Yeah I know, but I'm not talking about support studio help, I'm talk somebody else to do the heavy lifting. Pre-production started in 2017 and by all accounts it's not going well at all.
They didn't secure the new office and made the first key hirings for the project until the end of 2017. Pretty likely didn't start to work properly on it until early 2018. They needed to build a new team, work for the first time on a way, way bigger and way more complex type of game than what they did until now, had to work on what it was a new IP and very different one for them, and also pretty much had to build almost a new engine from scratch and many related tools. It's a very complex and difficult case.
This is easily 6 or 7 years, add another one due to covid and some typical random issues like key guys leaving. At least 7 years or easily 8. 2025-2026 release being optimistic. It's totally understandable to don't show the game at this point, around 3+ years before its release. It doesn't mean they have issues.
They didn't secure the new office and made the first key hirings for the project until the end of 2017. Pretty likely didn't start to work properly on it until early 2018. They needed to build a new team, work for the first time on a way, way bigger and way more complex type of game than what they did until now, had to work on what it was a new IP and very different one for them, and also pretty much had to build almost a new engine from scratch and many related tools. It's a very complex and difficult case.
This is easily 6 or 7 years, add another one due to covid and some typical random issues like key guys leaving. At least 7 years or easily 8. 2025-2026 release being optimistic. It's totally understandable to don't show the game at this point, around 3+ years before its release. It doesn't mean they have issues.
A lot of speculation regarding the timeline there, pre-production definitely began in 2017 according to LinkedIn listings. Everything reported on the game suggests that it's in dev hell, and the fact that Playground hired lots of new staff and are still struggling strongly suggests they require help.
A lot of speculation regarding the timeline there, pre-production definitely began in 2017 according to LinkedIn listings. Everything reported on the game suggests that it's in dev hell, and the fact that Playground hired lots of new staff and are still struggling strongly suggests they require help.
"Since we announced Playground's second studio, the developer has hired roughly 60 people, with plans to reach 200. Two years to hire less than half your intended headcount might seem slow, but Raeburn said this has been both unavoidable and somewhat deliberate.
"When you're hiring at the highest level -- we're hiring top positions and some of the best people around the world -- they don't land at exactly the point you expect them to," he explained. "You have to pull some people in early, some people take a little bit longer. There are a couple of outstanding areas we need to build up, but I'm just astonished at how great and how far along that team is. The key is getting the right people for the job, and we'll take as long as we need... Now that the senior hires are in place, the rest are coming on board at the pace we expected them to."
Fulton added: "When you open a studio, you don't open the floodgates and bring in 200 people to build a team. Ideally, you want to do it top-down -- you want to hire the leadership and then the leads before you hire the people that will fill their teams, and those are the people that are hardest to find. It's slowest going at the start, but it's worth taking your time to find the right people to fill the positions you've got, because that's what will safeguard the team for the future."
So when I said that pretty likely they didn't start to work properly on it until early 2018 I was being optimistic, didn't mean full production. Considering that a year and a half later still were at 60 people, very likely at early 2018 they were still making preproduction, prototypes, design and reworking their engine and still weren't in full production.
I wonder if they had their own vision of what the game was and it was much different from COD but after the activsion deal sony pressured them to make a cod like game and thats part of the reason one of the founders left?
So when I said that pretty likely they didn't start to work properly on it until early 2018 I was being optimistic, didn't mean full production. Considering that a year and a half later still were at 60 people, very likely at early 2018 they were still making preproduction, prototypes, design and reworking their engine and still weren't in full production.
Eh as you've quoted, I said the pre-production started in 2017.
That is six years ago and we haven't seen a thing. Well apart from a CGI trailer.
In the meantime we have heard several reports, both internal and external, that development has been difficult.
Let's see if anything is shown at the upcoming showcase. But I will bet that the game won't even be released next year l because it's been in development hell, and MS has messed up again in terms of its internal decision-making and processes.
