Key example of unnecessary bloat in PlayStation Studios

[nongkris]

Imagine making a thread about bloat with Insomniac, one of the industry's most productive developers who have multiple teams outputting multiple games.

*disregard wolverine 2024 date

Instead of Bungie, the 3 billion dollar loss that is the actually cause of Playstation's problems.

It's funny one moment I can get called an xbot on this forum because I hate Sony's PC strategy, but even I'm not dumb enough to think that Insomniac is bloated with the output they've given us.

 

[Nimrota]

another horrible take from the jim ryan avatar, first you wanted PS5 to cut their price because Series S has been discounted and losing money, and now you want people from Sony's most valuable and profitable studio fired because you've never wrote a story in your life.

Where would Sony and Insomniac be without 10+ extra writers?? Do these people even want Sony to succeed??? Sell Bungie and hire 900 writers back and we will start seeing PS2 numbers!!!

All sarcasm if you didn't get it. Game studios do have too much bloat, most companies do, so periodic culls are a good thing for efficiency. I understand it's a faux pas to state this openly since dev worship is so common, but it's the reality.

 

[ApolloHelios]

I saw you comment in other thread, so 900 community managers whole London studio was made by community managers

Fired 900 people. Blowing out of proportion, yeahh, noooo.

It's not my problem you have reading comprehension problem. London is closed and that is a big chunk, smaller chunks from other first party studios come from community managers. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[nongkris]

Where would Sony and Insomniac be without 10+ extra writers?? Do these people even want Sony to succeed??? Sell Bungie and hire 900 writers back and we will start seeing PS2 numbers!!!

All sarcasm if you didn't get it. Game studios do have too much bloat, most companies do, so periodic culls are a good thing for efficiency. I understand it's a faux pas to state this openly since dev worship is so common, but it's the reality.

Using your logic, 10 extra writers from this unverified twitter account is not "bloat". You guys are bootlicking large corporations that do layoffs instead of admitting they're making money hand over fist and are chasing endless growth that doesn't exist.

Also love how your first paragraph is responding to made up comments since you can't actually refute the productivity of insomniac.

 

[Gediminas]

It's not my problem you have reading comprehension problem. London is closed and that is a big chunk, smaller chunks from other first party studios come from community managers. Welcome to my ignore list.

looking at a few tweets reveals that they cut Community Managers in big first party studios, so it's not exactly impacting the development of the games as they're not truly "devs".

Congrats beating yourself

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

Remove all DEI related roles the games will be made much faster and they will be better!

 

[nongkris]

Remove all DEI related roles the games will be made much faster and they will be better!

obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Shmunter]

Time to shutter the modern invention that are the Diversity & Inclusion parts of these orgs. Add nothing to the bottom line while costing millions, compounded with racist hiring practices for vanity instead of productivity.

Then, AI is inevitable - these restructures aim to lean in to these aspects. The jobs aren’t coming back this time. Things are a changing.

 

[Loy310]

Seems they forgot they are a business, over thunk the development of some of their recent games. You dont need all these writers

 

[nongkris]

Time to shutter the modern invention that are the Diversity & Inclusion parts of these orgs. Add nothing to the bottom line while costing millions, compounded with racist hiring practices for vanity instead of productivity.

Then, AI is inevitable - these restructures aim to lean in to these aspects. The jobs aren’t coming back this time. Things are a changing.

This place has 4chan tier commentary.

 

[Nimrota]

Using your logic, 10 extra writers from this unverified twitter account is not "bloat". You guys are bootlicking large corporations that do layoffs instead of admitting they're making money hand over fist and are chasing endless growth that doesn't exist.

Also love how your first paragraph is responding to made up comments since you can't actually refute the productivity of insomniac.

Sure I don't particularly care that companies do lay offs because I believe it's a rational act. We already knew Sony's margins are terrible, reducing employee count fixes this to a degree. Doubly so when the people being laid off are less important workers, such as community managers or writers since the effect on the core product is negligible.

As for endless growth you're correct it doesn't exist inasmuch as exponentialism doesn't exist in a market, however many people forget that utilisation of resources due to technological change increases scope of the market, hence providing growth that didn't exist previously. Imagine saying "Endless growth doesn't exist" in 1800 because you're worried about scarcity and then a century later the then useless silicon is producing computer chips that cost more than the GDP of several nations in 1800. But this broader technological and historical nuance matters little in the face of anti-capitalist wa wa about companies not wanting to go under from high costs and low profits.

