VFX Artist for Bossa Studios claims Many Devs have been desperately trying to get Series S dropped - it’s an albatross for next gen

rofif

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Guys.
I just want to tell you.... I like you and I appreciate you all.
I am happy we can have this discussion.

None of which can be said for xss
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IntentionalPun

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It's not gonna happen.

I wish Series S didn't exist but MS isn't going to and really can't just change that.

Unless they hid some fine print somewhere about what games will be supported.
 

Papacheeks

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You guys need to stop listening to these garbage VFX artists and absolutely unrelated people parading around like engineers and coders who know nothing, and are clearly lying for attention.

Ffg2O3qX0AIZjo9

These guys specifically redo old games in their original Code? These games are literally from the 90's to early 2000's. They can run on a potato. So of course this developer isn't going to see the same things someone from ID software, or NetherRealm.

Talk about reaching.
 

DynamiteCop

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These guys specifically redo old games in their original Code? These games are literally from the 90's to early 2000's. They can run on a potato. So of course this developer isn't going to see the same things someone from ID software, or NetherRealm.

Talk about reaching.
What is the System Shock Remake for $1,000, Alex.
 
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That's not how it works, and you know it, but nice try to move goal posts.

everyone GIF
of them will look better on PS5 than on your 🥔 deck
Tell me how it works sir. How can a game be designed for a low-end platform and yet feature graphics that only the high-end GPUs can run? I'm confused.
 

ethomaz

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It's a modern game using all of the modern rendering techniques using a modern engine. You don't have a leg to stand on friend.
I'm not sure if it is a joke or not.

It uses DirectX 11 with Shader Model 5.0 with very old GPUs with 2GB of VRAM.

What is modern rendering techniques it is using? Please do the minimum research please.
It is not even the goal of the project that is just to make the original game easy playable in modem systems.

But hey looks at that modern redering technices and modern engine running on RTX 3080:

 
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I'm not sure if it is a joke or not.

It uses DirectX 11 with Shader Model 5.0 with very old GPUs with 2GB of VRAM.

What is modern rendering techniques it is using? Please do the minimum research please.
It is not even the goal of the project that is just to make the original game easy playable in modem systems.

But hey looks at that modern redering technices and modern engine running on RTX 3080:

It's using a more advanced form of AO than consoles and it's using DLSS.

It's modern because it's using the latest iteration of UE. Anisotropic filtering, Shadow maps, GI probe based, normal maps, etc..
 

PropellerEar

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Tell me how it works sir. How can a game be designed for a low-end platform and yet feature graphics that only the high-end GPUs can run? I'm confused.
That's not what you said, but I can take this too.

(Spider-Man if it was designed for Steam Deck)
If a game designed for your super-low-end Steam Deck, then would be ported to let's say middle-end'ish PS5, they could bump resolution, fps and add RT. (Performance-RT)

Why do you need to push this obtuse non-sense that you don't believe yourself.
 
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That's not what you said, but I can take this too.

(Spider-Man if it was designed for Steam Deck)
If a game designed for your super-low-end Steam Deck, then would be ported to let's say middle-end'ish PS5, they could bump resolution, fps and add RT. (Performance-RT)

Why do you need to push this obtuse non-sense that you don't believe yourself.
There are several flaws in you guys' thinking that low-end hardware is the primary development sku and devs scale UP instead of down.

1 - Textures have to be at their highest resolution. If a game is designed for low end hardware, then textures would appear blurred in 4k renders. However, that's not the case. They develop textures at the highest resolution so they don't have to redo it for high end hardware.

2 - The algorithm for worldspace hemisphere ambient occlusion is complex and totally different than typical SSAO. It can't run at reasonable fps even on next-generation hardware and yet it's always an option in the game for PC.

3 - LOD environment landscapes have to have a max distance in the algorithm to render geo much further than low-end hardware. It has to be optimized before it can run at the highest levels. Again showing low-end hardware isn't the primary development machine.

4 - True volume shafts, smoke and clouds need more samples in order to look cleaner and doesn't have that option on low-end hardware or consoles.

5 - Global illumination using screen space algorithm shown in UE is a different algo and isn't an option on low end systems shown in the game Days Gone. Look at the tech analysis on the PC version. Clearly an implemented option for high-end systems only.

6 - Adding RT on hardware would be not worth the cost if the main platform is low-end hardware. Why even bother with algorithms that are expensive like RTGI, Shadows, Reflections and Diffuse lighting. Especially all combined together.

All these things wouldn't be implemented if low end hardware is the main SKU. You honestly believe that they're testing hardware is low end graphics boards? There would be no need to do R&D on next gen features.
 
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ethomaz

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It's using a more advanced form of AO than consoles and it's using DLSS.

It's modern because it's using the latest iteration of UE. Anisotropic filtering, Shadow maps, GI probe based, normal maps, etc..
?

