Phil Spencer hypocritically calls PlayStation “slimy” for paying publishers for exclusive content

[anonpuffs]

I heard PS6 releases in late 2027. Rumours of course.

That would be dumb.

 

[mibu no ookami]

FWIW e.g PS6, I do think that's a 2028 system. Especially if the PS5 Pro is delayed to early 2025, I doubt SIE would want that to only have a "focused" shelf life of only 2 years before a PS6 comes out and displaces it as the premier system.

However, anyone saying PS5 will outsell PS4 in the same 7-year span is being EXTREMELY optimistic. GTA6 might not end up being the phenomenon GTA5 was...and if it's not then what? What would SIE have left to push further console sales? Especially if they stick with the cadence of bringing all their games to PC (likely more Day 1 i.e LEGO Horizon, and shorter windows for tentpole titles too).

Although, at least it seems like SIE are doing other things with the console that could stimulate sales over time. They're testing a 4-part installment payment program in Brazil that should be deployed in other markets over time. If they refine it the right way (I've gone in about this type of idea in the past), it might incentivize more console buyers ad let them have more flexibility with the games they buy. Getting more features on PS5 (and console-side for PSVR2, PS Portal etc.) to better match what other ecosystems like Steam are providing, would also help in the long run.

Where are you getting the idea that the PS5 Pro is going to be delayed? That isn't in line with guidance on Sony's annual forecast for the year that was JUST released recently.

I think the PS5 will pretty easily match the PS4 launch aligned by the time the PS4 was discontinued, but as mentioned will considerably outsell it by the time the PS5 is discontinued.

PS5 Pro will be more of a bridge to PS6 than the PS4 Pro was to the PS5, again because of the pandemic hurting supply chain resulting in the PS4 Pro being discontinued.

I imagine we'll see at the time of the PS6 launch

PS5 Digital - 300
PS5 - 350
PS5 Pro Digital - 450
PS5 Pro - 500
PS6 - 600

 

[mibu no ookami]

So what you're saying is that your entire arguments regarding "PC Ports being good" are based on emotion and not data? Good to know.

I can see the margins and the fact that the PS5 is still well within reach of the PS4 despite the pandemic, supply constraints, and a lack of a pro model, and lack of a price drop.

I'll help you with some data

• Playstation missed their console sales target by 18% - this could be correlation or causation, but the fact remains that they missed not only the original target, but also the revised one, even after having the consoles on discount for a few months;

They misjudged the tailwinds of the pandemic. That has nothing to do with games being ported to PC. What corresponding sales on PC suggests that they would have bridged a gap of 4 million units sold in this one fiscal year?

• Half of their MAU is still on the PS4 despite the PS5 releasing almost 4 years ago - clearly around 50% of their users have decided that the upgrade is not worth it;

Which is entirely normal for any console generation.

• Sony not being able to beat the PS4 launch aligned despite the Switch being at the end of its lifetime and the Xbox Series consoles being an even bigger sales bomb than the Xbox One.

The PS4 did not have a "switch" to compete with at all for the same period launch aligned... really poor analysis from you. The PS5 is outselling the PS4 in US and Japan. What does that tell you?

I'll help you with some emotions

• Hermen Hulst happily tripping all over himself when asked by Goldman Sachs about cannibalisation - The only thing he did was discuss how he hoped things would work out, and provided no data that they did. Transcript here, because I took the time

He didn't trip over himself. He added to the answer Nishino gave.

I do want to add special emphasis to this, which just shows how terrible their strategy has been:



Them not doing this in the first place and instead opting to do it after porting most of their back catalog speaks volumes about the (in)competence of their leadership.

Any actual evidence of this?

Source? Because so far every single PS platform had a release gap of anything between 7 years or less, so the likelihood is that an hypothetical PS6 releases in 2027 or before. I could be wrong, of course, but don't come in all high and mighty when historical trends prove that my opinion on this matter is actually more solid than yours.

court documents, everyone generally believe the PS6 will come out in 2028 or later.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/microsoft-expects-new-xbox-playstation-6-in-2028-says-court-filings/

Did anything happen this generation that might prolong the generation? Anything buehler?

