How is Emulation supposed to be "Game Preservation"?

[xollowsob]

Counter-point op:

Why do you care if other people play legal or illegal copies of games?

What effect does piracy have on you as a legitimate consumer?

Products get discontinued all the time, that doesn't stop me from using a hammer I bought in the 90s. Why do game companies think they're different?

 

[ethomaz]

This is incorrect. An emulator by definition supports roms, dumped or not. These can be homebrew or just dumped games. RPCS3 has had Zero issues for example. The problem is providing the emulator, the necessary keys, the dumped roms or the method to get them, etc, all in the same place. That's the big issue, and that's where it goes from legal (emulating) to grey area (supporting roms) to illegal (all the rest).

I'm talking about US here, but AFAIK legislation around emulators and roms is pretty much consistent in the western world insofar as that emulators are legal, rom dumps are a grey area, and the rest is illegal when all put in context.

Edit - to add an example: If I own a copy of a game and dump that copy, it is not illegal for me to play it in an emulator, even though its a dumped rom. The emulator including that capability is not an issue whatsoever.

You are right.

Homebrew or create rom to use in emulators are indeed legal.

The other point I disagree imo.
Even if everybody seems to look as having copy of the game and dumping it as legal I don't think it is.

Dump a game copy in a rom should be illegal.
If you have a original copy of game let's say Zelda (SD Card) you should using it to play the game instead to dump it in a room.
Any commercial game dumped to ROM become illegal to me.

So I don't support the ideia that because you have the game copy you can dump it to use in emulators.
Because that exactly what lead to piracy.
You dumped rom will be shared and others will start to use that is basically piracy.

While Emulators don't understand this issue they will continue for me being illegal and supporting piracy.
99% people uses Emulators for piracy... so the software need to block that use.

If a emulator only allow to play comercial games using the original copy of the game (without any dump) then I will start to see Game Emulation as something that doesn't support piracy but for now they are not just used only for piracy as they support it as full power.

And the biggest question... why no Emulator tries to be legal and play original copies of the games instead dumped rooms? Because they want piracy.

 

[ethomaz]

Counter-point op:

Why do you care if other people play legal or illegal copies of games?

What effect does piracy have on you as a legitimate consumer?

Products get discontinued all the time, that doesn't stop me from using a hammer I bought in the 90s. Why do game companies think they're different?

But consumers are direct affected by piracy.

If not piracy games should not have strong DRM security that made a lot hardware resources be used just for that.
If not piracy developers could be getting more money (less layoffs and closures)
If not piracy we should have more games being worked (because the developers have more money for that)
If not piracy all money used to counter it should be used for well games to consumers.

These are some little exemples.
If you don't think piracy interfere in legitimate consumers then I have no ideia in what world you live... because it interferes in all parts of the industry until the final consumer.

Piracy is bad for any industry... I don't know how people can defend it.

 

[Yeona]

Emulating isn't preservation. Preservation is preservation.

Games preservation in the sense that a ROM / ISO of a game is stored digitally is a nice little side-effect of the emulation scene. The emulation scene was not created for the purpose of preserving anything, it was created to play shared game files on the Internet, and anyone arguing otherwise is lying to themselves.

On the other hand, I'll take emulation any day over those weirdos that stockpile boxes in their house so they can resell them at ten times their original price. Hoarding game boxes that appreciate in value over time, becoming accessible to a decreasing number of people, for an increasingly higher price of admission, isn't game preservation, it's elitism. Those people are always the ones talking about historic preservation of games, when really what they're interested in is showing you a picture of their over-compensating game collection.

 

[flaccidsnake]

Games preservation in the sense that a ROM / ISO of a game is stored digitally is a nice little side-effect of the emulation scene. The emulation scene was not created for the purpose of preserving anything, it was created to play shared game files on the Internet, and anyone arguing otherwise is lying to themselves.

The same evil behavior "playing shared game files on the interning" takes place on essentially every physical official console as well. Did Sony ban the PSP because it was used to play evil pirate copies of software?

 

[xollowsob]

But consumers are direct affected by piracy.

