The $70 Discussion

[PropellerEar]

Have bought most of the big PS5 exclusives but I haven't touched PS store, 30% or more cheaper to buy physical on release day in the Nordics.

 

[LightBolt]

I'm not gonna lie and say i won't be there day one for PSS games and all that... $70 is a bit much for some people and i understand where they are coming from.
I think GOWR will do 4m+ in the first many days and Sony ain't gonna be worried at all.

 

[Rivet]

So how much is GTA6 going to cost $350? Nope, it's going to make it's money back by selling a ridiculous high number of copies, assuming it will work out for them.

That would be another option yes, increasing drastically the number of copies sold... Or microtransactions I guess.

Game costs must stop increasing that fast anyway, or they'll have a hard time keeping the same profit margins.

 

[DynamiteCop]

That's $77 after tax, and reality is most games that are that much anyways have some type of microtransaction system anyways so it's pretty off-putting in general

 

[Papacheeks]

So how much is GTA6 going to cost $350? Nope, it's going to make it's money back by selling a ridiculous high number of copies, assuming it will work out for them.

It's like you dont understand budgets? Last of us was like 160 Million to make without marketing budgets accounted. Halo Infinite cost 500 Million so didnt destiny with its marketing included.

So how to you offset that cost? You would have to sell 10 Million copies plus at full price. And rarely do games make it past 10 Million on one platform.

GTA is on PC, XBOX, PLAYSTATION. It has multiple avenues to make their money back through different platforms.

For Sony their stuff is on one box, and maybe a year or two down the road it comes to PC. Thats still mainly 1 platform they primarily concentrate on.

How would they offset higher budgets?

Former PlayStation exec forecasts PS5 game budgets will exceed $200 million

Ex PlayStation exec says PS5 budgets to exceed $200 million

Ever-ballooning budgets exceeding $200 million will lead to more sequels and less innovation, says one of the former bosses of the PlayStation brand.

www.vg247.com

Game Pass can't sustain $120M games until it has 500M subscribers, says former PlayStation boss Shawn Layden

Game Pass can't sustain $120M games until it has 500M subscribers, says former PlayStation boss Shawn Layden

There is a way to expand the games audience to support the rising costs of the biggest games, but Shawn Layden doesn't think Game Pass is it.

www.vg247.com

Shawn Layden: "I would welcome a return to the 12 to 15 hour AAA game"​

At Gamelab Live, the former PlayStation exec discussed the industry's need to rethink the spiralling costs of AAA development​

Shawn Layden: "I would welcome a return to the 12 to 15 hour AAA game"

Former PlayStation executive Shawn Layden has called for the industry to examine the trend towards bigger and more expe…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Layden recalled the days of $1 million production budgets for the biggest games on the market, and referred to a commonly stated theory that the cost of development has doubled with every new generation of consoles.

"The problem with that model is it's just not sustainable," he said, explaining that the current generation has seen the cost of development reach between $80 million and $150 million for most AAA games -- excluding marketing costs -- with production taking up to five years from start to finish.

"I don't think that, in the next generation, you can take those numbers and multiply them by two and think that you can grow," he continued. "I think the industry as a whole needs to sit back and go, 'Alright, what are we building? What's the audience expectation? What is the best way to get our story across, and say what we need to say?'

The single most important reason why the AAA model is unsustainable is not escalating costs or team sizes, though. Rather, it is "one of the weird freaks of nature" in Layden's 25 year career in the games business: no matter how big the games get, the basic price has always stayed the same, and the audience is very sensitive to the idea of it ever being higher.

"It's been $59.99 since I started in this business, but the cost of games have gone up ten times. If you don't have elasticity on the price-point, but you have huge volatility on the cost line, the model becomes more difficult. I think this generation is going to see those two imperatives collide."

Shawn basically explains to you, what you are asking.

 

[nominedomine]

It's like you dont understand budgets? Last of us was like 160 Million to make without marketing budgets accounted. Halo Infinite cost 500 Million so didnt destiny with its marketing included.

