There’s no mention of PC ports in Sony's latest financial report

Kokoloko

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Good. Hopefully back to Only on Playstation slogan. You know, like the last 4 generations of success.

Look at Nintendo, and look at Xbox.
Im know which method I would preder.

People who dont own a PS and love PC arent Playstation fans. Gaas games I accept, last generation scraps just about but I prefer not to
 
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anonpuffs

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Good. Hopefully back to Only on Playstation slogan. You know, like the last 4 generations of success.

Look at Nintendo, and look at Xbox.
Im know which method I would preder.

People who dont own a PS and love PC arent Playstation fans. Gaas games I accept, last generation scraps just about but I prefer not to
There's something to be said for being able to play the games at 120fps and native 4k. But I do think that PS should limit ports to games that have sequels coming out soon or older previous gen games.
 
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KnittedKnight

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I sympathize with OP but this says nothing. The cancer is still there, and it has done quite the damage, although not to its full metastasizing potential. Since the market is consolidating at Xbox's expense, everything looks "fine" hardware wise - for now, both Sony and Nintendo will continue to eat at Xbox's install base, albeit way too slow (partly due to MS's coffer infusions and Sony's stupid policies). PC however is also eating, and on balance the biggest winner here, and that is a MS win long term. Could have easily gunned for 150 mill consoles this lifecycle with the state of the console-hardware competition but even at the "record pace" we're all reminded off by cheerleaders and marketing I don't think we'll get there.

Once folks look at the PS install base as what it should be, 150m average, back to the PS2 days normal, with Xbox thoroughly diminished or gone from the market all together you'll realize the folly of supporting a direct competitor in PC. From 150m and forward you have to eat into PC market share, and for that you'll need competitive practices targeted directly at Valve (Steam) - period. These practices will naturally be exclusionary in nature, and hard nosed, not inclusive. The realm that this takes place is not just on the hardware side but also on the content war side (and third parties do have to make a choice for priority market access). It's simple business fundamentals. The idea that you can rewrite the book on how shit works is the biggest idiotic folly you'll ever see from any exec - who, in spouting such stupidity, should outright be dismissed from the job on the spot. Unfortunately in the real world, idiots do make it up high and tank "good things" all the time. The PlayStation ecosystem rests on PlayStation hardware - just like the Apple ecosystem rests on iPhone's for example. Compromising is defeat, is a lack of ideas, mediocrity and brain rot - that is currently characteristic of current PlayStation leadership.
 
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Box

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I sympathize with OP but this says nothing. The cancer is still there, and it has done quite the damage, although not to its full metastasizing potential. Since the market is consolidating at Xbox's expense, everything looks "fine" hardware wise - for now, both Sony and Nintendo will continue to eat at Xbox's install base, albeit way too slow (partly due to MS's coffer infusions and Sony's stupid policies). PC however is also eating, and on balance the biggest winner here, and that is a MS win long term. Could have easily gunned for 150 mill consoles this lifecycle with the state of the console-hardware competition but even at the "record pace" we're all reminded off by cheerleaders and marketing I don't think we'll get there.

Once folks look at the PS install base as what it should be, 150m average, back to the PS2 days normal, with Xbox thoroughly diminished or gone from the market all together you'll realize the folly of supporting a direct competitor in PC. From 150m and forward you have to eat into PC market share, and for that you'll need competitive practices targeted directly at Valve (Steam) - period. These practices will naturally be exclusionary in nature, and hard nosed, not inclusive. The realm that this takes place is not just on the hardware side but also on the content war side (and third parties do have to make a choice for priority market access). It's simple business fundamentals. The idea that you can rewrite the book on how shit works is the biggest idiotic folly you'll ever see from any exec - who, in spouting such stupidity, should outright be dismissed from the job on the spot. Unfortunately in the real world, idiots do make it up high and tank "good things" all the time. The PlayStation ecosystem rests on PlayStation hardware - just like the Apple ecosystem rests on iPhone's for example. Compromising is defeat, is a lack of ideas, mediocrity and brain rot - that is currently characteristic of current PlayStation leadership.

Mobile, especially Apple completely dwarf all 3 consoles and PC combined in terms of profits.

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much money Apple gaming makes per year.
 
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Kokoloko

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Already been happening in clear view with Horizon Forbidden West and now Spiderman 2.
Correct.
I know a few people including my brother who said they will wait for the PC version for games like FF16, Horizon, Returnal and Spiderman 2.
Which means, LESS profits. Because steam will taking a percentage.