You're right. Games get better when stronger piracy exists. Companies get lazy when there are no consequences.

If not piracy games should not have strong DRM security that made a lot hardware resources be used just for that.

Optimistic. Companies would still put that in even if piracy didn't exist. If not DRM then data-scraping background apps for definite.

If not piracy developers could be getting more money (less layoffs and closures)

The industry makes the most money it has ever made ever, yet is seeing fewer lay offs than 2001.

If not piracy we should have more games being worked (because the developers have more money for that)

Relatively fewer games are being worked on than ever before.

If not piracy all money used to counter it should be used for well games to consumers.

How much money is spent preventing piracy Vs preventing bugs in a launched game?

These are some little exemples.
If you don't think piracy interfere in legitimate consumers then I have no ideia in what world you live... because it interferes in all parts of the industry until the final consumer.

Then why be a legitimate consumer? If you're paying for a worse experience, why pay? Why pay more for games than you have in the past?

Piracy is bad for any industry... I don't know how people can defend it.

Objectively, factually, financial based stats run counter to this.

Piracy isn't bad, it's human. Furthermore, the WWW was designed for the free sharing of ideas and creations, which isn't allowed to happen because corporations want money.

If free sharing of games was the norm, with the option to pay to support Devs, we would have a better industry.

 

[Zzero]

Any commercial game dumped to ROM become illegal to me.

Legality is not equal to morality. Something can be illegal but not immoral or immoral but not illegal.

Having said that, I do not know what Brazilian laws say in regards to this and in your country making but not distributing a ROM might well be illegal.

 

[ethomaz]

You're right. Games get better when stronger piracy exists. Companies get lazy when there are no consequences.

What? I can't even believe people uses that bullshit lol

Piracy isn't bad, it's human.

What level people go to defense piracy

 

[ethomaz]

Emulating isn't preservation. Preservation is preservation.

Games preservation in the sense that a ROM / ISO of a game is stored digitally is a nice little side-effect of the emulation scene. The emulation scene was not created for the purpose of preserving anything, it was created to play shared game files on the Internet, and anyone arguing otherwise is lying to themselves.

On the other hand, I'll take emulation any day over those weirdos that stockpile boxes in their house so they can resell them at ten times their original price. Hoarding game boxes that appreciate in value over time, becoming accessible to a decreasing number of people, for an increasingly higher price of admission, isn't game preservation, it's elitism. Those people are always the ones talking about historic preservation of games, when really what they're interested in is showing you a picture of their over-compensating game collection.

Exactly.

But hey people here says piracy is human and it helps the industry

At point we reached sadly.
The excuses people do to defense piracy... it is like some people defending the Earth being flat in the internet lol

 

[Systemshock2023]

Icon era would be gunning down kids sharing mixtapes in the 80s. Gotta protect Columbia/Virgin and the like. I built a 800+ record collection worth a couple of cars when I started working. Wouldn't have been possible hadn't I first started knowing the artists, with pirate mp3 CDs I played on my computer as a teen. But I guess I am an exception to the rule.

But that was more related to piracy instead of emulation. Emulation is not piracy and emulation in gaming is a small use case when compared to other industries.

 

[flaccidsnake]

Icon era would be gunning down kids sharing mixtapes in the 80s. Gotta protect Columbia/Virgin and the like. I built a 800+ record collection worth a couple of cars when I started working. Wouldn't have been possible hadn't I first started knowing the artists, with pirate mp3 CDs I played on my computer as a teen. But I guess I am an exception to the rule.

But that was more related to piracy instead of emulation. Emulation is not piracy and emulation in gaming is a small use case when compared to other industries.

MORE OF THIS PLEASE

Hacker has to pay Nintendo 25-30% of his salary for the rest of his life after being released from prison

Gary Bowser was arrested in 2020 for his involvement in the Nintendo hacking scheme

www.unilad.com

 

[Satoru]

Dump a game copy in a rom should be illegal.
If you have a original copy of game let's say Zelda (SD Card) you should using it to play the game instead to dump it in a room.
Any commercial game dumped to ROM become illegal to me.

