PCs will be the ideal platform for Sony devs over the PS5

[PropellerEar]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Sony/MS realized that their entry level consoles lacked the power needed to run games like developers anticipated.

Was never about developers but the customers.

Here's a link of what I'm talking about:

Original PS4 Receiving Games With Sub-Optimal Performance Due To NEO Is A Valid Concern – Developer

gamingbolt.com

Dev bringing out a valid concern about targeting two systems with the same game. Not Sony/MSFT realizing lack of power.

The PS4 Pro had more bandwidth than the PS4 to run games at better settings. If there is a PS5 Pro, it will have more power and that will be why people will buy it. I'm not saying that none of the games running on the PS4 Pro can't run on a PS4.

So it's about the customer's needs not games.
Like I said.

 

[Sircaw]

Here's the reality though, that $500 limit is complete BS. That's not the cost of what these things are or what it takes to manufacture them, the PlayStation 5 and Series X are without a doubt a few hundred more than they are charged for.

Console manufacturers eat cost because they have software to make money on. You never see the real price of what these things cost, in the PC market the entirety of the cost is offloaded to the customer.

This sounds incorrect, was sony not saying the were losing money on units they were selling, then after a while they said they are just breaking even?

If they selling them for a few hundred dollars more they would of not increased the cost of the unit recently.

 

[Deleted member 13]

Was never about developers but the customers.

You think the customers complained about the lack of power in the PS4 and Sony decided to make a PS4 Pro? Surely you don't believe that.

Dev bringing out a valid concern about targeting two systems with the same game. Not Sony/MSFT realizing lack of power.

So you think all of a sudden after decades of bringing out 1 system per generation, Sony/MSFT decided to buck trend and make a more powerful console feeling that their entry console had enough power to play games? Why would they do that for the 1st time ever?

So it's about the customer's needs not games.entry
Like I said.

Ok. I guess customers not wanting PC ports should become a reality soon then.

 

[Dr Bass]

This sounds incorrect, was sony not saying the were losing money on units they were selling, then after a while they said they are just breaking even?

If they selling them for a few hundred dollars more they would of not increased the cost of the unit recently.

Sony said they were profitable on the disc based PS5 awhile ago. Not sure if that's still true with cost increases, but they did raise prices to account for that in some areas, as was well discussed.

 

[Sircaw]

Sony said they were profitable on the disc based PS5 awhile ago. Not sure if that's still true with cost increases, but they did raise prices to account for that in some areas, as was well discussed.

We are def talking a small denominations, like 10 bucks or something not hundreds like the boy in blue stated.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Do

---

Do you now how math works?

Add up all the 20 and 30 series cards and you have way more than the measly 6% of the fabled "1060."

 

[Sircaw]

Do
Do you now how math works?

Add up all the 20 and 30 series cards and you have way more than the measly 6% of the fabled "1060."

You are such an aggressive Xbox fanboy.

 

[TubzGaming]

Do
Do you now how math works?

Add up all the 20 and 30 series cards and you have way more than the measly 6% of the fabled "1060."

Do you know how to be polite and get the point across without insulting me?
I was showing the List of the most used specs.
Then as you said you use a 3080 Ti i showed there is less then 1% of PC users that use it.
I am all for getting a point across but there is no need to be a dick about it.

Quick edit:
21.33% 2000 and 3000 Series Total Combined
31.72% 1000 Series Total

 

[Killer_Sakoman]

PC has a huge player base at the moment and is difficult to ignore. However, I doubt its future. As I don't think developers have the budget to push games graphics. Not forgetting diminishing return. The plug and play natire of the much more affordable consoles will regain big market share from PC and publishers interest in PC will decline.

This is my thoughts. I can be wrong, but this is how I see the future of the market.

 

[PropellerEar]

You think the customers complained about the lack of power in the PS4 and Sony decided to make a PS4 Pro? Surely you don't believe that.

I don't think customers complained but were willing to buy it so yes, that is pretty much what Sony&Microsoft went for...

So you think all of a sudden after decades of bringing out 1 system per generation, Sony/MSFT decided to buck trend and make a more powerful console feeling that their entry console had enough power to play games? Why would they do that for the 1st time ever?

