Naughty Dog has stopped development on The Last of Us Online. Also an image showing The Last of Us Online’s menu leak

DForce

Well-known member
24 Jun 2022
316
675
Yes, Uncharted 4 and TLOU2 were developed at the same time and this is why Uncharted 4 came out in 2016 and TLOU2 came out in 2020. You guys should stop dreaming.

Also The original TLOU came out 2 years after Uncharted 3 which was your typical development time during that era. So, no they were not fully developed in parallel. One game is in pre production while other one is in full production. This is standard game development since forever.

Of course, they were not parallel but they were in development at the same time. That's how The Last of Us Part II leak first surfaced when Nolan North said it was in development while he was working on Uncharted 4.


If one is in pre-production and the other is not, then both games are still in development. This just proves our point; they can develop multiple projects at the same time.
 

Yurinka

Veteran
VIP
21 Jun 2022
7,778
6,664
Of course, they were not parallel but they were in development at the same time. That's how The Last of Us Part II leak first surfaced when Nolan North said it was in development while he was working on Uncharted 4.


If one is in pre-production and the other is not, then both games are still in development. This just proves our point; they can develop multiple projects at the same time.
According to the ND presidents, U3 and TLOU were under production at the same time. They had a hard time, and decided to have a single big game under full production at the same time following them.

So after them they focused on Uncharted 4 and after it TLOU2, while smaller teams worked on Left Behind and Lost Legacy. They later had one or two small teams overviewing / supporting mostly outsourced remasters, remakes and pc ports while most of the studio was focused on something else.

As usual in videogames development, when the main part of the team (mostly programmers and testers) are completing the final development part of the game, other very small part of the team work on the preproduction of the next game of the project (producers, designers, concept artists, etc). With the idea of that when the most of the people complete their job on the production of a game can jump to the production of the next one, without having to wait to complete preproduction sitting on desk without doing anything.

During TLOU2 they had their SP and MP teams. Around 2019 they announced that MP wouldn't be included in TLOU2 and instead would become a standalone TLOU game to be released after TLOU2.

It's fair to assume that part of the TLOU2 (SP) team once completed TLOU2 didn't move to TLOU Online, but instead moved to start another SP game. We know isn't TLOU3, because Druckmann said he wrote a first draft of the script to have it ready if some day in the future they developed it, but that then (after TLOU2) they weren't working on it.

So if they started one of their current SP games just after TLOU2, it should be a new IP or an Uncharted game (ND presidents said they were interested on making new IP and continuing with Uncharted and TLOU). But when they announced the TLOU Online delay they said to have multiple new games more under development at the same time in addition to TLOU Online, being at least one of them (we know now that at least two) being SP.

ND, like all SIE teams kept growing these years. We don't know exactly at which point they started these two new SP games but maximum one of them should be soon after they shipped TLOU2, that would mean around >3 years of development. It's fair to assume that instead of growing from 1 to 3 teams directly they first grew to 2 and some time later to 3.

Meaning, pretty likely this 2nd SP game pretty likely entered production relatively recently somewhere before they announced the TLOU Online delay.

Decided to do it as a part of a company wide strategy of going all in into GaaS.
No, ND decided to do it because they already had delayed TLOU2 multiple times and had to decide between to delay it more cutting their scope, to remove the MP mode or to branch it out rebooting it as a MP only game where they could go beyond their initial scope.

ND did choose the 3rd option. And nowadays AAA MP only game means GaaS.

Even investing in these GaaS studios probably came at the expense of investing in more traditional studios and games. We'll see in the next few years how their GaaS strategy will playout, so far not looking good at all as they can't even release the games.
No, because they kept investing on non-GaaS more than before. And they did show in their long plans (covered until 2026) that they continue growing their investment in non-GaaS games.

On top of that, most of the known 1st + 2nd party SIE games than have been greenlighted/started development during the Jimbo + Hermen era aren't GaaS.