This is where I disagree. Dumping a copy you own to play in an emulator is more than ok. I kinda put it at the same level of ripping a cd you own to listen to it's music in an MP3 player (back in the day of course). You're not sharing your license, you're not pirating, you're using your personal copy in a different device, which harms neither de developer, the manufacturer, or... Anybody. And it does help with game preservation.

Games preservation in the sense that a ROM / ISO of a game is stored digitally is a nice little side-effect of the emulation scene. The emulation scene was not created for the purpose of preserving anything, it was created to play shared game files on the Internet, and anyone arguing otherwise is lying to themselves.

This I agree with, but I let's not forget, sometimes something may be created for a purpose and find an entirely different one.

 

[Satoru]

Icon era would be gunning down kids sharing mixtapes in the 80s. Gotta protect Columbia/Virgin and the like. I built a 800+ record collection worth a couple of cars when I started working. Wouldn't have been possible hadn't I first started knowing the artists, with pirate mp3 CDs I played on my computer as a teen. But I guess I am an exception to the rule.

Very few people here so far have been against emulation though, so your comparison kind of doesn't hold any water.

It's funny though that you and flaccidpenis are almost like two testicles, always tied together, sharing the exact same opinions in most if not all subjects.

Your love for strawmaning other people's positions knows no bounds, that's for sure.

 

[Systemshock2023]

MORE OF THIS PLEASE

Hacker has to pay Nintendo 25-30% of his salary for the rest of his life after being released from prison

Gary Bowser was arrested in 2020 for his involvement in the Nintendo hacking scheme

www.unilad.com

And as Gabe Newell states "piracy is a service issue" I also spent couple hundred USD as a teen buying pirate music CDs and compilations in MP3 music I played with Winamp on PC.
Back then there was no Spotify. It would have been WAY easier for me, saving money and TIME if I could have subbed for 4 or 5 years to a music streaming service. Plus I wouldn't have spent money on pirated stuff.

 

[xollowsob]

What? I can't even believe people uses that bullshit lol

2002 has piracy so bad the FBI had to threaten people.
Nowadays piracy is legal and yet the industry thrives.

How can this be?

What level people go to defense piracy

Explain how piracy is bad to you. Show how piracy has had a negative impact on your life.

Paying £70 for games is ok because the industry says we must pay more, while they make more than ever?
Nah.

Besides, piracy is legal nowadays.

 

[flaccidsnake]

And as Gabe Newell states "piracy is a service issue" I also spent couple hundred USD as a teen buying pirate music CDs and compilations in MP3 music I played with Winamp on PC.
Back then there was no Spotify. It would have been WAY easier for me, saving money and TIME if I could have subbed for 4 or 5 years to a music streaming service. Plus I wouldn't have spent money on pirated stuff.

Spotify really highlights what's empty about the righteous copyright morality policing. By paying for Spotify, we're doing The Right Thing according to The Law, but we're hurting artists, and we're making culture shittier. You can't really DJ with Spotify. It's tedious to make any kind of creative mix other than a boring ass playlist. We're enriching a midshelf tech company and all the big RIAA labels who are major investors. Musicians with less listens than Drake are cut out of the deal. So we're hurting everyone that actually matters, and helping parasites. But thankfully precious intellectual property is respected.

 

[BroodCorp]

It’s about the communities involved.

It’s not something we have to be proud of, but most efforts to recover, localize, or archive video games have come from pirate groups. It just is what it is.

I personally don’t partake, but it’s a fool’s errand to make an enemy out of pirates. For the minuscule percentage of sales that may or may not be lost, we’re gaining a huge archival effort in the process.

 

[Nhomnhom]

It can be in certain cases as the original hardware will eventually stop working.

With that said in the vast majority of time non official emulation is pretty much just piracy.

It just sucks that companies like Sony and Nintendo are so bad at making their own older games available in a reasonable manner.

 

[ethomaz]

Besides, piracy is legal nowadays.

I don't think you even believe in his own posts here.

 

[Alabtrosmyster]

I don't care about museum style preservation much, a game is something you play.

Controller being different than the OG? I have had third party controllers pretty often in the past... so no biggie.