Sony, Sony, Soony

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vdopey

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12 Jul 2022
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So I did a thread about Microsoft and why I wouldn't buy an Xbox, so I do currently have a PS5, but I think it only fair to go into Sony and Playstation.
I should state first and foremost I do like Sony Products, generally speaking I think they go after engineering excellence.

Customer Service
They have and still do absolutely suck at this. PSN should offer refunds as standard, they can release time limited trials - they can keep track of time played on any game - the digital store should offer a no quibble refund policy. They really need to rethink how they handle customer service. Sure there will be a few that will try and abuse the system, but really you want your customers to feel like first class citizens for buying into your eco-system.

It should be fairly trivial for them to implement a solid refund service, if they believe in their products then this should be a no-brainer to implement. Give customers the ability to cancel pre-orders and to refund a game which is just bad within 48 hours or 2 - 3 hours game play.

I think it must be a Japanese cultural thing, but I think Sony as a whole underestimates how important customer service is. I personally will pay more for a product to buy from a company I know has excellent customer service, its the peace of mind you get with a product. The reason Amazon has been so successful is exactly because of customer service. Apple used to have amazing customer service, less so now (once upon a time my sister took back an ipod 3 years past warranty and they replaced it free of charge for her - I mean stuff like this is what keeps people buying and trusting products from a company)


Cost of Games
I am sorry $70, £70, 70 euros however you cut it, its just too much. I actually live in the UK, in the ps4 gen I think I paid about £40.
I still do not understand why a digital game costs more than a physical game. The digital store fronts artificially inflate the game prices with very very little overheard - the only cost for the game is the cost of storing it and transmitting it (customer downloading) both of which are negligible compared to printing & shipping of physical games. Digital store fronts should always be cheaper not more expensive than physical store fronts. The excuse about cost of game development increasing - I just do not buy. It is greedy and short sighted. I have to say this generation I am only buying games when they go on sale - I bought 2 or 3 (returnal, Spiderman MM) on release (even then I used sites which allowed me to buy gift cards I think I got a £100 gift card for £80 on shopto and another £50 for £40) - I refused to buy more and while I think Returnal is / has been my favourite game it was not worth £70 I love House Marque games. Artificially inflating all games costs to £70 just means customers will have to be more discerning with what they buy. I am not poor by any means my income is decent, but I don't just throw money away, for that reason I am reticent to buy any games at release I don't think this gen I will buy any other games at 70.

Marketing
They really suck at this, their xperia phone division had this "wow of now" marketing scheme which was just awful. They tend to be way ahead of the curve when it comes to actually producing products. I mean look at the Sony Viao Z ultrabook:
. Macbook Air was essentially a copy of what Sony was doing. They really do strive for engineering excellence, but are awful at selling their products. The only good marketing campaign that I can remember was the ps3 Kevin Butler ads, most of the initial ps3 adverts were just whacky and awful.

Playstation Games on PC
Being a platform holder is far more beneficial and valuable than just being a publisher. Publishers are currently being bought out by platform holders. Platform holders take a 30% cut on everything sold through their platform. Taking your most valuable component (the games) and acting like a publisher for another Massive platform holder to take a big cut - I really struggle to see the financial benefit here. If this ends up in the long term devaluing your platform then it is a massive misstep. Ultimately the knock on effects are not going to be seen now, but they will be seen by the next generation. Also why port to directX, they should be porting their engines and games to Vulkan if this is the route they wish to go down an open spec api which I think Sony should be embracing on all of its platforms, being tied down to an api completely owned and controlled by your competitor makes absolutely no sense. This is something they really need to think through.

Now this is just me speaking, but I think Sony could have been as big as Apple is now. They ventured into the media (Music and Films) but not into software, they have built a few pieces of software I believe they have some movie editing software some other bits and pieces, essentially with a solid software engineering team they could have begun to tie in all of their various and diverse systems into an ever evolving eco system like Apple. Their tv division is now using Android TV / Google Tv (which I really don't like) They had this cross media bar interface running on Linux before which was so fast and smooth instead they dumped it for the ever spying, ever in your face, really slow and clunky android tv. Their phones run Android, The playstation runs a custom version of FreeBSD, their laptops ran windows etc. Personally I think they should have taken something like Linux and started developing their own ui on top of it and then used this as the core to build everything else on, but built open standards something that would allow other manufacturers to also interoperate with great support and marketing this would be killer, it would be much like how Apple took *BSD / Mach Kernel and built their own ui on top - All apple products use this core (Unix & Linux are extremely flexible it can run on practically anything - Samsung uses Linux on their fridges, on their tvs, on their Washing Machines, they do use Android on their phones but everything else is fully under their control (They all run a version of tizen - why has Sony not done this ?? )).