Their strategy was to have more than 25 PS Studios under development (now + at least 3 Bungie games) being a dozen of them GaaS of different IPs. Out of that dozen, one has been cancelled, so 11 left. They published until now MLB, GT and Firewall (not sure if they count Destiny here) and very soon will be Helldivers too. So there are 7 left (6 if counting Destiny).

They would be:
  • Concord
  • Fairgame$
  • Marathon
  • Deviation's game
  • London Studios' new IP ('the game the studio always wanted to do')
  • Horizon Online
If Marathon and the other WIP new Bungie IPs aren't counted, then probably the other one is the Firesprite MP game with car combat (rumored to be Twisted Metal).

Some of these games will be published before April 2026 (I'd bet Concord, Fairgame$, Marathon), other ones later (I'd bet it's the case of Deviation's game, maybe London's game, too).

I have no idea about the Horizon Online game. Its leaked artstyle looks like crap, it's rumored to be a MMORPG codeveloped by NC Soft (Sony recently signed a deal with them, so would make sense), and its director went back to Guerrilla in early 2018. So I assume it's the next one to be announced, but let's hope they change its artstyle to make it more similar to the Horizon one.
 
Last edited:

Kokoloko

Veteran
Icon Extra
21 Jun 2022
6,002
4,718
Why couldnt Sony invest in them more to make more studios for Naughty Dog like they did with Insomniac.. they should expand studios like ND and Santa Monica
 

Gamernyc78

MuscleMod
28 Jun 2022
20,386
16,652
There is some incompetency happening at Sony and I Blame upper management. Tlou mp and any other Uncharted mp have been successful so not taking advantage of that is asinine. You make a survey asking about a ND BR or mp component for tlou and it'll be a resounding "yes, please let's get one" Scrapping years of this work is fucking crazy and incompetent asf. You could release whatever tf thy have now and it'll sell and ppl would love it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Airbus and Danja

Gamernyc78

MuscleMod
28 Jun 2022
20,386
16,652
Why couldnt Sony invest in them more to make more studios for Naughty Dog like they did with Insomniac.. they should expand studios like ND and Santa Monica
ND been expanded to two teams and more ppl. It's like two teams and ICE team is housed there although other devs are involved. They have more than 400 ppl there.

 

AshHunter216

Banned
8 Jan 2023
4,556
7,628
Paul Tassi has an anti Playstation article and tweets written about this as usual, yet people think the media is full of PS fanboys.
 
  • they're_right_you_know
Reactions: KiryuRealty

Vertigo

Did you show the Darkness what Light can do?
26 Jun 2022
5,541
5,006
Valhalla dlc being free has a lot to do with the game also reaching 15 million sold. Tlou remaster will have upgraded assets, lighting etc… a bit more work. Both will most likely be ported to pc at a later time. I see no issue here. Pro-consumer arguments are junk… it’s just to beg for free shit. Pay up. Sony isn’t really taking risks like that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gamernyc78

Darth Vader

I find your lack of faith disturbing
Founder
20 Jun 2022
7,365
10,933
There is some incompetency happening at Sony and I Blame upper management. Tlou mp and any other Uncharted mp have been successful so not taking advantage of that is asinine. You make a survey asking about a ND BR or mp component for tlou and it'll be a resounding "yes, please let's get one" Scrapping years of this work is fucking crazy and incompetent asf. You could release whatever tf thy have now and it'll sell and ppl would love it.

It would have been so easy to just do Factions 2 and add paid skins, tags, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

MuscleMod
28 Jun 2022
20,386
16,652
It would have been so easy to just do Factions 2 and add paid skins, tags, etc.
Yes!!! Hell yes!!! And they would have made some quick, easy money for months. Ppl love factions, shit I bought all the dlc for it.

They should finish off what they have, edit in some capacity if need be and add it to tlou Remastered as mp orrrrr remake og mp and add it with new dlc in form of cosmetics. This shit going to sell millions again especially with $10 upgrade.
 