Base PS4 definitely does have enough power to play games.

Ok. I guess customers not wanting PC ports should become a reality soon then.

I don't know what you mean by this, and I think you don't either.

 

[Gediminas]

I don't think customers complained but were willing to buy it so yes, that is pretty much what Sony&Microsoft went for...

Base PS4 definitely does have enough power to play games.

I don't know what you mean by this, and I think you don't either.

people should remember that sony sell not only consoles. but tvs also. majority was cutter to that group too.
they even had marketing 4k tv with PS4 Pro.
if someone thinks that sony released PS4 Pro because of developers, they are totally delusional, it was business based move, and big one.

 

[Hezekiah]

Unreal, Crytek, Capcom and idSoftware has very highly efficient graphics engines that scale really well.


I wouldn't say generally as that would include most games. You can't run on a GPU like a 1060 and judge it's performance relative to higher graphics settings and say it's not well optimized. Every multiplatform game engine is scalable from high-end to low-end since it covers across multiple hardware. A gaming company isn't going to create 512k x 512k textures for all platforms simply because they are concerned about 1060 GPUs not being performant with 4096 x 4096 textures.

Are RE: Village or Hunt Showdown going to push these high end cards at all? Nah, and I doubt the next batch of Capcom games will either. Crysis 4 will probably be out in 2027.

Honestly there are tons of examples of games that run on low-end hardware that don't make anything like the full potential of the 3000 series cards. Most big games are console-focused these days, they're simply not optimised for PC in the way RDR2 and Cyberpunk are for example.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Do you know how to be polite and get the point across without insulting me?
I was showing the List of the most used specs.
Then as you said you use a 3080 Ti i showed there is less then 1% of PC users that use it.
I am all for getting a point across but there is no need to be a dick about it.

Quick edit:
21.33% 2000 and 3000 Series Total Combined
31.72% 1000 Series Total

I kinda find responses with no words pretty rude too bud.

But I apologize.

My point was better cards are a significant user base.

 

[Hezekiah]

People harping on the 1060 being the "most popular card" seem to be missing that it's still only ~6% of the users.

There are a significant amount of people with much better cards.. well above the 6% of users who have a 1060.

It's also just silly to point out because.. why in the world would I care, if I've got a 3080 TI?

It's not 'harping on' it's reality. The vast majority of gamers don't have 3000 series cards, or even high-end 2000 series cards.

Good for those that have a 3080ti, but in reality all you're getting are more frames than is probably perceptive to the human eye, and the option to play in an ultra/extreme mode where the differences are often barely even noticeable in-game because the hardware isnt being made best use of.

The real harping comes from 3080 and above owners.

I'm hoping to get a 4080 at some point, but I'm not going to go on about it incessantly on forums to flex, or post my specs every chance I get....

 

[Deleted member 13]

I don't know what you mean by this, and I think you don't either.

In other words you think Sony "listened" to the outcry of gamers not being satisfied with performance in games for however long you think they listened, then they got their elves to conjure up a more powerful PS4 to satisfy the customers. If that's the case, then they should listen to the customers outcry that they don't want PC ports and they should put a stop to it in due time.

 

[Deleted member 13]

Honestly there are tons of examples of games that run on low-end hardware that don't make anything like the full potential of the 3000 series cards. Most big games are console-focused these days, they're simply not optimised for PC in the way RDR2 and Cyberpunk are for example.

You guys are not understanding how a graphics engine is designed. They are agnostic of hardware. When Disney announced the Principle BRDF shader library using PBR, the developer implements those functions within the graphics engine. Specular model using GGX, diffuse model using Oren-Nayer, reflection model using a Fresnel attenuation function, etc.. We implement those functions regardless of whether they are too costly or not for the hardware. A full featured PBR shader system will use all of these models accumulated. When we run the game, we can see which settings in the shader are too expensive for low-end hardware and crank down the accuracy or number of samples for each of the BRDF models. We won't create a low-end setting and forego all the potential functionality of a high-end model that's close to the Siggraph paper simply because we are forced to design based on 1x000 - series cards.