This would all seem counter to a lot of my actual beliefs about open standards and open source, however I believe the 2 can co-exist. Many massive companies have already seen that co-operating and building open source cross platform standards actually lends itself to building better products it removes the entire engineering efforts from your own shoulders and allows those that are technically competent to jump in and build out that standard and it allows other companies to also contribute which ends up building a better product. I think Sony should still go down this route, I think being completely dependant on a closed source vendor for any component is a terrible idea. If they truly want to lead the future wave then embracing open standards, opening up specs to things like self repair, will benefit them.

One final thing to demonstrate this they developed LDAC which is a compression / decompression algorithm over bluetooth but they haven't even implemented this on playstation and they have kept it closed off so it only works on Sony products. Why doesn't my Sony XM4 headphones not just work seamlessly with my playstation ? They miss so many opportunities - make it open spec to get kudos for the work put in to producing it or at the very least implement it into your most successful products like the playstation - I don't want the shitty plastic headsets you are selling when you sell these absolutely amazing headphones which work perfectly with your phones but not playstation - Again this is why it is important to have a software engineering team that can span all of your offerings and integration between them - they have tv channel services which are on freeview Sony owned but they aren't on playstation - why ?

Anyway wall of text done.
 
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Cost of Games - Disagree. The cost of production for games have gone up exponentially. We are talking blockbuster movie type of costs. It will only get higher as time goes on.

Marketing - Agree. It is ridiculous that Sony is so secretive about their future plans.

PS games on PC - Disagree but that's because I want their games on my platform of choice.
 

Kokoloko

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Atm what pissed me off about Playstation is:
1. )
We don’t know what the hell they are planning, and what 1st party games are releasing in 2022 or 2023. Well barely.

People try and defend there lack of news and announcements with, “we don’t need to see what games are coming way in the future”….”We don’t need cgi trailers blah blah blah”….
Id rather know whats coming. Like Playstation has always done? Why change it and why defend it?

How about the next 2 years? We have only seen Spiderman 2 and Wolverine. We basically know 1 game coming next year 2023, this is unheard of.
And we kind of seen TLOU Factions 2, but we knew that since again 2020.

We knew about God of War R, Horizon 2, GT7 back in 2020…. They released 2 years later.
We 1st saw God of War 2018 in 2016….
We first saw Spiderman in 2016, released in 2018….

Thats a 2 years gap at least most times.

So theres no excuses to why we don’t know what games are coming in 2023/2024.
And I don’t understand why fans don’t want to know and defend them for it. To me thats just pure fanboyism.


2.)
What the hell have you done to your Japanese connections?

-Bloodborne producer has gone to Team Ninja
-Team gravity is gone
-No Ueda ( Yes, lazy and blah blah but made great unique games which is lacking atm )
-No Miyazaki Exclusive
-No Team Ninja Exclusive
-No Capcom Exclusive
-No Yakuza and Persona exclusives ( Basically Playstation centric games gone multiplatform and Yakuza 7 was kept off PS5 for a bit )
-Kojima making a game ( probably exclusive ) for Xbox
-Japan Studios basically down to one team.

So looks like they’ve killed alot of there Japanese relationships. ( Im gonna get a reply saying wait and see, but currently it looks bleak compared to before)
FF being exclusive is great but the rest is worse than ever. PS1/PS3/PS3/PS4 had great exclusives from 3rd party Japanese studios and Japan Studios…

As a fan, its shit to see.




3.)
PC, PC, PC!

If your gonna release games to PC, just go full on 3rd party and release older games on Switch too. If its money you want, why not release games on Switch where people actually buy games?
Why would releasing games on PC not have a negative effect on Playstation, but releasing older games on Switch/Xbox would?

4.)
Jim Ryan kinda sucks and Herman had his PS5 upside down… What have they done for the gamers?
We’ve had some truly amazing games in the last 2 years, probably better than most publishers.
Since 2020 we’ve had:
Dreams
Ghost of Tsushima
TLOU2
Demons Souls
Spiderman MM
Astrobot
Returnal
Ratchet and Clank
GT7
Horizon 2
God of War R
TLOU1 remake
+ Some 3rd party console exclusives like Final Fantasy 7Remake, Nioh 2, Guilty Gear, Kena, Sifu, Stray etc

I don’t think any other publisher has released this many quality games in 2 years.


