Are Turn-Based Purists The "Boomers" Of Gaming?

[Box]

I honestly don't know how anyone can think controlling a static character through a menu and having to wait turns to attack is better than having full directional control over a character. I think it's the same type of person that believes anything "old" is better just because it's old, like a "everything is better back in my day" boomer take

Some people think turn-based=rpg and games can't be a rpg if its not like old games... these people are boomers, yea. But if you look at FF, they always tried to evolve the combat as the technology became more advanced. Turn-based became atb, atb became real time with XII, then you have XIII which is fast paced and unique, it was too fast paced to control a party of 3 so they made the combat automatic with job changing on the fly, added stagger and such.

 

[Killer_Sakoman]

Turn based was a result of hardware limitation. I don't know why people want it back. Back during PS1 days we always wanted to see these combat become real time where we can control the character.

 

[Johnic]

I'd rather have FF remain turn based than go with the clusterfuck that was the FFVII remake combat. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too with that one.

And considering both Yakuza and Persona sold very well and were lauded as excellent games, I'm not sure your argument holds water. It's simply a different gameplay experience. I'm playing the Front Mission remake now, a turn based game and I'd gladly take that over the clusterfuck that was Front Mission Evolved. So yeah, free movement doesn;t always make for a better game. It's like people who can't stand turn based gameplay have ADD and can't spend more than 2 seconds not pressing a button.

P.S.

Also, using boomer in any context other than literally describing people born in a specific time period, is cringe.

 

[anonpuffs]

I'd rather have FF remain turn based than go with the clusterfuck that was the FFVII remake combat. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too with that one.

And considering both Yakuza and Persona sold very well and were lauded as excellent games, I'm not sure your argument holds water. It's simply a different gameplay experience. I'm playing the Front Mission remake now, a turn based game and I'd gladly take that over the clusterfuck that was Front Mission Evolved. So yeah, free movement doesn;t always make for a better game. It's like people who can't stand turn based gameplay have ADD and can't spend more than 2 seconds not pressing a button.

But the FF7 Remake combat is the best combat system they've ever made? In fact it's the one system in that game besides graphics where it surpasses the original in every respect, it might be the best jrpg battle system ever made.

 

[Box]

I'd rather have FF remain turn based than go with the clusterfuck that was the FFVII remake combat. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too with that one.

And considering both Yakuza and Persona sold very well and were lauded as excellent games, I'm not sure your argument holds water. It's simply a different gameplay experience. I'm playing the Front Mission remake now, a turn based game and I'd gladly take that over the clusterfuck that was Front Mission Evolved. So yeah, free movement doesn;t always make for a better game. It's like people who can't stand turn based gameplay have ADD and can't spend more than 2 seconds not pressing a button.

P.S.

Also, using boomer in any context other than literally describing people born in a specific time period, is cringe.

Turn based combat in 90% of Jrpgs are not really that good and are often carried by things like job systems and monster collection, they become boring, unbalanced and very VERY repetitive.

Only tactical RPGs and larian studios make turn based combat that are on par with the best combat systems.

I’m fine with it but let’s not act like it’s the peak of gameplay like some nostalgia blinded people love to do.

Enemy is weak to X.
Use X.
I'm about to die.
Cast heal.
I am dead.
Cast revive.

It gets repetitive really quickly

 

[Killer_Sakoman]

But the FF7 Remake combat is the best combat system they've ever made? In fact it's the one system in that game besides graphics where it surpasses the original in every respect, it might be the best jrpg battle system ever made.

Yeah, I think it was good.

 

[daniel5043]

I'd rather have FF remain turn based than go with the clusterfuck that was the FFVII remake combat. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too with that one.

And considering both Yakuza and Persona sold very well and were lauded as excellent games, I'm not sure your argument holds water. It's simply a different gameplay experience. I'm playing the Front Mission remake now, a turn based game and I'd gladly take that over the clusterfuck that was Front Mission Evolved. So yeah, free movement doesn;t always make for a better game. It's like people who can't stand turn based gameplay have ADD and can't spend more than 2 seconds not pressing a button.

P.S.

Also, using boomer in any context other than literally describing people born in a specific time period, is cringe.

What was the problem with ff7 remake combat

 

[Johnic]

What was the problem with ff7 remake combat

@anonpuffs

The issue with FF7 remake is that it tried to appease both the traditional crowd and the one asking for an action battle system.

So we got a game that wants to be an action game but doesn't allow for proper action game movement, all the while trying to ground it in a turn based system.

It tries to be an action game but doesn't offer controls for one. I do have free movement but it's sluggish and the dodge is next to useless. So you end up just sitting there taking hits. On top of all of that, it ties you to a gauge that controls everything you do, including items. It's a half-assed system because it tries to do both and does neither one well.

It's not a good action system because it's too limiting to both your movements and the ATB wait time, and it's not a good turn based system because it puts you in a free movement environment where you're extremely limited in how you can move.

And the magic system is worse than FFXV's which is an accomplishment in itself. Incredibly slow to use and next to useless against aerial targets.

At least with 16 they said screw it and went a full DMC route.

I think it can be tweaked to where it's something decent at least. I'm just not sure how the current battle system got through testing. It's like the testers never fought a flying target.

 

[Gediminas]

Turned Based is highly boring. all games are insta ruined because of it. imagine Spider Man, God of War etc turn based

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

No, they are gen Xers.

And these games are great .

 

[Muddasar]

Not sure why we have to go one extreme to another.

What was wrong with the FF7R battle system?

Perfect balance for me between old and new.

