What really is first party nowadays? Definition of first/second/third party games.

[Ezekiel]

You are confusing titles and studios.

Sackboy Adventures is clearly a 1st party game, but it was developed by a 3rd party studio.

Same as the many games developed by HAL for Nintendo.



2nd party doesn't really exist, but it is usually described for games developed by a 3rd party for a platform holder. It was the case for the games developed by Insomniac before being bought and Death Stranding before Kojima buying the IP rights back.



They are both fully 3rd party, as Sony doesn't own the IPs. Both games can come to other consoles the moment the exclusiveness agreements run out, without Sony having to approve anything.

Lol you're wrong too.

The studio ownership and IP ownership doesn't matter.

If it's published by the platform holder on its platform, THAT is the criteria for first party.

Stellar Blade and Rise of the Ronin are Sony first party games for PS5.

 

[arvfab]

Is Spider-Man a 1st party game? Is Spider-Man 2?

They didn't own Insomniac when they made the first game, but does it apply retroactively?

They own Insomniac now, but they don't own the IP.

Again... it's semantics at the end of the day.

They don't own the whole Spider-Man IP, but they own THIS Spider-Man. Nobody but PlayStation can continue THESE games. Similarly how nobody could've continued Activision's Spider-Man games. They can still lose the rights to continue making, of course, same as how it happened with Activision (or EA with Star Wars).

But no, by definition the Spider-Man games aren't 1st party games, they just happen to be produced by a platform holder. Same as with Indiana Jones and Microsoft.

 

[Ezekiel]

Second party was kinda meant to define Rare’s position when Nintendo owned a good chunk while also being a hardware maker. There aren’t too many modern examples of this. Nintendo I think had a few relationships like this but eventually they would flat out wholly own studios like retro etc or exclusive game contracts before buying. Times have changed I guess.

Bloodborne is third party developed but Sony owned. So I wouldn’t call it second party.

Edit: doesn’t Sony own some of from’s parent company? So like in theory right… if Sony bought up to like 49% of shares you could then call them second party (whether they release exclusives or not).

Bloodborne is a first party game for Sony on PS4 and PS5.

 

[Boswollox]

Yes, Helldivers 2 and Death Stranding 2 are first party games on PS5.

Do you want me to speak slower for you?

Why would speaking slower help? What do you mean by this?

You don't know what first party is. That's okay, I quite enjoy your display of ignorance.

 

[Ezekiel]

They don't own the whole Spider-Man IP, but they own THIS Spider-Man. Nobody but PlayStation can continue THESE games. Similarly how nobody could've continued Activision's Spider-Man games. They can still lose the rights to continue making, of course, same as how it happened with Activision (or EA with Star Wars).

But no, by definition the Spider-Man games aren't 1st party games, they just happen to be produced by a platform holder. Same as with Indiana Jones and Microsoft.

Produced by the platform holder and available on that platform makes it, by definition, a first party game.

The same game, on Steam, makes it a third party game from the perspective of Steam users.

Portal 2, produced by Valve, is a first party game when played on Steam. Portal 2, when played on PS3, is a third party game from the perspective of that PlayStation player.

 

[arvfab]

Portal 2, produced by Valve, is a first party game when played on Steam. Portal 2, when played on PS3, is a third party game from the perspective of that PlayStation player.

Let's take Portal as an example.

Can PlayStation produce Portal 3 to launch on their console?

 

[Ezekiel]

Let's take Portal as an example.

Can PlayStation produce Portal 3 to launch on their console?

No.

If Portal 3 is published by Valve and there's a PS5 version, that game would be a third party game from the perspective of PlayStation gamers.

The same game would be considered first party from Steam players.

If somehow SIE published Portal 3 on PS5, then that would be a first party game from the perspective of PlayStation gamers.

Studio ownership doesn't matter.

IP ownership doesn't matter.

Exclusivity doesn't matter.

It's all about if the platform holder publishes the game on its platform.