 

[ksdixon]

Seriously Phil? You're gonna come out with that quote after your.. track record? GTFO

This guy is gonna be remembered as "Phil Slimey" for sure.

 

[MrAss]

Where are you getting the idea that the PS5 Pro is going to be delayed? That isn't in line with guidance on Sony's annual forecast for the year that was JUST released recently.

I think the PS5 will pretty easily match the PS4 launch aligned by the time the PS4 was discontinued, but as mentioned will considerably outsell it by the time the PS5 is discontinued.

PS5 Pro will be more of a bridge to PS6 than the PS4 Pro was to the PS5, again because of the pandemic hurting supply chain resulting in the PS4 Pro being discontinued.

I imagine we'll see at the time of the PS6 launch

PS5 Digital - 300
PS5 - 350
PS5 Pro Digital - 450
PS5 Pro - 500
PS6 - 600

I think PS5 Pro will be replaced with PS6. They don't need them both at the market. But PS5 Super Slim will be the cheapest option to play all the cross gen games

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Where are you getting the idea that the PS5 Pro is going to be delayed? That isn't in line with guidance on Sony's annual forecast for the year that was JUST released recently.

I think the PS5 will pretty easily match the PS4 launch aligned by the time the PS4 was discontinued, but as mentioned will considerably outsell it by the time the PS5 is discontinued.

Well, PS5 will have an extra year of full production compared to PS4, which is the main reason I say it will at least match PS4's numbers. Something absolutely catastrophic would have to happen for it to sell less while having a full extra year as the main focus.

As for the possible delay for the Pro this year? It depends on the games. SIE don't have any major hitters launching this year to sell people on the Pro, and who knows if the big 3P games coming this year will hit the mark. I guess we'll see what happens.

PS5 Pro will be more of a bridge to PS6 than the PS4 Pro was to the PS5, again because of the pandemic hurting supply chain resulting in the PS4 Pro being discontinued.

There'll be another reason why it does; PS5 Pro will share at least one technological component (PSSR) that the PS6 will directly utilize.

I imagine we'll see at the time of the PS6 launch

PS5 Digital - 300
PS5 - 350
PS5 Pro Digital - 450
PS5 Pro - 500
PS6 - 600

There's probably not going to be a PS5 Pro Digital. People who'd want a Pro would already pay for a disc drive as well by default, so it'd be simpler to keep production logistics simple and have only one SKU for the Pro model (as in, it's still a "base" digital model but all SKUs come bundled with a disc drive attachment already pre-attached and set-up/configured).

A PS5 Pro Digital would likely only come about as an end-of-gen refresh where Sony just 100% phase out the SKUs with disc drives for PS5 & PS5 Pro. So by time of PS6, it'd just be PS5 Digital, PS5 Pro Digital, PS6 Digital, and the disc drives for those systems sold separately.

 

[mibu no ookami]

As for the possible delay for the Pro this year? It depends on the games. SIE don't have any major hitters launching this year to sell people on the Pro, and who knows if the big 3P games coming this year will hit the mark. I guess we'll see what happens.

Sony you somehow think Sony didn't know their software slate for the year when they announced their hardware sales guidance for the same year? Once again, you're working backwards from a conclusion.

There'll be another reason why it does; PS5 Pro will share at least one technological component (PSSR) that the PS6 will directly utilize.

Obviously...

There's probably not going to be a PS5 Pro Digital. People who'd want a Pro would already pay for a disc drive as well by default, so it'd be simpler to keep production logistics simple and have only one SKU for the Pro model (as in, it's still a "base" digital model but all SKUs come bundled with a disc drive attachment already pre-attached and set-up/configured).

For the same reason they have a digital PS5, they may very well have a digital ps5 pro.

