[LEAK] PlayStation Games PC Port Budgets Revealed! Spider-Man 2 PC Port to Release in FY 2025

Nhomnhom

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Yep you make an interesting point. I think Valve's steam machine idea was poorly marketed and executed (relying heavily on third parties), but a first party version of that could come along and eat sony's lunch if they're not careful.

Since the Index and Deck, Valve have been sharpening their hardware muscles for years now, while also sneakily being the only platform that can play both Xbox and Playstation exclusives.

The moment Valve decides to make a first party steam console marketed to casuals, and at a affordable price point like the deck, Playstation could be in trouble.

PC gaming is Playstation's only competitor at this point. As it is only growing and becoming popular in regions Playstation once was (Japan)

"According to the report, there were 1.1 billion PC players and 611 million console players in 2022. The 2.2% decline was mostly due to a 4.2% drop in the console gaming market, as the PC games market increased by 1.8%."
As I explained in the other topic I made specifically about this with the Steam Machines Valve realized that Linux gaming simply wasn't nearly as mature as they needed it to be. They continued to work for many more years until something like the Steam Deck became viable and they'll continue to work on improving their solution.

Valve is a privately owned company that is capable of thinking long term, that is how they keep outmaneuvering everyone. Notice how Valve did not try to desperately force cloud gaming, did not rushed into a Gamepass like services and how they didn't panic over what Epic Store tried to do to them.

Things Valve did:
- Spent over a decade working on making Linux gaming viable.
- Made their own gaming distro.
- Got into hardware manufacturing with the Steam Controller/Link, Index and Deck.

It's pretty obvious they'll make a move towards console-like hardware again at some point.
 
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24 Jun 2022
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Once the PlayStation identity/differentiation is lost the console market will be wide open for Steam to dominate it (or even worse MS with Windows if they ever become minimally competent and realize they had a massive advantage all along that they never managed to leverage because of Xbox).


I bet the crossroad was between following Xbox lead and continuing as they were. Clearly those wanting to follow Xbox lead won.

True. MS could open up Xbox to Windows in everything but alternative storefronts (particularly gaming-wise, so no Steam) and still otherwise keep to the traditional console business model. That could be the differentiator they needed all along, particularly if Sony are dumb enough to reduce the value proposition of their own console by porting all 1P titles to PC with smaller windows.

People don't understand that it's not the casuals who are going to shift, but the core enthusiasts. And THEY are the early adopters. The moment many of them realize they can wait a few months or even get the new 1P AAA banger on Steam Day 1, they are NOT buying a PS5 Pro and they are NOT buying a PlayStation 6. What's the point? Virtually all the big 3P titles come to PC now as well, they get all of Microsoft's games Day 1, and they have actual exclusives (League of Legends, VALORANT, Counterstrike 2, Only Up, Wallpaper Simulator, Half Life: Alyx just to name a few) that have never and likely will never come to any console (that includes tons of AA and indie titles).

It's Sony's way of effectively signaling that PC is the best place to play and they're going to struggle very hard with early adoption for new hardware if they ever officially shift that way OR if enough core enthusiasts figure out that's the plan. And future consoles like PS6 will be lucky to reach PS3 numbers, but potentially likely lower. PS3 had actual exclusives that appealed to a wide gamut of core enthusiasts, especially later into that gen when 360 started dropping the ball on that front.

Also can we take a moment to talk about how the simultaneous PC development is potentially going to hurt game innovation and optimization specific to PlayStation hardware for the 1P titles? Again, same issues we've been seeing with Xbox. I doubt we ever get Sony 1P games that push the limits of their respective hardware, the way games like TLOU, GT4 and TLOU2 managed to do. Games that punched well above their weight in the industry as far as production values, fidelity, AI, physics etc. were concerned.

You simply can't do that when optimizing not just for two console profiles (PS5 & Pro), but also a litany of PC configurations with in ways very different means of API access calls, I/O integration routines, and various bottlenecks not present with embedded console systems. Like I said, it'll really be the end of an era and PlayStation's best years left behind.

But hey, anything for an extra dollar, amirite? The PC ports are "free money", as certain deluded people want to say. Anyway, I'll still wait until some of this stuff is officially clarified before finalizing thoughts on the matter.

