Firewalk Studios is being shut down

[mibu no ookami]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this game didn't fail because of woke
It failed because live service games are a gamble by default, and the game was an Overwatch clone from an unproven studio with forgettable character design years after Overwatch lost its relevance.

I agree. I think Sony made a mistake with a lot of its GaaS strategy in that they focused on studios and IP that weren't proven.

A Killzone live service game with a single player campaign releasing on PS5 and PC would have had far more success than Concord. The same is true of SOCOM US Navy Seals.

I think Sony wrote off a lot of their multiplayer games from the PS3 generation because they didn't sell as well as their single player counterparts, but in context it's because they were at the time so far behind Xbox Live and didn't have PC versions or cross play.

SOCOM was just as popular as CoD or Medal of Honor on PS2.

Sony should lean into its multiplayer heritage in support of their GaaS strategy.

Even looking at Destruction All Stars... that simply should have been a Destruction Derby game.

Many people will argue no one cares about classic IP, but the reality is no one cares about an IP that no one has heard of. You might as well lean on existing IP that have established fanbases, especially if you're essentially rebooting or remaking the franchise.

God of War 2018 is evidence of that outselling all God of War games before it combined.

 

[Boswollox]

The general premise that someone with a Y device will buy a PS5 instead because of X game is fundamentally unsound

The console market for four decades says otherwise.

One of the biggest problems with fanboy mentality is that it ignores all evidence to maintain the illusion.

At least you're honest with yourself.

 

[RE4-City]

Sony/PS would be better of if they took MS approach & just bought whole publishers & acquire the team that already have a history of cadence, quality & output.

Buy Capcom (western/asia/esports)
Buy Square Enix (japan/asia)
Buy Hoyoverse (mobile)
Kadokawa (ps production/anime/manga)

Not to mention Bungie marathon is multiplat in where the PS5 console sell & landscape is looking spooky they have marathon being multiplat where it should be PS & PC exclusive to push PS console hell it should even get a PS4 just to further ensure game population.

PS future look bleak due to Jim, Herman & Sony/PS short sighted vision chasing small profits/growth on competitors platform at the demise of there own platform, storefront & hardware. It’s like they saw Xbox implode & said ehh let’s head the same direction as those guys

If Sony buys Capcom I am moving to the woods and done with gaming except for the original RE4.
could you imagine a world where Sony Buys Capcom which is in one of it's own best eras in the history of the company only to shut them down 3 years from now because of a single flop.

People need to realize Sony is the new EA:


They closed down 3 studios this year despite record profits? This is different from 2012 where they closed down Zipper, Sony Liverpool, and Bigbig Studios because of the rough financial shape they were in.

I don't, it's not a hope...it's just speculation. Based on the reception etc.

I rather FairGames$ be a success, Jade Raymond seems like a cool Developer and we haven't heard of any bad stories coming out of Haven so far like Bungie. having huge layoffs and stuff like this:

Bungie CEO Seemingly Spent Over $2.3 Million On Classic Cars After Sony Acquisition

Sony purchased Bungie, the original studio behind Halo and the maker of Destiny 2, for a whopping $3.6 billion in 2022. Following the sale, Bungie CEO Pete Parsons purchased over 20 classic cars in online auctions costing millions of dollars, according to his account on the website Bring A...

finance.yahoo.com

FairGames$ looks like it could redeem itself if they take the necessary lessons from Concord on it's next rereveal.

 

[mibu no ookami]

The console market for four decades says otherwise.

That you think the rules of the past apply to the present and future says a lot about you.

Markets change.

NBA Live used to be the predominant basketball game on the market. Now it is NBA 2K. That didn't help the Dreamcast though. 2K only became what it is today by being multiplatform.

The largest games on the market are multiplatform and it isn't particularly close and that's true historically too.

You look at the sales of Metal Gear Solid on PS1 or Metal Gear Solid 2 on PS2... and they're largely insignificant to the overall market, but games like this sold consoles based on prestige and the lack of larger AAA games.

The market is stacked with AAA games now.

At least you're honest with yourself.

The irony...