The people willing to buy a pro may or may not want/need the disc drive. I can't imagine this dropping for 200 dollars more than the PS5 without a cheaper option and them still hitting that 18 million.

A PS5 Pro Digital would likely only come about as an end-of-gen refresh where Sony just 100% phase out the SKUs with disc drives for PS5 & PS5 Pro. So by time of PS6, it'd just be PS5 Digital, PS5 Pro Digital, PS6 Digital, and the disc drives for those systems sold separately.

Another baseless assumption.

 

[AllBizness]

Well, PS5 will have an extra year of full production compared to PS4, which is the main reason I say it will at least match PS4's numbers. Something absolutely catastrophic would have to happen for it to sell less while having a full extra year as the main focus.

As for the possible delay for the Pro this year? It depends on the games. SIE don't have any major hitters launching this year to sell people on the Pro, and who knows if the big 3P games coming this year will hit the mark. I guess we'll see what happens.



There'll be another reason why it does; PS5 Pro will share at least one technological component (PSSR) that the PS6 will directly utilize.



There's probably not going to be a PS5 Pro Digital. People who'd want a Pro would already pay for a disc drive as well by default, so it'd be simpler to keep production logistics simple and have only one SKU for the Pro model (as in, it's still a "base" digital model but all SKUs come bundled with a disc drive attachment already pre-attached and set-up/configured).

A PS5 Pro Digital would likely only come about as an end-of-gen refresh where Sony just 100% phase out the SKUs with disc drives for PS5 & PS5 Pro. So by time of PS6, it'd just be PS5 Digital, PS5 Pro Digital, PS6 Digital, and the disc drives for those systems sold separately.

Games will have absolutely no effect on weather Pro will release this year. It's not a new console launch! Didn't anyone learn from the PS4 Pro launch? Zero games launched with it, basically every game that released after the PS4 Pro launched had Pro enhancements and the same thing will happen with PS5 Pro. Stop listening to those idiots at Digital Foundry who thinks it's supposed to launch with new 1st party hits lol. Another thing to note is the PS5 Pro isn't aimed at the current userbase. Sony knows a few hardcore like myself and some people on this forum who already has a base PS5 will pick up a Pro but we are a rarity. Most PS5 Pro buyers will be new to PS5, just like most iPhone Pro buyers are new to the latest gen of iPhones. It's funny watching people on the internets who already have PS5's complain about the Pro as if their the target audience, we're not.

 

[Danja1187]

I heard PS6 releases in late 2027. Rumours of course.

PS6 has no business coming out before 2028, imo.

 

[Monkeyclaw]

Right on, brother. I hope there is a crash, wipe the slate clean and start again. For it to happen, we need another form of entertainment that will pull the normies; and the investors, away from gaming.
I remain optimistic but not very hopeful that it will happen. We are stuck in Clownhog Day after all.

Gaming right now is knee deep in Piss Creek. I'm now only buying titles from lesser known devs and there are more gems in the pseudo-Indie corner then in the mainstream AAA catalog.

That isn't right. The AAA's should be quality products which suit the AAA moniker. But no. In this day and age if a game comes from a known studio and sort of works, its AAA material. Fuck that shit.

I'm REALLY hoping for a Great Reset in gaming. Let stocks plummet, let revenue evaporate, anything to restart.
Because right now the industry's aspirations are pathetic at best.

 

[Darth Vader]

I can see the margins and the fact that the PS5 is still well within reach of the PS4 despite the pandemic, supply constraints, and a lack of a pro model, and lack of a price drop.

I can also see that the PS5 is trailing behind despite abundant stock, faltering competition (direct and indirect), and many periods of discounts. This works both ways.

They misjudged the tailwinds of the pandemic. That has nothing to do with games being ported to PC. What corresponding sales on PC suggests that they would have bridged a gap of 4 million units sold in this one fiscal year?

