For the first time PlayStation Trophies will be available on PC.

[ChorizoPicozo]

Even with the release of the slim, that wasn't enough to sell the PS5 at profit, especially with the Spider-Man bundle.

but what is the point? we know that the money making is driven by the 30% cut. and for that, you need your own storefront. on PC you will primarily compete with Steam and piracy. and let's not talk about the other can of worms which is the mobile segment.

 

[mibu no ookami]

but what is the point? we know that the money making is driven by the 30% cut. and for that, you need your own storefront. on PC you will primarily compete with Steam and piracy. and let's not talk about the other can of worms which is the mobile segment.

It's a new segment in which sony can sell games and not give a cut to Steam AND to sell other 3rd party games. It's pure profit even with piracy issues.

Even if you sell 200K copies of a game at 40 dollars, that's 8 million dollars on revenue. That goes a long way towards absorbing the cost of AAA game development. When you can sell even a small number of 3rd party games on your platform, that brings even more revenue and it grows annually.

Mobile game revenue is entirely too large to ignore. I think Warzone makes a sizable percentage of its revenue from mobile alone...

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It's a new segment in which sony can sell games and not give a cut to Steam AND to sell other 3rd party games. It's pure profit even with piracy issues.

Even if you sell 200K copies of a game at 40 dollars, that's 8 million dollars on revenue. That goes a long way towards absorbing the cost of AAA game development. When you can sell even a small number of 3rd party games on your platform, that brings even more revenue and it grows annually.

Mobile game revenue is entirely too large to ignore. I think Warzone makes a sizable percentage of its revenue from mobile alone...

Sure, but since these three market segments exist (Mobile, PC, and Console), each with its own idiosyncrasies, a company will not achieve success by employing the same strategy across all of them.

in other words; sony will be xbox level of stupid to undermine their console business/market by trying to chase "bigger" segments at the expense of its console. Thats the fine line they need to figure out.

 

[Yurinka]

but what is the point? we know that the money making is driven by the 30% cut. and for that, you need your own storefront. on PC you will primarily compete with Steam and piracy. and let's not talk about the other can of worms which is the mobile segment.

Yes, Sony knows their main business is the "30%" they get from 3rd parties in their store, and this is why they say that their main focus is and will continue being their console.

In PC, despite Steam and piracy they already are making hundred of millions per year with a huge yearly growth, and as they keep releasing stuff -particularly the day one GaaS- they'll keep growing it.

Opening their own PC store (which doesn't mean to stop selling their games on other stores like Steam the same moment they release their own PC PSN store) means they'll make more money: first because of skipping at least part of the Steam cut and second because of the cut they'll get from 3rd parties.

The point is that in addition to continue growing the amount of revenue and profit they make with PS every year, to also make more way more money (both revenue and profit) outside PlayStation by reaching way more players, specially from regions where consoles aren't as popular as in the countries where PS already dominates. They want to expand in such ountries which include some of the top grossing and fastest growing countries in game revenue and userbase.

Mobile game revenue is entirely too large to ignore. I think Warzone makes a sizable percentage of its revenue from mobile alone...

At some point (way before releasing CoD Warzone mobile) they said CoD was making $3B/year. And more recently mentioned that CoD Mobile had $3B in around 3 years and a half.

So basically a billion per year, around a third of the total CoD money. They mentioned in that report that mobile made 43% of ABK revenue that quarter, almost a Billion in a quarter only from mobile.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sony's gaming strategy is completely different with the MS one.

It's practically the same at this point, just slower. And no spotlight-hogging CEO to act as the face of the brand on podcasts and interviews.

A couple years ago I'd of agreed. Currently? They've had more announcements for PC on the official blog this year than new 1P releases and (substantive) features for their console.

 

[ethomaz]

So you use Ubisoft as an example of why leaving Steam is a good thing, while we have tenfolds of examples of leaving Steam is not a good thing.

And who says the money that Ubisoft makes from PC nowadays doesn't also come from Steam? Six Siege is one of the biggest money makers from Ubisoft and tops the charts on Steam every time it goes on sale.

Also, if it did not kill sales on PC, why did Ubisoft return to Steam (even though it's a delayed Steam launch)? Sounds like a terrible idea if not being on Steam makes them more money.

I use Ubisoft because it is the only example that give us the data

Since when Ubisoft left Steam their revenue increased a lot from PC.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Yes, Sony knows their main business is the "30%" they get from 3rd parties in their store, and this is why they say that their main focus is and will continue being their console.

In PC, despite Steam and piracy they already are making hundred of millions per year with a huge yearly growth, and as they keep releasing stuff -particularly the day one GaaS- they'll keep growing it.