But these were all done before Jim and Herman came to be, I want to see what it cooking at the studios, or if its all falling apart.


5.)Bonus

While MS is shoppping, buying IP’s and Publishers ( whether you like it or no. I dont, but its keeping them in the games industry and taking IP’s from other platforms ).
Sony is losing the opportunity to buy studios like Super Massive Games, Quantum Dreams, FromSoft etc. And if they think buying half of Square is gonna be the reply to MS, then lol


- Cost of games, Im ok with. Yeah its not great but if you were about in the older days, games were sometimes more than $70. $10 increase is understandable in this day and age.
 

Yurinka

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Cost of games - Disagree, every generation AAA budgets grow a lot and game prices or sales don't scale proportionally, or even proporitonally to inflation. Top 16 bit games were way more expensive than next gen pricing. Btw not a PS5 thing, also have it in Xbox and PC. If there are way less on Xbox it's because there are way less next gen only games. I prefer a $10 increase and to keep having exclusive AAA single player games with no IAP, season passes, dlc, MP focus and so on, being released in more places, etc. Which is what they need to do compensate that lack of revenue to compensate these rising costs.

Marketing - I like them to focus their marketing on games planned to be released in the next months, up to a year and a half or so. This allows them to show gameplay of almost finished games that look like the finished games and you don't have to wait so long to get these games. If they announce or show games to be released many years in the future it means they only can show logos, CGs, or maximum a tech demo or vertical slice, that will change a lot during development and then people will complain a lot about supposed downgrades, when the reality is that they didn't have a crystal ball and simply couldn't achieve what they were aiming for.

PS games on PC - I think it's good if they only port some of their games (not all) and port only old games (no day one PC release), originally released years before on console and after they got so cheap and included in their game subs. It gives them extra revenue they need for their projects, help to increase their fanbase and IPs. I think it may help to sell consoles for people who meet new IPs on PC and need a console to play their sequels. I think it would damage their business if all their games would be released in PC and/or if they would be released day one.
 
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Vertigo

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Sony is actually capable of creating new ideas… that alone is enough. That and Microsoft’s behavior as an all consuming monolith is absolutely disgusting. I stand against any company that behaves like such; this includes Disney. No way. I refuse
 
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$70 games is a joke an artificial tax that people are justifying. It will keep games AAA, It'll keep out MTX, etc etc.

its a next gen tax some publishers are pushing simply because they can. Look at COD. Was $70 on Xbox Series X/S and PS5 but $60 on PC. They simply know the PC crowd wouldn't take the hit on the chin and console players would.

Record profits and revenue yet we somehow need $70 all the sudden to justify their budgets?

Bullshit.
 
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Record profits and revenue yet we somehow need $70 all the sudden to justify their budgets?

Bullshit.
Umm.. no. Costs of games are going up for sure. Tech is also becoming more expensive and requires more time. It is what it is.
 
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Umm.. no. Costs of games are going up for sure. Tech is also becoming more expensive and requires more time. It is what it is.
Where did I say they werent? It doesnt change their numbers, even before the price hike. record profits and revenue.

The ballooning budget problem is also not going to be solved by rising the price of games. Ubisoft is a prime example of pumping way too much time and money into a single game that is over 100 hours long that nobody asked for. Assassins creed odyssey didn't set record sales because it was over 100 hours long.
 
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The ballooning budget problem is also not going to be solved by rising the price of games. Ubisoft is a prime example of pumping way too much time and money into a single game that is over 100 hours long that nobody asked for. Assassins creed odyssey didn't set record sales because it was over 100 hours long.
Then what do you suggest? You certainly can't LOWER the price of games over time.
 
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Then what do you suggest? You certainly can't LOWER the price of games over time.
Budget accordingly. Like I said with my example of ubisoft.

I am not against raising prices. It needs to make sense to the consumer and there hasnt been a single example of where raising the price of a game to $70 has done anything to keep the quality of said game high.

There is nothing about Call of Duty, NBA 2k, Tiny Tina, Demon Souls, Returnal etc that justifies its higher pricetag. And 2K and activision have proven this by keep PC at $60.

GT7 was still crossgen, has MTX, etc etc.
 
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vdopey

vdopey

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12 Jul 2022
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Cost of Games - Disagree. The cost of production for games have gone up exponentially. We are talking blockbuster movie type of costs. It will only get higher as time goes on.

Marketing - Agree. It is ridiculous that Sony is so secretive about their future plans.

PS games on PC - Disagree but that's because I want their games on my platform of choice.