 

[mibu no ookami]

If Sony buys Capcom I am moving to the woods and done with gaming except for the original RE4.
could you imagine a world where Sony Buys Capcom which is in one of it's best eras in history only to shut them down 3 years from now because of a single flop.

I rather FairGames$ be a success, Jade Raymond seems like a cool Developer and we haven't heard of any bad stories coming out of Haven so far like Bungie. having huge layoffs and stuff like this:

Bungie CEO Seemingly Spent Over $2.3 Million On Classic Cars After Sony Acquisition

Sony purchased Bungie, the original studio behind Halo and the maker of Destiny 2, for a whopping $3.6 billion in 2022. Following the sale, Bungie CEO Pete Parsons purchased over 20 classic cars in online auctions costing millions of dollars, according to his account on the website Bring A...

finance.yahoo.com

FairGames$ looks like it could redeem itself if they take the necessary lessons from Concord on it's next rereveal.

What do you do for a living? You don't seem to have any concept of reality.

Has Sony shut down a well established studio over one flop before? Let me know who?

Layoffs aren't inherently a bad sign for a studio/company nor is a lack of layoffs inherently a good sign for a studio/company.

Firewalk did not have layoffs before they closed. Santa Monica studio had layoffs before God of War 2018...

Santa Monica released God of War Ascension which underperformed and then their next game was cancelled. This lead to layoffs. Then they immediately put out their best performing game of all time... just 4 years later.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

Maybe you guys just aren't students of history, business, economics... or you know anything...

 

[Dr. E99]

Phones aren't competition for a console. The kind of gaming you do there is very different so you might as well release something there and get a piece of the pie. On the other hand releasing games on PC when you are a console maker is retarded.

I don't know man, for a certain segment of the market I'd say they are. Resident Evil 2 and 4 are available on iOS, for example. As are a bunch of prestige indies. Hell, you can play Hades right now on your iPhone if you have a Netflix subscription. Call of Duty, Need for Speed, etc...it;'s all there on mobile.

The overlap might be small, and there will always be a "hardcore" crowd that will *only* game on consoles. But discounting the mobile market and continued growth of that market is a fool's errand.

 

[RE4-City]

What do you do for a living? You don't seem to have any concept of reality.

Has Sony shut down a well established studio over one flop before? Let me know who?

Layoffs aren't inherently a bad sign for a studio/company nor is a lack of layoffs inherently a good sign for a studio/company.

Firewalk did not have layoffs before they closed. Santa Monica studio had layoffs before God of War 2018...

Santa Monica released God of War Ascension which underperformed and then their next game was cancelled. This lead to layoffs. Then they immediately put out their best performing game of all time... just 4 years later.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

Maybe you guys just aren't students of history, business, economics... or you know anything...

They shut down Sony Liverpool over Wipeout 2048 in 2012 and also shut down Bigbig Studios and Zipper in the same year.
Also it is you with the one with no concept in reality because you are a graduate from the university of brown nosing Sony

 

[Boswollox]

That you think the rules of the past apply to the present and future says a lot about you.

Markets change.

NBA Live used to be the predominant basketball game on the market. Now it is NBA 2K. That didn't help the Dreamcast though. 2K only became what it is today by being multiplatform.

The largest games on the market are multiplatform and it isn't particularly close and that's true historically too.

You look at the sales of Metal Gear Solid on PS1 or Metal Gear Solid 2 on PS2... and they're largely insignificant to the overall market, but games like this sold consoles based on prestige and the lack of larger AAA games.

The market is stacked with AAA games now.

Wow, with all those examples, you sure have me convinced. How could I not see that the Dreamcast would have been saved if it had NBA and not NBA.

Oh glory glory you surely have shown me the light.

"Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of the past, are doomed to repeat them"
Sega - past
Microsoft - present
Sony - future.

 

[Boswollox]

You don't seem to have any concept of reality.

 

[TrishaCat]

Layoffs aren't inherently a bad sign for a studio/company

lol

 

[mibu no ookami]

They shut down Sony Liverpool over Wipeout 2048 in 2012 and also shut down Bigbig Studios and Zipper in the same year.
Also it is you with the one with no concept in reality because you are a graduate from the university of brown nosing Sony

Studio Liverpool had a string of failures and canceled projects.

