What really is first party nowadays? Definition of first/second/third party games.

arvfab

Slayer of Colossi
23 Jun 2022
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In public documents they have signed a 2nd party contract. Not my words, Sony's and Shift Up.
I agree IP ownership moves closer to 1st party line, none closer to 3rd party line if you get more intricate in the 2nd party discourse.

There's a grey area in the middle and variables in contractual obligations like IP ownership where people have discussions and there are definitions within, I am not here to argue about that cause it gets convoluted. For example Insomniac makes SM games. It's exclusive and by an owned studio, but Disney can potentially take the license away.

Of course we don't know the details of the deal, and I know that Shift-Up mentioned the "2nd party agreement" with Sony, but it's also the first time they entered such an agreement, therefore it's very possible it was just bad wording. On the other hand we have two things pointing that the IP is Shift-Up's and therefore the game being 3rd party:


And:

© 2024 SHIFT UP Corporation. All rights reserved. Published by Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC.


While if we look at Helldivers 2 we have:

©2024 Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC. Developed by Arrowhead Game Studios AB. Helldivers is a registered trademark of Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC and related companies in the U.S. and other countries.


And:

 

Hezekiah

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23 Jul 2022
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It does lol
You are wrong… a published game by Sony can indeed be 3rd-party.
And that has nothing to do with what you think about me.
That does t change anything at all.
You continue being wrong no matter what you believe I’m…
If you think this makes sense no wonder you're coming out with so much nonsense 😅
 

ethomaz

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ethomaz
On cloud cuckoo land, yes.
Nope.

Like I said the truth is there is games published by Sony that are 3rd-parry.

You are just creating wrong narratives.
They bullshit that being published by Sony makes them first-party is suck nonsense that is very dumb to see somebody claiming it lol
 
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Hezekiah

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Nope.

Like I said the truth is there is games published by Sony that are 3rd-parry.

You are just creating wrong narratives.
They bullshit that being published by Sony makes them first-party is suck nonsense that is very dumb to see somebody claiming it lol
Another nonsensical post. "Suck nonsense" - people will lose braincells reading this shite.

Have you been drinking heavily, or maybe this is the norm. Hard to tell 😄
 

ethomaz

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Another nonsensical post. "Suck nonsense" - people will lose braincells reading this shite.

Have you been drinking heavily, or maybe this is the norm. Hard to tell 😄
Again you are wrong…

Like I said the truth is there are games published by Sony that are 3rd-parry.

You come here with these weird and fake takes lol
You saying anything about me has zero weight in the reality.
 

CrackmanNL

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Of course we don't know the details of the deal, and I know that Shift-Up mentioned the "2nd party agreement" with Sony, but it's also the first time they entered such an agreement, therefore it's very possible it was just bad wording. On the other hand we have two things pointing that the IP is Shift-Up's and therefore the game being 3rd party:
I doubt it was bad wording since it's official press release but also I did not disagree about IP ownership, just that there is a broad grey area with variables that are not one and the same. That's why I gave that Spiderman example.

I agree IP ownership moves closer to 1st party line, none closer to 3rd party line if you get more intricate in the 2nd party discourse.
 
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Ezekiel

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We've had Layden on record on WUPS explaining the differences. I've posted this before not going to bother with the discussion, timestamp @17:37

Shift Up has an official 2nd party contract with Sony.


We will have the Game Awards soon to confirm with PS domination that it's over as well.
He's talking about first/second/third party studios, which is a completely different thing and a misnomer in my opinion.

A first party game is a game that is published from an entity on the platform belonging to that same entity. That's all there is to it.

The whole "first party" monicker got completely distorted from people who wanted to distinguish games made by a platform owner studio or not, and then "second party" term got invented to make the distinction.

Studio ownership has nothing to do with it.

IP ownership has nothing to do with it.


Whether Sony devs helped the studio make the game or not, is completely irrelevant.