There might be little improve in profits margins at first but overall its not gonna be good.
Especially when a certain percentage of PS fans go fully PC and that means all those 3rd party purchases will be on steam and not on PSN.

Hermen wanted games day 1 on PC too, retarded he is
 

JAHGamer

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There's something to be said for being able to play the games at 120fps and native 4k. But I do think that PS should limit ports to games that have sequels coming out soon or older previous gen games.
Preservation is the only good argument for PC ports imo, but 99% of console games are already preserved without PC ports through emulation so a real port isn't even necessary. But if they want to port purely for the sake of preservation, it should only be done at the end of a generation.
He's Jim's son
Yea, PlayStation is always perfect and can do no wrong in his eyes 🤦‍♂️ he's like the PS version of TimDog
 

Yurinka

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Huh? I don’t even get what you’re trying to say 🤦‍♂️ What did I lie about?
Was pc mentioned by any of the speakers in the last call? NO!!! Was PC mentioned by speakers in previous calls? YES!! I think you need new reading glasses

In that post you lie in these things, saying them when you know they aren't the case:
  • I'm supposed to blindly type pointless paragraphs without reading the posts I reply
  • Not talking about PC performance in their conference call is supposed to be a contrast from previous earnings calls, when you they never shared PC sales numbers in their conference call that weren't already previously included in the report they were showing in that session/day
 

JAHGamer

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In that post you lie in these things, saying them when you know they aren't the case:
  • I'm supposed to blindly type pointless paragraphs without reading the posts I reply
  • Not talking about PC performance in their conference call is supposed to be a contrast from previous earnings calls, when you they never shared PC sales numbers in their conference call that weren't already previously included in the report they were showing in that session/day
No I didn’t lie at all, once again you didn’t read what I said. I said the SPEAKERS, as in when they were SPEAKING…you know that thing people do where they open their mouth and some sounds come out? Yeah, that.

It’s like talking to a brick wall 😐
 

Yurinka

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Correct.
I know a few people including my brother who said they will wait for the PC version for games like FF16, Horizon, Returnal and Spiderman 2.
Which means, LESS profits. Because steam will taking a percentage.

There might be little improve in profits margins at first but overall its not gonna be good.
Especially when a certain percentage of PS fans go fully PC and that means all those 3rd party purchases will be on steam and not on PSN.

Hermen wanted games day 1 on PC too, retarded he is
A few people may skip the PS5 version to get the PC version. But there's people who buy both, people who still only buy the PS5 version and people who buy the PC version and never will buy a console. There may even some people who discovers Sony games playing them for the first time in PC and may buy a console to play all the other ones not ported and to avoid having to wait for them to be ported -if the ever get ported-.

If you look at their results, they keep improving their game sales on both consoles and PC in addition to console hardware sales, game subs and accesories. They grow in all areas, so PC sales are on top of the PS5 ones, aren't replacing them.

SIE made with their games $245M outisde PS in the first half of the current year, and $447M in the previous fiscal year. A combined of $692M on top of what they make on PS (in PS they also make more money than before, so leading to think it isn't stealing sales from there and mostly sales are from players who primarly buy in the other platforms like PC).

Ports are very cheap to make compared to making a brand new AAA game, and gave them almost $700M in a year and half. These are hundreds of millions of extra profit on top of what they make on console, hundreds of millions that now can be reinvested on making more new games.

Already been happening in clear view with Horizon Forbidden West and now Spiderman 2.

Also Shawn Layden never focused on bringing the big marquee games to PC, it was the side games like Predators: Hunting Grounds. I'm almost convinced now that part of the reason he abruptly left SIE was because some internally pushed to bring the marquee games to PC and Layden probably saw what a bad idea that would be long-term for the console's value proposition.

Hence, the sudden exit in whatever power struggle ensued. Jim Ryan, who was mainly focused on short-term financial gains, didn't see an issue with porting the marquee non-GaaS titles, but the long-term effects of that pattern at the current (or accelerated) cadence won't manifest more fully until new hardware launches such as the PlayStation 6.
HFW had a better launch on PS5 than HZD and Spider-Man 2 had a a better launch n PS than Spider-Man 1 had. So if the PC ports of the first games had any effect on the PS5 sales of the sequel was to improve them.

Shawn Layden said he was the one who decided who bring the big marquee games to PC (and his team, obviously: when he was chairman, the president of Worldwide Studios was Shuhei Yoshida) and explained why,. So he didn't leave because of this.

In many cases, before making a big move they make different tests of all kinds before making the big move: with smaller products, testing different product types (in this case genres), diferent pricings, (not for this example) releasing first only in one or a few contries before doing it worldwide, etc.