You are right, PlayStation users are PlayStation's main userbase. If Sony starts to lose them, I doubt they can be replaced by Steam users.

I personally don't care if the games I play are available elsewhere, but I care if the games I play start to have more and more technical issues which weren't there in past releases.

By adding more platforms into the development process you automatically have to

make compromises (engines need to be adapted and become less specialized for a single-target platform; QA costs increase OR the worst but more probable scenario, the same budget is split between platforms; etc.)=> reduction in quality

distribute resources differently => reduction in quality

We have seen it with cross-gen first-party games, we are continuing seeing it with current releases of multiplatform games. People were willing to accept them at the beginning, because of the pandemic, but are already starting to not accept such sloppy work anymore.

Steam users simply are much cheaper. And by that, I mean they have a much lower ARPU - average revenue per user - than PlayStation users. This should be obvious simply WRT the hardware purchases, but even if you remove the hardware out of the picture, the same holds true when looking at software.

We know that only 30% of Steam users buy games full price, but that's out the portion of users who even BUY games! You don't need money to make a Steam account, and lots of free games (be they rom hacks, F2P etc.) have Steam integration. Some people make accounts simply for the community aspect.

The point is, a Steam user will never provide the ARPU to Sony that even a mid-end ARPU PlayStation user does, but with this PC strategy (if critical changes aren't made) they risk turning at least a decent portion of the HIGH ARPU PlayStation owners into primarily Steam users. People have to stop look at only the install base counts: yes future PlayStation systems would still sell to many casuals and mainstream types, but they are among the lowest ARPU in the ecosystem. And most of their ARPU would just come from the console purchase itself, something that is low margin for Sony in terms of profits.

So they're basically setting up a proverbial death trap for themselves, where they bleed high ARPU hardcore/core enthusiasts who see little reason to buy the console anymore, and who will shift the vast majority of their spending power to non-PlayStation ecosystems like Steam. Them buying Sony's games on Steam will always be an inferior solution compared to buying them from the PlayStation Store, on PlayStation consoles, for Sony. The Valve cheerleaders here and abroad who claim they enjoy Sony games and PlayStation as a platform need to get their heads out of the sand and recognize the grim reality of what they're incessantly begging for.
 

Nhomnhom

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True. MS could open up Xbox to Windows in everything but alternative storefronts (particularly gaming-wise, so no Steam) and still otherwise keep to the traditional console business model. That could be the differentiator they needed all along, particularly if Sony are dumb enough to reduce the value proposition of their own console by porting all 1P titles to PC with smaller windows.

People don't understand that it's not the casuals who are going to shift, but the core enthusiasts. And THEY are the early adopters. The moment many of them realize they can wait a few months or even get the new 1P AAA banger on Steam Day 1, they are NOT buying a PS5 Pro and they are NOT buying a PlayStation 6. What's the point? Virtually all the big 3P titles come to PC now as well, they get all of Microsoft's games Day 1, and they have actual exclusives (League of Legends, VALORANT, Counterstrike 2, Only Up, Wallpaper Simulator, Half Life: Alyx just to name a few) that have never and likely will never come to any console (that includes tons of AA and indie titles).

It's Sony's way of effectively signaling that PC is the best place to play and they're going to struggle very hard with early adoption for new hardware if they ever officially shift that way OR if enough core enthusiasts figure out that's the plan. And future consoles like PS6 will be lucky to reach PS3 numbers, but potentially likely lower. PS3 had actual exclusives that appealed to a wide gamut of core enthusiasts, especially later into that gen when 360 started dropping the ball on that front.

Also can we take a moment to talk about how the simultaneous PC development is potentially going to hurt game innovation and optimization specific to PlayStation hardware for the 1P titles? Again, same issues we've been seeing with Xbox. I doubt we ever get Sony 1P games that push the limits of their respective hardware, the way games like TLOU, GT4 and TLOU2 managed to do. Games that punched well above their weight in the industry as far as production values, fidelity, AI, physics etc. were concerned.