Killer_Sakoman

Veteran
21 Jun 2022
2,104
2,015
Of course, they were not parallel but they were in development at the same time. That's how The Last of Us Part II leak first surfaced when Nolan North said it was in development while he was working on Uncharted 4.


If one is in pre-production and the other is not, then both games are still in development. This just proves our point; they can develop multiple projects at the same time.
Changing argument I see. You guys claim parallel development and that one game doesn't affect the other and act as if Naughty Dogs can release that failed GaaS and still release another single-player game the year after. Our argument from the beginning was that if Naughty Dogs work on the GaaS then we won't see their Single-player game before 2027. Now, we won't get the GaaS and the next single-player will not come before 2027. Jim and Hulst did really fuck it up for us.
 

ksdixon

Dixon Cider Ltd.
22 Jun 2022
1,887
1,211
Before I read all the announcement and thread discourse in a moment... Initial reaction is: BULL. SHIT. COP-OUT EXCUSE.
 
  • they're_right_you_know
Reactions: JAHGamer

ksdixon

Dixon Cider Ltd.
22 Jun 2022
1,887
1,211
We coulda had a great new single player game by now or at least next year, if they hadn't wasted all this time.

This GAAS fad chasing has been a disaster.

Exclusive single player games is what PlayStation fans want and expect, real exclusive ones of the best quality. Get back to it.
I agree with that in principle but goddam it if any of them had a shot as GAAS it was this IP, forget the rest. It even had a pre-established MP prototype-game as a highly undervalued and undersupported test run. People have followed that Factions 1 MP across 3 consoles already.
 

Yurinka

Veteran
VIP
21 Jun 2022
7,778
6,664
Why couldnt Sony invest in them more to make more studios for Naughty Dog like they did with Insomniac.. they should expand studios like ND and Santa Monica
They did, and apparently did it/are doing it with almost all if not all their studios.

The Jimbo era started with ND having a single big team working on a single team for big new AAA (TLOU2) and now they had 3 main teams (TLOU Online + 2 SP games) wihile having a small one with smaller stuff (remasters/remakes/ports/dlc) as did before.

To grow AAA studios to the point of creating an additional full AAA team track takes time, specially when done properly.

They also did it to most of their other studios during the Jimbo era:
  • Guerrilla went from working in 1 game to being now working on 3 projects (at some point they were working at the same time on Horizon CoM, Burning Shores, Horizon 3, Horizon Online)
  • SSM also has multiple projects at the same time (minimum they had at the same time the next GoW, GoWR Valhalla, apparently Cory's new IP)
  • Polyphony grew from 1 team to 2 (one releases fixes and updates with new content for the current GT, the other works in the next GT game).
  • Firesprite also grew in amount of teams
  • XDEV also grew, particularly their Japanese games, who now works in way more games at the same time because now they cover teams from the whole Asia
  • I'd bet Nixxes also works in more projects at the same time than before joining Sony
  • Bungie we don't know if they created a new team after joining Sony, but already were growing (they are working in at least 3 teams) and continued growing after being bought. Even if fired these 100 people they have open job positions in a dozen different areas
  • I'd say the remaining ones to grow in number of games (or confirmed) being developed at the same time are Bend, Media Molecule and London Studio. Team Asobi we know they are working on a main game and many prototypes and expect to grow fast to 100 people and pause growing there at least for a while.
I just want to say that the live service bet Jim Ryan had is thankfully being killed
Fake news:
  • Most of the dozen GaaS that we know until now were already under development when Jim Ryan became CEO. The bet was already there.
  • Most of the (known) PS Studios games greenlighted during the Jimbo era aren't GaaS
  • The dozen Ps Studios GaaS (+ maybe the 3 Bungie ones, I assume weren't counted there) continued alive in the last Sony fiscal report Q&A with investors, this is the only one cancelled
  • ND were the ones who decided to branch out the TLOU2 MP mode to a standalone AAA MP only game (which as of today means GaaS), not Jim Ryan

When he wasn't?
Almost always.

