Playstation backed studio Deviation games hit with layoffs

[Hezekiah]

I didn't say a decade, I estimated 8, maybe 9 years.

Because they had many challenges I listed that make a development longer, being working on a new IP for them only one of them. I mean, if they wouldn't have covid in the middle my estimation it would be around 7-8 years, something pretty common for this kind of projects when they don't have all these challenges.


To change the lead studio in the middle of development is something very, very rare and done only when things go very, very wrong but when the project can be saved and they have other studio who can clearly make a better job.

Playground is very talented, and they hired a ton of very talented and experienced people to run this project/studio. Obviously everything can happen and can go wrong, but I'm confident they will be able to ship a quality game if people is patient and they are given the resources and time needed for this kind of project.

I highly doubt they'd move the studio lead to other studio, being the main reasons that they are the only ones using/knowing how to use this engine and the lack of a better candidate studio.

I didnt say you said a decade, I'm saying a decade. It's not coming out in 2024, and I would be surprised if it misses 2025 either.

Plenty has already gone wrong by all accounts, which is why the game is in dev hell. Your confidence is based on some hires, and their history of racing games.

MS probably won't bring in another studio but they should - it might actually help ship a good game in an acceptable timeframe. Right now they're staring at another Halo Infinite.

 

[Yurinka]

I didnt say you said a decade, I'm saying a decade. It's not coming out in 2024, and I would be surprised if it misses 2025 either.

If they started in 2017, then a decade would be 2027. I think late 2025/2026 is the most likely. I think 2024 would mean a buggy game way shorter than the big open world they are supposed to be making. I don't think they'll go until 2027, but who knows, they could.

I say that assuming that like any big AAA game they'll have thousands of workers in several support/outsourcing studios.

Your confidence is based on some hires, and their history of racing games.

My confidence comes from the good work Playground did, for many great hirings they did, words of people who worked there and the knowledge of AAA development. And well, I assume that Phil won't want to have another Redfall, so I assume they'll bring them all the time and help they may need.

 

[Hezekiah]

If they started in 2017, then a decade would be 2027. I think late 2025/2026 is the most likely. I think 2024 would mean a buggy game way shorter than the big open world they are supposed to be making. I don't think they'll go until 2027, but who knows, they could.

I say that assuming that like any big AAA game they'll have thousands of workers in several support/outsourcing studios.


My confidence comes from the good work Playground did, for many great hirings they did, words of people who worked there and the knowledge of AAA development. And well, I assume that Phil won't want to have another Redfall, so I assume they'll bring them all the time and help they may need.

Nope, towards the end of 2026 would be a decade if they began early 2017.

It's an embarrassingly long production and development period which will also be incredibly expensive. It heaps more pressure on them to release a great game which is why proper help should be brought in.

Right now the most likely scenario is a Halo Infinite type release - a massively hyped game which is playable and decent in parts, but comes nowhere near most people's expectations and is forgotten about within just a few months.

 

[Yurinka]

Nope, towards the end of 2026 would be a decade if they began early 2027.

It's an embarrassingly long production and development period which will also be incredibly expensive. It heaps more pressure on them to release a great game which is why proper help should be brought in.

Right now the most likely scenario is a Halo Infinite type release - a massively hyped game which is playable and decent in parts, but comes nowhere near most people's expectations and is forgotten about within just a few months.

2017 + 10 = 2027
My bet is at least 8 years (2 years of preproduction + 6 years of production), so at least 2025 release.

 

[anonpuffs]

2017 + 10 = 2027
My bet is at least 8 years (2 years of preproduction + 6 years of production), so at least 2025 release.

That doesn't count internal reboots or an engine change

 

[Yurinka]

That doesn't count internal reboots or an engine change

True, it's an optimistic estimate. Doesn't consider also a big covid related impact. 2025 being pretty optimistic, being more realistic would be more.

