[Nick930] Direct Comparison Marvels Spider-Man PC vs PS5

[ethomaz]

That thread is more active so I will post here.

Beyond3D's pjbliverpool summary:

• It was a massive effort to port this to PC from "bare metal" PS5 version
• One "optimisation" Nixxes used which is bound to irk some is that they changed the DXR method from DXR1.1 which favours AMD to DXR 1.0 which favours NV.
• Richard is working on a full performance analysis (woohoo!)
• Alex and the team are (rightly) quite critical of other vendors that used pre-patch footage and setting as their basis for comparison. And Alex worked overtime to ensure DF didn't fall into that trap.
• More performance improvements are incoming
• Sounds like a really good interview with Nixxes will be posted soo

More will come... seems like PS5 to PC is not easy job.
I hope Sony Studios continue focusing in PS5 to delivery the best and after Nixxes works on port to PC that way they won't fall in the trap to not use innovation in their games that should not work on PC right now.

 

[Umar]

That thread is more active so I will post here.

Beyond3D's pjbliverpool summary:


More will come... seems like PS5 to PC is not easy job.

Was Ps5 designed to be easy to port games from ? I dont think so

 

[ethomaz]

Was Ps5 designed to be easy to port games from ? I dont think so

It was the other way around... easy port from PC to PS5.
PS5 to PC was never supposed to be easy... more you use specific PS5 features hard is to port to PC.

 

[ethomaz]

I just watched the video... my cents.

• They didn't converted from DXR 1.1 to DXR 1.0 because it was never using DXR 1.1... they converted from the Vulkan RT solution that is similar to DXR 1.1... my personal view sees that because PC have more nVidia users than AMD users... so they had to support better optimizations for nVidia.
• Alex believe from the interview they took months just looking at the game in a black screen with DX12.
• They have strong (bad) opinion about PC Shader Compilation situation and from Alex's talk it is not just them but most of devs if not all.
• Most multiplatform developers have a PC DX code base in their pipeline... Sony's games not... they basically don't create a PC pipeline when they develop a game... Nixes says both God of War and Spider-man had no PC code to base on... you have to manually convert the code they had with PS5 API (something I always said on GAF but people thought Sony made the games first on PC lol at least it is good to have a confirmation).
• Again the work was giant from Alex words... I'm no sure how Sony will get profit from if it sells like GoW or previous PC ports.... they needs a shack up in sales on PC.
• They never tested the game in HDDs (Nixxes) and that is why they put the message "you own risk" below the Mininum Specs.
• They made some very very low options to run over potates level PCs like Steam Deck.
• Richard says that he was surprised the most common GPU in PC didn't give a good experience (GTX 1060).
• Insomniac helped Nixxes to boost RT on PC.
• The games has DLSS FSR 2.0 and the own Insommiac's solution so comparisons will come (Alex says DLSS is what more impressed him even when he could only test after some patches... it was broken before that).
• Richard thinks it will be interesting because Insommiac's solution is light and FSR 2.0 is heavy in terms of processing... so you will probably have a lower resolution with FSR 2.0 than Insommiac's solution.
• There is a bit of overhead on DLSS and FSR 2.0 that doesn't exists in Insommiac's solution... Alex will cover that in a new video.

So we have at least two videos coming...
+ The Nixxes interview.
+ The full comparison breakdown.

 

[Deleted member 13]

That thread is more active so I will post here.

Beyond3D's pjbliverpool summary:


More will come... seems like PS5 to PC is not easy job.
I hope Sony Studios continue focusing in PS5 to delivery the best and after Nixxes works on port to PC that way they won't fall in the trap to not use innovation in their games that should not work on PC right now.

Like I said, once they master the port ocde (i.e. optimize it for GPUs) like GoW and HZD - it will be candy for future games.

 

[Deleted member 13]

I just watched the video... my cents.