HBAO can't run on a PS4
16x anisotropic filtering is too expensive
higher LOD is too expensive
Higher resolution textures and normal maps are too expensive
Shadow map resolution is too expensive
RT GI is too expensive without hardware AI for supersampling
RT shadows of every object in the scene is too expensive
Using full resolution framebuffer for RT reflections is also too expensive..

I can go on and on.. and yet, ALL of these things are presented in the graphics options in a PC game whether it's a 1st party title of a PS exclusive or a multiplatform game from a different company.

The low end model graphics cards are NOT going to be able to run these kinds of features at full resolution optimized or not. Same with these consoles. No 1st party game has any of these features indicating that optimizing the bare-to-the-metal code isn't enough to offset the ms cost.

You guys need to stop with the wizard of oz reality that games aren't optimized for the PC or games are designed around a low end GPU. PC versions of games are the fastest running and fully featured over the consoles. The fact that there are options that are in the graphics settings and not present in the consoles should prove that they don't develop games based on low-end hardware because those settings wouldn't have the ones that will choke the low-end hardware.

 

[Hezekiah]

You guys are not understanding how a graphics engine is designed. They are agnostic of hardware. When Disney announced the Principle BRDF shader library using PBR, the developer implements those functions within the graphics engine. Specular model using GGX, diffuse model using Oren-Nayer, reflection model using a Fresnel attenuation function, etc.. We implement those functions regardless of whether they are too costly or not for the hardware. A full featured PBR shader system will use all of these models accumulated. When we run the game, we can see which settings in the shader are too expensive for low-end hardware and crank down the accuracy or number of samples for each of the BRDF models. We won't create a low-end setting and forego all the potential functionality of a high-end model that's close to the Siggraph paper simply because we are forced to design based on 1x000 - series cards.

HBAO can't run on a PS4
16x anisotropic filtering is too expensive
higher LOD is too expensive
Higher resolution textures and normal maps are too expensive
Shadow map resolution is too expensive
RT GI is too expensive without hardware AI for supersampling
RT shadows of every object in the scene is too expensive
Using full resolution framebuffer for RT reflections is also too expensive..

I can go on and on.. and yet, ALL of these things are presented in the graphics options in a PC game whether it's a 1st party title of a PS exclusive or a multiplatform game from a different company.

The low end model graphics cards are NOT going to be able to run these kinds of features at full resolution optimized or not. Same with these consoles. No 1st party game has any of these features indicating that optimizing the bare-to-the-metal code isn't enough to offset the ms cost.

You guys need to stop with the wizard of oz reality that games aren't optimized for the PC or games are designed around a low end GPU. PC versions of games are the fastest running and fully featured over the consoles. The fact that there are options that are in the graphics settings and not present in the consoles should prove that they don't develop games based on low-end hardware because those settings wouldn't have the ones that will choke the low-end hardware.

Lol you sound triggered.

I own a gaming PC and I say what I see - so do other PC gamers I speak to. This whole threads reeks of defensiveness. It's pointless when you're unwilling to engage with people in good faith.

 

[rofif]

Purely technical yes. Of course pc is a good platform if you target high end and make the game scalable down.
But I am on a console for whole package.
-Physical disc
-Plug and play nature
-Dualsense and 3d audio is really nice
-System level screenshots
-Games made around the used hardware
-Modes (although I am not a fan of having to research modes but I pick 4k and go most of times)
-HDR is simply more undestandable

PC is a powerhouse. I just played Some Unreal 1 on steam deck. Anything is possible on pc.
My father came to visit me, I put steam deck in his hands, launched Unreal 1 and he almost cried when he saw that waterfall
(sorry for missing the point of the discussion lol)

 

[PropellerEar]

If that's the case, then they should listen to the customers outcry that they don't want PC ports and they should put a stop to it in due time.

How did you like that GoW, paying customer?

 

[DynamiteCop]

The only thing I'm going to add is this, PC is the only market in perpetual growth. Consoles as a whole are either stagnant or in decline, they are not a growth market.