it's not that Sony's PC strategy is bad, it's just that is bad executed

Nhomnhom

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I'd like to see some strong proof on this other than feelings based evidence. Sony trying to look for the GaaS pot of gold pivoting their SP studios has slowed single player development more than anything.
Nixes and contractors have been taking care of ports. ND was arrogant and should have left them with the Uncharted and last of ports.
You ask me for proof and the proceeded to spread misinformation... It's pretty clear already and we have plenty of evidence that it's not just Nixxes and contractors handling the ports.

We know PC versions of PS5 games are being developed in parallel now and only a very naive person would think otherwise.

Everything Sony does makes it pretty clear that internally PC is of the highest priority to them.
 
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I love how these people continue to ignore the reality that these PC ports of single player games are profitable and that the ROI is so worth it that Sony wants to double down on PC Ports...

Once you acknowledge that these ports cost them little, that even with Steam royalties, these games are pure operating income, and that they're not disruptive to console sales, you begin to realize that no, Sony hasn't made a mistake nor is their strategy bad...

Pre-cope strategy if I've ever seen it.

To think that the same thing which eventually helped contribute (among other factors) a complete collapse of Xbox console sales, won't happen to PlayStation because...reasons? Is rather funny IMHO. By your logic, there is no reason for Sony to ignore doing Day 1 PC for all of their titles, and maybe 2-3 years from then folks like yourself and @Yurinka will see the writing on the wall that we've all been seeing with Xbox consoles.

Maybe you're of the impression that the fallout wouldn't be as bad for PlayStation because of its larger install base? Maybe that's true; however, a drop-off is still a drop-off. And a drop-off will happen, and would also cascade its effects down the customer tiers, because different customer tiers have different buying habits and buying power.

Also where is this "amazing PC profit" for the recent string of ports? Where were these amazing sales for Rift Apart on PC? The Last of Us Remake? The Last of Us 2 Remastered? Heck, even Horizon Forbidden West has fallen off significantly on Steam and it's only been a couple of weeks. Destiny 2 revenue is also not nearly as strong now as it was a year or so prior.

Arguably the only SIE-published PC game bringing in big money ATM is Helldivers 2, also ironically perhaps the one game that will convince them to push Day 1 for non-GAAS as well, ignoring the obvious pitfalls that would arise.

As for the PC strategy itself...I never said bringing games to PC was a mistake. I've said that the timing and cadence of the ports has increasingly become a problem, and THAT part is revealing itself to be true.
 

mibu no ookami

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Pre-cope strategy if I've ever seen it.

To think that the same thing which eventually helped contribute (among other factors) a complete collapse of Xbox console sales, won't happen to PlayStation because...reasons? Is rather funny IMHO. By your logic, there is no reason for Sony to ignore doing Day 1 PC for all of their titles, and maybe 2-3 years from then folks like yourself and @Yurinka will see the writing on the wall that we've all been seeing with Xbox consoles.

Again, you continue to conflate causation and correlation.

The Xbox collapsed yes. Did releasing games on PC cause the collapse? What evidence do you have on that? Is there a difference between releasing day 1 on PC and releasing day 1 on PC GamePass, allowing someone to play all of your games in some cases for as cheap as 1 dollar?

You say my logic states that Day 1 should make sense, but that is a straw man argument. I do think that releasing ALL of their games Day 1 to include their single player games COULD have some negative effect, though I don't think it would be the end of the world.

The Xbox collapse comes from having NO system sellers on Xbox AND putting all the games they DO have regardless of quality on PC GamePass Day 1 requiring NO investment to play, not just not buying the console, but in this case not even buying the game.


Maybe you're of the impression that the fallout wouldn't be as bad for PlayStation because of its larger install base? Maybe that's true; however, a drop-off is still a drop-off. And a drop-off will happen, and would also cascade its effects down the customer tiers, because different customer tiers have different buying habits and buying power.

No, I think the fallout for PlayStation wouldn't be as bad because single player consumers want to play on console. It's not the size of the userbase, but what the userbase wants.

You continue to suggest that there is this potential drop off despite the sales of Sony's PC games not being tremendous. Where are these consumers that you suggest are leaving?