It's not a question of whether or not Insomniac is currently productive, it's a question of whether or not Insomniac can be made more productive to help SIE overall. And the answer is likely yes.

 

[Satoru]

they just fired people from Insomniac too, they are bloated, so why you keep writing these dumbass comments?

They are so bloated that I can guarantee that those picking up the slack will work way more for the same pay.

Fuck, I swear some people seem like they don't understand what is happening in the industry.

Layoffs where I worked resulted in something very simple: roles like mine suddenly turned into 3 or 4 roles, with people having to work overtime on shit they don't have expertise, only for the directors plus to get chunky bonuses and us not getting even a raise in two years.

This bloat people keep talking about is actual valuable employees losing their jobs so that executives can line their pockets further.

The industry and the products are becoming more complex, which means you need more people. Companies of course think that 1 person can do the job of 3 and should be grateful if they can deal with rent anywhere near commuting distance.

The stance from the gaming community on layoffs has overall been nothing short of disgusting.

 

[peter42O]

Spider Man 2 writing isn't as good as the first game or even Miles for that matter. And jeez, 14 writers sounds like overkill to me and a situation of too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

[shrike0fth0rns]

This is a direct comparison of the writing credits between Marvels Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2.

I have to say that I find the extra writers and management did not result in a product anywhere near as good as the first games writing.

There’s an argument to be made that having ppl in those positions contributes to the pace that insomniac puts out games that everyone is so great. ND didn’t used to have producers but I think in 2022 Neil said they started hiring producers because it leads to better work flow and takes the pressure off of ppl who have to over see multiple roles.

 

[Bryank75]

Spider Man 2 writing isn't as good as the first game or even Miles for that matter. And jeez, 14 writers sounds like overkill to me and a situation of too many cooks in the kitchen.

Yeah 4 writers is too much, I don't know how you can have any real art left after trying to get consensus from so many people... I enjoyed the game but not as much as the first.

If one writer can create a masterpiece book, all they need is one good writer for the story and maybe a handful for dialogue. IMO

 

[Muddasar]

Spider Man 2 writing isn't as good as the first game or even Miles for that matter. And jeez, 14 writers sounds like overkill to me and a situation of too many cooks in the kitchen.

Exactly what I was thinking.

You only need one cook. Keep the best one.

Weird to have so many writers for one game. Heck even for several games that is too many.

 

[Sircaw]

They are so bloated that I can guarantee that those picking up the slack will work way more for the same pay.

Fuck, I swear some people seem like they don't understand what is happening in the industry.

Layoffs where I worked resulted in something very simple: roles like mine suddenly turned into 3 or 4 roles, with people having to work overtime on shit they don't have expertise, only for the directors plus to get chunky bonuses and us not getting even a raise in two years.

This bloat people keep talking about is actual valuable employees losing their jobs so that executives can line their pockets further.

The industry and the products are becoming more complex, which means you need more people. Companies of course think that 1 person can do the job of 3 and should be grateful if they can deal with rent anywhere near commuting distance.

The stance from the gaming community on layoffs has overall been nothing short of disgusting.

This is slightly off-topic, but to your point.

I did my mechanical engineering apprenticeship from age 15-21, i worked as a fitter and maintenance engineer, working on things like pumps, hydraulics, and big machinery. I was also trained in using lathes, shapers, milling machines etc etc.

I had three other friends at the time; 2 were electricians, and another was a boiler maker; He worked with metal making etc., welding, cutting, etc.

A few years later, they started doing away with teaching solo electrical and fitting technicians, instead combining the trades into one multi-classed journeyman called a millwright.

Boilermakers then got combined with plumbers.

Most of the companies were now only hiring millwrights, not wanting the solo classes anymore, and yet the pay only went up a small fraction.

They expect people nowadays to sometimes do like 2-3 jobs for 1 person's pay.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Is that real?

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

Using your logic, 10 extra writers from this unverified twitter account is not "bloat". You guys are bootlicking large corporations that do layoffs instead of admitting they're making money hand over fist and are chasing endless growth that doesn't exist.

Also love how your first paragraph is responding to made up comments since you can't actually refute the productivity of insomniac.

Large corporations over hire all the time.

 

[Nimrota]

Yeah 4 writers is too much, I don't know how you can have any real art left after trying to get consensus from so many people... I enjoyed the game but not as much as the first.

If one writer can create a masterpiece book, all they need is one good writer for the story and maybe a handful for dialogue. IMO

Obviously "writing" has different components but the fact that games like Elden Ring, or the Yakuza games which often have 2-3 writers, are successful is indicative that more is not necessarily better.