FF7 Rebirth, a PS5 exclusive, is not a first party game because the publisher is not SIE. Neither is Silent Hill 2.

Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Astro Bot are all first party games from PlayStation's point of view.

 

[arvfab]

No.

Why not?

Can Valve produce and publish Uncharted on Steam?

 

[Ezekiel]

Why not?

Can Valve produce and publish Uncharted on Steam?

You're trying to focus on IP ownership and that's irrelevant for whether a game is considered first party or not.

...

If Portal 3 is published by Valve and there's a PS5 version, that game would be a third party game from the perspective of PlayStation gamers.

The same game would be considered first party from Steam players.

If somehow SIE published Portal 3 on PS5, then that would be a first party game from the perspective of PlayStation gamers.

Studio ownership doesn't matter.

IP ownership doesn't matter.

Exclusivity doesn't matter.

It's all about if the platform holder publishes the game on its platform.

FF7 Rebirth, a PS5 exclusive, is not a first party game because the publisher is not SIE. Neither is Silent Hill 2.

Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Astro Bot are all first party games from PlayStation's point of view.

 

[arvfab]

You're trying to focus on IP ownership and that's irrelevant for whether a game is considered first party or not.

Why is it so hard to answer simple questions?

Can Valve produce or publish Uncharted on Steam without talking to Sony, yes or no?

Can Sony produce and publish Rise of the Ronin 2 without talking with Koei, yes or no?

Can Kojima now produce and publish a Death Stranding sequel on Xbox (and only there) without talking with Sony, yes or no?

 

[Ezekiel]

Why is it so hard to answer simple questions?

Can Valve produce or publish Uncharted on Steam without talking to Sony, yes or no?

Can Sony produce and publish Rise of the Ronin 2 without talking with Koei, yes or no?

Can Kojima now produce and publish a Death Stranding sequel on Xbox (and only there) without talking with Sony, yes or no?

Can Valve produce or publish Uncharted on Steam without talking to Sony, yes or no?
--> No

Can Sony produce and publish Rise of the Ronin 2 without talking with Koei, yes or no?
--> Depends on who owns the rights

Can Kojima now produce and publish a Death Stranding sequel on Xbox (and only there) without talking with Sony, yes or no?
--> That would depend on the publishing deal with Sony for Death Stranding 2

All of that is irrelevant for determining if a game is a first party game on a platform or not.

Let me repeat that for you, because you seem to ignore it every time.

All of that
is irrelevant
for determining
if a game
is a first party game
on a platform
or not.

Death Stranding 1 is a first party game on PS4 and the Director's Cut is on PS5

Stellar Blade is a first party game on PS5.

Rise of the Ronin is a first party game on PS5.

You keep mixing up first party game status with IP rights ownership and studio ownership. It's totally irrelevant.

 

[arvfab]

Can Valve produce or publish Uncharted on Steam without talking to Sony, yes or no?
--> No

Correct

Can Sony produce and publish Rise of the Ronin 2 without talking with Koei, yes or no?
--> Depends on who owns the rights

Koei owns the rights.

Can Kojima now produce and publish a Death Stranding sequel on Xbox (and only there) without talking with Sony, yes or no?
--> That would depend on the publishing deal with Sony for Death Stranding 2

Also correct

All of that is irrelevant for determining if a game is a first party game on a platform or not.

Let me repeat that for you, because you seem to ignore it every time.

All of that
is irrelevant
for determining
if a game
is a first party game
on a platform
or not.

Wrong

Death Stranding 1 is a first party game on PS4 and the Director's Cut is on PS5

Wrong, or at least it's wrong now that Sony doesn't own thr IP anymore.

Stellar Blade is a first party game on PS5.

Wrong, Sony doesn't own the IP.

Rise of the Ronin is a first party game on PS5.

Wrong, Sony doesn't own the IP.

You keep mixing up first party game status with IP rights ownership and studio ownership. It's totally irrelevant.

