How is Emulation supposed to be "Game Preservation"?

[flaccidsnake]

What? What does being “easier” have to do with anything? When did I say anything about ease of access? And why did you ignore the entire part where I said “x games are not sold through official channels”? How does that relate to piracy in any way? I buy a lot of games day 1 for full price, you know why? Because they’re actually sold by the publishers, so they’ll definitely see the money in the end…Where is Pokémon Stadium being sold at by Nintendo?

Your statement makes NO SENSE!!!

I don’t get it, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? It doesn’t matter if there are a million eBay listings if they’re all overpriced. And buying them is still not preservation

I don't have a problem with this, but you gotta know that Nintendo doesn't give a fuck about your personal morality here. To them, protecting (aka hoarding) IP is everything because maybe they'll use Stadium as a monthly Nintendo Switch Online incentive next month, or maybe there will be a Stadium easter egg scene in Detective Pikachu 2 and there will be a surge in interest. It's not just the one game. For them it's like a statistical concept that something in their catalog will hit on an unexpected zeitgeist moment and they'll rake in lucky profits. All the publishers think this way. There's never any reason for them to concede Their Property to the public domain.

If you appreciate the social benefits of emulation and the broader 'game preservation' community out there, it's better to err on the side of supporting the rights of the community over the publishers.

 

[Darth Vader]

What? What does being “easier” have to do with anything? When did I say anything about ease of access? And why did you ignore the entire part where I said “x games are not sold through official channels”? How does that relate to piracy in any way? I buy a lot of games day 1 for full price, you know why? Because they’re actually sold by the publishers, so they’ll definitely see the money in the end…Where is Pokémon Stadium being sold at by Nintendo?

Let me get this straight because I may have misunderstood: you don't want to pay X for a physical legitimate copy of the game; Nintendo doesn't get money from that one copy; how do you propose you get a copy of said game without pirating it?

 

[historia]

Let me get this straight because I may have misunderstood: you don't want to pay X for a physical legitimate copy of the game; Nintendo doesn't get money from that one copy; how do you propose you get a copy of said game without pirating it?

You play the game on https://youtube.com

 

[JAHGamer]

I don't have a problem with this, but you gotta know that Nintendo doesn't give a fuck about your personal morality here. To them, protecting (aka hoarding) IP is everything because maybe they'll use Stadium as a monthly Nintendo Switch Online incentive next month, or maybe there will be a Stadium easter egg scene in Detective Pikachu 2 and there will be a surge in interest. It's not just the one game. For them it's like a statistical concept that something in their catalog will hit on an unexpected zeitgeist moment and they'll rake in lucky profits. All the publishers think this way. There's never any reason for them to concede Their Property to the public domain.

If you appreciate the social benefits of emulation and the broader 'game preservation' community out there, it's better to err on the side of supporting the rights of the community over the publishers.

It has nothing to do with morality, or the rights of a community or a publisher… it’s all transactional. If you want more games to be made, then you buy games. Thats the only reason I buy a lot of games day 1, I don’t want to hear stories like “x game won’t get a sequel or DLC because no one bought it”. Me buying directly from a publisher can result in more games being created, me buying from a reseller on eBay does literally nothing. I don’t get how you all are complicating something so simple.

Let me get this straight because I may have misunderstood: you don't want to pay X for a physical legitimate copy of the game; Nintendo doesn't get money from that one copy; how do you propose you get a copy of said game without pirating it?

I will pirate it? Yes it is piracy, but like I said earlier, the end result is the same.

Buy from a reseller - Nintendo makes $0
Download from internet - Nintendo makes $0

If there was a legitimate alternative, I wouldn’t have to pirate it. I don’t get how paying 5x MSRP helps anyone? It only encourages the scummy behavior of bad actors, which is ironically counterintuitive to preservation.

TLDR - if there’s an official way to buy it, then buy it. If not, there’s no reason to “feel bad” for pirating

 

[Darth Vader]

I will pirate it? Yes it is piracy, but like I said earlier, the end result is the same.

Buy from a reseller - Nintendo makes $0
Download from internet - Nintendo makes $0

If there was a legitimate alternative, I wouldn’t have to pirate it. I don’t get how paying 5x MSRP helps anyone? It only encourages the scummy behavior of bad actors, which is ironically counterintuitive to preservation.