 

[Hezekiah]

2017 + 10 = 2027
My bet is at least 8 years (2 years of preproduction + 6 years of production), so at least 2025 release.

Start of 2017 to the end of 2026 is a ten year cycle. Come on, this isn't difficult.

My guess is that it comes out in 2026 and doesn't meet the expectations of fans of the franchise because of the reasons I stated previously.

 

[Gediminas]

Can you move on guys?

 

[Sleepy Brown]

You are incorrect. I don't know any other way to say it.

That's the thing. You are the one who's incorrect. The games I listed are all 1st party games. 1st party games not made by 1st party studios. Still 1st party games. Sometimes fans call them "2nd party games". But in reality, it's 1st or 3rd party. And these games I mentioned are 1st party. Even Sony, MS and Nintendo will tell you this.

Yes, first party means that the platform holder publishes the game. Part of the first party games are the second party games, which are the ones developed by third party studios not owned by the platform holder.

Yeah, but that's the thing. 2nd party games are 1st party games. Fans are using the definition "2nd party game" so they don't have to say the whole "1st party game made by a 3rd party studio" sentence. Sure, it's shorter. But it doesn't change the fact that it's a 1st party game. "2nd party" is a made up term.

 

[Rivet]

Whatever, it wasn't a Sony studio. And even if it was, cancelling a few projets is the way it works when you only want superior quality. Some games will be good enough to release, others will get cancelled.

That's why Sony means quality as a publisher, and Xbox doesn't. They know when a game is worth it and when it's not. That's also why they don't release 60-70 rated games like Redfail or most of the GamePass trash catalog.

 

[KiryuRealty]

Whatever, it wasn't a Sony studio. And even if it was, cancelling a few projets is the way it works when you only want superior quality. Some games will be good enough to release, others will get cancelled.

That's why Sony means quality as a publisher, and Xbox doesn't. They know when a game is worth it and when it's not. That's also why they don't release 60-70 rated games like Redfail or most of the GamePass trash catalog.

Steve Jobs once said that the real secret to quality was saying “no” when things weren’t perfect.

He also said it took a hundred “no”s to get to a “yes”, but that was how you get quality.

 

[Yurinka]

Yeah, but that's the thing. 2nd party games are 1st party games. Fans are using the definition "2nd party game" so they don't have to say the whole "1st party game made by a 3rd party studio" sentence. Sure, it's shorter. But it doesn't change the fact that it's a 1st party game. "2nd party" is a made up term.

You and this CM are wrong. Both the big third party publishers and the console makers -even if not frequently- also use the 2nd party term both formally and informally, even if publicly it's used only "first party" when possible to don't make look these parters as second class citizens. Including Sony.

 

[Nhomnhom]

Whatever, it wasn't a Sony studio. And even if it was, cancelling a few projets is the way it works when you only want superior quality. Some games will be good enough to release, others will get cancelled.

That's why Sony means quality as a publisher, and Xbox doesn't. They know when a game is worth it and when it's not. That's also why they don't release 60-70 rated games like Redfail or most of the GamePass trash catalog.

There is an old Cerny talk online where he goes on about how important it is to be able to make the call to cancel games that did not have a good start. Refusing to make that call is how games get stuck in development hell or release like Redfall.

 

[Sleepy Brown]

Whatever, it wasn't a Sony studio. And even if it was, cancelling a few projets is the way it works when you only want superior quality. Some games will be good enough to release, others will get cancelled.

Oh I agree with this. Games like Destruction AllStars, Redfall or Dreams shouldn't even exist.

You and this CM are wrong. Both the big third party publishers and the console makers -even if not frequently- also use the 2nd party term both formally and informally, even if publicly it's used only "first party" when possible to don't make look these parters as second class citizens. Including Sony.