Cost of Games - I agree development has gone up especially for the visually spectacular games, but come on do you really think Returnal was worth £70 ? They need to have tiered pricing also again Digital has made the actual cost of distribution much much cheaper and most games are now sold digitally so while development costs certainly have risen *for specific* types of games, this is not true for all games and distribution / copy has also reduced especially for digital games.

PS Games on PC - I am a Linux guy, I love Steam, so of course for me it is better as well - I got my steam deck at last as well and it is awesome to see their games work on Linux without issue - however 1. Why DirectX? Why Microsofts API when Vulkan exists and 2. From a pure business standpoint it doesn't make sense to me come on @VFX_Veteran even you admitted to selling all of your consoles and playing on PC only, which means any game or dlc or whatever you might have bought from PSN is no longer the case, you also wont ever be subscribing to ps+ or to any of the other services so they in turn lose all of that revenue. Purely from a business perspective this doesn't make sense.

If they do produce a psn launcher this would make sense to an extent - A ps+ subscription should carry over between playstation to pc and PC should be all personal computers (including us lowly Linux users, Macs too got some Apple gear here but screw Metal Apple should be embracing Vulkan)
 

Umar

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Budget accordingly. Like I said with my example of ubisoft.

I am not against raising prices. It needs to make sense to the consumer and there hasnt been a single example of where raising the price of a game to $70 has done anything to keep the quality of said game high.

There is nothing about Call of Duty, NBA 2k, Tiny Tina, Demon Souls, Returnal etc that justifies its higher pricetag. And 2K and activision have proven this by keep PC at $60.

GT7 was still crossgen, has MTX, etc etc.
Modern Warfare 2 is $70 on steam. Nice try though
 
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vdopey

vdopey

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Where did I say they werent? It doesnt change their numbers, even before the price hike. record profits and revenue.

The ballooning budget problem is also not going to be solved by rising the price of games. Ubisoft is a prime example of pumping way too much time and money into a single game that is over 100 hours long that nobody asked for. Assassins creed odyssey didn't set record sales because it was over 100 hours long.
This is what I don't get - who has 100 hours to spend on 1 game ? Especially if that 100 hours is what I consider "work" having to make gaming a 2nd full time job to complete a game - because they decided to make it "open world" and then had to cram in a tonne of bullshit side quests that just serve to waste time levelling up some component of your gear to get better stats or whatever - not for me sorry I ain't got the time. I want to sit down get into a game play for half an hour / an hour then turn off my console and get on with whatever else I have to do - don't waste my time on bullshit filler / grinding. I ain't a 12 year old with way too much time on my hands.
 
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vdopey

vdopey

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Modern Warfare 2 is $70 on steam. Nice try though
Activision is trying hard - this is for the plebs that cant wait a month - I can guarantee you this game will be £40 - 50 in supermarkets on release and that price within a month in sales. Activision has some of the scummiest practices going they stick so much shit behind a paywall its sickening £70 price of entry to then spend another £100 on skins and blueprints and other shit, then youtube gamers to advertise their shitty promotion tag so that they can get a cut of all of the sales you make on the game - for them playing the game on youtube, advertising the game in essence. This whole industry has issues. I am an FPS whore though so I might succumb if I cant get it cheaper, what can I say... I disappoint myself :confused:
 

Umar

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First time that have done this with the franchise on PC.

SO nice try though?

Even still lets negate the plethora of other things I said.

Go get em tiger.
they arent the only one doing 70 on pc. FF7 remake and Forspoken are also $70
 

laynelane

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Cost of Games - Disagree. The cost of production for games have gone up exponentially. We are talking blockbuster movie type of costs. It will only get higher as time goes on.

Marketing - Agree. It is ridiculous that Sony is so secretive about their future plans.

PS games on PC - Disagree but that's because I want their games on my platform of choice.

I've heard this complaint before - that Sony is too secretive. What do you mean by that? What are you expecting? They give us information on upcoming game releases and various other offerings within a relevant time frame. What else should they be doing?
 
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Budget accordingly. Like I said with my example of ubisoft.

I am not against raising prices. It needs to make sense to the consumer and there hasnt been a single example of where raising the price of a game to $70 has done anything to keep the quality of said game high.
But what about TLOU Remake for example? It has enormous production values compared to the PS4 version.
 
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I've heard this complaint before - that Sony is too secretive. What do you mean by that? What are you expecting? They give us information on upcoming game releases and various other offerings within a relevant time frame. What else should they be doing?
For example. If they know what games they are porting to the PC, why not announce all the games for the year?
 
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