Console wars are over. Microsoft ramping up 3rd party development. |UP| Chris Dring: Xbox flatlining in EU, Xbox games coming to PS & less focus on GP

Vertigo

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26 Jun 2022
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I’d bet money on Capcom being the one that said Xbox development is a waste. RE8, SF6, RE4… all of this stuff mega flopped on Xbox. Never charted on xbl top 50. Embarrassing stuff if you were tracking it. Also why they took the Exoprimal handout… because they know Xbox users only consume gamepass as they’ve conditioned to do so.
 

FatKaz

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Square enix: How much did we waste porting ff14 to xbox?

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panda-zebra

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This news is blowing up in other places because they were silenced for too long. Still, I think it should get its own thread here too because I get old replies from December 2023 and January when I click here instead of this bomb drop full of new info.
I get that. It's massive news direct from devs to one of the most respected/trusted industry commentators out there. Any one of maybe 3 talking points Dring mentioned could have been thread-worthy in their own right, absolute nukes. 1,000 posts between GAF and ERA already but kinda didn't happen here unless you read the thread title closely, there's too many talking points to cram into one title!
 
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TigerFang

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7 Mar 2024
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How is selling significantly worse than last year considered "doing mostly good"? And their last year sales were abysmal, so doing even worse than that is horrible. All that with zero games until MAY.....while also giving your biggest competitor your games?
By mostly good I mean, Gamepass and the relevance of their relation to the gaming industry.

I won't lie, PS+ game catalog has been very good in alot of ways, but having games launch on your subscription is still very good value.

Microsoft got a very good deal on ABK, ABK's market cap fell a shit ton, which prompted MS to make the move. Also hit its record revenue in 2023, because Diablo IV hit or exceeded its sales target.

For example if ABKs stock didn't fall MS would have to pay a 100 billion to acquire them, so they basically got 1$ while spending 0.70$, this was also primarily cash on hand, so MS just secured its gaming industry forever ticket, while getting billions of revenue every year.

Gamepass, I'm pretty sure will always be valuable and relevant, they really did an amazing job implementing play anywhere and getting gamepass on PC, and we will most likely see a big subscriber jump after Activision games come day 1 on the service.

+ I don't think Xbox hardware has much potential, but I don't think MS will pull the plug at all. Nor do I think the next high-end Xbox console will have 0 sales.

There are still millions who have built their digital libraries on Xbox, and this benefit will also keep increasing since Xbox is taking a more digital approach to their future, and as you know unlike physical, digital games can't just be resold.
 
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JAHGamer

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Shall we do a poll of which one will be first?
My money is on Starfield.
Starfields already kinda been confirmed for late 2024 or early 2025. Sea of Thieves is April 30th, so I think they'll have something else between then and Starfield. I wouldn't be surprised if it's something "smaller" like Age of Empires, Killer Instinct, or Ori.
 
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panda-zebra

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2 Mar 2024
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By mostly good I mean, Gamepass and the relevance of their relation to the gaming industry.
Game Pass growth stalled, even with Gold subs merged, if anything churn beat new subs in recent times.
I won't lie, PS+ game catalog has been very good in alot of ways, but having games launch on your subscription is still very good value.
Good value if they are good games. If they are stinkers there is no value.
Microsoft got a very good deal on ABK, ABK's market cap fell a shit ton, which prompted MS to make the move. Also hit its record revenue in 2023, because Diablo IV hit or exceeded its sales target.
Whether MS got a very good deal or not remains to be seen. A decade from now they might have gone from strength to strength or they might have shut half the studios down.
Gamepass, I'm pretty sure will always be valuable and relevant, they really did an amazing job implementing play anywhere and getting gamepass on PC, and we will most likely see a big subscriber jump after Activision games come day 1 on the service.
Lol, no chance. There's nothing there that's going to convince anyone to sub who wasn't already.
There are still millions who have built their digital libraries on Xbox, and this benefit will also keep increasing since Xbox is taking a more digital approach to their future, and as you know unlike physical, digital games can't just be resold.
xbox isn't about digital libraries or ownership anymore. It's not somewhere people go to buy software or pubs plan on doing big business selling software. It's a rental outlet, a fixed-menu rental service.
 