So how to you offset that cost? You would have to sell 10 Million copies plus at full price. And rarely do games make it past 10 Million on one platform.

GTA is on PC, XBOX, PLAYSTATION. It has multiple avenues to make their money back through different platforms.

For Sony their stuff is on one box, and maybe a year or two down the road it comes to PC. Thats still mainly 1 platform they primarily concentrate on.

How would they offset higher budgets?

I got nothing against $70 or $80 or $100, they can charge whatever they want (and I'll buy if I think it's worth my money), my only point is that game price is not tied to budget. Do you honestly think that every $60 game had the same budget? You think Sackboy had a bigger budget than Miles Morales?

 

[Nym]

What bothers me the most about game prices is that if you want an actual full fighting game nowadays you get completely screwed unless you are ok to wait for sales and bundles long after the playerbase has dwindled down into only the sweatiest of the sweaty.

I ignore DLC for almost all games, but it's a lot more difficult to stay DLC free with fighters, the roster is a hugely essential part of a fighting game. It sucks buying a product on Day 1 at full price knowing it is fundamentally incomplete.

 

[Bryank75]

Have bought most of the big PS5 exclusives but I haven't touched PS store, 30% or more cheaper to buy physical on release day in the Nordics.

Now I know where to move!

That really suit the way I want to game.

 

[Bryank75]

What bothers me the most about game prices is that if you want an actual full fighting game nowadays you get completely screwed unless you are ok to wait for sales and bundles long after the playerbase has dwindled down into only the sweatiest of the sweaty.

I ignore DLC for almost all games, but it's a lot more difficult to stay DLC free with fighters, the roster is a hugely essential part of a fighting game. It sucks buying a product on Day 1 at full price knowing it is fundamentally incomplete.

So true... something about Tekken 7 and Guilty Gear dlc that really rubbed me the wrong way....'Seasons'.... dont like any term for it.

 

[Papacheeks]

I got nothing against $70 or $80 or $100, they can charge whatever they want (and I'll buy if I think it's worth my money), my only point is that game price is not tied to budget. Do you honestly think that every $60 game had the same budget? You think Sackboy had a bigger budget than Miles Morales?

Sackboy was not full $70 when it launched. Neither was Miles, only the Ultimate version was $70. Also SACKBOY was outsourced by Sumo Digitial. Which is cheaper.

Budget for that game was probably really low compared to other larger projects that have MO-CAP, voice work, more to them. Not all games that have launched on PS5 were $70. And Jim Ryan literally set the tone when they did their original announcement for PS5.

Why do you think they curate games from Indie partners like Sifu, Kena? All $29.99-39.99. If people want to play smaller titles then they have those too. Sony knows that people will buy their games either at full price or at discount. So even when people are buying at $50, thats still better than someone buying your game at $20.

Which is what happened to Days Gone.

 

[Deleted member 140]

What bothers me the most about game prices is that if you want an actual full fighting game nowadays you get completely screwed unless you are ok to wait for sales and bundles long after the playerbase has dwindled down into only the sweatiest of the sweaty.

I ignore DLC for almost all games, but it's a lot more difficult to stay DLC free with fighters, the roster is a hugely essential part of a fighting game. It sucks buying a product on Day 1 at full price knowing it is fundamentally incomplete.

While single player DLC is somewhat fine with me as long as the main game feels like a complete experience, fighting games feel different.

I agree with you 100%, it's very frustrating to know that you're practically buying a full priced "starter pack" at launch and then have to purchase DLC fighters or packages separately - and not for cheap.

 

[Swift_Star]

I’ll be honest here. I don’t like the price rise. Specially since $10 can be a lot of money in other countries. But I do feel the controversy is basically restricted to console warriors. I feel like most of the userbase don’t give a shit and are gladly paying more for the games.

 

[Katajx]

Yeah, when you compare it to PC it makes it seem pretty crappy. I feel like there should be more variation in game prices currently. The little bit I have played Returnal I like. It has quality.

I won’t pay $70 for that type of game though. No disrespect meant toward the developers.

