First PS5 Pro Previews are coming up
- Thread starter John Elden Ring
- Start date
Sony have made the right choice once again, instead of doing something shitty like Microsoft did with the Xbox Seris X/S from the outset, they've opted for a more sensible choice.That's awesome to hear and I hope Sony keeps it been this easy or maybe even easier in the future!
First the PS5, then in the mid-generation with the PS5 Pro, but both are still better balanced in terms of scaling than the Xbox Series.
The PS5 and Pro both have 16GB of memory and virtually with the same CPU, the only difference being in the GPU, and even then it's not as big as between the Xbox Series.
That's what Xbox should have done, they should have equipped the Series S with 16GB of ram instead of 10 (with only 8 usable) and a GPU a bit more powerful than that to better handle RT and 1440p so that it wouldn't be a burden for developers.
Personally, I understand developers who hate working on the Xbox Series S.
This would have raised the price of the Series S and likely made it more difficult to source during the pandemic.
The Series S launched for 300 dollars while the PS5 digital launched for 400 dollars. If you had to raise the price of the Series S towards 350, it would have made for an even more poor value proposition than it was.
The S series, with its GPU not at all suited to 1440p gaming and its ridiculous amount of ram, all for 300 dollars, already represented mediocre value compared with the PS5 digital edition.
With more Memory and slightly better GPU the price would probably have gone up, but not that much in reality.
If Sony managed to sell a much more powerful PS5 Digital than the series S for $399, Microsoft could well have sold an XSS with 16GB of Ram (or at least 12GB.) and a slightly better GPU for $349 without too much difficulty.
They just chose to put in 10GB and a weaker gpu to make a bigger profit on it but that turned out to be a bad choice and and and it adds more work for developers.
The S series as it stands is an anomaly.
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Total : 62 Games
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- Madden NFL 25
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PiSSeR has absolutely nothing to do with cloud.
No one is going to do PiSSeR upscaling locally out of frames taken from lossy video compression.
The work pipeline even starts well before the framebuffer due to motion vectors.
I can assure you that Microsoft never profited from the Series S just as Sony didn't profit from the PS5 Digital, which is why they raised the price to 450 and are still taking a loss on it 4 years later.
It would just be a matter of Microsoft taking an even greater loss on the Series S than they already were.
You also reach a level of diminishing returns on BOM. It's why you don't see Sony still making PS4s and just selling them for 150-200 dollars.
It's a fun name.
But if you find me a better name that allows me to say it faster than "Pe eS eS ARR" I'll use it instead.
You clearly aren't paying attention.
I'm saying it's about combining technologies. It means you don't need to have as powerful hardware on the backend.
He's a fanboy who watches DF and that's what they call it when they want to make fun of it.
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I paid attention enough. You're suggesting that a server could render the game at base resolution, compress the frames to a lossy video format (otherwise you'd need a ~6Gbit/s internet connection for an uncompressed 1080p stream alone) and then apply PiSSeR locally on the client's side out of the decompressed frames.
Which means you don't have the slightest idea how the technology works. Neither are the decompressed video frames of a quality even remotely sufficient to apply upscaling, nor is the video enough for any temporal upscaling technique to work, AI-driven techniques included.
Unless you're suggesting to apply PiSSeR on the server's side, which would be the same as using any other upscaling tech so it's an irrelevant proposition.
Of course, I love Alex Battaglia from Digital Foundry, everyone knows it.
That's literally what I said, but apparently you're struggling.
Same as any other upscaling tech? Is sony currently using upscaling tech on the server side?
The reality is they've invested in upscaling and they've invested in compression technology. It's a perfect combination, which is what I said from the get go, but again you were not paying attention before you responded.
I struggled to acknowledge you were trying to suggest doing something that's been done for the better part of the decade, yes.
Well duh, any game that uses upscaling, does so before compressing the video to send to the client side.
If you're running any PS5 game on cloud streaming and that game uses upscaling on the PS5 hardware, then it's already doing exactly what you suggested.
What video compression technology has Sony invested in? The last time I heard of a compression tech from Sony was like the XAVC from like 15 years ago. Since then, they've been using H264 and H265.
Sony is not using machine learning on their cloud servers today and neither is Microsoft.
That will change moving forward. This will allow them to run more cost effective server stacks that will allow them to expand their cloud infrastructure. If they can get anywhere near as good as Geforce Now, they'll have a consumer ready streaming platform backed by actual games.
Are you changing goalposts from "upscaling" to "AI-based upscaling"?
Even if you are, so what? "Using machine learning" for upscaling is indicative of what exactly? DLSS2.0 was terrible, and XeSS DP4a isn't that much better than FSR2 anyway. There have been instances of FSR2 working better than DLSS.
You seem to think PiSSeR is this magical tech, GPU-inside-the-power-adapter, power-of-the-cloud like tech that will revolutionize everything.
It's an upscaler that also uses DNN inference like a myriad of patents from AMD have suggested for years. And since it's using RDNA4's WMMA acceleration (and not a "custom block" like DigitalFoundry insists on), it's probably a fork of FSR4 (or maybe just FSR4 under a proprietary name).
It's still a very good upscaler that works very decently with 1080p -> 4K upscaling in games from what we've seen, but geez you make it sound like the second coming of Christ.
Nah the first person who coined it was John on the DF Direct special for the reveal of the PS5 PRO. Richard,the adult in the room, even shot the idea down initially but I guess the DF community liked it so much because they've calling it the funny name sporadically.
We were talking about PSSR... how am I moving the goalposts when that's what we were first talking about? You're ridiculous.
Again, you're not seeing that it's about cost savings.
Now you're making assumption that you have no facts to back up. Sony beat AMD to release on this.
It's not magic and no one said it was, but the reality is that you can create server farms utilizing machine learning at a much more affordable rate than simply buying more powerful GPUs.
Sony can replicate what the PS5 is able to output natively with a cheaper GPU that has machine learning on the SOC. Thsi allows them to build out server farms at a fraction of the cost. This is what allows for lower latency in region. Combined with their investments in compression tech, this also reduces their costs and increases performance.
You tackle the problem on both ends and you can try and replicate the performance of GeforceNow, which if Sony is able to do they have a much larger game library than Nvidia and new games they make themselves.
It will put them in pole position in cloud streaming. Which is my point.
What cost savings in the cloud?
The cost savings were already implemented in the PS5 Pro. Sony is achieving 2x performance with a GPU that is only 45% faster in rasterization, due to using a lower base resolution.
But somehow you think it's a magical thing for servers because... you must make up shit to prop Sony up even though you have zero idea what you're talking about.
No facts other than an AMD patent filed in 2019, a full year before the PS5 even released, describing an AI-based upscaler to run on an AMD GPU?
And Sony beat AMD at... using a GPU developed by AMD with an AI upscaler that runs using AMD's wave matrix multiply accumulate instructions? Like the one AMD has been developing for 5 years?
You think Sony did all of this by themselves without AMD? Do you even grasp at how stupid and ignorant that sounds?
LOL Sony isn't going to mandate yet another target spec that runs PS5 quality and framerates. They have the PS5 SoC for that.
Who was going to spend software dev resources for that 3rd platform in your imagination?
And "has machine learning on the SoC"? You have no idea what that means, do you? There have been games running Machine Learning inference in the original PS5 for years. Any ALU in any SoC can run machine learning inference, tensor operations are just matrix multiplications.