JAHGamer

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8 May 2023
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By mostly good I mean, Gamepass and the relevance of their relation to the gaming industry.

I won't lie, PS+ game catalog has been very good in alot of ways, but having games launch on your subscription is still very good value.

Microsoft got a very good deal on ABK, ABK's market cap fell a shit ton, which prompted MS to make the move. Also hit its record revenue in 2023, because Diablo IV hit or exceeded its sales target.

For example if ABKs stock didn't fall MS would have to pay a 100 billion to acquire them, so they basically got 1$ while spending 0.70$, this was also primarily cash on hand, so MS just secured its gaming industry forever ticket, while getting billions of revenue every year.

Gamepass, I'm pretty sure will always be valuable and relevant, they really did an amazing job implementing play anywhere and getting gamepass on PC, and we will most likely see a big subscriber jump after Activision games come day 1 on the service.

+ I don't think Xbox hardware has much potential, but I don't think MS will pull the plug at all. Nor do I think the next high-end Xbox console will have 0 sales.

There are still millions who have built their digital libraries on Xbox, and this benefit will also keep increasing since Xbox is taking a more digital approach to their future, and as you know unlike physical, digital games can't just be resold.
This can't be a serious post? 😂

GamePass lost 4m subscribers last year and will lose even more this year. Microsoft is still losing a ton of money on it.

Saying "Microsoft got a very good deal on ABK" is a joke. They got fleeced, they paid 70 billion for a bunch of dying franchises.

Diablo 4 did good at first, and then it completely died and bombed after the first update.
CoD MW3 sold 33% less than MW2 did, and Warzone has lost 50% of its player base.
Overwatch 2 was DoA and now with the PVE cancelled, its deader than dead.
Hearthstone died a long time ago
WoW is the only ABK IP doing somewhat ok....

The only good thing out of that deal are the mobile games, but again 70 billion for that is a joke.

GamePass is tied directly to the console, and since the console is dying, that means GP is dying as well. I expect both the consoles and GamePass to be discontinued within the next 3 years.
 

saltyashell

Well-known member
11 Feb 2024
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I’d bet money on Capcom being the one that said Xbox development is a waste. RE8, SF6, RE4… all of this stuff mega flopped on Xbox. Never charted on xbl top 50. Embarrassing stuff if you were tracking it. Also why they took the Exoprimal handout… because they know Xbox users only consume gamepass as they’ve conditioned to do so.
That would be funny since bots seem to champion Capcom exceptionally loud. Most of the over the top praise and hype of DD2 on twitter right now are from xbot-aligned content creators, personalities and journalists.
 

Gods&Monsters

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21 Jun 2022
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I get that. It's massive news direct from devs to one of the most respected/trusted industry commentators out there. Any one of maybe 3 talking points Dring mentioned could have been thread-worthy in their own right, absolute nukes. 1,000 posts between GAF and ERA already but kinda didn't happen here unless you read the thread title closely, there's too many talking points to cram into one title!
I quickly scanned the first page and just saw old threads so turned it off. I went on ERA and there's like 12 pages in 2 hours and GAF is blowing up too.

I was wondering how come IconEra is not talking about this? It was merged in a random thread. I don't know why they want to kill their own traffic 🤷‍♂️
 
24 Jun 2022
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By mostly good I mean, Gamepass and the relevance of their relation to the gaming industry.

Would not say either of these are in great standing right now but whatever.

I won't lie, PS+ game catalog has been very good in alot of ways, but having games launch on your subscription is still very good value.

It's good value for end customers potentially, but if that were really the case then Game Pass sub rates would've grown a lot more than they have. Xbox console sales would be much better than they are.

