David Jaffe sets Twitter on fire after calling Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom “bland and old looking”

[Bryank75]

This is why I love Jaffe. He doesn't give two shits and always says what he wants.

He definite;y gets a discussion going. Always had a soft spot for him.. he's always been really good to me.

 

[voke]

still a fantastic game

 

[Zzero]

Excellent. But tell me, how easy it is to "make stuff"? I've seen people build all sorts of things. It's not some awkward gimmick and works well, right?

It took me a little while to figure out, and its not perfect, but once you get the hang of it its easy enough to make stuff. Its not as robust as something like, say, BK:Nuts and Bolts, where you can save designs, always have hundreds of pieces and can edit individual ones around without the connected pieces detaching, but it does give you a lot of freedom. And for shrines that give you lots of pieces, there's plenty of ways to cheese them.

 

[anonpuffs]

One more point. I see a lot of people excusing the graphics by saying "oh man it's a technical marvel that this even runs on switch".

No.

Witcher 3 switch port came out 3.5 years ago and -that- was a technical marvel.

TotK might be good compared to other nintendo games (see their last shitty-ass pokemon game) but in no way is it a technical marvel when it looks like a ps2 game compared to witcher.

 

[Nhomnhom]

One more point. I see a lot of people excusing the graphics by saying "oh man it's a technical marvel that this even runs on switch".

No.

Witcher 3 switch port came out 3.5 years ago and -that- was a technical marvel.

TotK might be good compared to other nintendo games (see their last shitty-ass pokemon game) but in no way is it a technical marvel when it looks like a ps2 game compared to witcher.

What is the excuse for TW3 terrible gameplay?

Zelda ToTK does look good a lot of the times even if you can take some bad screen from it.

The problem is the massive gap that exist between something like Zelda ToTK and things other games are attempting to do in terms of visuals, animation, sound, etc, all while these other games are being judged way more harshly and given no credit for the impressive things they achieve.

 

[anonpuffs]

What is the excuse for TW3 terrible gameplay?

Zelda ToTK does look good a lot of the times even if you can take some bad screen from it.

The problem is the massive gap that exist between something like Zelda ToTK and thing other games are attempting to do in terms of visuals, animation, sound, etc, while these other game are judged way more harshly and given no credit.

Gameplay is a separate matter. You can hold both the opinion that TotK has generation-defining gameplay, and dogshit graphics simultaneously without contradicting yourself. Gameplay is something that is very cpu-based and not gpu-based anyway, so you could have better graphics without compromising gameplay.

 

[Nhomnhom]

Gameplay is a separate matter. You can hold both the opinion that TotK has generation-defining gameplay, and dogshit graphics simultaneously without contradicting yourself. Gameplay is something that is very cpu-based and not gpu-based anyway, so you could have better graphics without compromising gameplay.

Zelda ToTK has very decent graphics for the low standard set by other Switch games.

Pokemon, Xenoblade Chronicles, Bayonetta, those are all some ugly looking games.

I can't wait to see what will happen when Nintendo get more powerful hardware and their games still look very similar to this.

 

[anonpuffs]

Zelda ToTK has very decent graphics for the low standard set by other Switch games.

Pokemon, Xenoblade Chronicles, Bayonetta, those are all some ugly looking games.

I can't wait to see what will happen when Nintendo get more powerful hardware and their games still look very similar to this.

Oh I agree with you, they will still look bad. That's why I say they deserve some criticism over how TotK looks. They're charging $70 for it. Then again it's the same company that charges you $300 for pieces of cardboard.

 

[Nhomnhom]

Oh I agree with you, they will still look bad. That's why I say they deserve some criticism over how TotK looks. They're charging $70 for it. Then again it's the same company that charges you $300 for pieces of cardboard.

In the end of the day ToTK is a damn good game, so the $70 does not offend me. But I think Nintendo has now painted themselves into a corner with their tech debt.

Where it's truly indefensible to me is Nintendo lack of effort in localizing and dubbing their games.

Another thing, you can't have a problem just with Nintendo, FromSoftware is another dev that is really behind on many technical aspects. I guess the lesson is that you can get away with it when you make really good games.

 

[Zzero]

One more point. I see a lot of people excusing the graphics by saying "oh man it's a technical marvel that this even runs on switch".

No.

Witcher 3 switch port came out 3.5 years ago and -that- was a technical marvel.

TotK might be good compared to other nintendo games (see their last shitty-ass pokemon game) but in no way is it a technical marvel when it looks like a ps2 game compared to witcher.

Did you play the Witcher port? It looked good in many cases but it also took foreeeeever to load and there were times where you could outrun the graphics and, for example, people on horses ended up looking like they were riding rocking horses or cardboard cutouts.

If you think BotW looks like PS2 you need to go back and see what PS2 actually looked like. Because it certainly never let you see half of a giant world map at the same time or showed the dynamic physics or enemy movement like this game has.