Company's preferred excuse, the tailwinds of the pandemic. They have two CEOs and neither of them could articulate an answer about PC ports cannibalising console sales. If that's the whole reason? Absolutely not, them having very little in the way of exclusives will also play a part, and I'm sure pricing is also playing a part, but you keep pretending that PC ports are not causing this despite... Your guess being as good as mine, and I did predict the faltering console sales.

Which is entirely normal for any console generation.

And yet you posted no source. When did the PS4 surpass the PS3 in monthly active users? I can help you here - they had 70 Million active users on the PS4 ecosystem either by the end of 2016 or by end of March 2017 (the Slides don't mention the timeframe).

Sony's PlayStation Network Had 70 Million Monthly Active Users, 26 Million PS Plus Subscribers

Sony announced that the PlayStation Network had 70 million monthly active users (MAU) and 26 million PlayStation Plus subscribers.

wccftech.com

As of April 30th 2024 (which is 2016 launch aligned) they have 49. Do you think they will gain 21M active users by March next year, when they predict selling less than 21M consoles? I'd be very pleasantly surprised if they do.

The PS4 did not have a "switch" to compete with at all for the same period launch aligned... really poor analysis from you. The PS5 is outselling the PS4 in US and Japan. What does that tell you?

Of course it didn't, but it had the switch to compete from 2017 onwards and kept selling. It also had a much stronger Xbox One (which you conveniently forgot since it's the closest competitor) and is still ahead launch aligned.

Also, can you stop bringing the US and Japan as some sort of argument? Those are two markets out of more than two markets. The facts are - The PS5 is selling less launch aligned.

He didn't trip over himself. He added to the answer Nishino gave.

No, he tripped over himself considering he didn't provide an answer based on facts and data, just feelings.

Any actual evidence of this?

Are you joking? You said yourself that they are NOW incorporating the PSN signup to have telemetry. What telemetry did they have before? What telemetry do they have that they cannot answer a simple question from Goldman Sachs?

Also, love it that you ask for evidence when you provide zero evidence when you argue. It's rich.

court documents, everyone generally believe the PS6 will come out in 2028 or later.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/mi...box-playstation-6-in-2028-says-court-filings/
Did anything happen this generation that might prolong the generation? Anything buehler?

Did you read that? Because apparently you didn't. I will help you:

"Microsoft expects the next Xbox and PlayStation will launch in 2028"

Microsoft can expect all they want, your supposed source is a court document from Playstation's competition.

And you may end up being right, that's fine, but this is not proof. If anything, it shows how you have very little in the way of arguments other than feelings, which is what you accuse others of doing.

 

[Petekilla]

FWIW e.g PS6, I do think that's a 2028 system. Especially if the PS5 Pro is delayed to early 2025, I doubt SIE would want that to only have a "focused" shelf life of only 2 years before a PS6 comes out and displaces it as the premier system.

However, anyone saying PS5 will outsell PS4 in the same 7-year span is being EXTREMELY optimistic. GTA6 might not end up being the phenomenon GTA5 was...and if it's not then what? What would SIE have left to push further console sales? Especially if they stick with the cadence of bringing all their games to PC (likely more Day 1 i.e LEGO Horizon, and shorter windows for tentpole titles too).

Although, at least it seems like SIE are doing other things with the console that could stimulate sales over time. They're testing a 4-part installment payment program in Brazil that should be deployed in other markets over time. If they refine it the right way (I've gone in about this type of idea in the past), it might incentivize more console buyers ad let them have more flexibility with the games they buy. Getting more features on PS5 (and console-side for PSVR2, PS Portal etc.) to better match what other ecosystems like Steam are providing, would also help in the long run.

You’re crazy. GTA 6 will easily be the phenomenon 5 was. GTA 6 in 6 months has almost 200M on Rockstar’s YouTube channel.

 

[Petekilla]

I still don't understand where the money went in Speder Man 2 and GoWR, and why their development cycle took 5 years...

