Sony - Quarter 3 Financial Results 2022

KiryuRealty

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Where it’s at.
I'd be much happier with your approach than what they seem to be doing now.

Caution is the main thing, these things need to be done really slowly to see the effect and I think they accelerated way too fast recently. The pay-off? Not so great. The downsides? We really cannot say how bad the downsides can be until the end of a generation when we have the total sales figures.
The AAA games market on PC isn’t big enough to worry about it much.

Most of the sales will be at discounts, so there’s no economic sense in ever going day and date with PS5 releases.

As for the Naughty Dog comments about loading priority, etc, DirectStorage is out now and that can be a requirement for everything going forward so as not to handcuff PS5 development. Ironically, that will also serve to decrease the potential market on PC, so the whole thing will likely just fizzle out to one or two games a year, years after the PlayStation releases, handled by Nixxes or other port studios.

It’s a nothingburger.
 
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Bryank75

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The AAA games market on PC isn’t big enough to worry about it much.

Most of the sales will be at discounts, so there’s no economic sense in ever going day and date with PS5 releases.

As for the Naughty Dog comments about loading priority, etc, DirectStorage is out now and that can be a requirement for everything going forward so as not to handcuff PS5 development. Ironically, that will also serve to decrease the potential market on PC, so the whole thing will likely just fizzle out to one or two games a year, years after the PlayStation releases, handled by Nixxes or other port studios.

It’s a nothingburger.

But why even bother then? I just don't get it.
 

KiryuRealty

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Where it’s at.
But why even bother then? I just don't get it.
For making the most of any online-only games they release. Things like Drawn to Death would likely have done better if they weren’t console-only.

Also as a hedge against possible drop off in console sales and as an experiment to see how much money they can make from it.
 
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adamsapple

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Nixxess doing the port.
You will always be late on schedule… so day 1 is only possible if the original game devs wait the port be done to release it and I don’t see any Sony Studio doing that.

Development is always done on dev kits, which are generally PC environments.

Also, we have seen plenty of games release where one version is handled by one studio and another by a different one (eg the Tomb Raider reboot on PS3 was done by Nixxess and the 360 version was done by Crystal Dynamics and they both released at the same time).

Not saying that Nixxess's acquisition 100% guarantees day and date releases, but it is a lot more likely now than it was 2 years ago. And I believe before this PS5 gen is over, we will see at least one or more of big Sony games launching day and date on PC with PS5.
 
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Banana

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I've seen many in the last year just go straight to Steam, the middle step of making a PC launcher is irrelevant and whether PS leadership or people in general want to ignore it or act like it isn't a threat...the fact is that they are already losing hardcore PS fans.

There are tweets of some prominent PS users saying they are making their main platform PC from now on due to lower launch prices for multiplats and obviously more control over specs and how the power is used. They say they will keep a PS for exclusives only.

It's a terrible strategy from PS leadership and the issue is that, it doesn't show the damage it has done until the end of the generation, only then can you see how you have lowered the roof of console sales and pushed longtime users away to Steam.

I don't understand how people cannot see this or if they just refuse to see it because they think they benefit in some way..... but it's frustrating that people can appear to be so blind to it.

PlayStations real competition is Steam and PC..... and they have thousands of streamers on their side pushing people to buy PC's. Sony need to be careful cause their success is 100% tied to hardware sales...whether they like it or not.
Yeah, that's what I did lol. Steam is pretty awesome ngl. But what I'm talking about is it being a gateway for PS users to come to PC.

That being said, I didn't do it because of Sony exclusives. I'm honestly not a fan of Sonys exclusives. I don't think it's a real threat to sony's business model as casuals are where the money is at, and most casuals aren't going to build their own PC. However Steam Deck is easily accessible...
 

ksdixon

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You guys are heavily overselling the potential of single player games on steam.

We just recently discovered that the real active user base of steam is like 13 million at best.

Most of that is ancient hardware in third world nations. This heavily influences why games like CSGO and PUBG tear it up during early morning international hours.

There aren’t many rigs capable of next gen. Master race superiority is just what a small minority tell themselves. It’s to justify the thousands they pay to fuss around with drivers and still have a game run like shit.