Then again you also think that most Nintendo published games look bad which is... well... I guess you never play or look at them if you are using Pokemon as your only comparison. Nintendo fans raked S/V (and the other Switch Gamefreak games) over the coals for not being up to standards anymore. The last (in release order) Nintendo 1st party game I played was Kirby: FL and it looked beautiful when it wasn't having framerate issues.


edit:

Another thing, you can't have a problem just with Nintendo, FromSoftware is another dev that is really behind on many technical aspects. I guess the lesson is that you can get away with it when you make really good games.

Good. I'd gladly trade a game looking "fine" instead of "great" if it means that the studio puts out a game every 18 months instead of every 84 months. Thank GOD Fromsoft doesn't care about that crap. They are the chemo curing modern day game dev priorities.

 

[Bryank75]

Did you play the Witcher port? It looked good in many cases but it also took foreeeeever to load and there were times where you could outrun the graphics and, for example, people on horses ended up looking like they were riding rocking horses or cardboard cutouts.

If you think BotW looks like PS2 you need to go back and see what PS2 actually looked like. Because it certainly never let you see half of a giant world map at the same time or showed the dynamic physics or enemy movement like this game has.

Then again you also think that most Nintendo published games look bad which is... well... I guess you never play or look at them if you are using Pokemon as your only comparison. Nintendo fans raked S/V (and the other Switch Gamefreak games) over the coals for not being up to standards anymore. The last (in release order) Nintendo 1st party game I played was Kirby: FL and it looked beautiful when it wasn't having framerate issues.


edit:


Good. I'd gladly trade a game looking "fine" instead of "great" if it means that the studio puts out a game every 18 months instead of every 84 months. Thank GOD Fromsoft doesn't care about that crap. They are the chemo curing modern day game dev priorities.

Oh wow, I never heard about any of this stuff on Witcher 3.... hahaha

I'd love to see a highlight reel for the laugh.

 

[anonpuffs]

Good. I'd gladly trade a game looking "fine" instead of "great" if it means that the studio puts out a game every 18 months instead of every 84 months. Thank GOD Fromsoft doesn't care about that crap. They are the chemo curing modern day game dev priorities.

Did TotK come out 18 months after BotW?

 

[Zzero]

Did TotK come out 18 months after BotW?

No but it practically doubled the map size, added what sounds like a real campaign and totally changed the combat. Since the last game took about the same amount of time (plus a year for covid) that seems a fair trade.

 

[ethomaz]

You forget that switch is not full tegra x1, it is clocked down to 307 mhz (1/3 of max clocks). Also Orin Nano is centered around AI, and on samsung 8nm which is much less power efficient than tsmc 6nm.

Also, handhelds like the ASUS one run 1080p 120hz, switch is doing 720p at 30/60hz

Asus one is like twice the size of a handheld just like Steam Desk.

Switch uses around 60% of X1 peak clocks… that is why I used 60% of Orin Nano clocks

Orin Nano is around 2x Tegra X1.

It is too low for a new Switch… the tech is not here in 2023 like it was not there in previous years.

 

[anonpuffs]

Asus one is like twice the size of a handheld just like Steam Desk.

Switch uses around 60% of X1 peak clocks… that is why I used 60% of Orin Nano clocks

Orin Nano is around 2x Tegra X1.

It is too low for a new Switch… the tech is not here in 2023 like it was not there in previous years.

Orin Nano doesn't have any gaming benchmarks, it's not designed to be a gaming part. It's for productivity. most of its silicon is dedicated towards AI acceleration. You can't use tflops to compare between architectures anyway. Also switch doesn't use 60% of tegra x1 max clocks, it uses 33% in handheld. That's what we're comparing right? Perf/watt for handheld. Docked efficiency doesn't matter. The fact is Apple M1 exists, that shows that an efficient ARM based graphics architecture can exist on TSMC nodes, and have several generations better performance. For example radeon integrated graphics on the zen3 6800u is basically as good as a gtx 1050 mobile in gaming. link

Now compare that to the geforce 930mx which is a maxwell GPU with the same amount of gflops as the tegra x1 GPU. link

Easily 4x the performance.

Now, granted, the 680m Is probably drawing twice as much power as the switch's GPU. But power efficiency doesn't scale linearly. You can cut power by half but lose less than half performance easily.

 

[ghostz]

He is not incorrect. I played some SotC PS4 right after playing Zelda ToTK 2 days ago and the difference in graphics is multi generational.

Only Nintendo get away with this stuff. Let's get real, if this exact same game was released on the PS5 featuring a character with a different name than Link it would not get anywhere near a 96 on Metacritic.

For as praised as the game is for it's design it also includes extremely bureaucratic and archaic mechanics, tons of boring text and dialogue.