You simply can't do that when optimizing not just for two console profiles (PS5 & Pro), but also a litany of PC configurations with in ways very different means of API access calls, I/O integration routines, and various bottlenecks not present with embedded console systems. Like I said, it'll really be the end of an era and PlayStation's best years left behind.

But hey, anything for an extra dollar, amirite? The PC ports are "free money", as certain deluded people want to say. Anyway, I'll still wait until some of this stuff is officially clarified before finalizing thoughts on the matter.
If your store is good (like Steam is) you can even open up for other competing store and it won't matter.

Xbox store on PC sucked for ages, they couldn't make a decent store to save their lives apparently.

If all the effort going to the Xbox had be going to improving their store to make it competitive they would be better positioned to have a competitive hardware. The Series S and X is like the dumbest idea when you consider what other option they had.

As for Sony it's hardly looks like the same company that was able to turn the PS3 mostly on the back of their devs and exclusives. PS3 was poorly priced in comparison to the Xbox that entire gen and even being outperformed on most multiplataform titles, how were they able to recover? Now suddenly all of the sudden they start taking exclusive for granted and underestimating their importance. Imagine Nintendo without it's exclusives, why does Sony believes they can afford not to have them?

My conclusion is that Sony thinks once they got Xbox beat they don't have competition anymore.
 
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Cool hand luke

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PC gamers are miserly and undiscerning. There's no point in releasing a day one port because they won't value it appropriately, and X-Men will absolutely not be day and date with PC.

Now that those facts are out of the way:

The costs they haven't added to these budgets are those related to the erosion of the PS ecosystem as an exclusive destination for high quality titles. That's seemingly lost on Jimbo, but it's very hard to model for.

It's even harder to turn down incremental profit in a corporate setting, but luckily, PC gamers contribute paltry sums to the Sony coffers and can be cut at the drop of a hat. One hopes the next CEO does exactly that.
 
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Nhomnhom

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PC gamers are miserly and undiscerning. There's no point in releasing a day one port because they won't value it appropriately, and X-Men will absolutely not be day and date with PC.
No way of knowing if a 2030+ game will be day and date with PC. PC ports started to happen in 2019 and now we already have a leak suggesting Spider-man 2 will be ported to PC in 2024 and Sony games being announced as PS5/PC games by Sony on stage.
 

flaccidsnake

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PC gamers are miserly and undiscerning. There's no point in releasing a day one port because they won't value it appropriately, and X-Men will absolutely not be day and date with PC.

Now that those facts are out of the way:

The costs they haven't added to these budgets are those related to the erosion of the PS ecosystem as an exclusive destination for high quality titles. That's seemingly lost on Jimbo, but it's very hard to model for.

It's even harder to turn down incremental profit in a corporate setting, but luckily, PC gamers contribute paltry sums to the Sony coffers and can be cut at the drop of a hat. One hopes the next CEO does exactly that.
game of the year 2023 was a massive hit as a pc exclusive.

"undiscerning" PC players came out for the highest rated game of all time
 
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Yep you make an interesting point. I think Valve's steam machine idea was poorly marketed and executed (relying heavily on third parties), but a first party version of that could come along and eat sony's lunch if they're not careful.

Since the Index and Deck, Valve have been sharpening their hardware muscles for years now, while also sneakily being the only platform that can play both Xbox and Playstation exclusives.

The moment Valve decides to make a first party steam console marketed to casuals, and at a affordable price point like the deck, Playstation could be in trouble.

PC gaming is Playstation's only competitor at this point. As it is only growing and becoming popular in regions Playstation once was (Japan)

"According to the report, there were 1.1 billion PC players and 611 million console players in 2022. The 2.2% decline was mostly due to a 4.2% drop in the console gaming market, as the PC games market increased by 1.8%."

To be fair, there may be 1.1 billion PC players, but there are only 130-something million Steam users. Steam is by far the biggest storefront & launcher on PC, so they must be calculating the other ~ 1 billion based on total number of active PCs out in the world (assuming they are also gamers), or factoring in things like free internet gaming sites, and various F2P games that don't have a presence on storefronts like Steam.