TLDR - if there’s an official way to buy it, then buy it. If not, there’s no reason to “feel bad” for pirating

So my comment was correct. Pirates can also say "well I wouldn't buy it anyway, so they don't see my money regardless". You don't seem to realise how big of a slippery slope that argument is. And just so we're in the clear because you have a massive issue understanding my positions for some reason, I'm not fundamentally disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing out that that's not a good argument at all.

And I'm sorry to say but the collectibles market exists for pretty much everything, from cars, to games, to music, etc. it doesn't mean I agree with it.

 

[flaccidsnake]

It has nothing to do with morality, or the rights of a community or a publisher… it’s all transactional. If you want more games to be made, then you buy games. Thats the only reason I buy a lot of games day 1, I don’t want to hear stories like “x game won’t get a sequel or DLC because no one bought it”. Me buying directly from a publisher can result in more games being created, me buying from a reseller on eBay does literally nothing. I don’t get how you all are complicating something so simple.

This is really besides the point. Of course I'm not saying don't buy games, get all your games from shady websites. I mostly play new games, and I buy all the games I play. But it's still a net positive to have unauthorized games floating around illicitly on the internet. I don't want to see big publishers using the FBI and weaponizing the courts to crack down on people sharing games on the internet. With Yuzu it's even worse because they were strongarmed into conceding on rights already protected by the courts. They're not the ones responsible for spreading Tears of the Kingdom around before release day. Those pre-release Zelda roms could be more enjoyably played on a hacked Switch than Yuzu anyway.

 

[JAHGamer]

So my comment was correct. Pirates can also say "well I wouldn't buy it anyway, so they don't see my money regardless". You don't seem to realise how big of a slippery slope that argument is. And just so we're in the clear because you have a massive issue understanding my positions for some reason, I'm not fundamentally disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing out that that's not a good argument at all.

And I'm sorry to say but the collectibles market exists for pretty much everything, from cars, to games, to music, etc. it doesn't mean I agree with it.

No, with all due respect, the only one with a big misunderstanding here is you. You keep trying to conflate what I’m saying with modern AAA pirates, why?? How?? It’s not a slippery slope in the slightest, there’s a very clear distinction between the two scenarios.

Scenario 1 - Ghost of Tsushima launches on PC on May 16th, it immediately gets cracked because Sony never used DRM. Someone pirates it and tries to justify it by saying “I wasn’t gonna buy it anyway”. If the game had DRM, there’s a good chance they would’ve actually bought it, and Sony loses out on $60.

In this scenario, there’s a possibility for Sony to make money.

Scenario 2 - Pokémon Platinum is 15 years old, it’s not being sold by Nintendo in any official capacity. The only way to buy it is from a reseller online.

In this scenario, whether I buy it or not, it’s literally not possible for Nintendo to make money.

This is not a slippery slope AT ALL!!! Collecting rain water is technically illegal, so it’s like saying collecting rain water is the same as running in a super market and stealing gallons of water. No, it’s not the same, and just because you collect rain water, doesn’t mean you’re on a slippery slope to rob supermarkets.

 

[flaccidsnake]

Should it be criminalized to jailbreak a console or to develop jailbreaks?

 

[JAHGamer]

Should it be criminalized to jailbreak a console or to develop jailbreaks?

no

 

[Darth Vader]

No, with all due respect, the only one with a big misunderstanding here is you. You keep trying to conflate what I’m saying with modern AAA pirates, why?? How?? It’s not a slippery slope in the slightest, there’s a very clear distinction between the two scenarios.

Scenario 1 - Ghost of Tsushima launches on PC on May 16th, it immediately gets cracked because Sony never used DRM. Someone pirates it and tries to justify it by saying “I wasn’t gonna buy it anyway”. If the game had DRM, there’s a good chance they would’ve actually bought it, and Sony loses out on $60.

In this scenario, there’s a possibility for Sony to make money.

Scenario 2 - Pokémon Platinum is 15 years old, it’s not being sold by Nintendo in any official capacity. The only way to buy it is from a reseller online.

In this scenario, whether I buy it or not, it’s literally not possible for Nintendo to make money.

This is not a slippery slope AT ALL!!! Collecting rain water is technically illegal, so it’s like saying collecting rain water is the same as running in a super market and stealing gallons of water. No, it’s not the same, and just because you collect rain water, doesn’t mean you’re on a slippery slope to rob supermarkets.

Ok mate, there's no point in arguing.