ToTK looks great some times but can also look awful, it plays great most of the time but sometimes you are also exposed to stretches of boring/basic content. Nintendo is also extremely stubborn, they doubled down on the putrid weapon breaking system that would have taken down most other games.

From a gameplay standpoint, this game would be a 10000000/10 on PS5. There’s nothing on PS5 that can even compare.

 

[ethomaz]

He is not incorrect. I played some SotC PS4 right after playing Zelda ToTK 2 days ago and the difference in graphics is multi generational.

Only Nintendo get away with this stuff. Let's get real, if this exact same game was released on the PS5 featuring a character with a different name than Link it would not get anywhere near a 96 on Metacritic.

For as praised as the game is for it's design it also includes extremely bureaucratic and archaic mechanics, tons of boring text and dialogue.

ToTK looks great some times but can also look awful, it plays great most of the time but sometimes you are also exposed to stretches of boring/basic content. Nintendo is also extremely stubborn, they doubled down on the putrid weapon breaking system that would have taken down most other games.

I mean Switch is inferior to PS4.
It is a portable.

 

[ethomaz]

Orin Nano doesn't have any gaming benchmarks, it's not designed to be a gaming part. It's for productivity. most of its silicon is dedicated towards AI acceleration. You can't use tflops to compare between architectures anyway. Also switch doesn't use 60% of tegra x1 max clocks, it uses 33% in handheld. That's what we're comparing right? Perf/watt for handheld. Docked efficiency doesn't matter. The fact is Apple M1 exists, that shows that an efficient ARM based graphics architecture can exist on TSMC nodes, and have several generations better performance. For example radeon integrated graphics on the zen3 6800u is basically as good as a gtx 1050 mobile in gaming. link

Now compare that to the geforce 930mx which is a maxwell GPU with the same amount of gflops as the tegra x1 GPU. link

Easily 4x the performance. View attachment 1367

Now, granted, the 680m Is probably drawing twice as much power as the switch's GPU. But power efficiency doesn't scale linearly. You can cut power by half but lose less than half performance easily.

Man when you start to use desktop GPU talking about what the new Switch can be... well you basially lose the argument.
The fact there is nothing for portable shows the issue and you keep digging.

M1 is a 40W APU... it uses 20W in iddle (doing nothing) that is already more than what you need for a new Switch.

Orin-mano is the only think that exists that is like Tegra X1 and it doesn't have a generation jump in performance for new device.

BTW you mistook again the 33% in handhel... Handheld Switch power draw is <7W... it is docked (~60% of full X1 clocks) that it draws <15W.
When I said you need a <15W chip I was talking about docked.
If we look only about portable then then it needs to be <7W.

Orin-nano <7W probably deliver less than 400 GFLOPS that is around what Switch docked delivery today.

Are you sure Nintendo wants a devices that will have Switch graphics in portable mode? That is the issue.... tech is not here... at least not in 2023.... in 2024 there is anthing tech wise tha can delivery a Swtich sucessor I will say now they can do it but right now there is no option.

And not only for Switch sucessor... PS5 Pro is fated to disapoint most of PS fans if released this or next year.

 

[anonpuffs]

Man when you start to use desktop GPU talking about what the new Switch can be... well you basially lose the argument.
The fact there is nothing for portable shows the issue and you keep digging.

M1 is a 40W APU... it uses 20W in iddle (doing nothing) that is already more than what you need for a new Switch.

Orin-mano is the only think that exists that is like Tegra X1 and it doesn't have a generation jump in performance for new device.

BTW you mistook again the 33% in handhel... Handheld Switch power draw is <7W... it is docked (~60% of full X1 clocks) that it draws <15W.
When I said you need a <15W chip I was talking about docked.
If we look only about portable then then it needs to be <7W.

Orin-nano <7W probably deliver less than 400 GFLOPS that is around what Switch docked delivery today.

Are you sure Nintendo wants a devices that will have Switch graphics in portable mode? That is the issue.... tech is not here... at least not in 2023.... in 2024 there is anthing tech wise tha can delivery a Swtich sucessor I will say now they can do it but right now there is no option.

And not only for Switch sucessor... PS5 Pro is fated to disapoint most of PS fans if released this or next year.

lmao why are you still talking about orin nano? I already showed you a 15w part (680m) which absolutely BTFO the tegra x1.

You are absolutely out of your mind if you think that no advancements in mobile tech in the last 10 years. Also, M1 uses 20w in idle??? LOOOOOOOOOL

No wonder you have no idea what you're talking about. You pull shit straight from your ass.

 

[Systemshock2023]

Folks for some reason believe that consoles get pixie dust based improvements in HW. If the PC HW industry does not move forward in terms of performance/price performance and power efficiency, then these consoles will be here to stay for a long time.

PS5/Xbox series X and series S are MIRACLES being as powerful as they are.