• They didn't converted from DXR 1.1 to DXR 1.0 because it was never using DXR 1.1... they converted from the Vulkan RT solution that is similar to DXR 1.1... my personal view sees that because PC have more nVidia users than AMD users... so they had to support better optimizations for nVidia.
• Alex believe from the interview they took months just looking at the game in a black screen with DX12.
• They have strong (bad) opinion about PC Shader Compilation situation and from Alex's talk it is not just them but most of devs if not all.
• Most multiplatform developers have a PC DX code base in their pipeline... Sony's games not... they basically don't create a PC pipeline when they develop a game... Nixes says both God of War and Spider-man had no PC code to base on... you have to manually convert the code they had with PS5 API (something I always said on GAF but people thought Sony made the games first on PC lol at least it is good to have a confirmation).
• Again the work was giant from Alex words... I'm no sure how Sony will get profit from if it sells like GoW or previous PC ports.... they needs a shack up in sales on PC.
• They never tested the game in HDDs (Nixxes) and that is why they put the message "you own risk" below the Mininum Specs.
• They made some very very low options to run over potates level PCs like Steam Deck.
• Richard says that he was surprised the most common GPU in PC didn't give a good experience (GTX 1060).
• Insomniac helped Nixxes to boost RT on PC.
• The games has DLSS FSR 2.0 and the own Insommiac's solution so comparisons will come (Alex says DLSS is what more impressed him even when he could only test after some patches... it was broken before that).
• Richard thinks it will be interesting because Insommiac's solution is light and FSR 2.0 is heavy in terms of processing... so you will probably have a lower resolution with FSR 2.0 than Insommiac's solution.
• There is a bit of overhead on DLSS and FSR 2.0 that doesn't exists in Insommiac's solution... Alex will cover that in a new video.

So we have at least two videos coming...
+ The Nixxes interview.
+ The full comparison breakdown.

I always said that they have their base engine on the PC and that's true of all studios. A guy from ND told me that they use Visual C++ for their coding. That's on PC. They also create assets from a PC. They use the PS SDK on the PC as well and that's what they coded for. They didn't have to start from scratch a whole new engine on the PC. That would have taken years.

I used Unity on my PC at work to make an application for HoloLens using MS device. That's basically like a console. I had to do pre-compiling shader cache because ALL shaders written in an API have to be compiled to GPU-code in order to work on the GPU. That should be a given and no surprise.

 

[Old Gamer]

A guy from ND told me that they use Visual C++ for their coding. That's on PC. They also create assets from a PC. They use the PS SDK on the PC as well and that's what they coded for.

I remember reading that the PS4 SDK was commonly used through Visual Studio indeed, but with a Clang custom build cross-compiling for the PS4 as a target. The environment where the tools run is not necessarily the target.

The code should indeed be portable though, but even then one still deals with different shader code, standard library support, compiler support quirks, etc.

 

[ethomaz]

I always said that they have their base engine on the PC and that's true of all studios. A guy from ND told me that they use Visual C++ for their coding. That's on PC. They also create assets from a PC. They use the PS SDK on the PC as well and that's what they coded for. They didn't have to start from scratch a whole new engine on the PC. That would have taken years.

I used Unity on my PC at work to make an application for HoloLens using MS device. That's basically like a console. I had to do pre-compiling shader cache because ALL shaders written in an API have to be compiled to GPU-code in order to work on the GPU. That should be a given and no surprise.

That is not what Nixxes are saying.
They don’t have any PC code base to work… they have to manually convert all themselves… same for GoW PC port.

All the game code is using PS API calls and not PC Vulkan, OpenGL ot DX… when you do multiplatform you have an abstraction layer where you have like IFs to call the right API… that doesn’t exists in Sony’s games codebase… you have to do your code everything again to support PC and that was what Nixxes did.

And yes that manual conversion job takes months just to make the screen shows something.

That interview will be interesting because it break some PC users myths about PlayStation development.

 

[Deleted member 13]

That is not what Nixxes are saying.
They don’t have any PC code base to work… they have to manually convert all themselves… same for GoW PC port.

All the game code is using PS API calls and not PC Vulkan, OpenGL ot DX… when you do multiplatform you have an abstraction layer where you have like IFs to call the right API… that doesn’t exists in Sony’s games codebase… you have to do your code everything again to support PC and that was what Nixxes did.

And yes that manual conversion job takes months just to make the screen shows something.

That interview will be interesting because it break some PC users myths about PlayStation development.

I'm saying they don't just have a compiled game engine from the PS side. I'm saying that months of porting isn't the same as months of doing everything from scratch.

You are sounding like they didn't have anything to work with and had to rebuild the game engine from scratch.

 

[Dr Bass]

Id comfortably take the 1 second slower load time. It's worth it to me, night and day.

PC wont be loading as fast as PS5 until it gets dedicated decompression hardware, and DirectStorage or whatever it is called ain't it. The rest is as expected. This whole "it's an L" is also so dumb. It's the same game. It looks great on the PS5 as well.

 

[Shmunter]

I just watched the video... my cents.