But in mid 2019 (almost 4 years ago) we saw it wasn't the case, even if planned to grow to around 200 people they still were only around 60 people, which means they were pretty likely still making the new engine and tools, and still in preproduction or in very early stages of production: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/playground-games-crunch-has-no-place-in-modern-development
Then we have the interview of its principal game designer, who was there from November 2017 until Jan. 2021. He mentioned in an interview that worked there for 3 years doing what basically are preproduction tasks:
"He came in to take care of the combat side of things, defining what technical requirements needed to be met and the concept of what an updated Fable should include. He spent three years at PlayGround creating mainly technical systems, writing documentation, doing competitive research (studying the characteristics of the best action RPGs that had come out in those years to find out what made them attractive) and analyzing the classic Fable games to get to know the essence of the series and be able to maintain it. In addition to laying the foundations on which to build the game, prototypes were made during that time to test the tools and systems. "Open-world action RPGs are incredibly complicated to make, they need a lot of time, a lot of people and at PlayGround they have the mentality of doing more with less, that if Assassin's Creed is made by 5000 people they will have 150 or 200 and if they do it in 7 years, they will have Fable in 5. It is good to be ambitious but you also have to be realistic and what I saw was that it was getting longer and longer and I, personally, don't know if I have the creative capacity to be working on the same thing for more than x years", says Fernández.
With the arrival of the pandemic, the need for a change in work became more acute. Fernandez had already laid the technical groundwork, he notes, "which is the important thing. The change to working remotely on a game as big as Fable, which has a lot of talking to people, bureaucracy, meetings... there were many factors and I needed a change. It was a great three years and I think Fable is a super, super interesting IP, the game has incredible potential and there is a very good team inside. The best thing Playground has done in the years that I've seen is the people they've gotten for the team, there's a lot of talent. I wish them all the luck in the world and I'm really looking forward to playing it."
That is six years ago and we haven't seen a thing. Well apart from a CGI trailer.
In the meantime we have heard several reports, both internal and external, that development has been difficult.
Let's see if anything is shown at the upcoming showcase. But I will bet that the game won't even be released next year l because it's been in development hell, and MS has messed up again in terms of its internal decision-making and processes.
In the part of the interview one of its devs mentions how long it takes and how much it takes for a team to deliver a big ass open world game normally takes, and in this case they had to assemble the team, create the engine learn all the open world and rpg stuff, there was covid in the middle, etc. and that they aimed to make it with way less resources than are needed.
I assume that he was using slightly exaggerated invented examples to explain his point, but if were close to reality of course the studio wasn't going to deliver the game in these conditions. Specially if as Ralph Fulton, creative director in the original studio who mentioned in the 2019 interview posted above that they didn't want to crunch (and last year left the studio) remains being true.
I would be highly surprised if the game gets released before 2025, and in case they achieve it, doing it in a decent state and keeping the big open world size.
I would be highly surprised if the game gets released before 2025, and in case they achieve it, doing it in a decent state and keeping the big open world size.
From all of that we can surmise that pre-production took a long time, and that the production and dev cycle will likely be close to a decade by the time the game releases.
Playground could have, and still could do with some help on this game. A ton of resources have been thrown at it with the staff hiring and lengthy development period. And the game could still end up a dud - especially given the reboots and difficulties the team has experienced.
Seems like Hulst is doing the rounds Media Molecule being told to cut support on Dreams, Pixel Opus shutdown and now this where presumably playstation have killed the project.
Disappointing all round and obviously my heart goes out to those who have lost their jobs. Hopefully some of the GAAS games playstation are planning take off and it allows a little more risk to be taken. That being said if the project wasn't working out it's better to kill it now rather than waste another 2/3 years releasing something that ultimately doesn't work.
We know they have many key devs who worked in many top performing shooters of the relatively recent years and/or in the fastest selling AAA new IPs and GaaS shooters ever.
Thats not what the term means. A first party game is one made by a studio the console owner itself also owns. So, famously, Donkey Kong Country wasn't a first party Nintendo game because they outsourced development to Rare, even though it used Nintendo IP.
That's absolutely NOT what this means. Games like Bloodborne, Donkey Kong Country, Sackboy: A Big Adventure, Destruction AllStars, Astral Chain, Quantum Break or Lost Odyssey are all 1st party games. No, the platform holder does not have to own the studio. That's a thing some gamers still get wrong today.
Pedigree. Consider that the talent behind the studio is a better indicator of quality. Jade Raymond and Haven is a safer bet than the shambolic state Rare found itself in without the Stamper brothers. Than Obsidian, reduced to Honey I Shrunk the Kids ripoffs. Than Lionhead studios, who were shut down. Than Arkane, whose reputation is in tatters after going from Prey to Redfall.