They moved from Unity to Unreal Engine 4.
C’mon.
 

PropellerEar

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1 - Textures have to be at their highest resolution. If a game is designed for low end hardware, then textures would appear blurred in 4k renders. However, that's not the case. They develop textures at the highest resolution so they don't have to redo it for high end hardware.
I don't know what your trying to prove with this self obvious 1st point.
Still target SKU matters...
Look at textures in HFW you don't have better textures in HZD on PC.
2 - The algorithm for worldspace hemisphere ambient occlusion is complex and totally different than typical SSAO. It can't run at reasonable fps even on next-generation hardware and yet it's always an option in the game for PC.
If you get your rocks off with graphics options you can't use, Steam Deck is the perfect platform for you.
3 - LOD environment landscapes have to have a max distance in the algorithm to render geo much further than low-end hardware. It has to be optimized before it can run at the highest levels. Again showing low-end hardware isn't the primary development machine.
Again total nonsense, you optimize performance for
target SKU, not development machine(even though any optimization will also benefit development)
4 - True volume shafts, smoke and clouds need more samples in order to look cleaner and doesn't have that option on low-end hardware or consoles.
Enjoy that low quality smoke and clouds on Steam Deck.
5 - Global illumination using screen space algorithm shown in UE is a different algo and isn't an option on low end systems shown in the game Days Gone. Look at the tech analysis on the PC version. Clearly an implemented option for high-end systems only.
This is a PS4 game, if Sony wanted they could do a remaster of it and turn some knobs in UE4 for PS5 too.
Metro 2033 shows global illumination on PS5 and XSX, so it can be done.

6 - Adding RT on hardware would be not worth the cost if the main platform is low-end hardware. Why even bother with algorithms that are expensive like RTGI, Shadows, Reflections and Diffuse lighting. Especially all combined together.
This has nothing to do with anything.
How's RT working for you on Steam Deck?

All these things wouldn't be implemented if low end hardware is the main SKU.
They can be and they are.
(Pretty unclear what you mean with main SKU, Dev machine or target)

You honestly believe that they're testing hardware is low end graphics boards? There would be no need to do R&D on next gen features.
Do you actually know anything about actual game development and where(on what hardware) studios with own engines test and run their games during development?
 

ethomaz

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So? What's wrong with UE4? Its modern.
What you said is false… it is not the latest interaction… it is a old engine.

The game has nothing modern… can run at 8k in top GPUs and runs on potato PCs from a decade ago.

Just look at video and you will understand… there is nothing next-gen or modern to it… I wonder if you really understand how game development works.
 
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I don't know what your trying to prove with this self obvious 1st point.
Still target SKU matters...
Look at textures in HFW you don't have better textures in HZD on PC.
Dude. You are comparing 2 totally different games. There is no proof when textures were created or what resolution they were in. It boggles my mind that you only consider PS games as if they are the only studios in the entire gaming world. ALL of yours examples use Sony games. Why is that?

If you get your rocks off with graphics options you can't use, Steam Deck is the perfect platform for you.
I don't get the jab at the steam deck. I have a PC with better hardware. You are the only one that talks about the steam deck. Hate much?

Again total nonsense, you optimize performance for
target SKU, not development machine(even though any optimization will also benefit development)
What is the target SKU please? What is it with Cyberpunk? Where has a company stated they use a low end graphics card for their design choices and there push for better graphics algorithms? Who cares if they lower things to make low-end hardware performance. My point is low end hardware is not where they create algorithms. They implement at the most powerful SKU and scale down.

Enjoy that low quality smoke and clouds on Steam Deck.
Whatever.

This is a PS4 game, if Sony wanted they could do a remaster of it and turn some knobs in UE4 for PS5 too.
Metro 2033 shows global illumination on PS5 and XSX, so it can be done.
It is extremely at low resolution samples. They did not design there graphics features for next gen with a 1060.

Do you actually know anything about actual game development and where(on what hardware) studios with own engines test and run their games during development?
Yes,I do. Do you? You are speaking about when they run compile versions of different hardware platforms. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the R&D phase where shit gets implemented from papers. Knobs and dials have a cost. You can't be ok with shitty shadows but not ok with shitty Reflections. Rendering is all about taking samples to approximate the real world. Don't be so dismissive of it just because the PS can't do it at a good fps.
 
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PropellerEar

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Dude. You are comparing 2 totally different games. There is no proof when textures were created or what resolution they were in. It boggles my mind that you only consider PS games as if they are the only studios in the entire gaming world. ALL of yours examples use Sony games. Why is that?
Then why speculate on something that is so self explanatory, I just made a case that even when creating textures target system matters.
Why HWD/HWZ... just a suggestion don't make legendary BS statements that people will remember.