Also where is this "amazing PC profit" for the recent string of ports? Where were these amazing sales for Rift Apart on PC? The Last of Us Remake? The Last of Us 2 Remastered? Heck, even Horizon Forbidden West has fallen off significantly on Steam and it's only been a couple of weeks. Destiny 2 revenue is also not nearly as strong now as it was a year or so prior.

All operating income is good income. PC games sell for years not just at launch. When Last of Us Season 2 comes out will TLOU P1 and TLOU P2 be top steam sellers? What will you say then? Again there is going to be a Horizon show coming out as well, which will boost Horizon sales (Zero Dawn and Forbidden West). Destiny 2 is in the final years of its life cycle, but it continues to be a top selling game on both PC and PS5 AND will get a massive boost with Finale Shape...

Arguably the only SIE-published PC game bringing in big money ATM is Helldivers 2, also ironically perhaps the one game that will convince them to push Day 1 for non-GAAS as well, ignoring the obvious pitfalls that would arise.

As for the PC strategy itself...I never said bringing games to PC was a mistake. I've said that the timing and cadence of the ports has increasingly become a problem, and THAT part is revealing itself to be true.

You ASSUME that they don't understand that Helldivers is a GaaS game, yet its the first game to release day and date on PC. It's like you ignore the fact that they had a different strategy for Helldivers and then assume they'll learn the wrong lessons from it.

The timing and cadence is increasingly becoming a problem? Is there a single player game that released on PC within a year of console? Where is this increasing problem and what have the ramifications been? It's in your head and you should have the humility to recognize that.

But you've yet to humble yourself on the PSVR2 PC support that you were ADAMANT was streaming despite there being no evidence of that either.
 

Neversummer

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You ask me for proof and the proceeded to spread misinformation... It's pretty clear already and we have plenty of evidence that it's not just Nixxes and contractors handling the ports.

We know PC versions of PS5 games are being developed in parallel now and only a very naive persona would think otherwise.

Everything Sony does makes it pretty clear that internally PC is of the highest priority to them.
ND was working on

TLOU1 Remake co develop w Nixxes
TLOU2 Remake co develop w Nixxes (likely after the disaster of TLOU Online ND gave Nixxes TLOU2 Remake to focus on other project which is why TLOU2 Remake PC port taking long) what a disaster
TLOU3
TLOU Online
A new IP

When ND should’ve been working on New IP & TLOU3 & having the people who would’ve been working on both remakes to bring back Jak & Daxter smh.

Also SM2 had a PC build in the works & the game was out for 1-2 month like these games are definitely being worked on w PC parallely & it’s probably why the games as of 2023 & beyond been coming out buggy compared to PS4 & taking much longer due to the lack of focus of PS.
 
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Neversummer

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Also where is this "amazing PC profit" for the recent string of ports? Where were these amazing sales for Rift Apart on PC? The Last of Us Remake? The Last of Us 2 Remastered? Heck, even Horizon Forbidden West has fallen off significantly on Steam and it's only been a couple of weeks. Destiny 2 revenue is also not nearly as strong now as it was a year or so prior
Supposedly Sony seeing “amazing PC profit” that they reported missing sells target by 4 million & right after the pandemic & PS5 are available PS5 are seeking sharp sells drop year over year.

Also “amazing PC profit” that Sony is telling there investors there profits are low & need to be better in the future. Idk but a way to increase profit easily is to drop more then 1 or 0 major game per year? Maybe drop 3-4 major game & 3-4 AA smaller games from first party? I mean Nintendo has the highest profits how is that, well they drop like 7-10 games from Nintendo every year in 2022 they drop 7 games & in 2023 they drop like 7-10 & in 2024 there looking to have a slower output but still dropping 3-4 games from Nintendo & when the Switch 2 release they will go back to having a 7-10 output for atleast the first 3 years if not it looks like there preparing by partnering w Bandai Namco to solely make Nintendo games so they’ll likely keep the 7-10 games per year.
Xbox double down in gaming while being last. Nintendo double down in gaming while being the market leader & PS has yet to show there doubling down & instead bought imploding no name, no ip, no cadence studios & Nixxes to port & takeover what makes PS special & ability to compete

Nixxes should’ve been a remake/remaster studio especially since Sony knew Bluepoint was gonna make a new ip that would take 5-7 years & has a budget of 200 million which is the opposite of what Sony PS needs. Bluepoint would make these god tier remakes every 2-3 years smh
 

mibu no ookami

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We know PC versions of PS5 games are being developed in parallel now and only a very naive persona would think otherwise.