That's absolutely NOT what this means. Games like Bloodborne, Donkey Kong Country, Sackboy: A Big Adventure, Destruction AllStars, Astral Chain, Quantum Break or Lost Odyssey are all 1st party games. No, the platform holder does not have to own the studio. That's a thing some gamers still get wrong today.
Destruction Allstars was most of those things (besides being a new studio) and look how that turned out. Callisto Protocol is almost as good as you can get off a new studio doing new IP in the AAA space. New IP is really hard.
From all of that we can surmise that pre-production took a long time, and that the production and dev cycle will likely be close to a decade by the time the game releases.
Playground could have, and still could do with some help on this game. A ton of resources have been thrown at it with the staff hiring and lengthy development period. And the game could still end up a dud - especially given the reboots and difficulties the team has experienced.
Yes, it's normal for this specific case to take a lot of time in preproduction for different reasons:
Have to create a new studio and team making 200 high profile hirings
It's a new IP for them, even if it's an old one that they have to update/reboot
It's a new genre for them, very different, bigger and way more complex than the usual for them
Have to build a new engine for a new generation, that will have a lot of things that
Covid lockdowns and brexit happened in the middle
This kind of game for an already cohesive team and experienced in that genre having the needed engine and tools already needs tons of people and years to be made. So in this case even more. They could try to shorten it making a more linear and shorter experience, but not sure if it would work with Fable. I wouldn't bet on it, makes more sense to aim for a long game.
Regarding getting help, the Forza games already get help like any AAA game. I went to a conference where their guy in charge of outsourcing explained how they did work on it. As I remember around 80% of the their cars and environments are made by external outsourcing teams. This project for sure will also have outsourcing work not made by the lead studio too.
Yes, it's normal for this specific case to take a lot of time in preproduction for different reasons:
Have to create a new studio and team making 200 high profile hirings
It's a new IP for them, even if it's an old one that they have to update/reboot
It's a new genre for them, very different, bigger and way more complex than the usual for them
Have to build a new engine for a new generation, that will have a lot of things that
Covid lockdowns and brexit happened in the middle
This kind of game for an already cohesive team and experienced in that genre having the needed engine and tools already needs tons of people and years to be made. So in this case even more. They could try to shorten it making a more linear and shorter experience, but not sure if it would work with Fable. I wouldn't bet on it, makes more sense to aim for a long game.
Regarding getting help, the Forza games already get help like any AAA game. I went to a conference where their guy in charge of outsourcing explained how they did work on it. As I remember around 80% of the their cars and environments are made by external outsourcing teams. This project for sure will also have outsourcing work not made by the lead studio too.
A decade is not the norm, even now, and even for a new IP.
I already covered this point the other day. I'm not talking about outsourcing, everybody already knows work is outsourced in AAA games. I'm talking about another studio taking the lead, and pulling this game out of the dev hell in which it currently resides.
A decade is not the norm, even now, and even for a new IP.
I already covered this point the other day. I'm not talking about outsourcing, everybody already knows work is outsourced in AAA games. I'm talking about another studio taking the lead, and pulling this game out of the dev hell in which it currently resides.
I didn't say a decade, I estimated 8, maybe 9 years.
Because they had many challenges I listed that make a development longer, being working on a new IP for them only one of them. I mean, if they wouldn't have covid in the middle my estimation it would be around 7-8 years, something pretty common for this kind of projects when they don't have all these challenges.
To change the lead studio in the middle of development is something very, very rare and done only when things go very, very wrong but when the project can be saved and they have other studio who can clearly make a better job.
Playground is very talented, and they hired a ton of very talented and experienced people to run this project/studio. Obviously everything can happen and can go wrong, but I'm confident they will be able to ship a quality game if people is patient and they are given the resources and time needed for this kind of project.
I highly doubt they'd move the studio lead to other studio, being the main reasons that they are the only ones using/knowing how to use this engine and the lack of a better candidate studio.
That's absolutely NOT what this means. Games like Bloodborne, Donkey Kong Country, Sackboy: A Big Adventure, Destruction AllStars, Astral Chain, Quantum Break or Lost Odyssey are all 1st party games. No, the platform holder does not have to own the studio. That's a thing some gamers still get wrong today.
Yes, first party means that the platform holder publishes the game. Part of the first party games are the second party games, which are the ones developed by thir party studios not owned by the platform holder.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