I don't get the jab at the steam deck. I have a PC with better hardware. You are the only one that talks about the steam deck. Hate much?
It's a super-low-end system, you like to jab at divides better hw, so why not this stinker? Just bringing out your double standards.
What is the target SKU please?
Yeah if you don't know this, there is much for you to learn.
What is it with Cyberpunk?
Who knows, clearly unfinished product at launch.
Wouldn't use it as example for anything.
Where has a company stated they use a low end graphics card for their design choices
This an absolute truth, that it happens, if you have a low end system like XSS your design choices need to reflect that.

and there push for better graphics algorithms?
Pushing for better graphics algorithms happens in many cases in the engine teams who can work some part on new features, but if you have and in-house engine and you're making exclusives only for Switch, you are not going to use much resources explore RT that's for sure, but maybe your time is better used optimizing what you already have.
Who cares if they lower things to make low-end hardware performance. My point is low end hardware is not where they create algorithms. They implement at the most powerful SKU and scale down.
You seem to care...

To create a new algorithm is more based on theoretical work than hardware you run, but if you want to try out a demanding graphics tech in practice of course you need HW that is capable of doing that.

Whatever.
😏
It is extremely at low resolution samples. They did not design there graphics features for next gen with a 1060.
What is? Days Gone?
Meant to say Metro Exodus as a example of PS4 game where they re-released it with GI PS5. This is exactly what is happening with ports to PC, you can enable new graphics features if the newer/more poserful HW is capable of running them. If they use 1060, 2080, or what ever GPU they want doesn't matter, what you can run the game on does.

Yes,I do. Do you?
Probably more than you.

You are speaking about when they run compile versions of different hardware platforms.
This sentence doesn't make much sense.
But those hardware platforms are representation of the target SKU or target platforms.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the R&D phase where shit gets implemented from papers.
Most of what happens in game development is not R&D of this sort.

Knobs and dials have a cost.
Whoop de doo, now you say first thing that makes sense.
You can't be ok with shitty shadows but not ok with shitty Reflections.
What does this mean?

Rendering is all about taking samples to approximate the real world.
😑

Don't be so dismissive of it just because the PS can't do it at a good fps.
Don't stumble on your double standards potato deck
 
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Then why speculate on something that is so self explanatory, I just made a case that even when creating textures target system matters.
Why HWD/HWZ... just a suggestion don't make legendary BS statements that people will remember. Scale
You are being an assshole now and not focusing on the slander. Why make 4k textures if your target system is a 1060? Answer? We design for highend hardware and scale down in multiplat cases.

It's a super-low-end system, you like to jab at divides better hw, so why not this stinker? Just bringing out your double standards.
It's called being an asshole.

Yeah if you don't know this, there is much for you to learn.
Teach me Obi-Wan. I'm here to learn Mr. Game Developer.

Who knows, clearly unfinished product at launch.
Wouldn't use it as example for anything.
Right. Example is clear in multiplatform games. They design graphics around high-end hardware and scale down.

This an absolute truth, that it happens, if you have a low end system like XSS your design choices need to reflect that.
Game design choices yes. Not graphics design choices which is my point.

Pushing for better graphics algorithms happens in many cases in the engine teams who can work some part on new features
Thank you! That wasn't so bad to admit. Maybe now your Sony comrades will stop spouting false information about graphics being stuck with low end systems while higher end hardware gets better approximations.

, but if you have and in-house engine and you're making exclusives only for Switch, you are not going to use much resources explore RT that's for sure, but maybe your time is better used optimizing what you already have.
That's the switch. We are talking about multiplaform games.

Meant to say Metro Exodus as a example of PS4 game where they re-released it with GI PS5. This is exactly what is happening with ports to PC, you can enable new graphics features if the newer/more poserful HW is capable of running them. If they use 1060, 2080, or what ever GPU they want doesn't matter, what you can run the game on does.
The tech itself was created on the PC. Their primary platform and scaled down.

Probably more than you.
Sure. Where do you work and what is your job title?
 
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PropellerEar

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You are being an assshole now and not focusing on the slander. Why make 4k textures if your target system is a 1060? Answer? We design for highend hardware and scale down in multiplat cases.
If you design for Switch you don't need 4k.
There is nothing to explain, your target system matters.

It's called being an asshole.
It's not, don't be a snowflake.
You just can take the same when it's targeted at you.
Right. Example is clear in multiplatform games. They design graphics around high-end hardware and scale down.
Sometimes, sometimes not.
Game design choices yes. Not graphics design choices which is my point.
Both in various degrees.
Thank you! That wasn't so bad to admit.
I'm not admitting anything just stating my experience.
That's the switch. We are talking about multiplaform games.
Just more extreme example to make it clear.
The tech itself was created on the PC. Their primary platform and scaled down.
And...you basically said GI cannot run on PS5 .

Sure. Where do you work and what is your job title?
Nice try.
 
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