Now it's a official fact that they cancelled it, so I accept it. As decent human beings do, using facts to back their own points and accepting other facts from the other side.

Instead of what trolls do, which is personally attacking those who don't agree not sure if waiting for an aggresive reply in the other side or something.
 
Last edited:

DForce

Well-known member
24 Jun 2022
316
675
According to the ND presidents, U3 and TLOU were under production at the same time. They had a hard time, and decided to have a single big game under full production at the same time following them.

So after them they focused on Uncharted 4 and after it TLOU2, while smaller teams worked on Left Behind and Lost Legacy. They later had one or tw small teams overviewing / supporting mostly outsourced remasters, remakes and pc ports while most of the studio was focused on something else.

As usual in videogames development, when the main part of the team (mostly programmers and testers) are completing the development of the game, other very small part of the team work on the preproduction of the next game of the project (producers, designers, concept artists, etc). With the idea of that when the most of the people complete their job on the production of a game can jump to the production of the next one without having to wait to complete preproduction sitting on desk without doing anything.

During TLOU2 they had their SP and MP teams. Around 2019 they announced that MP wouldn't be included in TLOU2 and instead would become a standalone TLOU game to be released after TLOU2.

It's fair to assume that part of the TLOU2 (SP) team once completed TLOU2 didn't move to TLOU Online, but instead moved to start another SP game. We know isn't TLOU3, because Druckmann said he wrote a first draft of the script to have it ready if some day in the future they developed it, but that then (after TLOU2) they weren't working on it.

So if they started one of their current SP games just after TLOU2, it should be a new IP or an Uncharted game (ND presidents said they were interested on making new IP and continuing with Uncharted and TLOU). But when they announced the TLOU Online delay they said to have multiple new games more under development at the same time in addition to TLOU Online, being at least one of them (we know now that at least two) being SP.

ND, like all SIE teams kept growing these years. We don't know exactly at which point they started these two new SP games but maximum one of them should be soon after they shipped TLOU2, that would mean around >3 years of development. It's fair to assume that instead of growing from 1 to 3 teams directly they first grew to 2 and some time later to 3.

Meaning, pretty likely this 2nd SP game pretty likely entered production relatively recently somewhere before they announced the TLOU Online delay.

2022
June 9th - Neil Duckmann said we would hear more about The Last of Us Online in 2023.
July 15th - Bungie deal officially closes.

2023
May 12th - Deviation Games hit with layoffs.
May 24th - Reports of Jim Ryan using Bungie to "rigorously vet its upcoming live service games."
May 26th - Naughty Dog reports the game is delayed. Jason Schreier reports most of the team has moved on to other projects.
Oct 2023 - Game put on ice. Reported layoffs.

It's possible the vetting process happened early in the year because I don't think they would just layoff people immediately.

Jason Blundell left Deviation Games in September 2022 and maybe that was related to the Bungie evaluation.
 

Gamernyc78

MuscleMod
28 Jun 2022
20,386
16,652
2022
June 9th - Neil Duckmann said we would hear more about The Last of Us Online in 2023.
July 15th - Bungie deal officially closes.

2023
May 12th - Deviation Games hit with layoffs.
May 24th - Reports of Jim Ryan using Bungie to "rigorously vet its upcoming live service games."
May 26th - Naughty Dog reports the game is delayed. Jason Schreier reports most of the team has moved on to other projects.
Oct 2023 - Game put on ice. Reported layoffs.

It's possible the vetting process happened early in the year because I don't think they would just layoff people immediately.

Jason Blundell left Deviation Games in September 2022 and maybe that was related to the Bungie evaluation.
Nice breakdown of time line, thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DForce