Game Pass Day 1 has mainly been a marketing gimmick which isn't panning out, and even Microsoft have realized this hence they technically release their games a few days or a week ahead of the Game Pass drop, to shore up B2P sales based off FOMO.

Microsoft got a very good deal on ABK, ABK's market cap fell a shit ton, which prompted MS to make the move. Also hit its record revenue in 2023, because Diablo IV hit or exceeded its sales target.

For example if ABKs stock didn't fall MS would have to pay a 100 billion to acquire them, so they basically got 1$ while spending 0.70$, this was also primarily cash on hand, so MS just secured its gaming industry forever ticket, while getting billions of revenue every year.

The question isn't revenue; it's net profits. To cover the $75 billion payment in ABK, the Xbox division would have needed to make at least $2 billion a year in net profits for over 35 years. When the truth is, right now I seriously doubt they have been pulling in $2 billion in net profits from Xbox altogether, or getting anywhere near that prior to purchasing Zenimax & ABK.

Revenue only means so much; the changes MS are doing with their gaming division are all in an effort to increase profit margins. It's just that they can't squeeze any more money off their current base of core enthusiasts console owners, so they have to leverage revenue expansion by going multiplatform.

Gamepass, I'm pretty sure will always be valuable and relevant, they really did an amazing job implementing play anywhere and getting gamepass on PC, and we will most likely see a big subscriber jump after Activision games come day 1 on the service.

Game Pass will have a place insofar as maybe helping drive engagement of indie and smaller titles Day 1 into that type of service and, if Microsoft go multiplatform fully, they'll be able to bring the service to PlayStation and Nintendo platforms in a curated form.

But those are the only ways it's going to see a massive surge in subscribers. ABK games Day 1 won't do it most likely, because most of those won't be Day 1 games. I stand by the assertion that new CODs will NOT be Day 1 in Game Pass unless it's at the highest tier. MS are not going to jeopardize B2P sales revenue & profits long-term with any Game Pass inclusion of new CODs.

+ I don't think Xbox hardware has much potential, but I don't think MS will pull the plug at all. Nor do I think the next high-end Xbox console will have 0 sales.

Also don't think they'll pull the plug on Xbox hardware. However, I have a 90% feeling new Xbox consoles will not be "consoles", but gaming-specific/centric PC devices (mini-PCs, laptops, tablets, handhelds etc.) running Windows in a desktop environment & Xbox UI gaming frontend (as the default option), built around some common specification blueprint (CPU, GPU, RAM/RAM type, BIOS, controller IC, storage, motherboard etc.) that's scalable on the manufacturer's end and modular (to varying degrees) on the customer end depending on the form factor device type.

It's the only future they have with gaming hardware that isn't just peripherals, but it'd mean significant changes in current console model. Including things like no more Xbox console exclusives (because Xbox wouldn't be a "console" anymore), and being Day 1 on as many devices as possible (so PlayStation, Switch 2 in most cases, PC (Windows Store, Steam), mobile in some cases etc.).

They may have the rare game or two that's a timed Xbox "console" exclusive like Age of Empires or Flight Simulator but that's because they'd be timed PC exclusives before getting ported over to an actual console like PS5/PS6.
 
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xollowsob

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Starfields already kinda been confirmed for late 2024 or early 2025. Sea of Thieves is April 30th, so I think they'll have something else between then and Starfield. I wouldn't be surprised if it's something "smaller" like Age of Empires, Killer Instinct, or Ori.
Age of empires and Ori are a good shout TBF. Sony needs some RTS and AoE is pretty damned good.
 

Nhomnhom

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25 Mar 2023
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We need someone other than Vslve.
I think Valve would be perfect and would put the right kind of pressure on Sony if they moved into the console space.

Free online, no subscriptions, incentive for PlayStation to invest in exclusives, VR support, native portable companion device.