Everything Sony does makes it pretty clear that internally PC is of the highest priority to them.

It's crazy that in 2024 we have to argue that games are developed on computer. That anyone would argue otherwise reflects a complete lack of understanding on how GDKs and devkits work...
 
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Yurinka

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Once again, stop conflating what it is you or your indie dev team do, with what the AAA game development industry does, when it comes to game development pipelines. Your methodology != the entire industry's.
I did work at Ubisoft and have friends or former coworkers working (or who have worked in recent years) in many AAA publishers even including heads of studios, and in case of big ass Sony internally developed games ported to PC, a least one that I can remember in a lead position (one of their producers).

I also work in gamedev related universities and accelerators with people from AAA studios who are the other teachers or mentors. And also host gamedev related conferences and round tables plus museum exhibitions where I invite some of this people. I'm also in gamedev chat groups and associations, plus attend to industry events and congresses where I talk to more people, including top tier people from the industry on worldwide level.

And next year will be my 20th year in the industry as dev. So I know very well how most people works, even hosted round tables about it with people in lead positions at top AAA and mobile publishers.

And no, I never said the entire industrry works like I do with my team (teams in this case). This is another stuff you are mading up.

Naughty Dog have outright stated they retooled their pipeline to facilitate PC development more efficiently and from an earlier part of the development process. And if ND have done that, you can believe other studios have as well, such as Guerrilla Games.
No, ND didn't change a shit because isn't needed, pretty simply Iron Galaxy kept the PC specific codebase that Iron Galaxy did for the PC ports in the game engine, to make easier Iron's Galaxy job in the next game.

Maybe Nixxes or Jetpack shared with Iron Galaxy some PC small specific stuff they did for their ports to save additional job.

ND only needs a producer to have an hour long weekly meeting (maybe every two weeks) to overview Iron Galaxy's progress when making a port. Maybe a UI designer in a meeting or two to overview and approve their proposals for the related little changes required for a PC port.

Plus in case they have specific questions, someone (prety likely some high profile designer, programmer or artist who worked in the original game) to reply them some mail or maybe provide them some extra documentation they may need.

Nixxes & others are still involved in the port and handle QOL implementations & Windows OS, DX12U, CUDA etc. specific optimizations of game code & functions, but you're dumb to think they are literally taking full/completed PS5 code, starting from square one, and translating all the libraries and code to PC or re-designing all model assets, textures, sound effects etc. for PC. They aren't.

Ad considering there are various LODs and textures for PC that PS5 wouldn't require, guess what that means for the main development studio? Absorption of some costs of an eventual PC port into the main budget of the game, not directly listed in the porting costs budgets allocated to port studios like Nixxes.

This isn't hard to understand; you're just being oblivious to critical thinking to hawk graphs with incomplete data (& sometimes outdated data).
Nixxes, Iron Galaxy or Jetpacks are the porters. Their job is to do the ports, which in case you don't know it's the whole process of adapting a game to a different platform, including any changes and additions made in that new version. The lead sends them the code and assets of the original games and the porters deliver a build in a new platform.

Lead studios hire porters because don't want to handle with that work and prefer to outsource them to some other team (which normally is also cheaper) and focus instead on making new games.

We saw Sony pay them around a couple millions to do so, which is way more than enough to do so such ports, not only a few minor tweaks and additions that require a few lines of code. If that would be the case they'd save the costs of hiring another team and would do it themselves.