These games were made with a ready-made technological basis, not from scratch, so we can assume that this is the fault of poor management and the start of parallel development for PC.

And the most frustrating thing is that in 2023-2024 we could have already received Days Gone 2, and possibly other projects from studios outside the big three, but Sony doesn't care about them, they would rather close SuckerPunch and BendStudio than put things in order in their flagship studios.

Those games were made during the pandemic. Ragnarok was supposed to release in 2021. But it was delayed because Christopher Judge got injured so they delayed the game. HFW was supposed to also release in 2021.

 

[Would_you_kindly]

When this cuck is doing the interview they aren't going to ask any hard hitting questions

 

[AsuraTheDestructor]

The Irony. Maybe its because the Series S is a bottleneck for 3rd parties, Phil.

 

[Petekilla]

When this cuck is doing the interview they aren't going to ask any hard hitting questions

Look at him stoking the console war flames. PS didn’t even have a Showcase.

 

[Nhomnhom]

When this cuck is doing the interview they aren't going to ask any hard hitting questions

$17 a month for 24 months to plays those? No thanks, I rather pay $2 and play Doom and Fable if they end up being good.

 

[xollowsob]

Gaming right now is knee deep in Piss Creek. I'm now only buying titles from lesser known devs and there are more gems in the pseudo-Indie corner then in the mainstream AAA catalog.

That isn't right. The AAA's should be quality products which suit the AAA moniker. But no. In this day and age if a game comes from a known studio and sort of works, its AAA material. Fuck that shit.

I'm REALLY hoping for a Great Reset in gaming. Let stocks plummet, let revenue evaporate, anything to restart.
Because right now the industry's aspirations are pathetic at best.

You're right. The indie studios, or the B-tier studios, would be the ones that would invent or create a new idea, a genre or a twist on an old classic. Those ideas would be adopted and perfected by AAA games and used to push the genre/industry in a better direction.

Nowadays though, the only thing AAA is pushing is political, social and government messages. Escapist and surrealist worlds, designed to teleport you away from the normie, day-to-day rat race have long gone, replaced by a high price tag of brow-beating, boredom and boardroom greed.

With every AAA flop, the industry nudges closer to breaking its own neck and I'll be cheering it while playing the backlog of games worth my time and money.

I wonder what the straw that breaks the camels back will be? I think it may be GTA 6, but that might be being very optimistic, because if that flops, it's Game Over.

 

[daniel5043]

Nowadays though, the only thing AAA is pushing is political, social and government messages.

Don't forget trying to examine something they don't understand

 

[Monkeyclaw]

You're right. The indie studios, or the B-tier studios, would be the ones that would invent or create a new idea, a genre or a twist on an old classic. Those ideas would be adopted and perfected by AAA games and used to push the genre/industry in a better direction.

Nowadays though, the only thing AAA is pushing is political, social and government messages. Escapist and surrealist worlds, designed to teleport you away from the normie, day-to-day rat race have long gone, replaced by a high price tag of brow-beating, boredom and boardroom greed.

With every AAA flop, the industry nudges closer to breaking its own neck and I'll be cheering it while playing the backlog of games worth my time and money.

I wonder what the straw that breaks the camels back will be? I think it may be GTA 6, but that might be being very optimistic, because if that flops, it's Game Over.

The game I enjoyed most last year was Robocop from Teyon. It wasn't perfect (npc models, animation during cutscenes) and it was made by an "AA" studio with limited budget but HOLY SHIT did they nail it!

In my opinion they put big developers to shame. Used Unreal Engine 5, looked incredible, was a true tribute to the first 2 movies and had 0 monetization or other corporate bloat.

It was a lovesong and I enjoyed it like nothing else in the past 5 or so years. I was sad and happy at the same time. And yes if GTA6 fails, it'll be the E.T moment all over again and I honestly can't wait to be there when it happens.

It was corporate greed then and it will be the cause of an eventual collapse again.