There are outliers like Bethesda rpgs, Elden Ring and Monster Hunter. These games have online components or are staple pc games to begin with.

Piracy is such a massive rampant issue on pc. Single player games get pirated en masse.

Because of this issue, Sony will most likely always be late to port single player games to steam. There’s not much to be made. They have to take the plunge first on PlayStation to mitigate the risk. If it does well enough there then you’ll see a pc ports. If it flops on PlayStation? Probably not.

And also wait for pc hardware to catch up for most users.
Unless Sony are returning to the PC/gaming laptop space with PS-PC's, something like a TurboGFX sister to MegaDrive, they should instead focus on portable PS ecosystem via PSP with tweaked same OS and game library. Then everything still feeds back into PS ecosystem.
 

Banana

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Unless Sony are returning to the PC/gaming laptop space with PS-PC's, something like a TurboGFX sister to MegaDrive, they should instead focus on portable PS ecosystem via PSP with tweaked same OS and game library. Then everything still feeds back into PS ecosystem.
Why would you do that with the Steam Deck available though? Sony abandoned their last handheld.
 
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Bryank75

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Unless Sony are returning to the PC/gaming laptop space with PS-PC's, something like a TurboGFX sister to MegaDrive, they should instead focus on portable PS ecosystem via PSP with tweaked same OS and game library. Then everything still feeds back into PS ecosystem.

They have a massive backcatalog that everyone wants to be able to play and would work easily on a portable system... some already work on the vita and cant work or have not been made available natively on PS5, like Sly Cooper collection.

It makes infinite sense, grows the ecosystem and gives a portable option instead of people going to Nintendo or Steam for that....

It also gives countries like Japan that prefer mobile gaming a playstation version.

It is so obvious but the instead give momentum to other companies.
 

ksdixon

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Why would you do that with the Steam Deck available though? Sony abandoned their last handheld.
Companion device for portability rather than a walled game library. Valves success with Steam Deck or Nintendo's Switch should have been Sony's to kick over that rock instead of getting sidetracked for 10 years.
 

anonpuffs

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I don't think we should take any lessons from Steamdeck... thing has barely sold more than 1 million units, maybe 2 million after these holidays. The main success of steamdeck has been getting games to be finally well-supported on Linux, which means Microsoft's monopoly on PC gaming has its first serious challenger since DOS.
 

Banana

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Companion device for portability rather than a walled game library. Valves success with Steam Deck or Nintendo's Switch should have been Sony's to kick over that rock instead of getting sidetracked for 10 years.
That openness is actually a marketing point for Valve though.

openness.jpg


openness2.jpg
 

ethomaz

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Development is always done on dev kits, which are generally PC environments.

Also, we have seen plenty of games release where one version is handled by one studio and another by a different one (eg the Tomb Raider reboot on PS3 was done by Nixxess and the 360 version was done by Crystal Dynamics and they both released at the same time).

Not saying that Nixxess's acquisition 100% guarantees day and date releases, but it is a lot more likely now than it was 2 years ago. And I believe before this PS5 gen is over, we will see at least one or more of big Sony games launching day and date on PC with PS5.
DevKits are the own console... only early DevKits are PC environments because the hardware is not finished / taped out yet... after the hardware is finalized all DevKits are made with the same console hardware with the Tools used by the platform for development.
PC is indeed used for several tasks but these are normal PC station and not console DevKits.

Unless the publisher/developer keep holding the main version until the port got done the port branch is done always steps behind compared with the main branch... that is why games that used that way or works in past ended having a least a month of difference.

I don't believe Sony will flex the around 2 years after original release rule... it can have exceptions but most games will still release with around 2 years.
For example I don't expect Ragnarok to launch on PC before 2024.

Again except for exceptions (like some Live Service game) I don't think PC and PS5 ever having day and date releases at same time.
That is just a PC and Xbox gamer wish dream and not Sony's strategy plans.
 
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Yurinka

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This is part of what I was trying to convey to Yurinka; I probably don't have an issue with ports to PC as you do, individually speaking, but if Sony establish a cadence, a pattern where the ports to PC are a short time frame after console, how many of the power users who also spend a ton on 3P games & sub services decide to go to Steam for most of their gaming needs? And what could the financial impact of that look like.
As of now, PS5 sales are skyrocketing after solving the chips shortage and will outsell launch aligned PS4.