I think that if there was a power struggle, was because Shawn maybe wanted to replace Yoshida as head of PS Studios, but Sony prefered to have instead someone with the profile of Yoshida: with previous experience producing games and leading gamedev teams, something Shawn didn't have. Or maybe Shawn wanted to be the next SIE CEO, but Sony decided that it twas better idea to put the salesman executive of Europe than the one from USA, because the one from Europe was way more successfult at doing his job.
 
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Vertigo

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Probably because there is nothing to say.
We already know their PC sales are way below the their estimate target and it was not just worst because Destiny 2 did better than expected in PC.

I see that brought up but Destiny revenues would then need to be split across console and pc etc. I would not be surprised if it didn’t include destiny as Bungie might be reported on separately from PlayStation studios. Depends on the language used in the documents (haven’t seen them). I mention this because I have never actually seen Bungie revenues ever reported…
 
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Correct.
I know a few people including my brother who said they will wait for the PC version for games like FF16, Horizon, Returnal and Spiderman 2.
Which means, LESS profits. Because steam will taking a percentage.

There might be little improve in profits margins at first but overall its not gonna be good.
Especially when a certain percentage of PS fans go fully PC and that means all those 3rd party purchases will be on steam and not on PSN.

Hermen wanted games day 1 on PC too, retarded he is

Conversely there are people out there who bought Spider-man remastered on PC loved it, got hyped watching trailers for Spider-man 2 and plan to buy a PS5 to play it. That FOMO is strong especially with the younger generation who feel they don’t want to miss out.

From a Sony point of view any sale from the much larger PC market is a bonus.

Do you have source for Herman wanting day 1 on PC?
 

ethomaz

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I see that brought up but Destiny revenues would then need to be split across console and pc etc. I would not be surprised if it didn’t include destiny as Bungie might be reported on separately from PlayStation studios. Depends on the language used in the documents (haven’t seen them). I mention this because I have never actually seen Bungie revenues ever reported…
I won’t get in the docs right now but they included Bungie in last fiscal year (April 22 to Mar 23).

They made $250 million from PC first party (including Bungie) that was $50 million below their forecast.

Spider Man Remastered PC did 1.5 million units, $52 million in revenue.

TLOU PC did 368k, $15.5 million… I think that includes April 23 but I need to check (so for the FY ending in March 23 it is probably a. bit lower).

Maybe they expected better TLOU PC sales? I don’t know.

The only think I know is that the new forecast for PC ending in March 24 is $450 million and I don’t think they will reach it.
 
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PS5 sales won't nosedive in a single year. But you'll see a small, slowly increasing drop in the tail end within the latter years of the gen. And, depending on how aggressive the PC strategy establishes itself by the next gen, you'll see quite slower PS6 adoption vs. PS5 and PS4.

Why? Because the early adopters will have been conditioned to buy into PC, especially if they don't have FOMO, or if cross-gen will be persistent for the first couple of years, or by some crazy move Sony does Day 1 for non-GaaS titles to PC. Like I said, you won't see the decline until a few years after it's set in, same with Xbox.

You should ask Phil Spencer how difficult it is to get PlayStation fans to leave their digital game library.

What you’re suggesting would mean PS fans not only leaving their library and community behind but also choosing to wait years after release for single player PS games and choosing to pay way more for the PS6 equivalent PC hardware.

PS5 sales will decline over the course of the generation like any hardware gen but unless there’s another pandemic PS6 will have a bigger launch than PS5.

No launch pandemic, declining Xbox sales plus continued push in places like China and India will guarantee it.

it’s been almost 4 years of PlayStation PC releases - a good period of time to see any negative effects on hardware demand. Sony again just reiterated their highest fiscal year hardware forecast in PlayStation history.
 

Vertigo

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Day one pc doesn’t make sense for anything other than multiplayer. MP games will be scaled to run on a variety of machines (maybe even including ps4 spec). Their single player games will not. They will guaranteed push ps5.

Console launch allows devs to prioritize and optimize engine to console standard for the mass market release.

And piracy is a risk issue they can avoid with console launch. I don’t see these ports as happening until they’ve made their money already on console.

Of course things can change once budgets start demanding even more players and more dollars.
 
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Yurinka

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Probably because there is nothing to say.
We already know their PC sales are way below the their estimate target and it was not just worst because Destiny 2 did better than expected in PC.
I see that brought up but Destiny revenues would then need to be split across console and pc etc. I would not be surprised if it didn’t include destiny as Bungie might be reported on separately from PlayStation studios. Depends on the language used in the documents (haven’t seen them). I mention this because I have never actually seen Bungie revenues ever reported…
I won’t get in the docs right now but they included Bungie in last fiscal year (April 22 to Mar 23).