Paid online would never have being a thing if Sony had a decent competitor instead of the disgrace that is Xbox.
 

TigerFang

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7 Mar 2024
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Would not say either of these are in great standing right now but whatever.



It's good value for end customers potentially, but if that were really the case then Game Pass sub rates would've grown a lot more than they have. Xbox console sales would be much better than they are.

Game Pass Day 1 has mainly been a marketing gimmick which isn't panning out, and even Microsoft have realized this hence they technically release their games a few days or a week ahead of the Game Pass drop, to shore up B2P sales based off FOMO.



The question isn't revenue; it's net profits. To cover the $75 billion payment in ABK, the Xbox division would have needed to make at least $2 billion a year in net profits for over 35 years. When the truth is, right now I seriously doubt they have been pulling in $2 billion in net profits from Xbox altogether, or getting anywhere near that prior to purchasing Zenimax & ABK.

Revenue only means so much; the changes MS are doing with their gaming division are all in an effort to increase profit margins. It's just that they can't squeeze any more money off their current base of core enthusiasts console owners, so they have to leverage revenue expansion by going multiplatform.



Game Pass will have a place insofar as maybe helping drive engagement of indie and smaller titles Day 1 into that type of service and, if Microsoft go multiplatform fully, they'll be able to bring the service to PlayStation and Nintendo platforms in a curated form.

But those are the only ways it's going to see a massive surge in subscribers. ABK games Day 1 won't do it most likely, because most of those won't be Day 1 games. I stand by the assertion that new CODs will NOT be Day 1 in Game Pass unless it's at the highest tier. MS are not going to jeopardize B2P sales revenue & profits long-term with any Game Pass inclusion of new CODs.



Also don't think they'll pull the plug on Xbox hardware. However, I have a 90% feeling new Xbox consoles will not be "consoles", but gaming-specific/centric PC devices (mini-PCs, laptops, tablets, handhelds etc.) running Windows in a desktop environment & Xbox UI gaming frontend (as the default option), built around some common specification blueprint (CPU, GPU, RAM/RAM type, BIOS, controller IC, storage, motherboard etc.) that's scalable on the manufacturer's end and modular (to varying degrees) on the customer end depending on the form factor device type.

It's the only future they have with gaming hardware that isn't just peripherals, but it'd mean significant changes in current console model. Including things like no more Xbox console exclusives (because Xbox wouldn't be a "console" anymore), and being Day 1 on as many devices as possible (so PlayStation, Switch 2 in most cases, PC (Windows Store, Steam), mobile in some cases etc.).

They may have the rare game or two that's a timed Xbox "console" exclusive like Age of Empires or Flight Simulator but that's because they'd be timed PC exclusives before getting ported over to an actual console like PS5/PS6.
I like all your points, unlike previous replies to my post yours seem more thought out, I agree with your statement about the 2 billion revenue, not being profit, but still, having that while spending cash you were previously doing nothing with is amazing for them.

As I said, I just wanted to make the point that, MS has made its brand accessible from so many sides and devices, that I don't think Xbox gaming side will ever just "dissappear". I think most people on here really need to accept that.

About the Sub jump on ABK games on gamepass, I am only going off of what I assume the general public values more, Call of Duty will always be mentioned at the top of the list when listing First person shooters.
 

PlacidusaX

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24 Oct 2022
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I think Valve would be perfect and would put the right kind of pressure on Sony if they moved into the console space.

Free online, no subscriptions, incentive for PlayStation to invest in exclusives, VR support, native portable companion device.

Paid online would never have being a thing if Sony had a decent competitor instead of the disgrace that is Xbox.
Valve is a niche brand.
Most casual gamers have no clue who they are.
Steamdeck for example is a niche product but healthy, kinda like the Neo-Geo was except its specs are poor unlike NG at its time.

Also online wouldn't stay free if they adopted the console model.

We need someone else like Amazon maybe.