So did Bigbig studios and Zipper...

Sony kept these studios alive well longer than most would have...

 

[mibu no ookami]

lol

Microsoft is one of the largest companies in the world... they've had a tremendous number of layoffs across the company.

Think they might go out of business next year?

 

[RE4-City]

Studio Liverpool had a string of failures and canceled projects.

So did Bigbig studios and Zipper...

Sony kept these studios alive well longer than most would have...

Sounds like Sony needs to get out of the business of consoles then since they just can't stop closing thigs down and have a history of failures.
If they close down three studios in a year where they are making record profits then I wonder what is gonna happen the next time they have a PS3 level disaster.

There is no way with how long and expensive game development takes that Sony today could survive this:

Sony stocks downgraded to 'junk' by Fitch credit ratings agency

Changing times

www.polygon.com

 

[Boswollox]

Microsoft is one of the largest companies in the world... they've had a tremendous number of layoffs across the company.

Think they might go out of business next year?

This post should be the only return when posting "lack of introspection definition" on Google.

Biggest company has most lay offs. How can this be?

 

[TrishaCat]

Microsoft is one of the largest companies in the world... they've had a tremendous number of layoffs across the company.

Think they might go out of business next year?

Layoffs are a sign of failure in leadership and a reaction to avoid significant financial loss
No, Microsoft is not going to go out of business, much like how most of those companies doing them won't, but people do not want to work for a company that regularly has mass layoffs because they would not feel their job is secure, hindering employee morale and recruitment. Layoffs also prevent teams from learning and growing and building on knowledge obtained from experience working together.
Mass layoffs also come with cost-cutting

 

[mibu no ookami]

Sounds like Sony needs to get out of the business of consoles then since they just can't stop closing thigs down and have a history of failures.
If they close down three studios in a year where they are making record profits then I wonder what is gonna happen the next time they have a PS3 level disaster.

There is no way with how long and expensive game development takes that Sony today could survive this:

Sony stocks downgraded to 'junk' by Fitch credit ratings agency

Changing times

www.polygon.com

Sony is closing studios that aren't profitable and haven't been profitable/don't have the outlook of being able to be profitable.

Sony bought a bunch of start-ups and took a risk on them. It's cheaper than buying larger studios. Somehow gamers think Sony doesn't know that startups are inherently riskier than established studios.

Sony bought these studios to help fill out their development pipeline, especially in areas where their primary studios weren't focused on.

The closest thing we've seen to a major live service game from a Sony primary studio has been GT7.

Factions would have been next, but Naughty Dog canceled it.

Closing studios is the same as letting employees go. It happens and the bigger you are the more likely it is to happen.

Sony has more studios today than it has ever had in its history... True or false?

 

[mibu no ookami]

Layoffs are a sign of failure in leadership and a reaction to avoid significant financial loss
No, Microsoft is not going to go out of business, much like how most of those companies doing them won't, but people do not want to work for a company that regularly has mass layoffs because they would not feel their job is secure, hindering employee morale and recruitment. Layoffs also prevent teams from learning and growing and building on knowledge obtained from experience working together.
Mass layoffs also come with cost-cutting

Layoffs are hard on people, but they're not necessarily a failure in leadership. This is a really simple minded view of things.

If a war in Europe causes economic decline globally, which results in lower sales, is that the fault of local leadership at a game studio?

If a once in a hundred year pandemic strikes the planet, is that the fault of local leadership at a game studio?

If a competitor puts out a similar game to yours that has been in development for 4-5 years, is that the fault of local leadership?

I think you need to examine the world fault and get a better understanding of it.

You can do everything right in life and still lose. That's not inherently anyone's fault.

There are 30 teams in the NBA. Only 1 team can win a championship at the end of the year. If a star player gets hurt, is it leaderships fault?

Guess what, Sony is still one of the best places to work in the industry. They're still hiring despite layoffs and guess what, people want those jobs.