For example :
Bloodborne is a first party game on PS4/PS5. Why? Because SIE publishes the game on PSN.
SIE publisher = PSN storefront --> First party game

If the game ever gets ported to Steam, the game would be a third party game from the perspective of Steam.
SIE publisher =/= Steam storefront --> Third party game

Think about it, how does it make sense for a Steam player to buy a SIE published game on Steam and call it a "first party" game? It doesn't make sense, because the only first party games on Steam are the Valve published ones. You can say it is a "Sony made" game, but not that it is a first party game.


Talking about who owns the studio and Sony's involvement in the development and who owns the IP are all different subjects that has nothing to do with what a first or third party game is.


If you go to Costco, and you buy a bag of Kirkland branded almonds, that is a "first party" product. If Costco sold Kirkland products at Walmart, from Walmart's point of view, it is a "third party" product. If Walmart sold Great Value branded products at Costco, that would be a "third party" product from Costco's point of view, but the same product sold in a Walmart is a "first party" product.

Costco doesn't have to own the farm from which the almonds were made, they don't need to have farmers be Costco employees, they don't need to have patents for the production of almonds, they just need to distribute it in their store. That's it.


Stellar Blade is a first party game on PSN
Rise of the Ronin is a first party game on PSN
Astro Bot is a first party game on PSN
FF7 Rebirth is a third party game on PSN
Until Dawn Remake is a first party game on PSN, but a third party game on Steam
 

arvfab

Slayer of Colossi
23 Jun 2022
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He's talking about first/second/third party studios, which is a completely different thing and a misnomer in my opinion.

A first party game is a game that is published from an entity on the platform belonging to that same entity. That's all there is to it.

The whole "first party" monicker got completely distorted from people who wanted to distinguish games made by a platform owner studio or not, and then "second party" term got invented to make the distinction.

Studio ownership has nothing to do with it.

IP ownership has nothing to do with it.


Whether Sony devs helped the studio make the game or not, is completely irrelevant.


For example :
Bloodborne is a first party game on PS4/PS5. Why? Because SIE publishes the game on PSN.
SIE publisher = PSN storefront --> First party game

If the game ever gets ported to Steam, the game would be a third party game from the perspective of Steam.
SIE publisher =/= Steam storefront --> Third party game

Think about it, how does it make sense for a Steam player to buy a SIE published game on Steam and call it a "first party" game? It doesn't make sense, because the only first party games on Steam are the Valve published ones. You can say it is a "Sony made" game, but not that it is a first party game.


Talking about who owns the studio and Sony's involvement in the development and who owns the IP are all different subjects that has nothing to do with what a first or third party game is.


If you go to Costco, and you buy a bag of Kirkland branded almonds, that is a "first party" product. If Costco sold Kirkland products at Walmart, from Walmart's point of view, it is a "third party" product. If Walmart sold Great Value branded products at Costco, that would be a "third party" product from Costco's point of view, but the same product sold in a Walmart is a "first party" product.

Costco doesn't have to own the farm from which the almonds were made, they don't need to have farmers be Costco employees, they don't need to have patents for the production of almonds, they just need to distribute it in their store. That's it.


Stellar Blade is a first party game on PSN
Rise of the Ronin is a first party game on PSN
Astro Bot is a first party game on PSN
FF7 Rebirth is a third party game on PSN
Until Dawn Remake is a first party game on PSN, but a third party game on Steam

Schrödinger's game: you only know if a game is a Playstation 1st party title, once you look at the platform it's running on. Ridiculous.

Might make up other terms to determine it. 1st party on Mondays, Wednesday and Fridays. If it's full-moon, also on a Sunday, otherwise it depends on what you ate the day before.
 
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akira__

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now kiss GIF
 

akira__

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It's just games dude.

But in general if you're correct, let being right be your weapon of choice.

And keep it fun, reading a forum isn't fun like this.

Not speaking of one person, just in general.
 

Hezekiah

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23 Jul 2022
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Again you are wrong…

Like I said the truth is there are games published by Sony that are 3rd-parry.

You come here with these weird and fake takes lol
You saying anything about me has zero weight in the reality.
Your credibility is zero, and your posts today embarrassing.