Not repeating what I just said above because it more or less applies here, not to mention your and Sony's claims not exactly manifesting the way the vast majority of gamers would expect them to (in part because it doesn't seem like they have been manifesting, or if they have they are mainly for some GAAS that might've been delayed or cancelled, as an example).
Sony claims and does what it's optimal for them which aligns with a ton of other companies do, and what their (and most in other companies) devs prefer: to have some lead teams focused on making new games and to have separate support / porting teams to handle the ports.
 

mibu no ookami

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ND was working on

TLOU1 Remake co develop w Nixxes
TLOU2 Remake co develop w Nixxes (likely after the disaster of TLOU Online ND gave Nixxes TLOU2 Remake to focus on other project which is why TLOU2 Remake PC port taking long) what a disaster
TLOU3
TLOU Online
A new IP

When ND should’ve been working on New IP & TLOU3 & having the people who would’ve been working on both remakes to bring back Jak & Daxter smh.

Also SM2 had a PC build in the works & the game was out for 1-2 month like these games are definitely being worked on w PC parallely & it’s probably why the games as of 2023 & beyond been coming out buggy compared to PS4 & taking much longer due to the lack of focus of PS.

Nixxes was not at all involved with TLOU1 Part 1 Remake. It was developed by Iron Galaxy.

People (yourself for example) have taking headlines and misconstrued statements. When Naughty Dog said they were going to develop games with PC in mind didn't mean they were going to do their own PC ports. It just meant that they were going to consider keyboard and mouse inputs when designing games. There is a specific quote to this effect.

Supposedly Sony seeing “amazing PC profit” that they reported missing sells target by 4 million & right after the pandemic & PS5 are available PS5 are seeking sharp sells drop year over year.

Also “amazing PC profit” that Sony is telling there investors there profits are low & need to be better in the future. Idk but a way to increase profit easily is to drop more then 1 or 0 major game per year? Maybe drop 3-4 major game & 3-4 AA smaller games from first party? I mean Nintendo has the highest profits how is that, well they drop like 7-10 games from Nintendo every year in 2022 they drop 7 games & in 2023 they drop like 7-10 & in 2024 there looking to have a slower output but still dropping 3-4 games from Nintendo & when the Switch 2 release they will go back to having a 7-10 output for atleast the first 3 years if not it looks like there preparing by partnering w Bandai Namco to solely make Nintendo games so they’ll likely keep the 7-10 games per year.
Xbox double down in gaming while being last. Nintendo double down in gaming while being the market leader & PS has yet to show there doubling down & instead bought imploding no name, no ip, no cadence studios & Nixxes to port & takeover what makes PS special & ability to compete

Nixxes should’ve been a remake/remaster studio especially since Sony knew Bluepoint was gonna make a new ip that would take 5-7 years & has a budget of 200 million which is the opposite of what Sony PS needs. Bluepoint would make these god tier remakes every 2-3 years smh

You're CLEARLY conflating two things together.

Sony had a hardware goal of selling 25 million units in one fiscal year. They're short of that. What does that have specifically to do with PC software sales?

In Sony's entire history they've never sold 25 million units in a single fiscal year, but somehow now that's a failure that is attributable to PC software? You've got to be smarter than that.

You seem to be in favor of Bluepoints remakes. You feel that Demon's Souls on PS5 was more profitable than these PC Ports? Where did you come up with that conclusion?
 

Neversummer

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Problem with Sony dropping PS wall garden. Soon Xbox will have an open piece of hardware that allowed you to play PS games when they get ported to PC even more reason to just invest in PC or Steam/Steamdeck instead of a PS console. Nintendo is safe because they keep there wall garden & would never allow other competitor to play Nintendo console without the Nintendo console (hardware).

Now that PS games on PC you’ll be able to play them on Meta Quest. Sony really fucked up PS & they essentially put the dagger on PSVR. Play PS games on Meta Quest AR outside a PS console or a PSVR LMAO Sony is getting played these competitors are play 4D chess running around Sony face there’s no way Sony can be this gullible. Why would you buy a PSVR at this point your better of buying a hardware that’s not Sony to play Sony PS games best on crazy.

Nintendo do following its true & strived strategy that continues to show succes for 30+ years will lead Nintendo, PC & Apple to be the only close wall garden platform while PS withers away slowly like Xbox

PS tried to seek profit & growth like a rabbit sprinting rushing to only get tired at the end while Nintendo moving slowly like a turtle will make them win this race LMAO it’s just comical how Sony made PS do a complete 180 in gaming when all they needed to do is repeat PS4 at a bigger scale.