Opening their own PC store (which doesn't mean to stop selling their games on other stores like Steam the same moment they release their own PC PSN store) means they'll make more money: first because of skipping at least part of the Steam cut and second because of the cut they'll get from 3rd parties.

yeah, thats the idea. as i said in the other comment, these market segments have their own idiosyncrasies.

general speaking:
Consoles are more receptive to AAA single player games
PC to community/multiplayer driven games
Mobile to freemium games with a lot MTXs and Ads .

One example is how Cyberpunk 2077 made less revenue than God of War Ragnarok. around 700 and 800 million respectively.

So. the success of Helldiver 2 and the previous statement from Hulst, makes me believe that they know what they are doing. Releasing their Single Player games day one on PC will be a very stupid move.

they need to make games that cater to the idiosyncrasies of each platform and they need to position their PC storefront as a "companion" to Steam, not as a competitor. And the only way they can market that is from the perspective of Quality and Prestige content.

 

[mibu no ookami]

It's practically the same at this point, just slower. And no spotlight-hogging CEO to act as the face of the brand on podcasts and interviews.

A couple years ago I'd of agreed. Currently? They've had more announcements for PC on the official blog this year than new 1P releases and (substantive) features for their console.

Statements like this really reveal a lack of understanding and nuance.

Does Warner and Disney have the same strategy when it comes to their movie releases?

They release in theaters and then they release on streaming, but some warner media ends up on other streaming services rather than just HBO Max.

Why doesn't Netflix do more theatrical releases and why don't HBO and Disney go almost purely streaming?

Is Wolverine coming to PC Day 1?

They've had more announcements related to PC on their blog because PC is an emerging market for them. Consoles are matured, hence there is more to announce for PC.

Announcing Ghost of Tsushima on PC which is already on PS5 and has been for more than 2 years, doesn't take away from a lack of equivalent announcement on PS5. That anyone thinks that that is how business works is really telling. It's not a zero sum game, nor does it reflect which platform has their focus.

Sony is about to release a brand new PlayStation console this year. Wolverine is going to be one of the biggest games released next year. GTA6 is going to push more PlayStation consoles than maybe any game in PlayStation history.

 

[Yurinka]

Also, if it did not kill sales on PC, why did Ubisoft return to Steam (even though it's a delayed Steam launch)? Sounds like a terrible idea if not being on Steam makes them more money.

For the same reason MS also releases their stuff on Steam: to reach more users and make more money in total PC revenue, even if reducing the average of revenue per PC copy.

 

[klomzi]

I use Ubisoft because it is the only example that give us the data

Since when Ubisoft left Steam their revenue increased a lot from PC.

And now they are back on Steam and have been back on Steam for 1 year, so that means that Steam also could be the reason their revenue on PC increased.

 

[Box]

We should also expect a repeat of the situation, with the integration of XBOX achievements with PCs.

Now, these achievements are not very important and can be easily obtained using cheat software.

For example, Forza Horizon, which, in addition to hacked achievements, received a hacked record table occupied by cheaters with impossible results.

Whats the point of hacking achievements though? Nobody is going to care and you just robbed yourself of the sense of legitimate achievement

 

[Box]

Sony would make way more money off of people buying games on a PS PC Store than it would on a PS5 PS Store, because they don't have to take the hardware loss on selling the PS5 and they can still sell more peripherals.

The space is already growing and so Sony would be foolish to ignore the market as some here would suggest they do.

But they also lose the 30% from all the thrid party sales

 

[Yurinka]

yeah, thats the idea. as i said in the other comment, these market segments have their own idiosyncrasies.

general speaking:
Consoles are more receptive to AAA single player games
PC to community/multiplayer driven games
Mobile to freemium games with a lot MTXs and Ads .

One example is how Cyberpunk 2077 made less revenue than God of War Ragnarok. around 700 and 800 million respectively.

So. the success of Helldiver 2 and the previous statement from Hulst, makes me believe that they know what they are doing. Releasing their Single Player games day one on PC will be a very stupid move.

they need to make games that cater to the idiosyncrasies of each platform and they need to position their PC storefront as a "companion" to Steam, not as a competitor. And the only way they can market that is from the perspective of Quality and Prestige content.

Well, I'd say MP/GaaS (or even F2P) are the most popular in all platforms, with Switch as exception for the obvious reasons of lacking horsepower to handle certain top games.

But yes, I'd say traditionally the main differences between the 3 markets are the ones you mention. Regarding GoW and Cyberpunk, I don't remember if they even mentioned their revenue.

Cyberpunk (multi) mentioned to have sold 13M in a couple months, and GoWR mentioned 15M (exclusive) in 1 year. That was the most recent number for GoWR as I remember, from a few months ago, while Cyberpunk was 25M (around 3 years after release).