The buying power of the average PC gamer, particularly Steam user, is much lower than that of someone on PlayStation or Nintendo, or even Xbox (tho less so in that platform's case). That doesn't change suddenly because there's account for 1.1 billion PC players, because that is now spending power spread out across a ton of different storefronts, websites, and hardware-agnostic platforms. Whereas with console gaming, it's all effectively centralized to three main platforms.

Aside that, I agree about the threat Valve/Steam present to companies like Sony/SIE, and how SIE's PC porting strategy is foolishly empowering Valve.

If your store is good (like Steam is) you can even open up for other competing store and it won't matter.

Xbox store on PC sucked for ages, they couldn't make a decent store to save their lives apparently.

If all the effort going to the Xbox had be going to improving their store to make it competitive they would be better positioned to have a competitive hardware. The Series S and X is like the dumbest idea when you consider what other option they had.

As for Sony it's hardly looks like the same company that was able to turn the PS3 mostly on the back of their devs and exclusives. PS3 was poorly priced in comparison to the Xbox that entire gen and even being outperformed on most multiplataform titles, how were they able to recover? Now suddenly all of the sudden they start taking exclusive for granted and underestimating their importance. Imagine Nintendo without it's exclusives, why does Sony believes they can afford not to have them?

My conclusion is that Sony thinks once they got Xbox beat they don't have competition anymore.

Yeah it's like for the PC crowd who keep going "just bring all your 1P over here to Steam, Sony!", are conveniently forgetting that it was the 1P exclusives that helped PS3 recover that gen and set up the PS4 for success. That's how these PC people even got games like TLOU, Bloodborne etc. that they have been begging to come to the platform in the FIRST place!! And it's pretty abhorrent, because a lot of those PC gamers today were once console gamers some of whom probably bought systems like PS3 BECAUSE of those exclusives. Yet now they're going to conveniently pretend PlayStation doesn't need that, because they as gamers have mostly moved over to other ecosystems like Steam.

Then they hide behind fake altruistic mantras like "it's pro-consumer!", like they're being legally barred from buying a PlayStation console. No, it's their choice to not want to buy one, and actual "pro-consumerism" would be a company like Sony giving every incentive to get that player into the PlayStation ecosystem. That requires exclusives, real exclusives, not "console exclusive" but otherwise on Steam Day 1 as well.

Because doing that would incentivize platforms like Steam or EGS to also compete. Maybe you'd get more games made by Valve more consistently for a change. Which means more choice for you, the customer. THAT'S real pro-consumerism, not this fake crap mouthpieces and bobbleheads keep repeating when Microsoft suddenly start campaigning on the buzzword so they could buy ABK.
 
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Darth Vader

I find your lack of faith disturbing
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I think Apple should port MacOS to computers other than Apple machines. They are losing a lot of install base, and it would be as easy as simply porting the product. They already made it with x86 in mind, so it's a no-brainer. Look at how many installs they are losing to Microsoft!

And while we're at it, why doesn't Valve make Counter-Strike 2 available on the Epic Games Store? After all, they could branch out to another market, one where users may hypothetically not have a Steam account to begin with. So much money left on the table!
 

flaccidsnake

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Good, because your preferred platform is next on the chopping block after Xbox is eliminated.
It's actually you rooting against your own preferred platform, which is remarkable. The live service games are still coming. Marathon is still the biggest announced Playstation game. Concord and Fairgame$ are important projects from newly acquired studios. They're all day 1 on PC.

Are you rooting for their success or failure?
 
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I think Apple should port MacOS to computers other than Apple machines. They are losing a lot of install base, and it would be as easy as simply porting the product. They already made it with x86 in mind, so it's a no-brainer. Look at how many installs they are losing to Microsoft!

And while we're at it, why doesn't Valve make Counter-Strike 2 available on the Epic Games Store? After all, they could branch out to another market, one where users may hypothetically not have a Steam account to begin with. So much money left on the table!

Completely agreed. Apple and Valve are just leaving money on the table. It's about the dollar at the end of the day. Screw culture, screw vision, screw identity. Throw all of it away.

Hope people realize you're being sarcastic
 

Umar

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Wouldnt Fy 2025 be from April 2025 to March 2026?