Wrong, for a game to be first party, the platform holder needs to own the IP. Very simple, I bet you might understand it in the future.

Explain to me Call of Duty in Japan or Final Fantasy in Asia (outside of Japan). These games were published by PlayStation there.

Explain to me why Microsoft had to buy the Gears Of War IP in order to keep making the games instead of Epic going multiplatform with it.

Explain to me Mass Effect arriving on PlayStation (with EA publishing it) after being published by Microsoft on X360.

What about LEGO Horizon? From Sony's perspective, is it only 1st party on PlayStation? Isn't it anymore a Sony game on Switch?

 

[Ezekiel]

Correct


Koei owns the rights.

Also correct


Wrong

Wrong, or at least it's wrong now that Sony doesn't own thr IP anymore.

Wrong, Sony doesn't own the IP.

Wrong, Sony doesn't own the IP.


Wrong, for a game to be first party, the platform holder needs to own the IP. Very simple, I bet you might understand it in the future.

Explain to me Call of Duty in Japan or Final Fantasy in Asia (outside of Japan). These games were published by PlayStation there.

Explain to me why Microsoft had to buy the Gears Of War IP in order to keep making the games instead of Epic going multiplatform with it.

Explain to me Mass Effect arriving on PlayStation (with EA publishing it) after being published by Microsoft on X360.

What about LEGO Horizon? From Sony's perspective, is it only 1st party on PlayStation? Isn't it anymore a Sony game on Switch?

Wrong, for a game to be first party, the platform holder needs to own the IP. Very simple, I bet you might understand it in the future.
--> No. One criteria : Is the publisher of the game the same entity as the platform the game is played on. If Yes, then it's a first party game.

Explain to me Call of Duty in Japan or Final Fantasy in Asia (outside of Japan). These games were published by PlayStation there.
--> If played on a PlayStation console, then yes that was a first party game.

Explain to me why Microsoft had to buy the Gears Of War IP in order to keep making the games instead of Epic going multiplatform with it.
--> They bought the IP to keep making the game, has nothing to do with first party or not. The first Gears of War was still a MS first party game on X360 even if they didn't own the IP.

Explain to me Mass Effect arriving on PlayStation (with EA publishing it) after being published by Microsoft on X360.
--> It was a first party game on X360. The game on PlayStation is a third party game.

What about LEGO Horizon? From Sony's perspective, is it only 1st party on PlayStation? Isn't it anymore a Sony game on Switch?
--> On PlayStation, it's a first party game. It's a third party game everywhere else.

One criteria : Is the publisher of the game the same entity as the platform the game is played on. If Yes, then it's a first party game. If not, it's third party.

 

[arvfab]

Wrong, for a game to be first party, the platform holder needs to own the IP. Very simple, I bet you might understand it in the future.
--> No. One criteria : Is the publisher of the game the same entity as the platform the game is played on. If Yes, then it's a first party game.

Explain to me Call of Duty in Japan or Final Fantasy in Asia (outside of Japan). These games were published by PlayStation there.
--> If played on a PlayStation console, then yes that was a first party game.

Explain to me why Microsoft had to buy the Gears Of War IP in order to keep making the games instead of Epic going multiplatform with it.
--> They bought the IP to keep making the game, has nothing to do with first party or not. The first Gears of War was still a MS first party game on X360 even if they didn't own the IP.

Explain to me Mass Effect arriving on PlayStation (with EA publishing it) after being published by Microsoft on X360.
--> It was a first party game on X360. The game on PlayStation is a third party game.

What about LEGO Horizon? From Sony's perspective, is it only 1st party on PlayStation? Isn't it anymore a Sony game on Switch?
--> On PlayStation, it's a first party game. It's a third party game everywhere else.

One criteria : Is the publisher of the game the same entity as the platform the game is played on. If Yes, then it's a first party game. If not, it's third party.

Thank you for confirming with me that you are clueless. Have a good day.

 

[Hezekiah]

Very wrong implication.