So I highly doubt GoWR made more money than Cyberpunk. I mean, Cyberpunk even had 8M preorders.

Sony would make way more money off of people buying games on a PS PC Store than it would on a PS5 PS Store, because they don't have to take the hardware loss on selling the PS5 and they can still sell more peripherals.

The space is already growing and so Sony would be foolish to ignore the market as some here would suggest they do.

Yes, but they can't release a PC PSN store without games. First they have a big PC library and fanbase. And then later, when big enough it's fair to assume they'll open the store featuring all their PC games plus 3rd party ones.

If smart, they'll make that PC PSN store cross-buy & cross-save with PS5 PSN: meaning, PS users would get PC versions of the Sony games for free (which could use to play in Steamdecks and similar) and viceversa (for PC players, buying PC games there they'd be also building a PS librabry).

Which would be a good selling point to make PC players buy in that store instead of in Steam/Epic/etc and make for them more appealing to buy a PS console.

 

[Cool hand luke]

People want to continue this myth of PlayStation eschewing consumers to PC but also stating that their games aren't selling well on PC.

Despite PS5 selling faster than PS4 and these products being high margin, which is more important than just quantity of sales.

Further they want to conflate the downfall of Xbox with Microsoft putting games on PC, when it was them putting games on PC GamePass that really made an impact, that and not releasing compelling software for a number of years in a row.

Sony recognizes they've missed out on high margins on PC and Mobile for way too long and its placed them in jeopardy. Sony is going to double down on PC and Mobile, that's just a fact. That doesn't mean they're focused less on console. It's the same thing with this idea that Sony could sustain their AAA SP budgets without diversifying their portfolio with GaaS games that bring in revenue and more importantly operating income throughout the year.

Sony is taking healthy steps to ensure its position in the future and their moves have been the most brilliant perhaps in the history of PlayStation since the PS1, but these guys are so upset that the strategy is not what got them here, but most people in business and in life will realize what got you here won't get you there.

PC software sales for AAA titles are in the toilet anyway - see any of the European sales threads for 2023. There are no 'high margins' on PC and losing customers to PC is a valid concern given the high rate of piracy, which consoles had largely conquered recently.

 

[mibu no ookami]

But they also lose the 30% from all the thrid party sales

That's ignoring that they will certainly cell 3rd party games on PC as well out of said store.

 

[mibu no ookami]

PC software sales for AAA titles are in the toilet anyway - see any of the European sales threads for 2023. There are no 'high margins' on PC and losing customers to PC is a valid concern given the high rate of piracy, which consoles had largely conquered recently.

The margin on games sales of a game that is already completed and only needs to be ported is essentially pure profit...

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Well, I'd say MP/GaaS (or even F2P) are the most popular in all platforms, with Switch as exception for the obvious reasons of lacking horsepower to handle certain top games.

But yes, I'd say traditionally the main differences between the 3 markets are the ones you mention. Regarding GoW and Cyberpunk, I don't remember if they even mentioned their revenue.

yeah, thats why I said generally speaking

Cyberpunk (multi) mentioned to have sold 13M in a couple months, and GoWR mentioned 15M (exclusive) in 1 year. That was the most recent number for GoWR as I remember, from a few months ago, while Cyberpunk was 25M (around 3 years after release).

Cyberpunk 2077 Generated $752 Million in Revenue as CD Projekt Shares Update on its Future Games

Cyberpunk 2077 and The Witcher developer CD Projekt hosted its fiscal year 2023 earnings conference, and provided details about its games and business.

techraptor.net

"Since its release, the Cyberpunk 2077 franchise has generated 3 Billion PLN (Polish złoty) in cumulative revenue including the expansion Phantom Liberty. That's approximately $752 million at the current exchange rate." -2023 financial report

 

[Cool hand luke]

The margin on games sales of a game that is already completed and only needs to be ported is essentially pure profit...

Ports aren't free, no, and there is a concept called opportunity cost that all PC port proponents are missing. The cost of porting can be better allocated elsewhere to generate a better ROI, particularly as PC continues to shrink in key western markets and Sony's port sales shrink alongside them.

 

[mibu no ookami]

Ports aren't free, no, and there is a concept called opportunity cost that all PC port proponents are missing. The cost of porting can be better allocated elsewhere to generate a better ROI, particularly as PC continues to shrink in key western markets and Sony's port sales shrink alongside them.

Ports cost a fraction of what it costs to develop a game. Most estimates have ports costing no more than a million or so dollars.

What has better ROI than PC game ports? I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts on that.

These are poorly thought out arguments.

 

[ethomaz]

Sony takes a hit on all console hardware sold.

Not true.

PS5 made profit since April 2021.
PS5 DE is the non profitable one and that is the reason why Sony only produce 15-20%.