Did you not realized at very start when he was younger?
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Final Fantasy XVI [OT] Clean Out Your PSClive Boys, We're Going Boss Hunting
- Thread starter anonpuffs
- Start date
Clive starts as a 15 year old, oppressed by his situation with his mother and finding purpose i.n the role given to protect his brother.
He loses that with the apparent death of his brother. Hell bent on revenge after years of enslavement he aims to find the killer, willing to take out anyone in his path inducing his fellow bearer slaves
Through connecting with Cid he is able to develop a deeper understanding of the plight of the bearers, and the role of magic in the world.
Through seeing and experiencing the humiliation, torture and deaths of bearers he is able to set aside his self centred ambitions
Set aside his inability to establish bonds with other people
Through understanding he is an Eikon he is able to accept his role in the death of Joshua
And by doing that and experiencing the death of Cid and all the aforementioned is he able to understand and carry on the vision of Cid. A vision that accepts anyone, wants to change the world and let's Clive realistically become a symbol everybody rallies around as he continues to forge those relationships with those in his hideout and outside
From the first act to second he develops from a minor player barely more than a slave to one who is shaping global affairs, all the while become more mature in his reason for why
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By the end he has accepted he is a sacrifice for his and Cids vision for the good of humanity and dies the heroes death saving the world, as well as accepted that Joshuaus, be part of that sacrifice.
At the end rather than the shield for the Phoenix, he become the true Eikon of fire and becomes the Phoenix who burns down the world of magic to resurrect the one without it, and then dies as his body turns to ash
At the end rather than the shield for the Phoenix, he become the true Eikon of fire and becomes the Phoenix who burns down the world of magic to resurrect the one without it, and then dies as his body turns to ash
you have to be pretty ignorant, blind or just bias would see all of that.
great written comment, sums up pretty nicely.
A very good way to describe Clive without the game context I guess.
What I saw in the game until now...
Clive is 15 years old that doesn't have it own opinions, follow orders and is manipulated.
He become a slave tha basically doesn't change that... start to follow his own made up revenge when he always know he was the guy he wants revenge.
He meet Cid that basically put his opinion on him and manipulated again.
Cid dies... what he does? Start to follow own Cid ideals (and not his), orders and being manipulated.
He didn't grow... he continue the same from yunger to middle game... maybe there is some big character grows in the last part of the game (I don't know).
And the game slap your face with that with all the dialogs when he is asked to take decisions "What should Cid do in that situation?" "I need to act like Cid" etc... he doesn't follow what he things... he follow what others things (in this case Cid).
He continue lacking ideals, following orders and being manipulated.
And I will explain why I called Jill a decorative object... because she is not needed for any event that she took part... she doesn't fit and sync with the hideout.... the part of the story she have ties should happen with or without her (because Cid already made up Clive mind to destory the iron insland crystal).
The romance (that is why she is there) doesn't evolve... the same scene/situation happens when they are younger after they meet again several times... both like each other from the look in the very start of the game (it is not a well build up relationship... it just there but always in the same state).... I mean how many years? 30 year stagned?
Jill meaning in the game is like Ultima imo... I don't know why they are there because the game could be the same without them.... the difference is that Jill is presented in a proper way while Ultima is throw to you like "let's put that unrelated villan here".
It is different from for example Cid... he is essential for the game... he needs to be there to give ideals, orders and manipulate Clive even after death.
I started the game loving the story (in fact people here know I was not a fan of the gameplay) but more I play the more the story drops in my personal ranking.
Of course for a good story characters and it development needs to be good... and I don't see that in FFXVI.
Some days ago I started to think about FFXV that for more that I hate and find it trash tier.... have better characters and character development.
It was not something easy to accept that FFXV did something good but that is my opinion right now after thinking a lot about it lately.
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I think because Clive doesn't emote in a classical anime jrpg protagonist over-the-top way and is reserved, this dude thinks there's no character growth. But that couldn't be further from the truth. Also ending spoilers
he isn't dead at the end. He lives on by taking the name of his brother. The book in the post credits titled Final Fantasy is written by him
I think your interpretations of Clive are highly pessimistic ways of interpreting the character.