You have to be blind to think PS is in a great position in gaming considering there platform & storefront wall garden are drop down & what made PS special PS no longer has & instead the best way to play PS is out of there own platform & storefront.
 

Puff

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Problem with Sony dropping PS wall garden. Soon Xbox will have an open piece of hardware that allowed you to play PS games when they get ported to PC even more reason to just invest in PC or Steam/Steamdeck instead of a PS console. Nintendo is safe because they keep there wall garden & would never allow other competitor to play Nintendo console without the Nintendo console (hardware).

Now that PS games on PC you’ll be able to play them on Meta Quest. Sony really fucked up PS & they essentially put the dagger on PSVR. Play PS games on Meta Quest AR outside a PS console or a PSVR LMAO Sony is getting played these competitors are play 4D chess running around Sony face there’s no way Sony can be this gullible. Why would you buy a PSVR at this point your better of buying a hardware that’s not Sony to play Sony PS games best on crazy.

Nintendo do following its true & strived strategy that continues to show succes for 30+ years will lead Nintendo, PC & Apple to be the only close wall garden platform while PS withers away slowly like Xbox

PS tried to seek profit & growth like a rabbit sprinting rushing to only get tired at the end while Nintendo moving slowly like a turtle will make them win this race LMAO it’s just comical how Sony made PS do a complete 180 in gaming when all they needed to do is repeat PS4 at a bigger scale.

You have to be blind to think PS is in a great position in gaming considering there platform & storefront wall garden are drop down & what made PS special PS no longer has & instead the best way to play PS is out of there own platform & storefront.


Soon you can play all PlayStation exclusives on Xbox. The awkward moment when the market leader is the weakest performer.

Sony was lured into the ‘trap’
 

mibu no ookami

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ND only needs a producer to have an hour long weekly meeting (maybe every two weeks) to overview Iron Galaxy's progress when making a port. Maybe a UI designer in a meeting or two to overview and approve their proposals for the related little changes required for a PC port.

We may never know what ultimately went down between Naughty Dog and Iron Galaxy.

Was the issue the timeline of the games release and the quick turnaround time of a PC port in time for the show's air date and not enough time to do proper QA?

They obviously knew they were in trouble at some point and that is why they delayed the game.

I don't think Sony will use Iron Galaxy again, but it is wholly possible that it wasn't entirely their fault. The game released in September for PS5, meaning it wasn't done until like August. Depending on when Iron Galaxy actually got the code for the game, they may have only had 6-7 months to port the game.

They could have had these meetings and they might have known for quite some time that they were behind the gun on this. What is most likely needed was that they bring in Nixxes to help get the port out on time.
 

Neversummer

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Soon you can play all PlayStation exclusives on Xbox. The awkward moment when the market leader is the weakest performer.

Sony was lured into the ‘trap’
Not only Xbox soon you will be able to play PlayStation first party on Xbox, PC including Steam & Meta Quest & likely Apple in the far future.

Not only can you play PlayStation outside a Sony platform/storefront but in some cases these other platform & storefront are cheaper w better option with a much bigger library.

Sony has made there platform & storefront the worse way to play & invest making PS console Sony owns hardware the worst ecosystem out of other direct competitor. The only thing PS has that Xbox, Meta & Apple doesn’t have is a rich & quality first party studios that make games PS gamers buy on there console & Sony is slowly diminishing it just to chase small short term profit.
 
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Yurinka

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We may never know what ultimately went down between Naughty Dog and Iron Galaxy.

Was the issue the timeline of the games release and the quick turnaround time of a PC port in time for the show's air date and not enough time to do proper QA?

They obviously knew they were in trouble at some point and that is why they delayed the game.

I don't think Sony will use Iron Galaxy again, but it is wholly possible that it wasn't entirely their fault. The game released in September for PS5, meaning it wasn't done until like August. Depending on when Iron Galaxy actually got the code for the game, they may have only had 6-7 months to port the game.

They could have had these meetings and they might have known for quite some time that they were behind the gun on this. What is most likely needed was that they bring in Nixxes to help get the port out on time.
We know Iron Galaxy (whose co-CEO is the former SIE guy Adam Boyes) ported Uncharted Legacy of Thieves and TLOUP1 to PC.