• They didn't converted from DXR 1.1 to DXR 1.0 because it was never using DXR 1.1... they converted from the Vulkan RT solution that is similar to DXR 1.1... my personal view sees that because PC have more nVidia users than AMD users... so they had to support better optimizations for nVidia.
• Alex believe from the interview they took months just looking at the game in a black screen with DX12.
• They have strong (bad) opinion about PC Shader Compilation situation and from Alex's talk it is not just them but most of devs if not all.
• Most multiplatform developers have a PC DX code base in their pipeline... Sony's games not... they basically don't create a PC pipeline when they develop a game... Nixes says both God of War and Spider-man had no PC code to base on... you have to manually convert the code they had with PS5 API (something I always said on GAF but people thought Sony made the games first on PC lol at least it is good to have a confirmation).
• Again the work was giant from Alex words... I'm no sure how Sony will get profit from if it sells like GoW or previous PC ports.... they needs a shack up in sales on PC.
• They never tested the game in HDDs (Nixxes) and that is why they put the message "you own risk" below the Mininum Specs.
• They made some very very low options to run over potates level PCs like Steam Deck.
• Richard says that he was surprised the most common GPU in PC didn't give a good experience (GTX 1060).
• Insomniac helped Nixxes to boost RT on PC.
• The games has DLSS FSR 2.0 and the own Insommiac's solution so comparisons will come (Alex says DLSS is what more impressed him even when he could only test after some patches... it was broken before that).
• Richard thinks it will be interesting because Insommiac's solution is light and FSR 2.0 is heavy in terms of processing... so you will probably have a lower resolution with FSR 2.0 than Insommiac's solution.
• There is a bit of overhead on DLSS and FSR 2.0 that doesn't exists in Insommiac's solution... Alex will cover that in a new video.

So we have at least two videos coming...
+ The Nixxes interview.
+ The full comparison breakdown.

Just watched it, they make the game sound like an incomplete mess, but steam is almost 100% positive so it can’t be all bad. Game is heavier than Watchdongs and Cyberpunk?!?

Maybe it’s more glaring when you put it up against a pristine ps5 version.

 

[Shmunter]

PC wont be loading as fast as PS5 until it gets dedicated decompression hardware, and DirectStorage or whatever it is called ain't it. The rest is as expected. This whole "it's an L" is also so dumb. It's the same game. It looks great on the PS5 as well.

Well the roadmap is for GPU to be doing the decompression. No idea what that means for GPU resources at the end of the day tho.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm saying they don't just have a compiled game engine from the PS side. I'm saying that months of porting isn't the same as months of doing everything from scratch.

You are sounding like they didn't have anything to work with and had to rebuild the game engine from scratch.

They have the game, assets, non-graphic API code, etc.
All the API calls had to be converted manually… that is what they said.

 

[Sharinghack]

Can you take a video of that? Do you have all the settings at max with DLSS?

I couldn't make a video because I don't have a capture card, and using software to capture this resolution would kill the GPU and CPU and the results wouldn't be faithful. Here is at 3840x2560, so 4K+, max settings. More often than not the GPU is over 95%, you are probably CPU limited. I'm running a 5950x with 2 RTX 3090.

EDIT: This is really a very heavy game on PC to play at max settings.

 

[DynamiteCop]

DynamiteCop is temp banned, right? Would love to hear how his miraculous PC doesn't have these issues.

I'll let you know when I get this game for $15 3 months from now. Also again, these issues probably won't be a thing. This sounds per the very usual a bunch of shit tied to a single system trying to speak on the whole.

Not concerned whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member 13]

I couldn't make a video because I don't have a capture card, and using software to capture this resolution would kill the GPU and CPU and the results wouldn't be faithful. Here is at 3840x2560, so 4K+, max settings. More often than not the GPU is over 95%, you are probably CPU limited. I'm running a 5950x with 2 RTX 3090.

EDIT: This is really a very heavy game on PC to play at max settings.

Yup. CPU-limited. I have a 3950x CPU.

 

[Deleted member 140]

Good to see Sony giving PC players something to play and talk about, look how excited they get for it.

 

[rofif]

Good to see Sony giving PC players something to play and talk about, look how excited they get for it.

That's true.
There is nothing else to talk about. That's why we war... out of boredom I guess

 

[Sharinghack]

Just wait for Miles Morales, it's waaaay better than this one.

 

[ethomaz]

Just wait for Miles Morales, it's waaaay better than this one.

I guess port development is the reason Miles Morales and TLOU Part 1 will take way more time to reach PC.