Nope. Not wrong.
Yes, even Sony uses the word "2nd party" sometimes. Even in their job listings. To hint at "1st party projects made by 3rd party studios". Literally XDev stuff. But in the end, it's just "1st party". Destruction AllStars, Bloodborne or Sackboy: A Big Adventure are Sony 1st party games, made by 3rd party studios.
It was always all about 1st or 3rd party.

 

[Gediminas]

Oh I agree with this. Games like Destruction AllStars, Redfall or Dreams shouldn't even exist.

Nope. Not wrong.
Yes, even Sony uses the word "2nd party" sometimes. Even in their job listings. To hint at "1st party projects made by 3rd party studios". Literally XDev stuff. But in the end, it's just "1st party". Destruction AllStars, Bloodborne or Sackboy: A Big Adventure are Sony 1st party games, made by 3rd party studios.
It was always all about 1st or 3rd party.

WTF?
even the name says it all, 1st party, it means, own developers.

Sackboy wasn't made by their own developers, but it was used Sony's Ip, so it was 2nd party.

3 party, is basically Street Fighter 5.

 

[Yurinka]

Nope. Not wrong.
Yes, even Sony uses the word "2nd party" sometimes. Even in their job listings. To hint at "1st party projects made by 3rd party studios". Literally XDev stuff. But in the end, it's just "1st party". Destruction AllStars, Bloodborne or Sackboy: A Big Adventure are Sony 1st party games, made by 3rd party studios.
It was always all about 1st or 3rd party.

Yes, you and her are wrong because as you admit they are commonly used in the industry since decades ago, not only by fans.

Yes, "2nd party" is a made up word. Just like "1st party" or "3rd party" and many other words we use in the industry because this industry started a few decades ago and changes a lot so there are many new words that appear like this one.

And yes, 2nd party are also 1st party games. 2nd party are the 1st party games developed by 3rd party studios. 3rd party studios are those not owned by the platform holder, and 1st party games are those published by the platform holder.

Even if there are a few exceptions like in rare cases of a platform holder publishing a certain 3rd party game only on certain country, or a 3rd party publishing a 1st party game only in a certain country, something more common in the past than now.

 

[KiryuRealty]

Yes, you and her are wrong because as you admit they are commonly used in the industry since decades ago, not only by fans.

Yes, "2nd party" is a made up word. Just like "1st party" or "3rd party" and many other words we use in the industry because this industry started a few decades ago and changes a lot so there are many new words that appear like this one.

And yes, 2nd party are also 1st party games. 2nd party are the 1st party games developed by 3rd party studios. 3rd party studios are those not owned by the platform holder, and 1st party games are those published by the platform holder.

Even if there are a few exceptions like in rare cases of a platform holder publishing a certain 3rd party game only on certain country, or a 3rd party publishing a 1st party game only in a certain country, something more common in the past than now.

No, 2nd party was made up by Nintendo.

First party means published by a platform holder, 3rd party means published by someone other than a platform holder.

2nd party was a bullshit term Nintendo used to try to deflect criticism over the lack of software coming out for N64. They said their relationship with key outside publishers was “too close to call it 3rd party, they’re 2nd party to us”.

It’s a moron term that should be burned out of the gaming lexicon.

 

[Muddasar]

No, 2nd party was made up by Nintendo.

First party means published by a platform holder, 3rd party means published by someone other than a platform holder.

2nd party was a bullshit term Nintendo used to try to deflect criticism over the lack of software coming out for N64. They said their relationship with key outside publishers was “too close to call it 3rd party, they’d e 2nd party to us”.

It’s a moron term that should be burned out of the gaming lexicon.

Always thought 2nd party were 3rd party studios working under contract for a publisher.

Like Bungie with Activision or Rare with Nintendo.

 

[Gediminas]

Always thought 2nd party were 3rd party studios working under contract for a publisher.

Like Bungie with Activision or Rare with Nintendo.

Yes, that's how it works, like Sumo did Sackboy.

 

[Muddasar]

Yes, that's how it works, like Sumo did Sackboy.

So it’s a real term.

Not made up.