Personally he is one of my favourite protagonists of the past few years. A deep dive into a character through his life, struggles and his ability to grow and be a good person
I don't disagree about Jill. She felt a couple hours short of being fully developed, we needed more of her recovering from her ordeals and changing after her revenge. I also felt like this with Joshua
One of the weaknesses was a lack of these characters connecting until maybe their final side quests. And on side quests the partners just being too silently, not reacting to moments or adding their own thoughts
I also had problems with Ultima. Too much of an off screen villain while the eikons were far better developed characters
But none of that detracts from Clive being an excellent character and there being tons of great supporting characters
MHW’s larger enemy encounters can be quite thrilling way more than anything here tbh. Story is nonsense and not worth paying attention to but the game is fantastic.
Yeah the story is what was keeping me from playing monster hunter.
But after doing multiple hunts in row in ff16 I realised, shit I don't need a story to enjoy the hunting missions.
I really couldn’t give higher praise to a game than I would Monster Hunter World. Combat has a ton of depth as does buildcrafting. The armor and loot chase is tied to your hunts so there’s both the challenge and the reward pushing you ahead. And some absolutely amazing environmental dynamic shit can happen that can make the same fight feel different. It’s beautiful… etc… Masterclass game design across the board. I cannot speak about its expansion but I’ve been tempted to jump back in myself.
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Itemization is something MH does incredibly well. Wish FF16 was delayed a year so they could do something like it. Would make the game way way better
Eh yea that and actual dungeons. I’m sick of this game. Just want to end… totally soured on it after Bahamut encounter. It’s kinda mid at best. I should’ve finished it by now but motivation has been pretty much killed with the last 20 hours of boring slog it throws at you.
I like it better than FF7r and 15 but I should preface that with honestly not thinking of those games highly at all.
At this point I’m convinced this was half ass thrown together to have its assets created for a FF14 engine upgrade. It’s a totally half-baked game from start to finish.
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After Bahamut battle I give the game a break.
I was playing every day but now it a week without play.
Plan to get enough energy to play more this week and now finish it.
The game has really high peak but at the same time very low bottom… lacks a bit of consistency.
An Ifrit + Shiva team up could have been amazing against Titan, it wouldn't change much in the overral narrative, it would have given some well deserved screentime to Jill and it would have looked so fucking cool. It would have also made sense since Hugo had already fought shiva once and tried to kill Jill later on, it would have been a nice payback to him.
I was always more for them expanding the Iron Kingdom arc, its the one nation we don't truly explore and everyone there is Evil except the captured women. We dont even visit their island proper. These guys are a cult that worships the Mothercrystals, maybe they have some kind of relic from the time Ultima was awake (which would mean bonus cryptic foreshadowing, especially about the Circle of Malius since I believe its stated the Orthodoxy is the closest existing variant to the ancient religion, which would make the Barnabas shenanigans feel less out of left field), they could have a crazy monster under their sleeve or something they intended to unleash on Storm that Ifrit and Shiva had to stop. You could even make it a cool ocean battle of sorts. Killing the Patriarch is awesome for Jill, but the fact is that the country itself still remains and will be a threat again eventually. AND Lady Marleigh is still their captive, which pisses me off to this day lol. I expected a sidequest to get her back, at the very least.
My personal wish had been for both, an expanded Iron Kingdom with a Shiva+Ifrit team up, and a pure Shiva gameplay battle vs Odin. It would give Jill exactly what Joshua got: one fight in which we only control her, and one team up fight with Ifrit, which would at least help make the MC team feel more balanced (considering they love to bench her. I love Uncle Byron but I hate that to get him we had to leave Jill behind. Why not both??? Jill has so much guilt about the battle of Nysa, we could have gotten a lot of cool convos between her and Clive while going through Dhalmekia. If you absolutely had to make Titan without Shiva, just make Jill break away from Clive to rescue some civillians bc trying to make up for the lives she took and whatnot + Clive convincing her for once to not prime, since she never listens to him once during the game, which I find funny considering Jill and Joshua harp on Clive all the time yet they're as stubborn and self sacrificial as he is. Either way, would make for a nice step towards them eventually talking their issues out on the beach, with both doing something to stay alive and be together, Jill letting go of Shiva and Clive promising to be back to moongaze together with her.)
