covering 2 years of HFW, until Feb 2024. But it was leaked in December 2023 and the document was from early 2023. And well, the document itself talking about projections.
Also, notice it says 2.71M for Rift Apart year 1 (June 2021-June 2022), which doesn't match very well with the document which mentions 2.72M shipped and 2.34M sold until January 2022 if means shipped instead of sold. But if means sold sounds pretty realistic, I assume sold around that.
Maybe wasn't legit because Sony said it sold 1.1M on its first mont and Insomniac said in their internal document that selling 2.2M wasn't enough to become profitable.This was from a leaked slide a month after the game released
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As you can see here in the document of the projection, from 2.2M they would took a "total revenue" of $73M. Basic maths say that by selling 2.34M they took around $77.65M (in January 2022, not a month later), still under the $81M needed for the break even.
Notice that the "net sales" ($145M) of the January 2022 document aren't the same than the "total revenue" (which would be $77.65M if looking to sold-trough, or $90.25M if looking to sell-in). There must be internal costs in the middle as could be the marketing and COGS ones you can see here for Spider-Man:
Also, when compared against other leaked Ratchet titles, notice how unproportional Rift Apart would be in the comparision between sales and "revenue" if we'd wrongly use these "net sales" as revenue:
It's wrong, Rift Apart having 2.72M "units sales" (2.34M units sold to consmers, the 2.72M were shipped) didn't get $145M as revenue for the game (were net sales instead).
Notice in this blue image that R&C ToD with 2.5M has around $90M instead. Which has a lifetime units vs total revenue proportion that matches instead way more the numbers from the P&L and ROI estimates document from 2020.
As I remember these numbers weren't sales, but instead estimates from a document that was talking about the impact of including a Sony game on PS+, where they shown the example of HFW as a test of putting it there early, and made different related projections.
One different to this one, but can't find it complete now, only found now the following two pages. As I remember, the document was made shortly after February 2023, when HFW was put on PS Plus.
The people misunderstood the slides taking them as sales were they were projections. As can be seen covering 2 years of HFW, until Feb 2024. But it was leaked in December 2023 and the document
Maybe wasn't legit because Sony said it sold 1.1M on its first mont and Insomniac said in their internal document that selling 2.2M wasn't enough to become profitable.
idk why I even bother
As you can see here in the 2020 document of the projection, from 2.2M they would took a "total revenue" of $73M. Basic maths say that by selling 2.34M they took around $77.65M (in January 2022, not a month later), still under the $81M needed for the break even.
Notice that the "net sales" ($145M) of the January 2022 document aren't the same than the "total revenue" (which would be $77.65M if looking to sold-trough, or $90.25M if looking to sell-in).
There must be internal costs in the middle as could be the marketing and COGS ones you can see here for Spider-Man:
Also, when compared against other leaked Ratchet titles, notice how unproportional Rift Apart would be in the comparision between sales and "revenue" if we'd wrongly use these "net sales" as revenue:
It's wrong, Rift Apart having 2.72M "units sales" (2.34M units sold to consmers, the 2.72M were shipped) didn't get $145M as revenue for the game (were net sales instead).
Notice in this blue image that R&C ToD with 2.5M has around $90M instead. Which has a lifetime units vs total revenue proportion that matches instead way more the numbers from the P&L and ROI estimates document from 2020.
As I remember these numbers weren't sales, but instead estimates from a document that was talking about the impact of including a Sony game on PS+, where they shown the example of HFW as a test of putting it there early, and made different related projections.
One different to this one, but can't find it complete now, only found now the following two pages.
The people misunderstood the slides taking them as sales were they were projections. As can be seen covering 2 years of HFW, until Feb 2024. But it was leaked in December 2023 and the document was from early 2023. And well, the document itself talking about projections.
Also, notice it says 2.71M for Rift Apart year 1 (June 2021-June 2022), which doesn't match very well with the document which mentions 2.72M shipped and 2.34M sold until January 2022 if means shipped instead of sold. But if means sold sounds pretty realistic, I assume sold around that.
Maybe wasn't legit because Sony said it sold 1.1M on its first mont and Insomniac said in their internal document that selling 2.2M wasn't enough to become profitable.
R&C PS4 was a budget title...cost 30-40 euro at release so the figures do actually make sense when you consider that RA was 80 euro or 70 dollars.
Things changed. Layden didn't have to contend with rising hardware production costs. For him PC was a low stakes means to grow the PS fanbase. Today it's about using PC to *grow the first party*.