They made $250 million from PC first party (including Bungie) that was $50 million below their forecast.

Spider Man Remastered PC did 1.5 million units, $52 million in revenue.

TLOU PC did 368k, $15.5 million… I think that includes April 23 but I need to check (so for the FY ending in March 23 it is probably a. bit lower).

Maybe they expected better TLOU PC sales? I don’t know.

The only think I know is that the new forecast for PC ending in March 24 is $450 million and I don’t think they will reach it.
Day one pc doesn’t make sense for anything other than multiplayer. MP games will be scaled to run on a variety of machines (maybe even including ps4 spec). Their single player games will not. They will guaranteed push ps5.

Console launch allows devs to prioritize and optimize engine to console standard for the mass market release.

And piracy is a risk issue they can avoid with console launch. I don’t see these ports as happening until they’ve made their money already on console.

Of course things can change once budgets start demanding even more players and more dollars.
According to Sony, SIE's first party games in non-PS platforms (as I remember PC + MLB Switch + Destiny 2 & MLB XBox), made 67725M yen ($446,99M) in FY22. And 37178M yen ($245,37M) in H1 FY23, 54.38% up YoY vs H1 FY22.

So they did $692.36M in a year and a half:

image.png

They reported in this quarterly report what they report in the quarterly reports (less detailed than the yearly reports): the revenue of each segment. Bungie, like all the other fully owned SIE subsidiaries, is reported together with the rest of the fully owned subsidiaries in the SIE fiscal reports.

Starting in the previous quarter, they moved the SIE game sales made outside PS (so mostly PC) away from the "others" segment (which now is mostly accesories) to become the "other software" segment. They also adapted the FY22 quarters to this new method in the table.

image.png


Regarding specifically PC games, pretty likely the $50M they missed of their forecast for FY22 were due to the delay of Returnal PC and TLOU1 PC, which ended being released at the very end of the FY22. So pretty likely they moved these $50M to their FY23 estimate.

We also have to consider this $250M figure includes Bungie since their acquisition was completed (July 15 2022), so it doesn't include Bungie's PC sales for Q1 FY22 and a small portion of Q2 FY22, which may have (or maybe not) been added to the Q2 FY23 report table posted below. This slide is from their yearly Business Segments Report 2023 published late May 2023, when won't post their next yearly Business Segments report until May 2024:

image.png


For the PS Studios single player games being ported to PC (not all of the PS Studios catalog), Hermen said that they are happy with their current delay from the original PS release, which is around 2 years or more. Or in case of remasters/remakes, maybe closer to the remaster/remake (not the original game) release of around a year.

Regarding GaaS, he said it will depend on the game but that they considered that some GaaS may release day one on PC (case of all Bungie games, which also will be released day one on Xbox, and also maybe the case of some other GaaS game that -at least started- as 2nd party).
 
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Systemshock2023

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Sometimes I don't know if folks on this place think as gamers or 85 year old shareholders. Ports on PC are ALWAYS a positive from a gamer perspective.

What's the negative? a few butthurt enthusiasts that already have gaming rigs complaining because this renders their console (a low value device for them already) even more useless? Just sell it and have some peace of mind but don't get in the way of progress.

Also I find some contradiction on the reasoning Those ports don't sell much right? Then they don't have much of an impact according to folks here.

But on the other hand they are seen as a "menace" because "one day" when the ps6 launches, maybe 40 to 50M users will stop buying consoles to go PC...

Yeah right... Jimmy, your average console user who plays COD, Fortnite, FIFA, GTA and a couple of first party games will build a PC, spend more money and learn to game on PC. Just to get those first party games 2 years later, if ever, and at full price, when they are heavily discounted or free on plus by then...
 

Satoru

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Sometimes I don't know if folks on this place think as gamers or 85 year old shareholders. Ports on PC are ALWAYS a positive from a gamer perspective.

Focusing on developing for a single platform ensures maximum compatibility and that the game is the best it can't be. This is not the case when developing for multiple platforms and hundreds or thousands of possible configurations.

There's a reason why PS Studios games have been releasing way more buggy than last gen - the ongoing focus in making sure games are PC compatible, as well as the split development and QA time for other platforms.

If you want console exclusives, buy a console, the same way if you want MacOS you buy a Mac.

Finally, these games are not selling on well PC anyway, and are pirated way more than they are purchased. So it becomes a case where PC port beggars want the game not to pay for it, but to illegally download it.