We also know TLOUP1 was delayed and released March 28, just before the end of a FY and when the tv show was being aired (the last episode was released March 12), which was bumping the TLOU1&2 sales on console.

Around these same days, Iron Galaxy also released the Metroid Prime remaster (February 2) for Switch, while also working on Rumbleverse and who knows if something else more. Maybe they were too busy and couldn't start working on the TLOU1 port until too late, something pretty common. Add maybe the ND delay sending them the code too late, something also pretty common when multiple teams work on a project: you get delayed because have dependencies on other team who also got delayed.

Obviously something went wrong with the TLOUP1 PC port because even if delayed and still got released on a rushed and unfinished state, it clearly needed more polishing and optimization time. I assume Sony allowed a delay but wanted to have it on time for the FY and the tv show.

But well, at least they learnt from it and know they can't release a port (or game) again in such state. Because even if in this case was ported by someone else, it's still a ND (and Sony) IP/game and they have a high prestige and quality standards.

In this cases, the devs are always aware that the game was not polished enough. Games and ports get released, and even the most polished ones they always have things the devs wanted to put in but didn't have time, or some bug they didn't have to fix, or something they'd have to polish more. Devs always want more time.

But the timings and the budgets are set by the higher ups, must be reasonable and they have to stop at some point. In this case, the port already had a delay, so probably wanted to release it there not only to fit the budget but also to have the early launch numbers on time for the FY report and also getting benefited from the tv show bump.

Maybe the higher ups decided to release it this date and few whatever needed later (as usual), but the port ended being on a suboptimal state at launch.
 
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RE4-Station

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Honestly PC ports should just be mostly PS3 remasters that get PS5 ports as well since PS3 BC seems to not be a thing this gen. Wiyh the occasional PS4 port like Dreams or anything that would do well on PC and of course day on live service games that arent stuff like Gran Turismo
 

Gods&Monsters

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The Xbox collapsed yes. Did releasing games on PC cause the collapse? What evidence do you have on that? Is there a difference between releasing day 1 on PC and releasing day 1 on PC GamePass, allowing someone to play all of your games in some cases for as cheap as 1 dollar?

You say my logic states that Day 1 should make sense, but that is a straw man argument. I do think that releasing ALL of their games Day 1 to include their single player games COULD have some negative effect, though I don't think it would be the end of the world.

The Xbox collapse comes from having NO system sellers on Xbox AND putting all the games they DO have regardless of quality on PC GamePass Day 1 requiring NO investment to play, not just not buying the console, but in this case not even buying the game.
This is all a bunch of bullshit. You're on GAF a lot, who says they didn't get a Xbox because of game pass PC Day 1? I see thousands of comments saying you don't need a Xbox because all games are on PC. It's not the PC GP Day 1 that changed that. I literally never heard someone say the PC GP Day 1 changed everything. Just PC was enough to start the collapse.

The collapse started way before GP was even a thing anyway. They bought the games on Steam and gave up on the console. I don't know why you're trying to spin it was PC GP Day 1 that started it. It doesn't even make sense.
 

Yurinka

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Honestly PC ports should just be mostly PS3 remasters that get PS5 ports as well since PS3 BC seems to not be a thing this gen. Wiyh the occasional PS4 port like Dreams or anything that would do well on PC and of course day on live service games that arent stuff like Gran Turismo
I think they now are building their PC catalog and fanbase to later populate their onw PC store and launcher. While they are growing and their userbase is still relatively small, they mosttly release PS5 and PS4 titles that require almost no changes or improvements, so the budget is very low.

Once they have all the PS5 and PS4 titles they want on PC (always keeping a distance of 2+ years for non-GaaS SP games versus their original PS release), and their userbase in PC and PS5 would be enough, I think they'll start to make PS5+PC remakes and maybe some remaser of key PS2 and PS3 titles still not available to be played natively in PS5+PC, timed to be released more or less at the same time than movie or tv show adaptations.

Could be stuff like Motorstorm and Killzone, maybe merging the different ones in a single remade game as they did with recent Wipeout titles. And well, with more sales potential I can see remakes of GoW1 and Uncharted 1 coming too.
 