A publisher can publish a game without owning the IP, and if that publisher is a platform holder, it means the game is still 3rd party. IP ownership determines if a game is 1st party or not.

Example: PlayStation was the publisher for Call of Duty in Japan for many entries. It was still a 3rd party game.

Another example: Microsoft published Mass Effect in the past. It was still a (timed exclusive) 3rd party game.

Another Example: Sumo developed Sackboy Adventures, an IP which belongs to Sony. It was a 1st party game.

Exactly. Sony owns the Helldivers IP but you still have idiots claiming HD2 isn't first-party.

 

[Gods&Monsters]

It Takes Two sold so well because its momentum was carried across multiple platforms. If Astro Bot wins GOTY it needs to be ported to other platforms and get a major ad campaign.

That would upset some fanboys, but it would be great for Team Asobo and the Astro Bot IP.

PS5 exclusive its going to top out probably at 5 or 6 million units. If ported to the Switch, Switch 2, PS4, and PC... It would probably have the chance to do closer to 15-20 million units. The difference is night and day...

How can you say that after the massive underperformance of Horizon Remastered and Lego Horizon. Going multiplat for this IP completely killed any hype.

Horizon Remastered is number 282 on Steam, HFW sold less than 500k and Lego number 500+. It's dead. Zero growth.

The first Horizon will forever be the best-selling game as a new IP exclusive.

 

[ethomaz]

Not true. A first party title is one owned by a company, developed by an in-house studio. Death Stranding 2 is a 2nd party game. Rise of Ronin is 2nd party. Stellar blade as well.

Actually first party titles means the IP is first party…. it doesn’t matter who developed it.

Demons Souls, The Lat Guardian, Bloodborne are first-party even not having first party studio involvement.

Death Stranding was first party at release… today not anymore.

 

[Muddasar]

Actually first party titles means the IP is first party…. it doesn’t matter who developed it.

Demons Souls, The Lat Giardian, Bloodborne are first-party even not have first party studio involvement.

Death Stranding was first party at release… today not anymore.

Exactly.

Metroid Dread is First Party despite being developed by MercuryStream.

Same goes for LBP3, Sackboy and Helldivers 2.

 

[Old Gamer]

Exactly. Sony owns the Helldivers IP but you still have idiots claiming HD2 isn't first-party.

Same for Bloodborne. It's first party, period.

 

[Yurinka]

Exactly. Sony owns the Helldivers IP but you still have idiots claiming HD2 isn't first-party.

Actually first party titles means the IP is first party…. it doesn’t matter who developed it.

Demons Souls, The Lat Guardian, Bloodborne are first-party even not having first party studio involvement.

Death Stranding was first party at release… today not anymore.

A game is first party when it's published by the platform holder, independently if that platform holder owns the IP or not.

Stellar Blade, Helldivers 2, Death Stranding and Uncharted are PlayStation first party games because Sony published them. On PC they are third party because Sony doesn't own PC/Steam.

Demon's Souls, Bloodborne and Death Stranding were published and supported by the XDEV team of Japan Studio. So since they are published by Sony they are first party games.

The Last Guardian was a game internally developed and published by Japan Studio like Knack, Gravity Rush or Astro Bot. Even if around a dozen or so Japan Studio folks (out of over 500 people who worked in the game) left/were fired at the later part of the development and completed their job from GenDesign. It's published by Sony, so it's a first party game.

Hi-Fi Rush is first party on Xbox, third party on PlayStation. Because it's published by the platform holder in Xbox but not in PlayStation.

Owning the IP isn't related to be first party or not. 2nd party games, which also are 1st party games, often use IPs not owned by the platform holder. And there are first party games like Spider-Man 2 or Wolverine, who use licensed IPs not owned by the platform holder.

Who owns the IP is the one who decides if they make ports, sequels, merchandising, adaptations etc. of that IP and who has the last word about it. And gets whatever revenue share generated by these products according to whatever they negogiate in each case.