 

[Zzero]

What? What does being “easier” have to do with anything? When did I say anything about ease of access? And why did you ignore the entire part where I said “x games are not sold through official channels”? How does that relate to piracy in any way? I buy a lot of games day 1 for full price, you know why? Because they’re actually sold by the publishers, so they’ll definitely see the money in the end…Where is Pokémon Stadium being sold at by Nintendo?

Your statement makes NO SENSE!!!

I don’t get it, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? It doesn’t matter if there are a million eBay listings if they’re all overpriced. And buying them is still not preservation

On whether 100 dollars justifies "preserving" a game via pirating it? I disagree with you. You can pirate it if you want, but don't bother justifying it with "preservation" because that just makes you look like a bullshitter.

 

[JAHGamer]

On whether 100 dollars justifies "preserving" a game via pirating it? I disagree with you. You can pirate it if you want, but don't bother justifying it with "preservation" because that just makes you look like a bullshitter.

You're tripping! Why are you trying to boil this discussion down to the actions of an individual? Emulation and piracy IS preservation, these are just objective truths. My personal reasons are irrelevant, idk why you're calling me a "bullshitter"

 

[Box]

How is not wanting to pay 100 dollars game preservation? This isn't classic film. There's not one copy rotting away, forgotten in a church basement, there's a hundred or more listings of it on ebay at any one time.


Nintendo already has a working Gamecube emulator, Sunshine was running on it in the 3D Allstars collection. They don't bring more games over because they want to re-release them individually for 60 dollars each.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF PIRACY, ITS A STATEMENT OF FACT

My Uncle doesn't work at Nintendo, so I have no say in how they conduct buisness.

 

[ethomaz]

Buy from a reseller - Nintendo makes $0
Download from internet - Nintendo makes $0

In both cases Nintendo already got it cut from that copy.

 

[Old Gamer]

Should it be criminalized to jailbreak a console or to develop jailbreaks?

No. But you'll lose your warranty.

 

[Box]

In both cases Nintendo already got it cut from that copy.

Yes if it was easily available we wouldn't have a need for emulation, Game was right it really is a service issue.

 

[Zzero]

You're tripping! Why are you trying to boil this discussion down to the actions of an individual? Emulation and piracy IS preservation, these are just objective truths. My personal reasons are irrelevant, idk why you're calling me a "bullshitter"

Emulation and piracy help preservation, but not for popular titles. Its obscure stuff that you've never heard of that actually gets saved. Your personal reasoning is entirely right. Are you being honest and saying that you want Pokemon cheap or are you a liar and saying that you are helping to preserve the game.

 

[JAHGamer]

Emulation and piracy help preservation, but not for popular titles. Its obscure stuff that you've never heard of that actually gets saved. Your personal reasoning is entirely right. Are you being honest and saying that you want Pokemon cheap or are you a liar and saying that you are helping to preserve the game.

Neither.....

I asked "Why are you trying to boil this discussion down to the actions of an individual?"... I've never once made that claim that I'm helping to preserve anything so how can you call me a liar or a bullshitter? Emulation and piracy is objectively preservation. Me pirating old Pokemon games is not preserving them....and no one that does so is acting as if that's the case. The people who dumps and hosts the roms and built the emulators are the ones preserving them. Everyone else that takes advantages of these services is a pirate, but that's because our only other option is to overpay a 3rd party, which 99% of people don't want to do, and we shouldn't be shamed for that. Even if we all did want to buy them from resellers...there are a finite amount of copies out there, and they're no longer in production. So it's literally impossible for everyone who wants to play it to be able to play it "legally". So you're wrong, emulation and piracy do help preserve even popular titles.

 

[Dr Bass]

Neither.....

I asked "Why are you trying to boil this discussion down to the actions of an individual?"... I've never once made that claim that I'm helping to preserve anything so how can you call me a liar or a bullshitter? Emulation and piracy is objectively preservation. Me pirating old Pokemon games is not preserving them....and no one that does so is acting as if that's the case. The people who dumps and hosts the roms and built the emulators are the ones preserving them. Everyone else that takes advantages of these services is a pirate, but that's because our only other option is to overpay a 3rd party, which 99% of people don't want to do, and we shouldn't be shamed for that. Even if we all did want to buy them from resellers...there are a finite amount of copies out there, and they're no longer in production. So it's literally impossible for everyone who wants to play it to be able to play it "legally". So you're wrong, emulation and piracy do help preserve even popular titles.

You are not entitled to anything you want, just because you can't afford it, or don't want to pay for it.

 

[Zzero]

Letting people play something isn't preservation. How do you not get that?