And a 30% of their PS5 users are new, didn't have a PS4. Meaning that like in every generation they may have new users and may lose other ones, but now in total they are growing with a big flow of new users.

These users interested on these type of game could come from Xbox or PC, but according to MS Xbox is getting better numbers than in the previous generation, meaning that most of the new PS5 users come from PC.

Maybe they are moving to console because the recent PC GPU price are too fucking expensive and the games don't take advantage of their horsepower. Or because they had a tast of Sony's exclusives and want to play ALL the other ones and not only the few ones ported late.

I suppose; the idea of potentially just sending a game out to bomb if you know releasing it at a certain time period or in a certain congested schedule is weird to me, even if you can simply write off the loss as an expense or what-have-you.

FWIW I think Sackboy was ultimately profitable even if it underperformed sales-wise; the budget isn't huge and it didn't have much marketing.
I don't think they sent it to die, they only wanted to test stuff and that data they may get from it may be useful for them beyond the profits it may produce. Not only with launch numbers, but also in future sales, discounts or price cuts and also combined with other games for bundles or adding variety to their PC lineup.

If they're a live-service type of game, like GTA Online, that's where the audiences seem to be at.
They know it, and this is why around a third of their projects are GaaS. And this GaaS or PC ports effort is made on top of their existing tradional projects, without decreasing their input but instead increasing it.

It is something like MS's talk in the past, but I hope these companies realize that when it comes to mobile & even PC, they simply have a different taste in games, games that don't necessarily translate much to console gaming audiences.

I don't think simply porting 1P games with clear homes on console to PC & mobile is going to work out;
Seeing their Wipeout and Sackboy games for mobile they aren't simply porting them. Sure, they'll end having the PS+ cloud gaming streaming in mobile and maybe some game will be ported directly but seems that their mobile games seems are going to be in most cases game designed specifically as separate games for mobile.

Regarding PC, big SP AAA games are working great but very likely their new take on GaaS MP titles will work better both in console and PC. Maybe even a few of these GaaS MP titles may be more PC oriented, like MMORPG for Asian market typical from PC: the rumored Horizon title from that Korean company sounded like that.

It's why if Sony prioritize the live-service GaaS titles for Day 1 on PC,
Sony prioritizes and will continue prioritizing PS, which is by far their main market. And inside their 1st party games their priority aren't GaaS, are the SP AAA games instead.

Some of their GaaS will be ported to PC, not all. And some of them will be released on PC (like the Bungie ones and potentially some day MLB) and others not (like Dreams, PS Destruction All Star, GT7 or -until now- MLB).

I don't know if single-player story-driven games necessarily do big numbers on Steam regularly. Just looked up Plague Tale: Requiem numbers (which ones were freely available) and gross revenue is $8.8 million. At $50 a copy, that's 176,000 copies since release. Even if total copies is more, the bigger point is the actual revenue, it would seem rather small for a game of its type on a platform with 130 million users if the genre of game itself were pretty big there.
Plague of Tale is a small game compared to the big Sony AAA games, which are selling over 15-20M with a single console plus at least a handful million each on PC.

They're gearing up for TLOU Part 1, I guess we'll see how that performs. I would have expected Sackboy to perform a big higher but that was probably due to timing, and we'll see how Returnal does. I think for the kind of game Returnal is, there is a pretty sizable Steam audience that will check it out and pick it up, all things considered.
Returnal and Sackboy are smaller niche games compared to GoW or TLOU. Compared to PS, Returnal fits better with the Steam audience, while Sackboy fits worse than in PS.

Also, Sackboy was released in a too busy period of the year, while Returnal will be released on a period of the year with way lower competition.

Returnal was released when PS5 had a tiny userbase, and Steam has an insanely huge audience.

So Returnal should perform in PC way better than in PS and way better than Sackboy.

TLOU is a too old game like Uncharted 4, but got a more extensive update with the remake and now with the tv show bump I'd bet it will sell very well in PC as seen with Days Gone, Horizon, GoW or Spider-Man. Because also like them and unlike Uncharted 4, TLOU is the start of the story and with Uncharted they did a dumb move starting in PC with the last episode instead of with the first one.