Explain to me how Santa Monica made God of War 2018 after layoffs, a canceled project, and a really underperforming game? Isn't leadership to blame for the previous two failures?

 

[Would_you_kindly]

The sad thing is Firewall was probably full of your average joe talented developers that would have gone far ten years ago but now get shoved down the pecking order cause they are a nerdy white guy instead of a trans activist

Firewalk was comprised mostly of ex bungie Devs ....

 

[RE4-City]

Sony is closing studios that aren't profitable and haven't been profitable/don't have the outlook of being able to be profitable.

Sony bought a bunch of start-ups and took a risk on them. It's cheaper than buying larger studios. Somehow gamers think Sony doesn't know that startups are inherently riskier than established studios.

Sony bought these studios to help fill out their development pipeline, especially in areas where their primary studios weren't focused on.

The closest thing we've seen to a major live service game from a Sony primary studio has been GT7.

Factions would have been next, but Naughty Dog canceled it.

Closing studios is the same as letting employees go. It happens and the bigger you are the more likely it is to happen.

Sony has more studios today than it has ever had in its history... True or false?

True, But they are releasing less and less games every generation which is kind of important for running a business of selling consoles.

Sony probably has the most employees in SIE ever but that doesn't change the fact that their output is smaller than last gen which was already smaller than the PS3 gen.

Unless if Sony finds something out this is not sustainable.

Also I'm sure Sony knew some of their live services games would be flops which is why I'm sure they originally planned way more to come out then what they are currently releasing. However I am also sure nobody at Sony was expecting any of their live services games to be shut down in TWO WEEKS! after all that money was spent on it.

Sony cuts Live Service titles from 12 down to 6

Was mentioned earlier on the Q2 webcast, I havent managed to listen well to what they said regarding the remaining 6 games. The title is roughly the summary of what I managed to catch from the translator...

icon-era.com

Let me give you a history lesson. When you see long time heads of PlayStation leaving out of no where like Connie Booth, you know something not good is happening within the company. Jim Ryan stepping down out of nowhere after now to the point they had to have Hiroki Totoki be an interim CEO is not a good sign.

If these signs seem normal to you then fine. Awesome I guess PlayStation will be all fine and Dandy and we can expect the rest of the PS5 generation to not have anymore studio closures right before the launch of the PS6?

 

[mibu no ookami]

True, But they are releasing less and less games every generation which is kind of important for running a business of selling consoles.

Games are taking longer and longer to develop. What don't you understand about that?

Sony probably has the most employees in SIE ever but that doesn't change the fact that their output is smaller than last gen which was already smaller than the PS3 gen.

See above. But I'll add to that, Sony has been more consistently releasing bangers the last 10 years than they did in the first 20 years.

Unless if Sony finds something out this is not sustainable.

See above.

Also I'm sure Sony knew some of their live services games would be flops which is why I'm sure they originally planned way more to come out then what they are currently releasing. However I am also sure nobody at Sony was expecting any of their live services games to be shut down in TWO WEEKS! after all that money was spent on it.

Sony cuts Live Service titles from 12 down to 6

Was mentioned earlier on the Q2 webcast, I havent managed to listen well to what they said regarding the remaining 6 games. The title is roughly the summary of what I managed to catch from the translator...

icon-era.com

No one could foresee the campaign against Concord when the game started development or even when Sony bought the company.

Let me give you a history lesson. When you see long time heads of PlayStation leaving out of no where like Connie Booth, you know something not good is happening within the company. Jim Ryan stepping down out of nowhere after now to the point they had to have Hiroki Totoki be an interim CEO is not a good sign.

You say that and yet they didn't go external in hiring anyone to lead the company, which if your fears were true, they would have.

Connie didn't leave, she was fired. JIm Ryan retired after decades at Sony. Which Sony CEO announced their retirement with more advanced notice than Jim Ryan?

If these signs seem normal to you then fine. Awesome I guess PlayStation will be all fine and Dandy and we can expect the rest of the PS5 generation to not have anymore studio closures right before the launch of the PS6?

No, I fully expect Media Molecule and Firesprite to close down before the PS6 launches, but I bet Sony buys another studio before the end of the generation.