The biggest issue with the FF16 battle system is how one dimensional it is. Being an Action RPG isn’t the issue.

It’s too easy, no tactics or method involved.

Every enemy is killed the exact same way which is crazy to think considering Eikon play a massive role in the game but elemental damage doesn’t.

No status effects either.

 

[Summer Nightmares]

I'm one of the youngest members here I think (26) and I would say no. At least in my opinion.

One form of combat is not superior to the other, they are just meant to be for different kind of games. Of course God of War or Marvel Spiderman would suck if they were turn based, but that is because they are not designed for that, just like X-com, Darkest Dungeon, Civilization or King's Bounty would be completely different if they were not turn based.

 

[Remember_Spinal]

To me, turn based is only fun when its tactical like CRpgs or western stuff.

Final fantasy tactics, good.

Divinity original sin, good.

Dragon quest xi, boring.

Its only fun when theres real strategy involved with how and where you place units and the stuff you can do. Just standing in a row and killing things is not strategic or fun. I’m playing through pixel remaster now and im noticing how much im starting to rely on auto-battle, thats how mindless it is

 

[Jim Ryan]

You guys better start loving turn based games cause I have my eye on a studio that lives making them.

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

I just like the old style FF ATB systems, as well as others of the kind. They're braindead easy and allow you to do crazy stuff with the upgrades.

 

[anonpuffs]

Turn based combat in 90% of Jrpgs are not really that good and are often carried by things like job systems and monster collection, they become boring, unbalanced and very VERY repetitive.

Only tactical RPGs and larian studios make turn based combat that are on par with the best combat systems.

I’m fine with it but let’s not act like it’s the peak of gameplay like some nostalgia blinded people love to do.

Enemy is weak to X.
Use X.
I'm about to die.
Cast heal.
I am dead.
Cast revive.

It gets repetitive really quickly

I've found that outside of tactics/xcom-type games, turn based combat is really boring. Video game makers simply don't understand how to make turn based combat where complexity and depth arises from simple basic rules (e.g. chess is one of the most engaging and long lived games in history and it is the premier example of turn based combat). Instead they shove fake complexity by putting a bunch of systems like elemental weaknesses, status effects, etc, which are impossible to tune and balance for so there's always an optimal move that's immediately obvious.

@anonpuffs

The issue with FF7 remake is that it tried to appease both the traditional crowd and the one asking for an action battle system.

So we got a game that wants to be an action game but doesn't allow for proper action game movement, all the while trying to ground it in a turn based system.

It tries to be an action game but doesn't offer controls for one. I do have free movement but it's sluggish and the dodge is next to useless. So you end up just sitting there taking hits. On top of all of that, it ties you to a gauge that controls everything you do, including items. It's a half-assed system because it tries to do both and does neither one well.

It's not a good action system because it's too limiting to both your movements and the ATB wait time, and it's not a good turn based system because it puts you in a free movement environment where you're extremely limited in how you can move.

And the magic system is worse than FFXV's which is an accomplishment in itself. Incredibly slow to use and next to useless against aerial targets.

At least with 16 they said screw it and went a full DMC route.

I think it can be tweaked to where it's something decent at least. I'm just not sure how the current battle system got through testing. It's like the testers never fought a flying target.

If you really think that then you didn't use materia the right way. Dodging doesn't do nothing, you simply need to understand which attacks can be dodged with what timing, which need to be parried, which need to be counterstanced. At its peak and being properly used the FF7 Remake combat is almost a perfect synthesis of action and turn based combat.

 

[ethomaz]

Turn based was a result of hardware limitation. I don't know why people want it back. Back during PS1 days we always wanted to see these combat become real time where we can control the character.

It was not hardware limitation at all.
It was a way to translate actual table RPG to games… yes table RPG are in turn based with random dices.

The f it was a limiting we should not have action RPGs in the past and to be fair the number of action RPGs even surpassed turn-based RPG in NES or SNES.

 

[ethomaz]

If you really think that then you didn't use materia the right way. Dodging doesn't do nothing, you simply need to understand which attacks can be dodged with what timing, which need to be parried, which need to be counterstanced. At its peak and being properly used the FF7 Remake combat is almost a perfect synthesis of action and turn based combat.

You are right here but I still think the most close to perfect syntheses was FFXIII combat system…. It was really amazing sadly in a bad game that make it not shine enough.

 

[Dr Bass]

It was not hardware limitation at all.
It was a way to translate actual table RPG to games… yes table RPG are in turn based with random dices.

The f it was a limiting we should not have action RPGs in the past and to be fair the number of action RPGs even surpassed turn-based RPG in NES or SNES.

Glad someone gets it. It’s obviously not a hardware limitation because we had action games at the same time!

Silly.

And FF6 still plays way better than 16 and still holds much more challenge. The format of those games is just a style and a choice. Not some hardware limitation which is nonsense.

All of this “this way is the only good way and the rest sucks” is such narrow and limited thinking.

I'm one of the youngest members here I think (26) and I would say no. At least in my opinion.

One form of combat is not superior to the other, they are just meant to be for different kind of games. Of course God of War or Marvel Spiderman would suck if they were turn based, but that is because they are not designed for that, just like X-com, Darkest Dungeon, Civilization or King's Bounty would be completely different if they were not turn based.

Spot on.

 

[daniel5043]

If you really think that then you didn't use materia the right way. Dodging doesn't do nothing, you simply need to understand which attacks can be dodged with what timing, which need to be parried, which need to be counterstanced. At its peak and being properly used the FF7 Remake combat is almost a perfect synthesis of action and turn based combat

Ff7R combat really gets better in hard mode