Yurinka

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The Xbox collapsed yes. Did releasing games on PC cause the collapse? What evidence do you have on that? Is there a difference between releasing day 1 on PC and releasing day 1 on PC GamePass, allowing someone to play all of your games in some cases for as cheap as 1 dollar?

You say my logic states that Day 1 should make sense, but that is a straw man argument. I do think that releasing ALL of their games Day 1 to include their single player games COULD have some negative effect, though I don't think it would be the end of the world.

The Xbox collapse comes from having NO system sellers on Xbox AND putting all the games they DO have regardless of quality on PC GamePass Day 1 requiring NO investment to play, not just not buying the console, but in this case not even buying the game.
I think Xbox collapsed due to a series of reasons combined:
  • Lack of the need to buy their games because of being ALL OF THEM and specialy DAY ONE not only in PC, but also in GP
  • Too long period of time with a tiny amount of great 1st party titles
  • Lack of extra reasons to remain in their console, with at least enough appealing console exclusive games from previous generations not available in PC, console VR games or stuff like that
  • PS4 & PS5 getting way more great console exclusives, and many multiplatform games performing better in PS when they were told Xbox was more powerful
I think part of their fanbase has been moving ot PC (something MS wanted) and oher part has been moving to PS, now in the future even more if they see MS will start releasing all their stuff there.

And MS will be happpy with this because they will make way more money than when they were only making Xbox games.
 

mibu no ookami

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This is all a bunch of bullshit. You're on GAF a lot, who says they didn't get a Xbox because of game pass PC Day 1? I see thousands of comments saying you don't need a Xbox because all games are on PC. It's not the PC GP Day 1 that changed that. I literally never heard someone say the PC GP Day 1 changed everything. Just PC was enough to start the collapse.

The collapse started way before GP was even a thing anyway. They bought the games on Steam and gave up on the console. I don't know why you're trying to spin it was PC GP Day 1 that started it. It doesn't even make sense.

GAF isn't what determines why someone does anything.

When Starfield came out A LOT of people played it on PC GamePass since they were able to play it for like a dollar. I myself even tried it on for almost nothing on GeforceNow, mostly just to test out GeforceNow. And while GAF doesn't matter this certainly was a narrative on GAF.

It's not just that it was PC GamePass, but that created the lowest barrier of entry to buy Xbox games and there was really little reason to buy an Xbox at all.

As I said, the collapse started because they couldn't create any system sellers as well.

I swear some people read what they want and ignore everything else you say just to create a straw man.
 

Vertigo

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Xbox’s failure is due to gamepass killing revenues and studios. It’s far more simple
 
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Nhomnhom

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Problem with Sony dropping PS wall garden. Soon Xbox will have an open piece of hardware that allowed you to play PS games when they get ported to PC even more reason to just invest in PC or Steam/Steamdeck instead of a PS console. Nintendo is safe because they keep there wall garden & would never allow other competitor to play Nintendo console without the Nintendo console (hardware).

Now that PS games on PC you’ll be able to play them on Meta Quest. Sony really fucked up PS & they essentially put the dagger on PSVR. Play PS games on Meta Quest AR outside a PS console or a PSVR LMAO Sony is getting played these competitors are play 4D chess running around Sony face there’s no way Sony can be this gullible. Why would you buy a PSVR at this point your better of buying a hardware that’s not Sony to play Sony PS games best on crazy.

Nintendo do following its true & strived strategy that continues to show succes for 30+ years will lead Nintendo, PC & Apple to be the only close wall garden platform while PS withers away slowly like Xbox

PS tried to seek profit & growth like a rabbit sprinting rushing to only get tired at the end while Nintendo moving slowly like a turtle will make them win this race LMAO it’s just comical how Sony made PS do a complete 180 in gaming when all they needed to do is repeat PS4 at a bigger scale.

You have to be blind to think PS is in a great position in gaming considering there platform & storefront wall garden are drop down & what made PS special PS no longer has & instead the best way to play PS is out of there own platform & storefront.

We are about to find out that instead of going all in on PSVR Sony will now be supporting PCVR including the Quest.

To me it seems people haven't yet realized the entire cost of PlayStation supporting PC, it pretty much killed their output going forward.

After being on a roll for over 10 years as soon as they started to support PC things dried up completely in no time.
 
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