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Finished it a couple days ago.
Really mixed feelings on it because as a "video game", it's incredibly bland, basic, and feels like it's not even done. The story wanders, and has weak characterization. There is simply no growth for the main characters, and there are things that come up and are just ... dropped. The music is also completely forgettable (did not cancel the soundtrack pre order though), and I can only remember a track or two simply out of sheer repetition.
It's also definitely not an RPG. I don't know why this fact offends some people. You have no choice in how to play the game outside of a few VERY small things. The game is pure action, and kind of a button masher at that. It takes no skill. I even got a trophy for beating a boss without taking a single hit lol. I mean, come on. Enemy attacks are generally really telegraphed. Equipment is generally delved out at checkpoints, and the upgrade mechanic is weak as hell. You'll never be short on Gil unless you buy orchestrions. So whatever you need is easy to get. And potions are so limited because without that limit the game would be impossible to lose at. The game is linear to a fault IMO. And the side quests are just not fulfilling IMO. The game tells you were to go at ALL TIMES. There is no exploration whatsoever. You cant even talk to most townspeople (the few that are there). The world feels small and contained even though there are grand landscapes off in the distance quite often.
I really wish Clive did not look like a Dante wannabe. I also really wish the game wasn't such a Game of Thrones wanna be.
The Eikon battles are huge spectacles but complete trash from a gameplay standpoint. Even more easy than the regular combat on the few occasions you actually get to play them, and otherwise limited to sitting there watching a bunch of stupid DragonballZ-esque baloney happening. That kinda mindless over the top action is for kids. Which is funny since this game is supposedly geared towards "adults" but it comes across much more like a silly young adult novel. In just about every way.
Pros ..I liked some of the locations. Really imaginative vistas at times, but most of them were spoiled in trailers and pre-release hype, which really bummed me out. But still a very cool design aesthetic. I thought the ending was a bit touching but all I will say about that is that it didn't really come from the characters but the fact I have certain "life experience" I can relate to the ending. The best part of the game was Torgal, but animal buddies are always fun. I really liked the design of the chocobos in this game.
I know some people love this game, and that's fine. If you wanted a medieval-ish action game I suppose it sort of delivers. But it's still too easy, narrow, and just kinda silly. I don't think the game will age well and in a few years people will be much more realistic about what this game delivers.
I strongly, and I mean strongly feel that this game is getting some love it wouldn't otherwise get if it launched on the Xbox as well. The fact it's a PS exclusive makes me think some people are really desirous for it to be perceived as being better than it is. However, if you look at Gamefaqs forums, you'll see there are a LOT of people who do see this game for what it is already. I couldn't care less about platforms, so it being an exclusive does nothing for my perception of it. Only what it is as a game.
I would probably give it a 6/10 at best. Which is a bummer because this was my most anticipated game of the year. I thought it would be something fresh, and different and a real next-gen showcase. I ended up being shocked at what was delivered (or should I say, not delivered).
And with that, I am glad to be moving on.
Just wrapped it up today. All side quest and monster hunts done as well. I have to agree with this 100%. Well I like Clive and the kaiju narrative but I mean the game criticisms — and there were zero interesting locations.
Kinda upset there’s nothing even remotely similar to a dungeon anywhere.
I’m sure people like it genuinely but after finishing it … man … shocked at how this turned out. I wanted to like this and there’s aspects that I do… but … sigh
I’m out. I have nothing good to say. Just glad it’s done
Edit: I do want to add that it’s kinda piqued my interest in FF Origins tho. I’ll bite when it’s on sale.
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What's up with that out of place music during boss fights? Something straight out of DMC. Doesn't fit the tone and atmosphere of the game at all.