 

[Swift_Star]

Yeah, when you compare it to PC it makes it seem pretty crappy. I feel like there should be more variation in game prices currently. The little bit I have played Returnal I like. It has quality.

I won’t pay $70 for that type of game though. No disrespect meant toward the developers.

I mean it’s fine if you don’t want to pay for that but it’s really annoying when every single discussion about the games devolve into this shit price talk. I also don’t pay full price for lots of games but I don’t go into threads to derail them into this.

 

[Katajx]

I mean it’s fine if you don’t want to pay for that but it’s really annoying when every single discussion about the games devolve into this shit price talk. I also don’t pay full price for lots of games but I don’t go into threads to derail them into this.

Is it not a $70 game? Is that not what the thread is about? The prices of games increasing?

 

[Swift_Star]

Is it not a $70 game? Is that not what the thread is about? The prices of games increasing?

I’m not talking about you or this thread specifically but about how people constantly make the game discussion about this. The discussions get drowned in this price talk.

 

[nominedomine]

Sackboy was not full $70 when it launched. Neither was Miles, only the Ultimate version was $70. Also SACKBOY was outsourced by Sumo Digitial. Which is cheaper.

Budget for that game was probably really low compared to other larger projects that have MO-CAP, voice work, more to them. Not all games that have launched on PS5 were $70. And Jim Ryan literally set the tone when they did their original announcement for PS5.

Why do you think they curate games from Indie partners like Sifu, Kena? All $29.99-39.99. If people want to play smaller titles then they have those too. Sony knows that people will buy their games either at full price or at discount. So even when people are buying at $50, thats still better than someone buying your game at $20.

Which is what happened to Days Gone.

You really have a hard time understanding what I say, I never said Sackboy or Miles Morales were $70, just that one was more expensive than the other despite clearly having the lower budget.

My point was very simple, budget is not what determines the price of the game.

 

[Papacheeks]

You really have a hard time understanding what I say, I never said Sackboy or Miles Morales were $70, just that one was more expensive than the other despite clearly having the lower budget.

My point was very simple, budget is not what determines the price of the game.

Which one was more expensive?

You're whole argument was about game price not being tied to budget. And it in fact is. I literally put tons of linked info from previous SIE president Shawn Layden.

Sony uses nothing but the best mo-cap studio/camera's/sensors and almost every first party and even Third party partners if they have it in their contract can use their facilities. Sony is also Animation, VFX, Film/Music Production company that creates some of the highest end camera sensors/lens tech.
There's a reason Facial MO-CAP is kind of their crowing achievement in games. NINJA THeory has done some great facial mo-cap work thats pretty fantastic. But in terms of camera usage, animation rigging, actions Sony has literally close to the best in the industry.

And its because of their facilities. Which other people pay them to use depending on the contract.
So games being more expensive after seeing examples of Days gone where it ended up selling 8-10 million and barely made its production budget back shows how much they spend on development costs.

And how if a game is selling at heavy discount like days gone was within first couple months of its release it shows that they need to find ways to make more money, and have shorter development cycles. WHich was also in the articles I linked.

 

[nominedomine]

Which one was more expensive?

Sackboy was $59 and Spider-man was $49 if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Katajx]

The reason is simple, they do it because they can get away with it.

They know that the PS5 audience has a bigger drive to buy games than the people that are still on the PS4 and a $10 tax won't stop them from doing so. They also want to set the $70 as the new standard for this gen.

It makes me happy when there is a game that exists that I want to spend $60 or $70 on, in fact I can't wait for more of them. Most games ain't worth my time or money regardless of the price.

Another reason why I'm not bothered by it is that games drop in price really fast, with very few exceptions (Nintendo games for example). If I'm willing to spend $40 on a game but not $70, fine, it will be available for that price soon enough.

I’ll give Sony that for sure. If you want to wait a little bit you can try their games at a pretty discounted price.

That’s how I played Horizon, the Uncharted games, and a few others I wasn’t sold on at launch.

Definitely not the same for Nintendo.